 
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs: | Their country is smaller Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US.
Need I say more? | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: Their country is smaller Yes, you do need to say more. Since that would indicate we'd at least see serious residential fiber deployments in compressed urban areas like New York City if congestion was the only obstacle. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Minister  :urban areas like New York City if congestion was the only obstacle. It might be more than congestion, it might be that the infrastructure under the streets is hard to access.
Think about it, working under the streets on a massive scale in New York? Just to deliver faster bandwidth to people who already don't know how to utilize it?
Doesn't sound economically sound to me.
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Their country is smaller Uh, do you realize that the depth under NY is almost equal to its height? There is NO problem with working under NY. Besides, feeds would likely be topside.
If anything, it's the mentality of people here. Japan has the understanding that IP communication (and truly converged communication) is the way of the future. These people use video communication as part of life, not a novelty of it.
We're still trying to get over the VoIP hurdle.
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] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
| | | | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Their country is smaller If anything, it's the mentality of people here. Japan has the understanding that IP communication (and truly converged communication) is the way of the future. These people use video communication as part of life, not a novelty of it. I agree that the mentality of Japan is much different. If NYC was its own country, it would operate much differently as well. As a physically small island nation with a high population density, life itself is much different, and society be run efficient to be productive. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | have you seen a japanese urban street? you think it is easy there? they can't even run roadworks unless they are done at 1am and all plated over by 6am. | |
| | | | | | | | | TBC1
join:2002-05-31
Ft Mitchell, KY
| Re: Their country is smaller said by jeffster1970 : Great Britain is similar in area of that of Japan, and a population that is not significantly smaller, yet they are still plugging along at 512kbs. GB's population is more than significantly smaller, like well less than half of that of Japan (60 million in GB to 127 million in Japan). | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Actually they have methods to make installing fiber much easier. No need to dig up roads etc. You would also think that the supposed most technologically advanced nation on the planet. Would at least be able to compete with other nations in this regard.
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants.
You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years.
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| | | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX | Re: Their country is smaller This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. | |
| | | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
| said by maartena : said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants. You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years. This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: Their country is smaller said by soothsayer15 : said by maartena : said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants. You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years. This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. actually it seems that they're coming from logic. Out of 300 million people, 30 million of which live in New York City or Los Angeles. Another 30+ million live in cities like Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Atlanta, etc...
I'd say that his 30% statistic could hold some water.
As far as his FTTH claim, I'd be willing to believe that too. Out of all of the information that I've looked at, i'd actually say it's probably even less than 1% though. Only a very small number of select expensive neighborhoods around the nation have direct access to Fiber internet connectivity. I wouldn't think that 3 million people have Fiber connectivity.
On to the Euro cities - I have no clue. I know that Sweden provides 10mbps and 100mbps connectivity for around the same prices we pay here for cable. Just look at the swedish ISPs and you'll see for yourself. As far as Germany - i'm not sure. Although I hear that Former East Germany has massive Fiber buildout, I haven't heard anything in regards to the rest of it.
Random Statistics pulled from thin air? I don't think so. A simple google search would back up most of those claims. | |
| | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| The important number The important number is 47B/30M = $1567 per home
When you consider most people are not going to be willing to pay more than $100/month for combined Internet/phone/TV and after the cost of sales, tech support, billing, Internet backbone cost, TV programming cost (ESPN etc.) they maybe would end up with $25 profit per home per month.
1567/ 25 = 5.22 year pay back.
Most American companies are not going to go for a 5+ year pay back on investment. They would rather wait a few years until the cost per home has gone down in half. | |
| | | | | | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Re: The important number said by dk1983 :Your formula is wrong there Automate because if that was the case that company would get there ROI in one month. If it has 30 Mill. subscribers. Huh? how do you come up with that? | |
| | | | 
DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| said by Automate :The important number is 47B/30M = $1567 per home When you consider most people are not going to be willing to pay more than $100/month for combined Internet/phone/TV and after the cost of sales, tech support, billing, Internet backbone cost, TV programming cost (ESPN etc.) they maybe would end up with $25 profit per home per month. 1567/ 25 = 5.22 year pay back. Most American companies are not going to go for a 5+ year pay back on investment. They would rather wait a few years until the cost per home has gone down in half. Actually I believe that is 1567.00 per person. Probably more like 4000.00 per home. Pay back may come in ten years if recurring costs are not too high.
Hey I am all for FTTH for the entire LA basin, if they want to pay for it themselves with their own tax dollars and none of mine.
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jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: | Re: The important number Actually, Japan has a population of 127,000,000 and at a cost of 48 billion US, it works out to roughly $377 per person. That's not a lot. | |
| | | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA | Re: The important number Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. | |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: The important number said by Automate :Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. Wow that does make a big difference we have like 0 people with fiber.
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| | | | | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
1 edit | Re: The important number Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick.  | |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: The important number said by Automate :Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick. Tell that to Enron please.
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| | 
lyls
@tele.dk
 from:
woody7
| i still dont get why so many of you americans on here always defend the companies by saying "oh the us is so much better" dont you guys want fiber? let the companies know you want it...... personally id almost kill for fiber | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by lyls:
i still dont get why so many of you americans on here always defend the companies by saying "oh the us is so much better" dont you guys want fiber? let the companies know you want it...... personally id almost kill for fiber
Do you have fiber? I'd doubt it, especially since you're from a danish ADSL provider.
I'd hardly kill for fiber.
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| | | | | Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? Not to mention Japanese citizens are a lot more interested in new technologies than the average American. BBR folks need to face it, not everyone in the United States is soooo concerned about broadband. If it comes along and its cheap (and not necessarily fast), sure why not but its not a must have item. Oh and population density does matter a lot when deploying new technologies, but it isn't the only concern. To answer, then why not in New York and Los Angeles. Well folks think about the socio-economic situations in those densly-populated areas.
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Anon00 :Not to mention Japanese citizens are a lot more interested in new technologies than the average American. BBR folks need to face it, not everyone in the United States is soooo concerned about broadband. If it comes along and its cheap (and not necessarily fast), sure why not but its not a must have item. Oh and population density does matter a lot when deploying new technologies, but it isn't the only concern. To answer, then why not in New York and Los Angeles. Well folks think about the socio-economic situations in those densely-populated areas. That's what I'm trying to say.
What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth.
Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat about what throughput means in terms of the "experience". To them, page load times are the only benchmark of real-world speed. With that in mind, most current sites don't even begin to saturate Joe's pipe. DNS servers are the weak link here, followed by the webserver itself.
I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth.
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bamboox
join:2000-12-15
Renton, WA
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. | |
| | | | | Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| Re: Their country is smaller said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Seeing as his response was a response to me I'd like to answer this. Americans just don't really care. They don't know enough to need all that bandwidth because they don't care to find out. It's not about being stupid its about what matters and there are bigger issues in the world (family, life, getting laid, etc) to worry about how fat your pipe is. I mean really, wtf does an average person need a 20-100Mb pipe for. I mean, personally I'd love that. I have wet dreams about it. But our culture isn't as techno-fad crazy as the Japanese (and Korean) cultures (not saying either one is good or bad). I'd say our boom is coming in the next 4-6 years. What will really help this along, besides friendlier local regulations, is something that makes Americans either really want Broadband or making it so cheap that its like paying for phone service. I think as services (TV, phone, etc), especially business services, get increasingly digitalized we'll see the cost of broadband solutions go down and interest by consumers go up.
--
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent to remain that way" - Me | |
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Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller couldnt agree more here. id kill for a t1 or t3 right now let alone a fiber connection. id die happy if i had fiber. but am i going to see it any time soon? id have a much better chance getting struck by lightning than getting fiber in the next couple years.
only advice i can say is to hold out another decade or so when (hopefully) the population starts becoming more tech-saavy. then we should see some more demand for faster broadband. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Thank you for sticking words in my mouth, since that's not what I said.
The post I was replying to explained that Americans aren't as interested in seeing even faster speeds delivered to their house at this point, since most either haven't been exposed to broadband, or don't know what to do with the bandwidth they already have. 
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| | | |
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| said by Nerdtalker : What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth. That is why government needs to step in some times and set a direction for the market. It is hardly controversial to say that the competitive countries of the 21st century will be ones with the best communications infrastructure, or certainly have an advantage with the best communications infrastructure. And that means fiber, and fiber everywhere. NTT is still heavily influenced by government policy in Japan, which is heavily driven by export competitiveness. If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. | |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: Their country is smaller said by justin : said by Nerdtalker : What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth. That is why government needs to step in some times and set a direction for the market. It is hardly controversial to say that the competitive countries of the 21st century will be ones with the best communications infrastructure, or certainly have an advantage with the best communications infrastructure. And that means fiber, and fiber everywhere. NTT is still heavily influenced by government policy in Japan, which is heavily driven by export competitiveness. If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. Goverment is going to fix internets you say? Got some wood?
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Their country is smaller right, the government is useless at everything. That is why we have such a huge budget surplus right now, because damn we can't find anything to spend the money on. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by justin :If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. For once, I'd agree. We need to get pushed in the right direction on this one.
Not necessarily by intervening through subsidizing broadband, but by offering tax relief or write-offs/incentives to companies that are actively encouraging the deployment of fiber.
Hopefully, as broadband becomes more popular, people will demand more bandwidth, and thus fiber.
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| | | | 
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Perhaps they have different values...perhaps they just don't care...not because they are 'ignorant', as some here would like everyone to believe, but because they have different interests, and their whole life doesn't revolve around the Internet.
The two cultures are vastly different.
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A is A | |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? No please don't say ANYTHING else.
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| | mavizao
join:2004-08-21
Brazil
| No wonder why your nickname is NerdTalker.
Read the article again and let's see:
47.000.000.000
X
___800.000.000
I see US investments are losing by a couple digits.
The "oh, they are smaller" excuse sounds just retarded when you see that they are investing just 58.75 (should i say 59?) times more money for it.
I think you guys are screwed mainly because of your dumb regulations in which benefits the smaller ISP's (why invest a LOT of money when you can wait the big player come, use a hell lot of their money and then you rent their fiber for almost nothing?)
But i can tell you are far ahead of us at Sao Paulo (Brazil), which is top 10 biggest of the world (or top 5)...
We have only one real broadband company which rules even worse than your 2 or 3 big guys | |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea | What about more wood? | |
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? The problem with that argument is that Japan's telco industry in ONE company, NTT. In the US, with several players, the ability to wire the US with fiber is diffused amongst the different telecom players.
Size really isn't the problem as much as it is the marketability of fiber. The fact is that the average America is just that, average... Average income, average intelligence, average interest in technology, etc.
The problem is that you have to convince a person that confuses memory with hard disk space to get something called "fiber optic broadband." Until you can get most people interested in that, the economics of the situation don't bode well for the more technically inclined since the majority of the population really doesn't care how many bits they can get down a pipe... They don't download ISOs or heavy content. They just want it to work.
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Statistics never lie... But liars use statistics.
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | 
Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY | I am seriously considering learning Japanese/Korean and moving to either Japan or South Korea in the future.
America is behind in everything involving technology. | |
| |
thaths darn right
@optonline.net
| Passed, not served... Japan is different, you can string fiber under a small city and that would be enough for all of Japan, but they're not exporting anything good lately, They're living off the wealth of the Go-GO 1980's... as is much of US, with the exception of those who are in the ENERGY business | |
| | |
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: Their country is smaller said by thaths darn right:
but they're not exporting anything good lately, They're living off the wealth of the Go-GO 1980's..
You're so wrong. They are next door to china. They export construction, technology and know-how into that furnace by the billion-load. And last time I looked, almost all consumer electronics were japanese or korean except for, what, the ipod? | |
| | 
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Let's rephrase that. How about:
Japan has a higher qualified Engineering workforce.
Japan (as other European countries) has a more sociological implementation of technology. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that getting first posts mean that you sometime need to be quick on the writing, and then edit as you wish...
I was in NL, where in the city of Eindhoven, you can get a minimum of 10/10Mbps and if you choose to participate in a study or "beta", you get Ethernet speeds.
The problem with the US, is its 20th century like thinking, where mega-corp mamas think they can retain control over all aspects of the information technology, or call it otherwise, anything-internet-bounded.
That won't work, even though owning the actual fiber, or infrastructure is key as of now. Look up to other venues such as wireless, OFDM, WIMAX, UWB and such, and you shall see that a gazillion of options are available or soon to be implemented.
To get back to your initial post, Japan is much smaller than the US in sheer size, however, it's a microcosm; Japan is much bigger than the US, on a square-mile rate. The concentration makes it more able to think/act quickly. So yes, the Asian peninsula, along with other smaller countries, will keep kicking the US in the behind on this kind of topic.
It's Friday night, I need a drink!
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| |
GawdZillaComing
@optonline.net | AHHHHH!!!!
And he shoots fiber out of his mouth!!
The new action figure for 249 yen, a real bargain..
Gawdziwra!!! | |
| 
IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
|  Why the apathy?
The broadband market in the US is truely hopeless.... Nobody seems to be doing much of any capital investment here. For heaven's sake, most nodes for Cable Modems or Remote DSLAMS over here have at most a DS3 running to them... sigh... Hopeless.
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Holy Cable Modem Batman! | |
| |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: Why the apathy? The question is...who is going to pay for it?
I don't mean the tiny little sum that you are willing to pay per month. I mean the real costs associated with the infrastructure improvements required to provide the service.
'Investment' implies 'returns'...the question is 'are there any returns at a reasonable, responsible rate?'
Let's put it another way...you pay for the installation of a fiber from your house to the CO, and then the telco will reimburse you $50 a month...
How does that sound?
I thought so.
The reality is that a ROI analysis is performed on every installation, certainly on major infrastructure improvement jobs. If the numbers don't work (and believe me, they make generous, reasonable estimates on penetration and connection) then it is not going to happen.
If you want fiber, you can have it. There is no rule or tariff that says that you can't. All you have to do is pay for it.
I have a friend that wanted fiber. He paid for it. It cost $40,000 for 18 miles, and it was only that cheap because they were doing some other work that they piggy-backed his job on to.
If you want to play, you gotta pay.
I know this isn't the answer you are looking for...
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| 
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Maybe I should move over there. nihongowo chotto hanashimasu...I don't think my wife would see things my way unfortunately.:( She'll probably give me some lousy excuse about living far away from family. | |
| 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | chill out all of the moaning, groaning, complaining, and blaming are not going to get anyone a fiber connection at 500 gillion ghz. It is interesting to note what is going on in Japan but until we get an FCC that does things other then encouraging technology like BPL, which Japan tried and banned 5 years ago, we will see nothing like Japan.
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See 8 replies to this post | |
Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
1 edit | We are always behind japan.. Usually we are an average of 5 years behind japan in everything.
edit: on another note they better hurry up all these technologies, im not going to be alive forever  | |
| | electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON
| Re: We are always behind japan.. and europe for that matter.
when are you guys going to get over "we are so much bigger" crap.
Canada is waaay bigger then the US geographically and we manage to have a good chunk of our rural and cities wired up with at least DSL. Not to mention we pay a lot less for 3MB+ services then you do. | |
| | 
Gwailo
join:2000-07-16
Richardson, TX
clubs:
| Think Outside the Box It's not size, it's $$ and ROI.
$47 billion / 127,333,002 people = $369.11 for every man, woman and child in the country.
Payback time ... don't ask me, I'm not an accountant but let's say 10 years. That's $36.91 / year or $3.08 / month.
I think the citizens of Arlington, Texas just voted themselves more $ / month than that to help poor old Jerry Jones build the Dallas Cowboys a new football stadium. | |
| | |
jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: | Re: Think Outside the Box Still doesn't make sense that Canada should have better internet then the US...not only is it a lot cheaper, we have way better connections. | |
| | | Sarge_0321
join:2002-06-27
San Diego, CA
| For sure. It's more important to invest in Halliburton and offshore oil ventures than broadband solutions for the continental U.S.A. Imagine that! With more people using the internet, less need to drive. Less oil consumption. But that's not how the bought and paid for politicians think. | |
| jcolbert
join:2000-09-03
Springville, IA
| That had me thinking if Colon Blow Cereal Colon Blow
Man.....Phil Hartman
[ fade in on a man at a table, eating oat bran cereal from a bowl ]
Announcer: Hold it! Is that what you’re having for breakfast?
Man: Sure, haven't you heard? Fiber is really good for you.
Announcer: Well, there's fiber, and then there's high fiber. Try this.
[ offstage hands replace cereal box with Colon Blow cereal box ]
Man: Hmm.. Colon Blow. Sounds delicious. But is it really higher in fiber than my oat bran cereal?
Announcer: Take a guess: How many bowls of your oat bran cereal would it take to equal the fiber content of one bowl of Colon Blow?
Man: Two?
Announcer: Guess again.
Man: Three?
Announcer: A little higher.
Man: Four?
Announcer: Keep trying.
Man: Five?
Announcer: No, you'll have to do better than that.
Man: Seven?
Announcer: Guess again.
Man: Eight?
Announcer: We'll give you one more guess.
Man: Nine.
Announcer: Not even close. [ table starts shaking ] It would take over 30,000 bowls. [ a giant pyramid of cereal bowls shoots up from under the man, who yells in terror as it rises ] To eat that much oat bran, you'd have to eat ten bowls a day, every day for eight and a half years.
Man: [ after the pyramid settles; shouts from afar ] Wow! I think I get the picture! Colon Blow must be the highest fiber cereal on the market!
Announcer: Not any more, now that there's new Super Colon Blow.
Man: Super Colon Blow?
[ pyramid rises even higher with the man screaming ]
Announcer: It would take over two and a half million bowls of your oat bran cereal to equal the fiber content of one bowl of Super Colon Blow.
[ pyramid settles ]
Man: [ overwhelmed ]I'm convinced! [ looks down the pyramid in panic ]
[ cut to close-up of bowl with Colon Blow and Super Colon Blow boxes ]
Jingle: "Colon Blow and you-u-u-u in the morning"
Announcer: Colon Blow and new Super Colon Blow.
Voiceover: Warning: may cause abdominal distention. Consult a physician.
[ fade to black ] | |
| |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | Re: That had me thinking if Colon Blow Cereal See...the same thing could happen if you have too much bandwidth to your house...
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A is A | |
| | | | toddhigg
join:2002-11-09
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| said by jcolbert :Jingle: "Colon Blow and you-u-u-u in the morning" ROTFLMAO!
I loved that skit. | |
| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Tora Tora Tora!! Damn good movie... Damn funny captions. | |
| hdwe1156
join:2004-10-09
Plymouth, MI
| My Opinion I agree on many things
1) Japan is a smaller nation geographical making fiber way cheaper to run in japan.
2) Second many companies don't want to put in investment in fiber while most American People never heard of it or even utilize it.
3) Japan is a couple years ahead in years in technology than Americans due to the fact that many people in Japan have more education. For example most America is not as "Into education and Knowledge country". Most Americans are really behind in education which is a very declining problem. Take viruses for example most of them spread because people are stupid enough to open attachments and and run viruses on their computers. I believe fiber roll-out would be better if people requested it more and people seems like they have the education to utilize it. | |
| |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Re: My Opinion said by hdwe1156 :I agree on many things 3) Japan is a couple years ahead in years in technology than Americans(...) Try 6 to 9 years, as per the last Fiber convention in New-Orleans, LA I attended, October of 2003.
In that conv., it was said the US would slip from 6th, to 9th rank in 2006, and it indeed took less than a year for the US to achieve this grim result...
Go figure...
--
UWB over Wire is the future!
3Plink.com |Voice|Video|Data| | |
| markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Its not just about net access with fiber Fiber has more advantages than disadvantages. The telcos in the US WANT a all fiber network, but when they have such a huge investment in copper its not a overnight thing to change.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one reason Japan can do this (besides being smaller) is because the change from copper to fiber IS a lot less and technical, unlike the US.
Think about it, we have telephone lines that run ALL the way across the US, one area out west has the same line for almost 5 states straight! Replace that with fiber? yah that's gonna take a lot of time.  | |
| | 
X_Digit
Binary Enhanced
Premium
join:2003-06-12
Mansfield, TX
| Re: Its not just about net access with fiber Um, like MANY people... my local cable company provides my broadband. Right now, I'm capped at 3Mbps/256Kbps. This isn't even CLOSE to the maximum potential of cable; therefore, it's not just a matter of rolling out fiber.
Remember, this isn't "The United States of America" any longer... it's now "The United States of American, Inc." This nation is run by business for business (with a phuck "The People" attitude). As long as we're forking over $40 - $50 per month for the crap they give us now (and they make us feel that we should be thankful for the speed we have even now), then there's NO WAY we're getting the latest in broadband technologies ANYWHERE! | |
| |
X_Digit
Binary Enhanced
Premium
join:2003-06-12
Mansfield, TX
1 edit | Um, like MANY people... my local cable company provides my broadband. Right now, I'm capped at 3Mbps/256Kbps. This isn't even CLOSE to the maximum potential of cable; therefore, it's not just a matter of rolling out fiber.
Remember, this isn't "The United States of America" any longer... it's now "The United States of America, Inc." This nation is run by businesses for businesses (with a f#@k "The People" attitude). As long as we're forking over $40 - $50 per month for the crap they give us now (and they make us feel that we should be thankful for the speed we have even now), then there's NO WAY we're getting the latest in broadband technologies ANYWHERE! | |
| | | 
P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Mineola, NY
clubs:
| Re: Its not just about net access with fiber god just get out of iraq and we would have 250b to play with over the next year!! i would rather broadband it instead of iraq....
then again fiber might be 20th on the list for the 250b
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www.stopfcc.comI do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob. | |
| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Its not just about net access with fiber said by P Ness :then again fiber might be 20th on the list for the 250b Indeed that would be the case... Paying down the deficit might be a better place to start.
--
Statistics never lie... But liars use statistics.
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| | | Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
| Bandwidth is key... Its hard to start thinking about fiber... since, there is probably not even close to enough routing power in the US to provide everyone 100 mbps lines.
I mean, think about it. our networks are already congested from time to time. adding fiber will not resolve this congestion since most latency comes from the router anyways.
and another point.
So the Japanese have fiber... but no one has said anything about the bandwidth of their routers, which will be the true limiting factor, always.
For all i know they could be plugging 20 x 100 mbps lines int a router that can only process information at an effective speed of a couple tens of megabytes per second... | |
| |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | Re: Bandwidth is key... Good point.
--
A is A | |
| 
A900MHz Fan
join:2004-07-12
Mitchell, SD
| My fiber is here My fiber is here - well sort of supposedly hooked up by December but I would be happy by spring. Word is 2Mbx2Mb cap to start but if you call the telco (Mitchell Telecom) you can increase bandwidth between point-point links on the fiber network up to 10Mb each way. They are going to offer VoIP/TV/Broadband for just at $100. One cool feature is buy turning to a certain cable channel you can view you calls/bill and pay all with the TV remote. By the way this is at - Mitchell, South Dakota. See all us country boys are really ahead of the game! | |
| | 
AWS
Long Time Gone
join:2000-07-01
Joliet, IL
| Re: My fiber is here I have a couple friends working in Japan. They have 50/10 service and pay $30 per month for it. The way they talk it was the norm rather then the exception. I guess they are lucky to be in an area that has it.
--
If I can't do it today, I'll figure it out by tomorrow. | |
| fullback
join:2002-01-24
japan
1 edit | investment The infrastructure investment is not just for FTTH to access the internet of today, it's preparation for the internet of tomorrow. We already have that nailed with 40Mbsp Adsl @ about US$20 per month and 100Mbps fiber for about $40/mo. It is part of a coordinated upgrade for the future including VOIP, internet, television and other media content. Businesses will obviously have wider pipes also with this upgrade.
I trust that mature readers ignore the ROI and 'the US is too big' misinformation posted in this topic. | |
| |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: investment said by fullback :I trust that mature readers ignore the ROI and 'the US is too big' misinformation posted in this topic. WOW...what could I know about it?
I only work in the industry.
Everything costs money...whether you like it or not. Everything that gets done at this scale is evaluated for ROI, insofar as the companies are responsible to the shareholders of the company. Now, if a private company wants to put it's money up front and take the gamble, more power to them, and more bandwidth to you. You all have my blessing.
Every job I submit gets the numbers run...the number's work, I work. It's just that simple.
As much as I have walked the halls at the telco's, I have yet to see the 'Department of Wishful-Thinking' or the 'Office of It-Would-Be-Nice-To-Have-But-They-Can't-Afford-It-So-Let's-Be-Nice-Guy's-And-Just-Give-It-To -Them-No-Matter-How-Much-It-Costs-Us'...
Haven't seen them doors...
You can have it when you pay for it.
I get tired of hearing a bunch of whiners individuals who are clueless uninformed about how it is in the Real World go on about how 'the Big, Bad, Evil Companies' won't give them fiber. You could start you own small fiber company for a tad under a $100 million.
Why don't you do that?
In the meantime, you can wait until your area gets rebuilt.
It's gonna be awhile.
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A is A | |
| | | fullback
join:2002-01-24
japan
| Re: investment Why are you relying to me? I said nothing that you replied to.
I don't doubt for a minute that you are a U.S. telco industry worker.
Your kneejerk, hotheaded response without reading the content, understanding the presented information, inability to understand that Japan is not America, that commercial account income is not included in the ROI information presented, that voice service income is not included, that the amortization period does not apply to the intended investment purpose and local depreciation schedule, that interest rates are different, that tax credits are different, that stockholder stake and a host of other things are different, speaks volumes about the U.S. telco industry.
You, sir, should consider the irony of your comment about uninformed people. | |
| | | |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
2 edits | Re: investment said by fullback :I trust that mature readers ignore the ROI and 'the US is too big' misinformation posted in this topic. Emphasis added to clarify...
said by fullback :Why are you relying to me? I said nothing that you replied to. Thanks for your comments...
I only ask that other readers refer to the boxed comments that you made in my post...
And you know...try as I might, I don't see the word 'Japan' AT ALL in the content of your your post, and you are tagged on under the post of A 900MHz Fan. Perhaps a bit more attention to detail and proper quoting on your part would help eliminate any 'misunderstandings' in the future.
And then there are posts such as these:
Um, like MANY people... my local cable company provides my broadband. Right now, I'm capped at 3Mbps/256Kbps. This isn't even CLOSE to the maximum potential of cable; therefore, it's not just a matter of rolling out fiber.
Remember, this isn't "The United States of America" any longer... it's now "The United States of America, Inc." This nation is run by businesses for businesses (with a f#@k "The People" attitude). As long as we're forking over $40 - $50 per month for the crap they give us now (and they make us feel that we should be thankful for the speed we have even now), then there's NO WAY we're getting the latest in broadband technologies ANYWHERE! As long as the perception of people is similar to the post above, making these types of remarks, well...!
You are correct in saying that the countries are vastly different. That doesn't stop people here from whining about not having fiber, and it is a disingenuous maneuver on the part of some individuals to pretend that the playing fields are the same. They're not. They fan the flames by saying 'look at what THEY have (or are getting) and you're not!!' when the circumstances are different.
And these forums are FULL of people that say 'all it takes...' when they have NO IDEA of what it takes. All they know is that they 'want' it.
Gimme!
The considerations of ROI do affect the deployment of fiber in the U.S. and, to be sure, it is certainly much easier to deploy fiber, or make any other system-wide changes, when the major telecom provider in Japan is a mere extension of the government, for all intents and purposes.
Finally, I found it curious that in your profile you seem to have less than a high regard for your service provider. Perhaps things are not as rosy as you all would like for us to believe. I could post the screen capture here...if you would like...
Irony considered...and dismissed.
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A is A | |
| | | | | fullback
join:2002-01-24
japan
4 edits | Re: investment - Good catch on the profile. The service provider was one of the first and best in Japan until they were bought out by Exodus - an American firm. Service went downhill within weeks as the U.S. corporate philosophy kicked in and they (barely) stand today as one of the worst in Japan.
- NTT is not a mere extension of the government, for all intents and puposes. The fact that you would say this tells volumes about your global telcom experience and knowledge.
- You are spouting the Bell party line perfectly. The line about how difficult and expensive it is to offer 3rd-world level service, let alone fiber, for heaven's sake. It's a wonder most Americans have a phone line, sewer, water and electricity lines. How in the world did they ever get those?
I've beaten this horse to death over the years here and won't start again. You get the quality of service you deserve based on the regulatory and business culture you are willing to tolerate. You reap what you sow.
As a consumer, I'm satisfied having stable 10Mbps service for less than the cost of one dinner per month in my rural home in the mountains of Japan. You carry on, sir. Milk the American consumer tank dry and resist investing as long as you can.
I believe it was Winston Churchill who said, "America always does the right thing, after all the alternatives have been exhausted." | |
| | | | | |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: investment There is a lot of truth in your post here...
said by fullback :- NTT is not a mere extension of the government, for all intents and puposes. In actuality, it is OWNED by the government...
Japan's government plans to give up its title as majority owner of NTT - the former state-owned monopoly that is the world's largest telecom company - in a stock sale this fall that could generate more than $12 billion in revenue. - Telephony Today If I had done a little more research, I could have pointed that out to you before. I'll settle for pointing it out to you now.
said by fullback :- You are spouting the Bell party line perfectly. If the Bell party line is 'we're in business and we want to get paid for the work we do, and make a profit at it' then yes, I guess I do.
said by fullback :You get the quality of service you deserve based on the regulatory and business culture you are willing to tolerate. You reap what you sow. I know, it great, it's called 'freedom', something the people in your island country will never know. If I want to do it, I can. If not, well, I don't have to. I do not have to serve your wishes, to your advantage, at my expense. You want something from me, come back and talk when it serves my interests.
The people of Japan have been listening to 'someone else' for so long that they are incapable of acting on their own volition. I work with Japanese engineers and have had two Japanese foreign exchange students live at my house, and they are virtually incapable of making independent decisions. It takes a while (and a lot of hard work on my part, poking and prodding them to make decisions) to get them over that, but, believe me, when they have to go back (which they don't WANT to, because they like my big house (something they don't have) and the wide open spaces) they can think for themselves and act on that, and will never be the same.
Ah, freedom...
said by fullback :As a consumer, I'm satisfied having stable 10Mbps service for less than the cost of one dinner per month in my rural home in the mountains of Japan. You carry on, sir. Milk the American consumer tank dry and resist investing as long as you can. As a 'consumer', you STILL do not realize the FULL cost of delivering that service to you. You think that just because YOU don't pay very much directly, that it doesn't cost and you didn't pay. That is not how it works, here, there, or anywhere in the world. It costs, someone pays...just because you don't know about it doesn't mean that you are not paying for it.
And as far as your comment regarding 'investment', YOU have invested nothing directly, and suckle at the NTT teat. Come back and talk when you are a shareholder.
said by fullback :I believe it was Winston Churchill who said, "America always does the right thing, after all the alternatives have been exhausted." My recollection is that we saved their ass with men, machines, and materials, because they couldn't do it. And, since you brought it up (one cannot invoke Winston Churchill casually), I did notice that the Japanese government is expending only USD$43Bn per year on defense. Want to make a guess on who is footing the bill for the defense of your little island?
Once again, it is the Americans who are paying the price, not you. I think that if you had to cough up the real cost of defending yourself, you'd have a bit less for fast fiber, wouldn't you?
Personally, I think that Japan would make a lovely little resort island for your brethren from the Mainland. At least you will have fiber to share with your new-found friends, I mean, comrades.
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A is A | |
| Kommie
join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT
| NYC Shame Its a shame that a city that is built like a foreign city and has a massive underground space and open space in boroughs like the Bronx and Staten island still docent have FTTH. Don't these companies see they money to be made in NYC ?? If you build it they will come. | |
| | dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio | Re: NYC Shame And if you don't build it, they'll have to pay anyway for the old crap that you've already got installed. | |
| | | TrekfanII
join:2000-10-14
Bronx, NY
| Re: NYC Shame Well as far as deployment is concerned I think out of all the cities in the U.S. New York has the best pathways for deployment.A while back in the building where I live in the Bronx,rats bit through the telco lines at the entry point to the building so the telco had to rebuild all the lines.My building was quite old so they rerouted new lines to every apartment.I'm talking about copper lines but the funny thing is that the boxes they installed in all the apartments have spaces for new tech.That's right the boxes in every apartment are fiber ready!Not only that,but if you look at they way New York is laid out,I think it would be easy for Our telco to deploy fiber lines just about everywhere in the city and beyond.To me New York is the best testbed for new tech.My only wish is that I wish is that our telco felt that way.I know fiber is in it's infancy here in the U.S.,but the way to make money for any company here is to take chances.It seems that countries like Japan and Korea and soon China are at the front of this tech but when this and other tech is deployed here it will be the envy of the whole world because it WILL be done right.I only hope I'm not an old person by then!Peace! | |
| | | TrekfanII
join:2000-10-14
Bronx, NY
| Well as far as deployment is concerned i think out of all the cities in the U.S. New York has the best pathways for deployment.A while back in the building where I live in the Bronx,rats bit through the telco lines at the entry point to the building so the telco had to rebuild all the lines.My building was quite old so they rerouted new lines to every apartment.I'm talking about copper lines but the funny thing is that the boxes they installed in all the apartments have spaces for new tech.That's right the boxes in every apartment are fiber ready!Not only that,but if you look at they way New York is laid out,i think it would be easy for Our telco to deploy fiber lines just about everywhere and beyond.To me New York is the best testbed for new tech.My only wish is that I wish our telco felt that way. | |
| 
Anonuser
join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI | Problem THE PROBLEM IS!!!
None of us seem to want to foot the bill.
--
Chris Allessi Global Datacenter | |
|
remmy444
@comcast.net
| Bush thinks we are fast enough Actually the real problem is the government. We just re-elected a president who admits to not reading the paper or watching the news. He freely admits that science isn't important and if we needed it, God would have given it to us. Look at his stance on stem cell research. Over the last 4 years, and into the next 4, science and technology growth in the US will not slow to a crawl because of lack of pressure and funding from the government. Bush feels the "INTERNETS" (Bush's term during the debates) is for enjoyment and is fine the way it is. Maybe next election, we can vote in someone who actually knows there is only 1 internet and hopefully will know how to use it. | |
| |
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: Bush thinks we are fast enough said by remmy444:
Maybe next election, we can vote in someone who actually knows there is only 1 internet and hopefully will know how to use it.
Actually, there is more than one...you just don't know about it.
Oooops!...well, now you do.
I've said too much!
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A is A | |
| Sarge_0321
join:2002-06-27
San Diego, CA
| Typical USA As some have lightly touched on it. It's all about who's going to profit from it. And since they can't agree, everything gets held back.
Like the whole RIAA/MPAA mess. It wasn't until a few pioneering companies stepped out and decided on a distribution model. If left to the RIAA, there would be nothing for the consumers to purchase and downloads MP3s. And so with that we have nothing for downloading movies legitimately.
Back to the wiring argument. This is one of those things that would be done more efficiently with a municipal solution. Because do you really think that SBC, Verizon, Cox Communications and RoadRunner would cooperate to share lines?
This is America here. Profit is more important than progress! | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
poron
join:2004-11-13
JAPAN
|  In Japan, about broadband internet service
Firstly, English is a bit difficult for me, therefore if I read on this website many posted messages, so I may miss read that. And If I wish to post message on this website. it will be a bit difficult for me.
I understand that need big cost for TTTH. However, through 2001 years. NTT groups(Japan Telegraph & telephone corporation), they thought about telecommunication who will make it with FTTH technology into all Japan. So they liked digital technology and they thought analog was a lost technology on telecommunication world.
Through that 20 century, in Japan, networkers, they used for analog modem on phone line, or ISDN technology.
In 2001 years. YahooBB was starting ADSL service. And now, NTT and YahooBB share is half and half. So YahooBB won on broadband war in Japan.
Consequently, broadband world in Japan, it is getting very high speed. (ADSL down stream speed is from 47M/s to 40M, 24M, 12M, 8M and 1.5M. And many central cities will be got FTTH, which construction fee is for free)
In my case, I got NTT Flets-more service (Flets is ADSL service name for NTT, and Flets-more down stream speed is 12M/S). and in my case, local line loss is about 13db, therefore my down stream speed is from 6M/s to 8M/s.
Secondly, my broadband cost, it is about 3500 yen (include tax), which is including phone service for voice over IP (VoIP). That net-phone charge is 8.4 yen for 3 minutes in all Japan area (include tax). Net-phone service, we call IP-DENWA (IP phone in English).
note: one dollar is about 106 yen.
* if you know about that NTT service fee, you'll be able to know difference about a bit of money. In this case, I am using discount service by NTT-WEST company. | |
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Japanese 'Fiber Blowout'
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