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story category Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
Or just fighting regulation that would prohibit the option?
02:14PM Thursday May 28 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · Fiber · competition · business · Op/Ed · telco · legislation · content · Hype · net-neutrality · consumers · TimeWarner · Google · Verizon FIOS · Verizon Online DSL
There's not a broadband provider out there who wouldn't instantly begin billing you by the byte if they thought you (the consumer) would sign off on it. Unfortunately for them, Time Warner Cable's recent PR disaster illustrated that consumers aren't sold on low caps and high overages when broadband delivery costs continue to drop. Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read Time Warner Cable's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing has provided Time Warner Cable with very healthy profits.

Meanwhile, Verizon currently doesn't cap or meter their FiOS customers, which acts as a deterrent for competitors in Verizon markets eager to implement metered billing. Pushing metered billing in a FiOS market puts a carrier at a marketing and competitive disadvantage, something Time Warner Cable was well aware of when they hoisted their metered billing trials upon consumers, but only in non-FiOS markets. Even then, Time Warner Cable had to deal with Frontier Communications scrapping their own cap plans to gain a competitive edge.

As we've stated all along, the only way this market sees a shift from flat-rate to metered billing is if the entire industry moves that direction en masse -- leaving customers with no ability to vote with their wallet. Right now, Verizon stands as the finger in the dam. While their GPON fiber to the home architecture currently has the capacity to make such limits unnecessary, Verizon also faces NY-metro area competition from Cablevision, who also doesn't cap and has gone on the record to say metered billing confuses customers.

But things could change, given the temptation of higher revenues. We've spoken to Verizon in the past about the possibility of capped or metered FiOS service, and they've chosen their words carefully -- leaving the option for metered billing open. In conversations this week with the Washington Post, Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg makes it very clear that the company is considering the possibility of some kind of metered usage, and is concerned that Google and consumer advocates could restrict the option through legislation:
Verizon opposes such regulation, saying not all data are equal and that consumers who consume more bandwidth through downloads of big video files, for example, shouldn't be charged the same as lighter Internet users. . . Seidenberg said Google "wants for us not to be able to differentiate but set a standard that would shift all costs of building a network to us and so that we are treated as the lowest denominator common carrier.
Except Google never said Verizon couldn't charge different prices for different tiers of service, and the strange telco belief that other people should be subsidizing their network builds was precisely the kind of stupid logic that started the network neutrality debate back in 2005. Verizon (and their paid mouthpieces) often suggest Google is a bandwidth freeloader, despite Google's huge investment in architecture. Verizon's real fear, of course, is becoming a dumb pipe over which content operators make a killing.

Verizon's lone legitimate concern is that poorly crafted network neutrality legislation might prevent the company from engaging in innovative new billing models. Not all users are against caps. Consumers so far just haven't seen any pricing proposals that offer them a better value over existing flat-rate pricing tiers, and carriers have yet to show hard evidence that such limitations are necessary. It's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that carriers could develop application and consumption tailored plans that deliver value.

It's just incredibly unlikely, given we're talking about incumbents in protected duopolies who are often only innovative when it comes to creating the illusion of value with their plans -- not value itself. It's hard to think that carriers who've spent the last decade milking consumers for every penny (bogus fees, forced bundles, fees for in-person service, fewer free services like newsgroups, more ads) are going to really be focused on consumer savings. The metered billing push is about creating value -- just for investors, not consumers.

You can be absolutely sure that Verizon's tempted by metered billing, and if the telco decides to move on the idea, you can expect a massive public relations push aimed at convincing you per-byte service is in your best interests. Given Verizon's expertise at PR and policy, it won't resemble Time Warner Cable's recent ham-handed attempt, either. If you're interested in the future of metered billing, keep one eye on Verizon.

Related:
  1. Tuesday Evening Links
  2. Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
  3. Bright House Slams Verizon On FiOS Grounding
  4. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
  5. Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones
  6. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  7. Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
  8. AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
Forums » Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ

FUD

They just don't want any more regulations.
ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT


2 edits

Re: FUD

As TVip evolves and eventually does lead to revenue losses for the incumbents , you WILL see verizon jump on board for metered billing. Its only sensible.....

....and if you dont have metered billing , you will have standalone internet services cost about 3 times as much. Again, only sensible.

One way or another they will continue to take in the revenue they need to survive.. maintain..and to improve their networks.

SuperJoker

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA

They better not or else

They better not or else people might get angrier than they are now.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

Time to regulate as a utility.....

Make the carriers prove the necessity of such a billing model before a form of a PUC. Count the cap as a form of money to be regulated too. Have the carriers bring their claims of the necessity of implementing restrictions of use (caps) and overage charges before an impartial body (if you could find one), so these claims could be fiscally and technically scrutinized. Results could be then made public, and we could then decide what would be an adequate profit to maintenance ratio (point of contention, I know).

These companies left on their own will not have consumer interests in mind....they are simply following in the footsteps of the financial institutions that have trashed our economy with the attitude of anything goes with regards to gouging!
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

I don't file trade or anything like that and my bandwidth use just keeps going up. I could see putting a reasonably high cap on a person but they're just trying to make a killing on everyone in the next few years. I know I started using netflix to watch movies on my computer and I doubled or tripled my usage in a month.

Once caps go in they will never go up but people will use more and more bandwidth as new better working products come on line so screw'em.

danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
·MSN
·Mediacom

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

"I don't file trade or anything like that and my bandwidth use just keeps going up. I could see putting a reasonably high cap on a person..."

You just hit on another point there - on a person. Not a household. Some households have just one computer and one user, some have three computers and five users, or six computers and six users. What's a reasonable cap for a single person is an unreasonable cap for a family of four or five, even just doing normal activities.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

So should that family of four or five be charged more money per month than the sole person in a household?

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

said by openbox9 See Profile :

So should that family of four or five be charged more money per month than the sole person in a household?
Well what if the one person household is a person thats downloading 24/7?

These are hypotheticals that in my opinion are irrelevant. The carriers business model of averaging usage has been more than profitable for them. Now their holding a knife to the throat demanding even more profit at a time when they're showing no capitol improvements towards the network infrastructure.
This by no means is the case with all carriers, however the precedent once set, will be reigning practice among all providers.

The worst part about this is the futile attempt to educate our legislators about these issues. I guess Cash is King still holds true!
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

said by S_engineer See Profile :

These are hypotheticals that in my opinion are irrelevant.
Agreed. My response was to danawhitaker See Profile's allusion that households should be treated differently based on number of inhabitants which is not what we want carriers doing IMO.
said by S_engineer See Profile :

demanding even more profit at a time when they're showing no capitol improvements towards the network infrastructure
How can you make that assertion? Carriers are investing in their infrastructure and increasing income can only increase the possibility of additional CAPEX.
said by S_engineer See Profile :

I guess Cash is King still holds true!
Of course it is and to believe otherwise is foolish.

danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
·MSN
·Mediacom

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

I'm not saying that each household should be treated differently - I'm pointing out that for a product that everyone in a household uses, the amount of bandwidth should be large enough to *compensate* for that - for all tiers. It shouldn't be based on the concept that there's only one user in a household using one computer. It needs to be balanced somehow. I get frustrated when I see people talking about average usage and it's just an average per person usage - not an average *household* usage. Companies can't market high speed internet to *families* and then give them usage that's only equivalent to what the average "person" uses in a given week. And if you look at the commercials for a lot of these companies, they're all about how the *family* can use high speed internet. Kids downloading music and playing games and dad browsing his websites. As much as I hate Comcast, they're the only ones who've gotten even remotely close to a reasonable cap of all the ISPs I've seen doing capping in the U.S. and Canada.

Time Warner's 5-40 gig tiers aren't viable for a family. Period. Not even a family of non-piraters. There are too many legitimate and legal uses for bandwidth. They need to reanalyze just what the average amount of bandwidth *households* consume every month rather than the average amount a single person does.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Time to regulate as a utility.....

The ISPs know exactly how much the average household consumes each month. They have no real means of determining usage per individual in a household. There appears to be a semantics issue here. Given your more defined viewpoint, I equate individual to household and vice verse for usage statistics and rhetoric regarding capping/metering.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage

Re: They better not or else

said by SuperJoker See Profile :

They better not or else people might get angrier than they are now.
Most people won't even notice.

nrocme

Re: They better not or else

If most people wouldn't notice, then how would they make any money from the metered billing? They want metered billing to impact the most people. That's the point of it all.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage

Re: They better not or else

Who ever said that the object of metered billing was to make money from overages?

Metered billing is to protect the video revenue. If you discourage people from Hulu an BitTorrent they will have no choice but to eat the fruit from the walled garden.
Sileet

join:2003-02-15
Merced, CA

Re: They better not or else

I would say one of the points is to make money. They probably loose money on customers who download outrageous amounts
margaf77

join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ
·Optimum Online
·RoadRunner Cable

said by Eat Me See Profile :

Who ever said that the object of metered billing was to make money from overages?

Metered billing is to protect the video revenue. If you discourage people from Hulu an BitTorrent they will have no choice but to eat the fruit from the walled garden.
Exactly
Mark F

join:2007-08-01
Fort Wayne, IN

And, those of us around here are plenty angry at Verizon as it is.

No wonder they are against using their Media Manager software with Netflix, to stream video to their DVR for TV viewing. They want to control what internet video content can be downloaded and watched on a FIOS-connected TV. And, who can watch it.

And, if you use other methods to watch internet video, that where caps and metered billing might come in.
Mark F.
Nightwchtr

join:2001-09-10
Falls Church, VA
If they do I will definately cancel my service, screw that. As much as they have been ripping consumers off that would be the last straw for me. Will just get an HD antenna and watch free tv or watch HULU which is currently free.

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
·Verizon FIOS

Of course they'll cap...

I've never once used Verizon's video on demand (VOD) services for the simply fact that I can get it cheaper online (via Netflix usually). Caps would limit what I could do with my Internet connection therefore forcing me to either use their services or use another alternative.
dlewis23

join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL

No problems with caps when...

I have no problem with bandwidth caps when they are in reason and if they allow you to pay a little bit more for a much larger cap.

If verizon came out and said on our 20 Mbps service we are not going to complain if you say use a terabyte a month, but if your using 2, 3, and 4 TB in a month every month like some people do we are going to charge you more or limit your service.

I have no problem with that and I would think most people won't have a problem with that.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: No problems with caps when...

Yeah like, $40 for a 10/3 with a 1TB cap and like $50 for a 10/3 with a 2TB cap would be more reasonable IMHO. $56 for 10/3 3TB ect.
viceroykarl

join:2009-05-28
Quakertown, PA

Re: No problems with caps when...

I'm not sure where your getting the speed provisions for your idea.
It would seem more fitting to adopt this kinda thing to their current tiers rather than just making it all 10/3
They should just do something like comcast and just have 2TB monthly caps on all their tiers if they have to.
I would rather they didn't but if people keep cranking out over 2TB usage in a month on residential fios they may have to... that or boot those people.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Re: No problems with caps when...

"I'm not sure where your getting the speed provisions for your idea."

The first # to pop in to my head. it would work the same if it was like $60 for 20/5 with a 1TB cap, $70 for 20/5 w/ 2TB ect.

"They should just do something like comcast and just have 2TB monthly caps on all their tiers if they have to"

That would work well too.

phill384

@verizon.net

Amen to that!

I've got fios and I've been watching tons of netflix and play some internet games here and there and the usage trend makes it look next to impossible to bust all they way up to 2TB in a month.
The only way that is looking possible is if these people are trying to do it by downloading all the illegal movies and software they can running their torrents 24/7

They are only going to do one thing... ruin it for the rest of us fios customers who just use enough to watch netflix and upload a few files here and again.

Vamp9190

join:2002-02-11
Chantilly, VA

The problem is that you are thinking in TB, but the providers are thinking in MB and GB!

Their caps are so low that anyone using the internet to play games, watch Netflix and do legitimate tasks will be paying a few HUNDERD dollars a month, or more.

Who knows how they count all the 'data transfer.' What if you go to an online shopping site like Amazon and 1 page is say, 100kb (probably more because of images, etc.) and you browse for 30 min and hit 50 other pages looking at stuff.....that's 5MB right there.
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

Re: No problems with caps when...

If they're looking at charging $300+ a month to most people due to caps and overages, that's got to spark some competition in building out their own networks. Heck, anyone who's paying those sorts of costs could start thinking about a T1 with no caps for christs sake.
--
Opera 9.62(Build 10467); Windows XP Pro SP3;Intel C2Q6600; 3GB DDR2 1066; 1M/128k DSL; Antivir Personal; Comodo Firewall Pro 3;Proxomitron 4.5j Sidki 2008beta,GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI

Caps are crap and the arguments for them are crap...

Cause you never see the actual tier price drop. It doesn't make service cost less for a single soul, just rapes some customers for even more money.

If these cap promoters were actually telling the truth about light users versus heavy users, you would see a $7.50 "connectivity" fee and then the metered billing. But no, they still want their $45+ base price whether you download a single thing or not and then go up from there.
--
POKE 65495,1
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Caps are crap and the arguments for them are crap...

I know, what did we EVER do to them OTHER than make them lots of money. Why must they feel the need to skrew us.

Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI

Re: Caps are crap and the arguments for them are crap...

It's fine if they try and screw people...that is free enterprise. What I want to know is why they feel so compelled to try and bull-S about it. If they want to put their customers over a barrel be honest about it. Doing this endless circlejerk of "customers love paying higher prices" is getting them nowhere.
--
POKE 65495,1
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Caps are crap and the arguments for them are crap...

I agree, if you are going to skrew us(which they DO have the option to do that as they own the ISP not us) have the guts to tell us to our faces.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

said by Bit See Profile :

Cause you never see the actual tier price drop. It doesn't make service cost less for a single soul, just rapes some customers for even more money.

If these cap promoters were actually telling the truth about light users versus heavy users, you would see a $7.50 "connectivity" fee and then the metered billing. But no, they still want their $45+ base price whether you download a single thing or not and then go up from there.
If you look at Cable Pricing, you will find their OFFICIAL Connectivity Charge is $5. I base this on how much of a discount I am given if I order an Internet Tier with TV vs. what I am charged if I want only Internet. Thus if some cable company wants to offer Metering then that is the base rate that they should be charging for no usage. If they want to toss in some usage then this amount should be deleted from the charges and the cap/allowance should then be divided from the remainder. That Per-Unit figure should be the MAXIMUM that you get charged for overage. IOW: If my Cap is 250GB and I get charged $50 after the discount fee has been removed, then any overage should be billed at no more than $0.20/GB since that is what I am being charged for the Allocated/Capped usage.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Some observations

Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read Time Warner Cable's 10-K form
I'd venture to say that a vast majority of TW's customers wouldn't know a 10K form if it jumped up and bit them on the behind. And many don't have a clue as to whether TW even makes a profit or not. They only know what they pay per month is more than they would like.
-------
If Verizon decides to move to usage based billing, then I would think they would be smart enough to make it cost neutral for the average user and even a little discount for very light users. And once you get them on the usage plans and their usage starts to rise due to more online video viewing, you got them hooked.

At least that is how I would manage the process. Sort of like the story where you put the frog in a pot full of room temperature water and slowly raise the temperature over time. If you throw the frog in hot water, he jumps right out. But slowly bring it to a boil and you've got it cooked.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Some observations

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

then I would think they would be smart enough to make it cost neutral for the average user and even a little discount for very light users. And once you get them on the usage plans and their usage starts to rise due to more online video viewing, you got them hooked.
That's the way to bring capped/metered billing to the marketplace. I'm surprised the incumbent ISP's haven't raised rates across their customer base while offering discounts back to the previous costs for customers that choose caps and metered billing. Customers would see a "standard" price increase, but an option to receive a discount "saving them money" even though it would be a wash in the end. This approach would have avoided a vast majority of the bad press and consumer push back for all but some technophiles that rant on sites like DSLR....and for them, they can pay the premium for uncapped and/or unmetered connections.
glinc

join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

meh

cap downloads im fine with it....but don't cap my upload or i'll have to pay extra for a seedbox!!

I've uploaded over 5TB in a month lol.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: meh

said by glinc See Profile :

cap downloads im fine with it....but don't cap my upload or i'll have to pay extra for a seedbox!!

I've uploaded over 5TB in a month lol.
Then pay for a seedbox, your use exceeds even a 10mbit ethernet line 24/7/365.
MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

They do cap performance

Right now, they cap performance. You sign up for 15/2 and they do not let you go over that, even if there is capacity to do so. So, why is capping usage worse than capping performance? What if they came out with a plan to let performance float but put a cap on usage? What if both usage and performance were metered?

We live in a world of limited resources. So, we should pay for those resources that we use. I like unlimited usage since it makes my budgeting easier. But, I think fair usage charges would be OK. Then again, I doubt that Verizon and I would ever agree on what is fair.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: They do cap performance

said by MichaelWacey See Profile :

Right now, they cap performance. You sign up for 15/2 and they do not let you go over that, even if there is capacity to do so. So, why is capping usage worse than capping performance? What if they came out with a plan to let performance float but put a cap on usage? What if both usage and performance were metered?
Because while they give you 15/2 as the maximum speeds you get, they also want to claim that you are not allowed to use your connection 24/7. Capping usage says you are not allowed to use your connection as much as you are want to.

Think of it this way - You have a car and you are allowed to drive it at any speed as you want up to 65MPH (so long as you do not exceed the speed limit on the road/street you are currently driving on). Your usage is how many miles you drive in the month. If you stay on 25MPH city streets you are driving 25 miles for each hour you are driving (driving on highway allows you to travel 55-65 miles each hour). Usage Caps is like saying that you can only drive X miles in the Month (like auto rentals where you may have a mileage allowance as opposed to "Unlimited Mileage").

jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT
·Comcast

Re: They do cap performance

said by RARPSL See Profile
Your usage is how many miles you drive in the month.
[/BQUOTE :


I know it's analogy and all but you can argue it both ways. You're still paying per-gallon of gas to go however many miles in a month you want. Want to go further, you pay more, want to go shorter distances? You pay less.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: They do cap performance

said by jsz0 See Profile :

said by RARPSL See Profile
Your usage is how many miles you drive in the month.
[/BQUOTE :


I know it's analogy and all but you can argue it both ways. You're still paying per-gallon of gas to go however many miles in a month you want. Want to go further, you pay more, want to go shorter distances? You pay less.
The auto rental scenario that I mentioned is any example of the usage analogy that I mentioned. You are given a designated number of miles you are allowed to drive before you get hit with overage charges. The speeds you drive do not apply (unless the Rental Company monitors your speeds via GPS or an on-board black box [which some companies have done] so they can add an automatic "speeding" surcharge to your bill). Your gas is the equivalent of your electric bill (neither of which have anything to do with the car analogy).

Brakeheart

@zyxel.com

Video content migrating to IP

Part of this hot dilemma is that video content is migrating to IP - service providers have enjoyed milking TV profits since consumers are forced to bundle in expensive channels they don't want. Its not all the service provider's fault either, the broadcasting companies are tyrannical and are not afraid to use their own media delivery to bash their potential video serve provider partners.

That being said, we now realize that on-demand content that is free (advertising model), or on-demand content that is paid for is our future, the Internet service providers will see an increased use of bandwidth and a diminished ability to exact profits by monopoly and duopoly.

To be sure, the net neutrality debate is misguided. The term itself covers many topics that are better discussed separately. One is almost forced to be opposed to all or agree with all issues within net-neutrality. Time Warner attempted to impose unimaginably restrictive caps, possibly if they opened up the caps to something reasonable, people may not have reacted as they did.

Ultimately bandwidth usage will increase and there must be some kind of burden on the parties who are making the most profit to share the cost of providing bigger broadband pipes. In the background, the service providers and content providers are waging a sneaky war and delicately trying to avoid stepping on the consumer as they do so.

Consumers who use the most should be paying the most, but after we've all been abused by cell phone providers, I cannot forsee people accepting overage fees and restrictive caps

vapor2314

@lexis-nexis.com

Re: Video content migrating to IP

for the love of god people stop saying you are willing to accept a cap if it is reasonable. There is no need other than greed for caps

jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT

Re: Video content migrating to IP

Well, they are for-profit companies.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Crap4crap...

The way Verizon's billing system is now, ...

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

Regulate The Meters

If these ISP's want to meter Internet delivery then regulations should be put in place that subject the "meter" to the same controls as electric meters, gasoline pumps and scales at stores. The local government bureau that is responsible in a given area for making sure electric meters and other measuring devices are correct, and who seals and certifies the various measuring devices, should be the ones who monitor the ISP for fairness. Otherwise, you can pretty much guarantee that ISP "meter" will have a tendency to high-ball your usage in order to push you into the overage column. That level of detailed regulation on Verizon and the cable companies might be enough to dissuade them.

Personally I would not trust the ISP, whose interest in seeing me go over caps, to meter my usage.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

aannoonn11235



If they want metered billing, the make it an actual utility!

If they want to charge by the byte, then they must be forced to turn internet access into a public utility.

Proper certified meters must be put into place to measure actual usage (exclude spam & DDoS too. Nobody should be charged for access they aren't using).

Start prices really low (connection fee & taxes) add a small fee for modem / router usage/rental.

Do not have speed tiers. Give everybody full access.. The more your consume, the more you pay. The meter will tick tick tick for each and ever byte you upload & download.

Throw awary the "unlimited" $69.99 for 10down/5up bull crap.

It's $0.99 per byte up/down. Prices increases for up/down stream must be voted in/out by the public. No PUC is ever on the side of the citizen. The internet should be seen as a medium of free flowing speach with limited or no censorship. All citizen should have access, just like having fresh water or free access on roads (where tolls aren't allowed).

Otherwise, we need a true municipal non-profit access to the internet. The for-profit companies are abusing the internet & the access points to the internet. For-profit will never be on the side of the citizen/consumer.

Remember, the internet (research and all) was paid for by US citizens. Information should flow freely through it. But there's no reason to gouge citizens/customers for access & services to & from the internet.

Peace!

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: If they want metered billing, the make it an actual utility!

At $0.99 per byte, no one would be online any more.

said by aannoonn11235 :

If they want to charge by the byte, then they must be forced to turn internet access into a public utility.

Proper certified meters must be put into place to measure actual usage (exclude spam & DDoS too. Nobody should be charged for access they aren't using).

Start prices really low (connection fee & taxes) add a small fee for modem / router usage/rental.

Do not have speed tiers. Give everybody full access.. The more your consume, the more you pay. The meter will tick tick tick for each and ever byte you upload & download.

Throw awary the "unlimited" $69.99 for 10down/5up bull crap.

It's $0.99 per byte up/down. Prices increases for up/down stream must be voted in/out by the public. No PUC is ever on the side of the citizen. The internet should be seen as a medium of free flowing speach with limited or no censorship. All citizen should have access, just like having fresh water or free access on roads (where tolls aren't allowed).

Otherwise, we need a true municipal non-profit access to the internet. The for-profit companies are abusing the internet & the access points to the internet. For-profit will never be on the side of the citizen/consumer.

Remember, the internet (research and all) was paid for by US citizens. Information should flow freely through it. But there's no reason to gouge citizens/customers for access & services to & from the internet.

Peace!

annonnn1122358

Re: If they want metered billing, the make it an actual utility!

Ok.. so my cost per byte example was a little high..

Make it $0.001 or something....

Peace
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Click for full size
said by aaronwt See Profile :

At $0.99 per byte, no one would be online any more.
At that price I will get my internet through Optical Telegraph.
scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
$.99 / GIGABYte, maybe...

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: If they want metered billing, the make it an actual utility!

said by scooper See Profile :

$.99 / GIGABYte, maybe...
Even that would be too high.

Mike_

join:2003-06-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL


1 edit

Verizon's usual limitations

Of course Verizon is going to meter. They regulate in almost every other way (wireless phone file restrictions, software restrictions, web is for "checking e-mail", etc). They are in a bubble of their own on that though. And sadly, people still are ok with paying more for less. The most overpriced, smallest "bang for buck" provider offered of almost any company. FiOS was doing the opposite - what one would expect a provider to provide. Limitless Internet on a nice fat pipe. So, they have to put FiOS in their "restrictive" category too.
--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless you know what you're doing.
BioGeek
Premium
join:2007-08-25
West Orange, NJ
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Wireless B..

Verizon doesn't have as strong of a need to cap.

I could be wrong here, but I have often heard that Verizon is among the elite group of Tier 1 networks. They directly connect to just about everything else and do not need to pay for transit on other Tier 1 networks. (Just as other Tier 1 providers do not need to pay for transit on the VZ network.)

With that in mind.... Comcast, Time Warner, etc have the issue of having to pay for carriage of their data on other networks (or have otherwise worked out a deal). They have a cost associated with bandwidth that can far exceed their own network considerations.

Verizon (and AT&T also) already have immense well established long haul networks. They have their own network costs to worry about of course, but they do not have to worry about any agreements beyond the standard "you carry my traffic and I carry yours" Tier 1 agreement.

Other side to this is that AT&T and Verizon may want ubiquitous capping so that the overall internet traffic flow is held in control so that their networks do not get over loaded. This could be from their own customers or from other networks being carried across theirs.

I would personally prefer no caps. But in my mind, I am not an excessive user and the ideal cap would not affect me. I expect to be able to use Hulu, netflix, xbox live and the like without incurring a cap. I see a cap as targeting torrenters who download and upload immense amounts of data almost 24/7. With any luck, the competition will come from how big your cap is.

Really, if the capping is done right, it shouldn't hurt. Metering though....that is a different animal. Have to set the ranges and price per byte just right so that the average customer has no reason to complain. However, wouldn't making people think about internet traffic the same way they do gas, electric and water really stifle exploration, learning and fun that the internet has become all about?

xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Re: Verizon doesn't have as strong of a need to cap.

ahem. 20/20 fios wide open all the time. if you dont like it, that's your problem. not mine. this is for only 6 months or so.

davidwr

@rr.com

Metered billing okay, unfair pricing not okay

There is nothing wrong with metered billing as long as it reflects actual costs plus a reasonable markup.

If the true cost of providing service to your home is $30/month + $0.01/TB then you can reasonably charge $40+0.0125/TB. If the true cost is $5/month + $1/TB then you can reasonably charge $6 + $1.25/TB.

If the true cost is $5/month + $1/GB, which would reasonably allow you to charge $6 + $1.25/GB, then dollars to donuts you aren't a land-line telco. If you are, you are very inefficient and deserve to go out of business.

The problem with recent plans to meter wasn't the meter, it was the rate.

loaka

@shawcable.net

meter billing is just silly

In Canada we have limits but even such horrible companies like telus and bell know that its a really stupid idea. Tho bell doesnt really care about its customers.

jojoey

@rr.com

What about Voip???

If you use magicjack or vonige....did they condider that? Sometimes I spend hours on the phone...
bicker

join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA

Whiners will whine; but they do not deny the value

Of course consumers would prefer low prices for unlimited service with no caps. It is irrational, though, to expect service providers to defecate on the interests of their owners and not seek ways to better reflect value delivered in the prices that they charge.

While up-starts will always seek to undersell the market leaders, eventually they up-starts become market leaders and -- Guess what? -- they act like market leaders. If they don't realign pricing with value using metering or using usage caps then they will find some other way. If they don't, they're idiots, or chumps.

And if you think companies that have the ability to provide high-speed Internet service are idiots or chumps, then you're delusional!

See 8 replies to this post
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Advertising.

I don't give a damn what any ISP or Web site owner says.

If this kind of metered billing happens ubiquitously with all ISP's the advertising HAS TO GO then.

If I am paying per byte, I have to be able to maximize my moneys worth or I just wont buy my service from that particular ISP.

This also will have to bust open local monopolies. If I only have ONE choice of ISP and they are billing me this way and I have no other choice then its critical that something has to go and that would be all advertising eating up my bandwidth.

These ISP's are not thinking through how their model currently works.
mdmathis6

join:2001-10-15
Midlothian, VA

Verizon,race relations,and .50 per gigabyte!

Verizon is in large degree minority run and owned(the old Behhhll Atlahhhntic as "Darth Vader" used to intone). You won't see anti metering legislation under this present administration though you might see a sudden 60 per cent government ownership and the "net" strictly controlled by "No"Bama's Internet Czar! If any thing metering will be welcomed as a means of the Fed's being then able to tax per gigabyte!

This country is screwwed!
Forums » Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?page: 1 · 2


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