 | | Instead of Extending the reach they should focus on turning up more of those damn VARD boxes they have put all over the place.
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 | cahiattPremium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA | Re: Instead of Extending the reach GO ATT!!!! Bravo. Almost caught up with 10 year old technology. | |
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| | kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: Instead of Extending the reach Maybe old technology, but the results are great. My uVerse TV is leaps and bounds better then the Time Warner and Comcast services I previously had. More channels, always perfect picture and sound, more HD, more On Demand, fantastic guide and menu system and whole house DVR that I can access and program from my PC or my cell phone. And it saved me $50 a month from what I was paying Comcast for TV and internet.
The only drawback I have seen is the limitation of recording and/or viewing only 2 HD streams at a time and that hasn't really been a big deal, just an occasional nuisance.
I can't compare it to FIOS since Verizon doesn't have FIOS anywhere near me, but uVerse beats the snot out of cable TV. | |
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| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Instead of Extending the reach More channels? - You need more than 250+ channels? Most people are saying there are too many as it is.
More OnDemand? At last check, Comcast has the largest library of OnDemand than any other carrier.
Faster Guide? Eh.. not enough to notice.. the att guide is better, but not sure about speed.
It has it's pluses, but U-Verse also has a ton of minuses too. But, I enjoy having as many TV's that I want, the guide I could care less about. I have plenty of OnDemand, and HD, well, it would be nice to have, but my system will soon have about 110 channels of HD here. And, I love the 50 meg internet I have as well.
My prediction is that ATT will eventually stop doing U-Verse and eventually give up and realize that fiber to the home is their only option. The thing copper is already stretched way beyond belief. They won't have pairs available to everyone in the service print. That alone will piss customers off.. no one likes to "have to qualify" to see if service is there.. people got tired of that with DSL. At least with cable, if the line is outside, you "qualify".. ATT is going to have to step up to the plate. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Instead of Extending the reach FiberGuy, you need to backup and check your facts. Uverse service does have more channels,more hd, and is way faster channel guide and channel changing. Its instant! So Don't even go there or you will be exposed to everyone that has uverse. | |
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| | | | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Instead of Extending the reach I didn't see you back up your statements either. | |
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| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Me thinks you need to totally re-read my post.. and not look a fool by rushing to hit the REPLY button.. I never cable had more HD.. I said right now they don't, but that's about to change, at least in my system. The guide, I said, was not much faster on U-Verse.. As for more channels.. did I say it had more? or that people complain that there is already more than they really want? But, to what you said, it doesn't matter as U-Verse has what it has.. and some cable systems have more than U-Verse.. some have less.. cable isn't the same in every system nor the same by each provider...
And for the record, I've put my hands on U-Verse on one of my client's homes in Sacramento.. I'm aware of the product.
But, I'm glad you gave me a little humor after a very long day I had... I appreciate it. | |
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| | | | |  chambercPremium
join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
 ·Time Warner Cable
| said by jtorre69:FiberGuy, you need to backup and check your facts. Uverse service does have more channels,more hd, and is way faster channel guide and channel changing. Its instant! So Don't even go there or you will be exposed to everyone that has uverse. And only 2 HD streams to the house. We have 3 HD DVR's and can record 6 HD streams at once, all the while having 50 MB internet... I don't love TWC that much, but the limited number of HD streams to a house is a problem for U-Verse. | |
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| | | | | | "Faster Guide"
Hah that's like Apple bragging that you could take an iMac out of the box and put it together faster than taking a PC out of the box and putting it together. Whoooo Hooooo | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Instead of Extending the reach Well, faster doesn't do it justice. It's damn near instant. Same thing with most channel changes. | |
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| | | said by hottboiinnc:they should focus on turning up more of those damn VARD boxes they have put all over the place. QFT. There are boxes all over this town that have been sitting there for almost two YEARS and not doing a damn thing. They turned on service in a few neighborhoods back in early 2009...and then quit. No expansion whatsoever after that.
WTF? | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Instead of Extending the reach i have one in my neighborhood----well on the edge that services my city that is fully in operation as far as equipment and power running to it...but ATT will NOT put any customers on it. it just sits there drawing power and creating more emssions.
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
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| | |  Mr FelFlynn LivesPremium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY | Re: Instead of Extending the reach That seems to be the norm for most people waiting on uverse availability, myself included. | |
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| | | | | Yep, the thing is right down at the end of my block, and it's been there for almost two years. The tech who hooked up my DSL said he figured I could get service by fall of 2008. Yeah, right! Of course, I can't blame the guy, since he was just out working on lines. He told me that the best he could get at his house was dial-up.
One of these days, I'm going to find an AT&T tech around here and get a straight answer. If I manage that, I wonder if I can snag a front-page article for my miraculous feat. | |
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Reviews:
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| sooner or later FTTP will be the end stage of spending twice to overbuild VDSL bonded CPE once the DSLAM gets overutilized for it's customer base. Bell Atlantic learned the hard way when Cablevision & Time warner were just working with 6-15 megabits. Now the cable companies can deliver 50-100mbits and AT&T will be fiddling around with copper pairs to get the best old copper has to offer. This of course needs to be on a CASE BY CASE basis for the local project managers to analyze the cost effectiveness. Such a decision is easy based upon 90% + utilization and the length / cost of fttp deployment in the last mile(s) & GPONS which will need to be tied in. This is a no-brainer in states along the northeast such as Connecticut. | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: sooner or later said by tmc8080:FTTP will be the end stage of spending twice to overbuild VDSL bonded CPE once the DSLAM gets overutilized for it's customer base. Of course it will but U-Verse delays the inevitable. My guess is that top AT&T executives think they can get by with U-Verse until at least 2020 and may be hoping for 2030. Of course even if it's the latter (doubtful IMHO) they will have to by 2025 (most of the current executives will be retired by then) make the decision to either begin replacing most of their remaining copper pairs with PON technology or to the exit the wired "last mile" business to homes and small businesses entirely. They may end up doing much the same as Verizon has over the past five years, upgrading some markets to FTTP and exiting others but without the buyers who overpaid for Verizon's former landlines. | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: sooner or later within the next ~10 years landlines will be gone so there will be no reason to sell and or even support the network. internet maybe still landline based---hardwire...but as more and more technology comes out for wireless---WiMax - LTE (if and when it comes out) and the MSOs deploying wireless in their footprints. ATT will be stuck where they are at today. selling their iPhone and DSL networks. VZ will just be finishing up their FiOS network and ready to sell that off.
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
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| | |  heat84Bit Torrent Apologist
join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Re: sooner or later said by hottboiinnc:within the next ~10 years landlines will be gone so there will be no reason to sell and or even support the network. internet maybe still landline based---hardwire...but as more and more technology comes out for wireless---WiMax - LTE (if and when it comes out) and the MSOs deploying wireless in their footprints. ATT will be stuck where they are at today. selling their iPhone and DSL networks. VZ will just be finishing up their FiOS network and ready to sell that off. Verizon is stopping FIOS deployment except in NY. There was an article here about that last week.
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Bit Torrent is my DVR. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: sooner or later They have a few others they still have to build out as well. But they have loop holes that say they can stop. If you didn't get that from the front page. And i did read that with the NYC build out.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
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| |  davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC | Actually I think AT&T is quietly praying for a wireless miracle. They don't really want to spend money on copper and they don't want to spend money on fiber.
}Davoice | |
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| | | said by tmc8080:FTTP will be the end stage of spending twice to overbuild VDSL bonded CPE once the DSLAM gets overutilized for it's customer base...... It's all about the short term plays. Stockholders and fund managers are a fickle bunch and they don't live forever, so the pressure is on AT&T to spend less and increase margins. Neither of which is possible with FTTP. | |
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| | | The bonded pair VDSL utilizes an iNid which is like a ONU with how it interfaces with the customers wiring. With an iNid you have a CPE power pair, ethernet cable, coax, and POTS pair. Same for an ONU. Seems like it should make the home conversion a bit easier. | |
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| | front page on an unsubstantiated claim Is it really appropriate to make a front page story on single unsubstantiated claim by sole AT&T sales rep?
Where did AT&T say "they should be able to double the bandwidth"? In a presentation AT&T made in 2008, they were suggesting pair bonding would give them 37 Mbits/sec at 3,000 feet and 25 Mbits/sec at 4,000 feet.
"Some U-Verse customer gateways sync at 100Mbps, but at 1,400 feet from the DSLAM"? What is this based on? Nobody's U-verse Residential Gateway syncs at anything higher than 32 Mbits/sec. It may report a higher maximum sync but that's just an estimate--and at the maximum sync rate, the VDSL2 connection would likely be subject to high CRC error rates and link retrains. 100 Mbps at 1,400 feet also seems a HIGHLY unlikely reported maximum sync. I'm 1,500 feet and my maximum sync is 59-61 Mbps. | |
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1 edit | Re: front page on an unsubstantiated claim said by FattyAcid: 100 Mbps at 1,400 feet also seems a HIGHLY unlikely reported maximum sync. I'm 1,500 feet and my maximum sync is 59-61 Mbps. I'm in a neighborhood that's less than 10 years old, 950 wire ft from the VRAD with a Cat 5e home run to the gateway. My max sync is 58Mbps. No way someone is getting 100Mbps max sync at 1400ft unless they are on greenfield FTTP. | |
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| | | It's possible...with clean 22 AWG or Cat5, Dry DSL, 1 port, white noise, and a fast profile.
For interleaved profiles its more like 80 Mbps.
Add some splitters, splice points, a mix of 24 and 26 AWG and you get to a point in the 50s.
I still think the amount of bandwidth provided by ATT is adequate. However some users have a thirst for the holy grail (100 Mbps). Probably because they spend their lives on Torrents...LOL | |
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| davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC Reviews:
 ·Comporium
| We run VDSL2 in one of our conference center environments that had nothing but legacy CAT3 and CAT5 wiring throughout the facility when we took it over. Being a concrete wall and ceiling/floor facility it would have cost us a fortune to run fiber everywhere or re-run the existing CAT5. And wireless can't get through the walls.
I readily get 100mbps out of a single pair on all the CAT5 at ~1500ft w/ no errors, interleave or other problems.
(It's ~1500 feet from our facilities room out to the furthest end of the building. And there are a few intermediary cross connects along the way. Electrical feet is a close match to the linear feet in our case. I know this b/c we trialed a bunch of different PBXes to find a digital system that could run digital - non-IP - extensions at that length without doing weird stuff. The problem isn't the signal it's the PBX trying to send power that far to power the handset.)
The VDSL2 product we use provides QoS, VLANs and everything our regular ethernet switches do along w/ analog voice pass-through. Saved us a boatload of money re-wiring the facility. VDSL2 to the desktop FTW.
Supposedly it can do 100mbps at 1600ft on clean pairs but I'd have to run some extra wire feet to test that.
(AT&T U-verse uses VDSL2.) | |
|
bdon78I didn't do it
join:2009-05-18
Decatur, GA | Uverse "AT&T's decision to run FTTN instead of FTTH has remained a sticking point"
Not sure this statement is completely accurate. Aren't they using their current copper install base for VDSL deployment, but in new (green) areas they are deploying fiber... So, if you're lucky enough to be in a newly built community..
Just a fact that might need to be checked, i'm not completely sure of the answer myself | |
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| Chosen1
join:2001-08-05
Orange Park, FL
1 edit | Re: Uverse You are correct.
-Chosen1™ | |
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| | | said by bdon78:"AT&T's decision to run FTTN instead of FTTH has remained a sticking point" Not sure this statement is completely accurate. Aren't they using their current copper install base for VDSL deployment, but in new (green) areas they are deploying fiber... So, if you're lucky enough to be in a newly built community.. Just a fact that might need to be checked, i'm not completely sure of the answer myself They run FTTP in greenfield environments, but even then you're stuck with the same speeds and packages that the FTTN folks get. That may change in the future, but I doubt it. | |
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| | ricep5Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | Re: Uverse AT&T likes FTTN because using copper to the premise allows them to maintain their semi-regulated status and can qualify for certain govt. actions & subsidies. If they use FTTH, they would lose that regulated "advantage".
I have a AT&T (Bell South) fiber node sitting in my front yard as our dev is only 4 years old. But they ran 4 pair of copper to the house (I only use 2). Comcast ran two coax feeds all the way into the distro box from the node on the other side.
Strangely I don't qualify for UVerse with the node only 35 feet from the outside wall. Probably no VRAD cabinet nearby.
Talk to an older AT&T tech and they call UVerse "Video Centrex" as the remote and the box simply send a signal back to the CO which channel you want to watch.
Seems Rube Goldberg to me, but that is what happens when you make video run on a hybrid fiber/copper infrastructure designed to a 1880 era topology. | |
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| | | | | Re: Uverse 'Probably no VRAD cabinet nearby.'
The legacy FTTC can't handle Uverse. New equipment based on an IP platform needs to be installed.
It's in the testing phase. | |
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| Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| ATT was running fiber back when it was Ameritech/SBC in Michgain. There were several reports of this and many small towns had fiber replace the copper network.
But the cities that have this are limited and are stuck on the same speeds as the DSL customers are. Monore, MI is one area that has the fttp fiber from ATT.
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
|
| jandar
join:2006-01-16
Middleburg, FL | Too bad they totally ignore the dark fiber that many old bellsouth neighborhoods have.
My house was built in 2002-2003, dark fiber still under my driveway.
There is a VRAD 1600 feet away that is powered on but not working nor provisioned for uverse. | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Uverse That's the problem of ATT. BS put all that dark fiber in especially for the IFIL but ATT refuses to do anything with it. They just want DSL and thats it.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
|
Chosen1
join:2001-08-05
Orange Park, FL | Not quite "as the crow flies" This guy does realize that his copper doesn't necessarily run in a straight line from the VRAD to his driveway, right? What he thinks is 3600' may be much longer (certainly no shorter) and therefore produce less-than-ideal results.
-Chosen1™
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If I use my connection to check 1 email the entire month and nothing else, I don't see AT&T giving me "rollover bandwidth". So I'm damn sure gonna use it to the fullest extent I PAY FOR!! | |
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| | comcast 50mb I know they say Comcast 50mbit is available at 80%, but is this something you need to call and ask for? When I log in, it only lets me choice 12mb or 16mb connections. I might be part of those 20% left out. | |
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| | | Re: comcast 50mb Same here. I guess our areas haven't had DOCSIS 3.0 tolled out yet.  | |
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| kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: i'd be happy We use DSL extenders at work, which are basically point-to-point DSL modems, and we found that if we put more than one extender on a multi-pair cable, they have enough cross talk to interfere with each other and they will automatically throttle back to lower speeds. | |
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| |  FBGuyyippee ki yayPremium
join:2005-03-19 | Re: i'd be happy so is it just the fact that the lines are unshielded that causes the crosstalk?
sounds like a good reason to scrap copper and move to fiber.
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sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps | |
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| | | kreggo
join:2003-03-10
Pearland, TX | Re: i'd be happy That's the decision we made at work too. We're pulling fiber now to replace the DSL extender circuits in our plants. | |
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| | 3 HD / 1 Sd is joke at least have 4 HD! 3 HD / 1 Sd is joke at least have 4 HD! and just wait for that new 5+ tuner directv box to come out. | |
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|
nishiko7Premium
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
| It would seem at&t has plenty of room to run with copper ... as per this recent thread on BBR/DSLR I started:
»Is AT&T investigating use of Vectored VDSL or cuPON?
Not to say fiber wouldn't be better (though more costly) or to further debate that dead horse.
Just wanted to make sure people knew twisted pair can already deliver up to 100 Mbps at 3000 feet lengths. So that means probably around 70 Mbps of average stable sync for most people at 3K. Whether Big T (and maybe Qwest, others) decide to go that route is another story. If at&t, it would require a modest investment to their current VDSL2 architecture (a natural evolution to it).
Even counting the video load of up to 4 HD streams, I think that gets them by for at least 5-10 years for the speeds MOST people will WANT TO PAY FOR. Price matters too, and I doubt MOST people will want to pay for more than about a 40/5 Mbps Internet connection for some time.
FTTH is better, and is the ultimate end game, but doing it opportunistically over time and in stages may make some sense from a financial perspective, especially when you're talking about this kind of scale.
In this discussion, I almost sound like an industry wonk, but I'm in no way tied to any of the telcos or cables, and FULLY support net neutrality, open access, etc (though I won't hold my breath for ever having open access back again). I was devastated with the recent Comcast ruling, and hope the FCC can dust itself off and move forward aggressively.
What I AM is just fascinated by the technology involved in cramming so much data over networks never originally envisioned to handle it. I just don't want copper to be sold short nor that investment unnecessarily wasted. Ultimately, all we really care about is: can we get the speeds we need to accomplish the things we want to. Are the speeds evolving fast enough to foster innovation. Those types of questions. How the bandwidth is delivered should be mostly of no consequence to the end user it would seem. | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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| | still waiting [sarcastic laugh] hahahahaha [\sarcastic laugh]
It's 2010 and I'm still waiting for AT&T to get the plain old 1.5meg ADSL to my part of Connecticut that they said would be done by 2000. | |
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|  PashuneCaps stifle innovationPremium
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS
·Vonage
·CableOne
| Re: still waiting said by darthur2000:[sarcastic laugh] hahahahaha [\sarcastic laugh] It's 2010 and I'm still waiting for AT&T to get the plain old 1.5meg ADSL to my part of Connecticut that they said would be done by 2000. Heh. I can get up to 1.5 mbit DSL here, but the error rates and line attenuation was so high that it was unusable for streaming video half the time. AT&T still has no VRAD U-verse box anywhere in my town that I can find.
I love my 5 mbit cable (with no monthly caps!) for that reason. I'd never trade it for anything in the e-world unless someone gave me FiOS.
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ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit | |
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moes
join:2009-11-15
Indianapolis, IN Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
| dsl wee Guess that us DSL users are a dying breed anymore. They up speeds and other things for uverse but leave us dsl customers to suffer. also before anybody say's "well you can pay for the speed" ok sure I can but why should I if there giving free upgrades to there uverse customers? We're is mine the loyal customer who had had dsl since 99? | |
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| | moes
join:2009-11-15
Indianapolis, IN Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
| Re: dsl wee I was just annoyed yesterday because of the people next door getting a free boost on there speed while me having dsl is stuck with the same speed and paying a tad bit more because of there price increase. Price increase should equal better speeds. Seems same price on uverse is more speed. I am possibly not making much since or even headway. just frustrated. | |
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 gballMaster YodaPremium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN | cool This is good news for the 1000 users who can get UVERSE.
The rest of us well we will just have to look at all the pretty boxes around that they aren't doing anything with. | |
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| | No news yet We haven't heard anything about pair bonding yet, which I'm sure we would have.
Also when conditioning was going on, we were committing 1 pair to each house not 2 (P commits), sometimes the terminal we would work on called for S commits (spare) but not all the time. So I don't know how much work they would have to go back and do to commit a second pair to a house.
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| teletech
join:2009-06-01
Port Saint Lucie, FL | Re: No news yet Here in florida we have been conditioning additional pairs from the beginning deployment. Employees were asked last week if they wanted to trial the pair bonding, but only if we lived in neighborhoods that had uverse available and were unable to get it because of distance limitations. | |
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| |
1 edit | Re: No news yet When did you guys begin conditioning? we started in mid 2007 in Madison and att let us go in Oct 2008. I&M has been finishing up the conditioning though. Who knows, maybe they changed it after we got let go and some areas here do have spare pairs.
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| | |  AMDUSERPremium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
kudos:1
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: No news yet Locally, quite a few residence locations do not have the second pair... like my house. [That pair is not in use, as I have TWC cable VoIP.] My neighbor across the street is the cutoff for who can / can't get service.
AT&T has conditioned the lines for my neighborhood however, as that is the only reason the 6 Meg DSL became available when it used to be only the 768k DSL was available. | |
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 TMMerlinThe Devil made me do it
join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
·EarthLink
·AT&T U-Verse
| Wow .. bonded bridge taps !! This will drive customers crazy !
Will the wireline folks get off their Arses and actually get rid of ALL bridge taps on BOTH pairs ...[LMAO .. I think not ..it's a big deal for them to clean up one pair, let alone have to track down taps on two pairs].
Unless your installer relentlessly prods the wireline folks, bonded pairs will be a joke. It took my installer 5-days and three trips out by the wireline folks to track down and get rid of the 3-bridge taps.
I guess the Golden Rule is only 1-bridge Tap fix per day.. making sure of having ample time so as not to loose valueable time sleeping in the service van or having coffee and donuts !
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Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend. | |
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| | | Re: Wow .. bonded bridge taps !! I was surprised that the bridge tap was removed within a couple hours of my U-Verse install. Same day, quickly taken care of.
Certainly not everyone's experience, but ATT so far has shown superior customer service and responsiveness. | |
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