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Is Cable Poised To Dominate The Telcos?
DOCSIS 3.0 will push telcos to up their game...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 03-Mar-2010 tags: dsl · competition · business · bandwidth · cable · consumers
Our friend Bernie Arnason over at Telecompetitor makes the argument that with DOCSIS 3.0 relatively inexpensive to quickly deploy (75 million Americans should have it by the end of the year) and many telcos clinging to aging copper last mile connectivity, the cable industry should have it pretty good competitively over the next few years. Comcast added more broadband customers (608K) in the last two quarters than AT&T, Verizon, and Qwest combined (401K), and cable's triple play continues to gobble up fleeing copper landline customers. Cable also dominates more than 90% of the VoIP market.

Cable's traditional weak spot -- upstream bandwidth, looks to get some help later this year as cable operators perfect upstream channel bonding. Comcast recently noted that they're seeing 75 to 100 Mbps upstream in tests. While Verizon's decision to spend $23 billion on FTTH to the home puts them in a decent position for now, there's a huge swath of America served by telcos using aging copper infrastructure that many of these companies can't afford to upgrade to fiber. DOCSIS 3.0 means telcos will up their game somehow:

It all adds up to this perfect competitive storm analogy I referred to early on. This storm compels the telcos who haven’t already done so to respond, primarily with FTTH. Good customer service, local presence, and a solid DSL product are very admirable and noble. But these storm clouds may demand much more.

Can Qwest seriously compete with DOCSIS 3.0 with no money for serious upgrades? Marketing that pretends last mile copper is FTTH can only go so far. When does AT&T decide to stop waiting on VDSL bonding and pony up the cash for the move to FTTH? 3-7 Mbps is the fastest speed offered by Verizon in roughly half of its broadband territories. Luckily for most carriers, they'll be sheltered from the "perfect competitive storm" Arnason mentions by the simple fact that many of their markets don't see decent competition. When you're the only game in town (be it cable, telco, satellite or carrier pigeon), you get to charge whatever you'd like for last-generation service.

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fAcEtIOUs
Premium
join:2002-03-03
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2 edits

Lack of competition hasn't stopped Comcast upgrading my area

When you're the only game in town (be it cable, telco, satellite or carrier pigeon), you get to charge whatever you'd like for last-generation service.
Old Verizon DSL(max 3 mbps downstream) is the best Verizon or anyone else has done in my area in the way of competition to Comcast. Except Comcast which has upgraded their speeds about 10 times in the last 8 yrs without any increase in price for the basic HSI(or is that now called Xfinity )tier. So why hasn't Comcast raised their price or stayed on slow speeds? A lack of competition hasn't made them stand still.

Comcast seems to be defying the stereotype of "No Competition, therefore no improved service".

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA

Re: Lack of competition hasn't stopped Comcast upgrading my area

I just moved BECAUSE of the laughably low 3mb offered in my area....that was IT unless I want Sat web service.

No thanks

Now I have FiOS which makes me want to cry from happiness

JRW2
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Re: Lack of competition hasn't stopped Comcast upgrading my area

said by Van:

Now I have FiOS which makes me want to cry from happiness
This is why Comcast raised speeds with no price increase, they were afraid they would lose MORE customers as FIOS continued to be rolled out.
With Verizon stopping their rollouts, I doubt you will see as much change in the coming months/years...
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Kendall, FL
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Re: Lack of competition hasn't stopped Comcast upgrading my area

said by JRW2:

said by Van:

Now I have FiOS which makes me want to cry from happiness
This is why Comcast raised speeds with no price increase, they were afraid they would lose MORE customers as FIOS continued to be rolled out.
With Verizon stopping their rollouts, I doubt you will see as much change in the coming months/years...
I disagree. If this was true, then Comcast would have only upped the speeds in the FiOS markets. Instead, they did a blanket nationwide upgrade from 6/1 to 12/2, 8/2 to 16/2, and then added 22/5 and 50/5.

Comcast is upgrading their network because they choose to, not because Verizon rolled out FiOS.
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Chasmn

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Afraid... to funny, Fios doesnt come close to the footprint that comcast has... if anything they would be afraid of att with the availability of uverse. Fios is a better product but hardly gets to the same customer level as others

fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN
said by JRW2:

said by Van:

Now I have FiOS which makes me want to cry from happiness
This is why Comcast raised speeds with no price increase, they were afraid they would lose MORE customers as FIOS continued to be rolled out.
With Verizon stopping their rollouts, I doubt you will see as much change in the coming months/years...
Comcast has been raising speeds for free for the last 10 years. MUCH longer before FIOS was around.
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nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
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·Verizon FiOS
the only props I will give to comcast is that at least they pushed ahead with upgrades, even in areas where they didn't have competition.

This is unlike the telcos, who sat around on their @sses while this happened, with a few exceptions like Verizon.

that being said, I hate comcast, have FIOS now and will never go back to cable unless they get rid of caps and price lower than fiber. and maybe not even then.

baineschile
2600 ways to live
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Sterling Heights, MI
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I think...

This article is spot on. For the old bells to compete at this point, there are really only 2 viable options; full fiber network, which will hold the network up for the next 40 years, but is extremely expenise, or investing in the latest and greatest ways to move data wirelessly (optic-laser pulsing comes to mind).

AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
kudos:1
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·RoadRunner Cable

Re: I think...

This will prove interesting, considering Frontier bought Verizons WI operations. Also Charter did the free upgrade from 5 Meg to 8 Meg, while most of Verizons dsl customers can not get the 7.1 Meg DSL..
»Charter Offers Free Speed Upgrades

It would not surprise me if Frontier had a problem trying to to compete with Charters internet.

[Charter and Verizon are both in quite a few WI cities.. together.]

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
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said by baineschile:

This article is spot on. For the old bells to compete at this point, there are really only 2 viable options; full fiber network, which will hold the network up for the next 40 years, but is extremely expenise, or investing in the latest and greatest ways to move data wirelessly (optic-laser pulsing comes to mind).
The bells can still compete by offering things the cable networks have been implementing or testing.

No data caps

If the bells offer DSL speeds, but have no caps on the speeds, thats a good selling point. Sure, you only get 3mbps down and 768k up, but the good thing is that you can have that thing going full bore 24/7. It may be a better selling point than having a 12mbps/2mbps line with a 250gb cap.
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NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

Re: I think...

said by Nightfall:

said by baineschile:

This article is spot on. For the old bells to compete at this point, there are really only 2 viable options; full fiber network, which will hold the network up for the next 40 years, but is extremely expenise, or investing in the latest and greatest ways to move data wirelessly (optic-laser pulsing comes to mind).
The bells can still compete by offering things the cable networks have been implementing or testing.

No data caps

If the bells offer DSL speeds, but have no caps on the speeds, thats a good selling point. Sure, you only get 3mbps down and 768k up, but the good thing is that you can have that thing going full bore 24/7. It may be a better selling point than having a 12mbps/2mbps line with a 250gb cap.
For me the cap is a deal breaker and why I stay on DSL. First Concast lied about any cap now they made it policy to have it at 250GB, they can easily start dropping that when they see fit. AT&T tried caps and they got their ass handed to them by the small subscriber base, I suspect they won't try for them anytime soon.

Not only that but Concast wants you to use their services yet it will count against my cap.. i.e- they have started selling a backup services tool, released XFinity and is looking at a music streaming service. So assuming I buy all these... and use them, you are then gonna tag me with a cap? I don't care if Concast offers 100M down and up, don't offer the speed if you are telling me I can't use it.

LeftOfSanity
People Suck.

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE

Re: I think...

said by NOCTech75:

said by Nightfall:

said by baineschile:

This article is spot on. For the old bells to compete at this point, there are really only 2 viable options; full fiber network, which will hold the network up for the next 40 years, but is extremely expenise, or investing in the latest and greatest ways to move data wirelessly (optic-laser pulsing comes to mind).
The bells can still compete by offering things the cable networks have been implementing or testing.

No data caps

If the bells offer DSL speeds, but have no caps on the speeds, thats a good selling point. Sure, you only get 3mbps down and 768k up, but the good thing is that you can have that thing going full bore 24/7. It may be a better selling point than having a 12mbps/2mbps line with a 250gb cap.
For me the cap is a deal breaker and why I stay on DSL. First Concast lied about any cap now they made it policy to have it at 250GB, they can easily start dropping that when they see fit. AT&T tried caps and they got their ass handed to them by the small subscriber base, I suspect they won't try for them anytime soon.

Not only that but Concast wants you to use their services yet it will count against my cap.. i.e- they have started selling a backup services tool, released XFinity and is looking at a music streaming service. So assuming I buy all these... and use them, you are then gonna tag me with a cap? I don't care if Concast offers 100M down and up, don't offer the speed if you are telling me I can't use it.
If they didn't count it against their caps, could you imagine all the slamming they would get for favoring their own service but not others? Net Neutral.

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

Re: I think...

said by LeftOfSanity:

If they didn't count it against their caps, could you imagine all the slamming they would get for favoring their own service but not others? Net Neutral.
Then don't have the caps if you are going to sell products competing in the marketplace that is going to suck huge amounts of data. Double dipping as a business practice is not exactly ethical either and that is what Concast is looking to do.
caco
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK

Re: I think...

They are not charging you for going over the 250 so not sure where you are getting this double dipping stuff.

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

Re: I think...

said by caco:

They are not charging you for going over the 250 so not sure where you are getting this double dipping stuff.
No, they just boot you off. Which of course means you have either find another provider or go without, finding another provider can lead to increased costs.. maybe cheaper but doubtful.
rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

Re: I think...

They dont boot you off anymore. They throttle your connection.
caco
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK
Your average family isn't using their connection full bore 24/7.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
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Putnam, CT
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Unless you are in an area served by some smaller cable ISPs.

While I think Metrocast in my area does "ok", we in northern CT are surrounded by Cox, Comcast, and Fios. I can get 10/1 but I pay $70 a month for it. The other option which I was lucky to get was AT&T Elite DSL whihch was much cheaper but half the speed.

I don't care what medium delivers my speed, just get the speeds up to par....
niblifar

join:2004-02-12
Ohio

They'll up their game

And up their prices.
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majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
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hmm

Its not just people in the boonies that verizon refuses to update. Here on long island they have a contract with the town ut only wired up about 1/4th of it and stopped. This is a suburb of NYC .

Verzion is letting the cablecompanies gain subscribers just by not wiring up whole communities.

JRW2
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1 edit

Re: hmm

said by majortom1029:

Its not just people in the boonies that verizon refuses to update. Here on long island they have a contract with the town ut only wired up about 1/4th of it and stopped. This is a suburb of NYC .

Verzion is letting the cablecompanies gain subscribers just by not wiring up whole communities.
CV is lobbying HARD to keep Verizon from getting a TV agreement on LI, so that is why FIOS is not rolled out in areas where it could be...

They have effectively BLOCKED FIOS in Brookhaven.
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majortom1029

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Lindenhurst, NY
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Re: hmm

said by JRW2:

said by majortom1029:

Its not just people in the boonies that verizon refuses to update. Here on long island they have a contract with the town ut only wired up about 1/4th of it and stopped. This is a suburb of NYC .

Verzion is letting the cablecompanies gain subscribers just by not wiring up whole communities.
CV is lobbying HARD to keep Verizon from getting a TV agreement on LI, so that is why FIOS is not rolled out in areas where it could be...

They have effectively BLOCKED FIOS in Brookhaven.
Here in lindenhurst fios has a tv agreement in the village and town of babylon and verizon refuses to wire all of lindenhurst .So it has nothing to do with Cablevision .

Verizon stated they will not be wiring any more places up in the country.

So verizon themselves essentially gave up and is letting the cablecompanies win.

LittleIsland

@verizon.net

Re: hmm

The problem with Long Island is the five hundred little incorporated villages and towns that want to play big city administration games.

"Well Verizon, you may have negotiated with the county,but now you have to negotiate with us,this town isn't big, but we think we are!!"

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
Premium
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La La Land
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Re: hmm

Brookhaven is larger than Rhode Island.

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA

What else is new, but just for the Present!

With DOCSIS 3.0 the Cable Companies could Dominate today, but does that technology have enough Bandwidth to compete with FTTH? Remember everything is going to be coming over that DOCSIS 3.0 Coax, High Speed Broadband, Phone, HD TV, and HD Video. I really don't think it has the Bandwidth to compete with FTTH. Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
bidger

join:2009-12-23
Elmira, NY
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

said by alchav:

Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
If you're one of those fortunate individuals where FIOS is available. 1.5Mbps down is all that's available to me from Verizon. After five years I got tired of waiting for an upgrade and after ten years without TWC in my house, I ordered RR last month. All I'll say is, so far so good. If and when FIOS is available, I'll reassess. If DirecTV follows through with 20Mbps down in 2012, that's another option. Right now, RR, no D3 yet, is my best option for Internet connectivity.

KodiacZiller
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Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

said by bidger:

said by alchav:

Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
DirecTV follows through with 20Mbps down in 2012, that's another option. Right now, RR, no D3 yet, is my best option for Internet connectivity.
If you don't mind very high latency, then 20Mbps DirecTV might not be a bad option. Remember that signal is having to travel 22,000 miles each way -- there is no way around the latency.
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BillRoland
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Ocala, FL
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said by alchav:

With DOCSIS 3.0 the Cable Companies could Dominate today, but does that technology have enough Bandwidth to compete with FTTH? Remember everything is going to be coming over that DOCSIS 3.0 Coax, High Speed Broadband, Phone, HD TV, and HD Video. I really don't think it has the Bandwidth to compete with FTTH. Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
Except Verizon's FiOS footprint is pretty small comparatively.
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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1
said by alchav:

With DOCSIS 3.0 the Cable Companies could Dominate today, but does that technology have enough Bandwidth to compete with FTTH? Remember everything is going to be coming over that DOCSIS 3.0 Coax, High Speed Broadband, Phone, HD TV, and HD Video. I really don't think it has the Bandwidth to compete with FTTH. Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
The cable companies can upgrade to FTTH if they wish, later on when it's appropriate, since a large portion of their network is already fiber.

Right now there just isn't much need for FTTH services if you can get the same bandwidth via DOCSIS3. Even Verizon only has about 480Mbit/s with their GPON architecture. Yes, more speed can be had later on with XGPON but they'd have to upgrade.

Broadband, phone and HDTV, DOCSIS3 and phone aren't the major bandwidth hogs. Analog is. Once analog is gone there will be plenty of room.
iansltx

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Golden, CO
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Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

480 Mbit/s? Nope.

BPON: 622 Mbps down, 155 Mbps up
GPON: 2.488 Gbps down, 1.244 Gbps up
10GPON: ~10 Gbps down, ~2.5 Gbps up

Shared between at most 32 (BPON) or 64 (GPON) customers

DOCSIS 3: Nx38 Mbps down, Nx30 Mbps up, N=4 for downloads and 1 for uploads right now, though it'll eventually be 8 for downloads and 4 for uploads.

Shared between 125-1000 subscribers (I think Comcast is around 250, Cablevision is in the 60s, Suddenlink is in the 100-200 range for their upgraded infrastructure, significantly more for their older stuff)...

Whether Verizon is actually using their GPON architecture to its fullest capacity is a whole other deal (they aren't) but you're drastically underestimating the capacity of the current fiber architectures out there.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

So in other words I actually overestimated the bandwidth per home.

2.4Gbit/s divided by 32 homes is 75Mbps per home.

And before you go telling me that it can be upgraded to XGPON or 10GPON, I know this. And this was my point - what's there now for any provider isn't set in stone. And since Cable's core network is fiber they are well poised to upgrade when the need arises.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
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Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

Well, using your methods the current 4x1 bonding with 125 homes per node (conservative) nets you 1.216 Mbps per customer down, 240 kbps per customer up. Apple to apples, kthxbai.

Also, not all providers use PON. Active Ethernet systems are at 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps now. PON systems have more capacity overall but active has more non-blocking capacity, which is the game you want to play.

Oh, and for kicks, let's factor in cable not having 64QAM uploads in many areas (basically most non-Comcast territory). The result: 80 kbps of upload capacity per customer non-blocking in those areas (10 Mbps of upload capacity over 125 homes).
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1
Yes it does have the bandwidth. First off verizon dropped their analog and cablecompanies are too. That frees up a lot of bandwidth.

Some companies like cablevision switched to sdv . That frees up more bandwidth.

Docsis 3 also allows you to move upstream to above 850mhz which frees up more bandwidth.

between docsis 3 and other ways of freeing up bandidth the cable companies have nothing to worry about.

Especia;;y considering verizon refuses to light up whole communities with fios. Even communities where they have contracts already.
guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1

Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

The Video has nothing to do with internet bandwidth on FIOS, FIOS has three frequency's for light on the Fiber, one for Phone, internet and Video. Drop analog channels was to have more QAM space for HDTV
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1

Re: What else is new, but just for the Present!

Yes i know that but it still freed up space for them to do add more channels Just like it would on the cable end.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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Mullica Hill, NJ
why not just provision DSL modems faster? cant DSL do something like 16mbit or is that only if the DSLAM is in your celler.
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nukscull

@rr.com
said by alchav:

With DOCSIS 3.0 the Cable Companies could Dominate today, but does that technology have enough Bandwidth to compete with FTTH? Remember everything is going to be coming over that DOCSIS 3.0 Coax, High Speed Broadband, Phone, HD TV, and HD Video. I really don't think it has the Bandwidth to compete with FTTH. Right now Verizon is the clear winner!
No, not everything is going to be coming over DOCSIS 3.0. They have no reason to send HDTV or VOD over DOCSIS, because they already have video delivery systems that use the other bandwidth on the coax. There is no reason for cable providers to deliver IPTV over DOCSIS 3.0 since they have already paid for QAMs to deliver digital channels over analog. They MIGHT switch VOD to be delivered over DOCSIS 3.0, as that would save them some conversions and some hardware. But even if they had 1 DOCSIS 3.0 channel dedicated to VOD, and 2 or 3 dedicated to wideband Internet, they'd still have many more analog channels left to deliver many things on.

And really, you threw phone in there? VoIP takes about 150k, 300k if you have 2 lines going at the same. That isn't even something you'd worry about with DOCSIS1.1 much less 3.0.

FIOS FTTH carries the video product on different frequencies than the Internet product as well. So both FTTH and DOCSIS 3.0 are well positioned to provide plenty of Internet bandwidth.

They already easily deliver HD video and video on demand over fiber and coax.

And if anything, because of falling ad revenues and cable and content providers playing hardball over carriage, I see there being less TV channels in the future as less watched channels have to shut down, so bandwidth on that FTTH and coax isn't going to really be strained at all.

mod_wastrel
Gone fishin'

join:2008-03-28

Yeah,

lack of "decent competition", and the fact that "3-7 mbps is the fastest speed" that most people need to "browse" the Internet (till you get to multiple-user homes with everyone wanting to "surf the web" all at the same time). If the "slowsky" telcos drop their prices in the face of higher speed competition (if/when it arrives), then bunches of customers will be happy to pay less for "slower" speeds. Way more people would rather pay less for only the speed they need than pay more for super-fast speeds that are 3 or 4 (or more) times faster than they need.

Sadly, the "national broadband plan" won't equate to "ensure decent competition" (or even the appearance of it).
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Yeah,

On the "lower speed for lower $$$" argument I'd say that's true...to an extent. Some people will stick with the $25 internet tier if they are provided one, while others (like yours truly) are willing to pay $50-$85 for internet, depending on how fast that internet is. I'd be willing to ay $85 for 35 Mbps symmetric but not $80 for 22/5; right now I'm paying $60 for 12/2 but would pay $70 for 20/4.

On the other hand you have people whose maximum internet expenditure is in the $50 range, subject to not getting crappy internet. They'll go for cable on average. Or fiber, if it's available and not priced in the stratosphere (FiOS 15/5 would be an example of such a decently-priced tier).

The folks who want cheap broadband will go with DSL, unless cable gives them a nice tirple play deal.

mod_wastrel
Gone fishin'

join:2008-03-28

Re: Yeah,

Back when I was working full-time (in IT), not only was I willing to pay quite a bit for broadband, I was willing to pay for redundancy--Verizon DSL and Comcast HSI (worked at a hospital). Didn't care about TV; had Vonage and Verizon POTS/PSTN (along with the DSL--no such thing as a dry-loop around here back then... or now as far as I know). Now, I still don't care about TV; have gone cell-phone only for now (though I still have the Gizmo/Google Voice setup--for when Gizmo actually works); and FiOS (same plan/price I've had for several years, since I got it). $55 for fast FiOS is OK, but I wouldn't have a problem going back to $30 or so for DSL (dry-loop) at 3000/768... of course, I can't get that where I live anyway; so $50-55 is about the best price I can get for any kind of broadband (even dial-up would cost $40 or more, so no contest there). Now, if I could get 5/2 FiOS for $30 or $35? yeah, I'd get it; it's fast enough for anything I still use the Internet for, and I can find better uses for the money. I could get a good triple-play price (for a year, then maybe switch for another year, and keep doing it), but there's really no value in doing that for me--I'm already getting the things I value at a price I can live with... don't really need a higher price along with getting things I don't value and don't really want.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8

Lower Caps

Of course that comes with less competition.

I'm sure Comcast will lower caps to 100GB or something insane in telco under-served areas.

It's all about the $.
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Comcast Cust

@comcast.net

Comcast still upgrading

I have had three cable companies where I live in the last 15 years.
I definitely think Comcast has been the best out of the three. That is not saying much but at least Comcast has done me right with broadband. I would never consider them for Phone or TV service.
But that's another story. For the money it beats the crap out of DSL service around here and the only other option has been a couple Wireless services that have cropped up in the last year or so. Even then they are just faster then DSL. Unless Fiber optics comes around (which I doubt) I think Cable broadband will be it for speed for some time to come.

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

As bad as it is for the telcos...

what people don't realize is..

it's only going to get WORSE.

Because now people WANT the speed..they hear about it all over..
and companies like AT&T don't have the upgrade path for them to compete effectively. And so..those people leave..and take their phone service with them. And the cable co's have the triple plays to add price insult to injury to the telcos..effectively pricing a landline at pennies compares to what they were paying with a telco.

People don't understand that the WORST damage to a sinking ship comes more towards the end than the beginning..
And these telcos are starting to stand on end...

I predicted this 2 to 3 years ago on this website..and it is now happening. People saw my posts as telco bashing. It wasn't that..

It was saying you had better get busy..real fast.

Because a storm was coming. A tornado in fact.

And that tornado is called

Xfinity.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

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majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1

Verizons problem

I think the cable companies will eventually win. VErizon is making a big mistake by stopping fios buildouts.

Cisco and some other companies have equipment that lets cablecompanies install Docsis 3 on their network and slowly transition to FTTH by simply changing out the cards in the nodes and things . Only having to really run the fiber to the home and put in the ont onto the side of the home.

This way cable companies can offer a high ftth tier and keep docsis3 coax for lower ones.

Verizon should keep wiring . By stopping they are risking being left in the dust.

Especially by companies like cablevision who arent affraid to keep offering new services.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

1 edit

Re: Verizons problem

I wonder why they stopped. Might be not enough ROI, which is why they're locking in people with hefty ETFs and not offering as generous deals as they did before.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Verizons problem

they stopped because of the economy, cant be blowing money on a buildout when the areas u way serve wlll have a boatload of foreclosed homes poping up, thus why they are focusing on their current footprint to recoup the costs

heat84
Bit Torrent Apologist

join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Both sides are Drago/ Why isn't fiber getting cheaper?

Why did Karl us a Rocky Vs Drago picture? Both sides are Drago.

Why isn't fiber getting cheaper? Because its not being used enough for the usual pattern of, the more a product is bought the cheaper it costs to buy, to take place?
--
Bit Torrent is my DVR.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

1 edit

Verizon DSL vs. Comcast

If you factor in cable television, Comcast makes the most sense. I'm fine with over-the-air and Hulu, so I've been sticking with 3Mbit Verizon DSL until FIOS comes in.

Comcast has a bad reputation for internet in some markets, and they've done some bad things with packet shaping. Also, the caps... I'd never hit them, but then if I had faster speed maybe I might use more bandwidth and run in to them some day.

Verizon has some goodwill from me, but Comcast could win me over with good behavior and fast upload speeds.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

think for a moment..

The prices for the higher bandwidth tiers are too expensive for residential customers. Unless Comcast or any other cable company 1-ups the expensive FIOS or cheaper dsl services already in place by having a better value-- NOTHING CHANGES! So, until it actually happens.. MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE!

The drop dead TOP tier residential customers are willing to pay for broadband today is $100, so beat it for 100mbit (symmetrical or nearly symmetrical) service or go broke trying to get there..

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die

join:2008-03-18

Re: think for a moment..

said by tmc8080:

The prices for the higher bandwidth tiers are too expensive for residential customers. Unless Comcast or any other cable company 1-ups the expensive FIOS or cheaper dsl services already in place by having a better value-- NOTHING CHANGES! So, until it actually happens.. MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE!

The drop dead TOP tier residential customers are willing to pay for broadband today is $100, so beat it for 100mbit (symmetrical or nearly symmetrical) service or go broke trying to get there..
There'll be a day where the music industry,telco's and cableco's will all die off.They are dinosaurs with dinosaur like thinking.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQowogjfHs


I like how NOFX put it in their songs,it's one of the best songs I've heard and truth is right there in the lyrics.

datguy

@comcast.net

Comcast Xfinity

I'm currently working for Comcast, and they're currently testing a 100mb/s connection. So far I've sustained 106mb/s with a cap out at 154 mb/s

fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..

Short answer?

Yup. I am a triple play subscriber and must say, the internet works, the phone works (and the quality is just as clear as a POTS line) and cable works great.

AT&T lost my POTS business because I was paying $70 a month for unlimited phone service. Then Comcast came out with their 1-year/$19.99 a month service. Of course, I am paying more than that now but with all of the features I get for what Comcast charge, it is still a great deal.

AT&T continually sends me these "come back to us" ads in the mail. Until they get with the program, I am staying with Comcast. It is not always Comcastic but it is more than enough.
--
Satan is always busy. He makes bad things look good and good things look bad! Watch that Devil.
cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
Cape Girardeau, MO
kudos:5

Yes

Yes, at least everyone but verizon and even they arent expanding fios anymore.
Unless the rest of the telco's pull a rabbit out of their hat they will be bleeding dsl users just like they are bleeding POTS lines.

Sure you will always have those users that will go for the "cheaper" DSL just like you still have some people on Dialup. But you would be stupid to cater ONLY to a demographic like this on puprose.

Bye Qwest

@comcast.net

Dumped Qwest for Comcast

My Qwest DSL service has been stagnant at 7Mb/896Kb for the past 5 years. I was loyal to Qwest until I found out I needed more upload bandwidth to backup my computer to an off site server. Even the 20Mb service they advertise is 896Kb up.

Then I heard of DOCSIS 3 and Comcast offering 50/10. I had to try it and then decided to dump Qwest.

From reading the local news, it looks like Qwest is trying to be bought out by one of the bigger telcos. Perhaps Verizon could come into the Mountain states and lay FIOS. Until then, I guess I will stick with Comcast.

So far it is wonderful and worth every penny.

BSD24
Tier 4
Premium
join:2008-04-30
Middleboro, MA

Fiber has fixed BW

Well seeing as though Fiberoptic cables have a fixed (set max) bandwidth.. And Coaxial is not exactly, its based on the technology (like Docsis3.0, etc..). So at somepoint I would think Cable providers will out-last FTTH providers in the future.. Only time will tell.
--
BSD

Agent Smith

join:2008-07-07
New York

Not really

Fiber is more advance then the old cable lines. Fiber can hold more bandwidth then cable nodes.

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