 
Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO
 ·Cox HSI
| This is why... ...you don't want your government legislating how broadband service providers can and cannot do business.
The concept of "Net Neutrality" may appear on the surface to be a benevolent act on the part of a government for the betterment of all, but in the end, like most things the government gets involved in, it will just end up being a thinly guised method for the government to promote their own agenda and favor their friends, stifling competition and choice. | |
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FicmanS
Premium
join:2005-01-11
Brownsburg, IN
clubs: | Re: This is why... Big brother wants his cut... | |
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peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC
1 edit | Re: This is why... In some cases it's not even big brother. It can be the cousin, the uncle, the nephew or a friend of the country's leader that owns the existing long-distance or cell phone service. If a new comer starts to change the rules of the game, the relatives of the leader start to complain to him... and apparently he listens. | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by Topmounter  :...you don't want your government legislating how broadband service providers can and cannot do business. The concept of "Net Neutrality" may appear on the surface to be a benevolent act on the part of a government for the betterment of all, but in the end, like most things the government gets involved in, it will just end up being a thinly guised method for the government to promote their own agenda and favor their friends, stifling competition and choice. Dude take a look at how the government wanted to add a net tax last year or maybe a bit before.
They want to take money from as many places as possible. It's nothing to do with net neutrality.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by Topmounter :...you don't want your government legislating how broadband service providers can and cannot do business. Uh, no... This would be an example of why you don't want government in the position of being a competitor within a given service space.
said by Topmounter :The concept of "Net Neutrality" may appear on the surface to be a benevolent act on the part of a government for the betterment of all, but in the end, like most things the government gets involved in, it will just end up being a thinly guised method for the government to promote their own agenda and favor their friends, stifling competition and choice. And you get this from the topic at hand, how, exactly? Sounds like you're looking for any opportunity you can find to push your own bias, whether it's relevant or not.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: This is why... Exactly HOW will net neutrality hurt the consumer. If I'm the consumer, I want an INTERNET CONNECTION. That's what net neutrality enforces. It FORCES the companies to provide an 'internet connection', not an AOL connection. If I wanted AOL's walled garden, I'd sign up for AOL.
Net Neutrality isn't just a good idea, it's a REQUIRED IDEA. If we don't stop the megacorps from imposing 'their' vision of what the internet is, we won't have the googles, the yahoo's, the utubes of the world. We won't have bittorrent. We won't have Vonage. We won't have ANY of the features that make the internet what it is today. The megacorp has one objective, and that's to rape the consumer for as much as possible, while providing the lowest level of service possible, for the highest price possible. If we don't have net netrality, plan on seeing an extra charge on your bill if you visit google. Don't kid yourselves, the executives of Verizon, AT&T, SBC, etc all want to charge MORE for LESS. They even state it in their press releases.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
| If they don't pay they don't play. India is a country and can pass whatever law they want. If Skype doesn't like, so???
If you don't think taxes are going to hit VOIP in the USA, you're nuts. I have a problem paying a real phone company so people can get cheap service with a VOIP like Vonage. I'm subsiziding their calls somewhere.  | |
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lakino
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Campbell, CA
| said by Topmounter :...you don't want your government legislating how broadband service providers can and cannot do business. The concept of "Net Neutrality" may appear on the surface to be a benevolent act on the part of a government for the betterment of all, but in the end, like most things the government gets involved in, it will just end up being a thinly guised method for the government to promote their own agenda and favor their friends, stifling competition and choice. BS! Net Neutrality has nothing do with any government banning voip or Skype.
If anyone tries to project the banning of anything on the net as advocacy of "net neutrality" they are an out and out propagandist. BS!
Yes to Net Neutrality! No to the banning of Voip or Skype!
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In an uncertain world, there is absolutely no security in banding together. -- Robert X. Cringely | |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO
·Cox HSI
| Re: This is why... Very simply, Net neutrality is government regulation of the Internet. It may start innocent enough, but this is a Pandora's box that you do not want to open.
If there is only 1 ISP available, then I don't have a problem with some sort of "Net Neutrality" regulation applying.
I want multiple providers competing for my business. There is no incentive to enter the market and compete if the government requires you to sell the same vanilla service as the incumbent. | |
| IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
| When is a ban a ban? Want to bet that the Indian Gvt will now have to spend money trying to combat "work arounds". So from no revenue, they will go to a cost center.
They will also find that they are upsetting many multinational companies wwhich have moved large operations into India and use VoIP as their communications tool.
There is always unintended consequences of such actions...... | |
| | BladeMcCool
join:2006-10-02
Victoria, BC | Re: When is a ban a ban? The large companies will pay the fees ... it will save them money in red-tape avoidance. And it will still be cheaper for them to run the call centers out of Bangalore or wherever. | |
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phriday613
Your Avatar Is Nice... For Me To Poop On
Premium
join:2002-02-06
Eastchester, NY
clubs: | Re: When is a ban a ban? yeah really, I wonder how this will affect call centers located in India? | |
| | | | jervin123
join:2005-04-14
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: When is a ban a ban? Most of the call centers use "International Private Lines" that connect with the pbx's for outbound calls of what ever company. They have gone totally down before also check this link out
»www.crmbuyer.com/story/36658.html | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Taxes! A 12% "service tax" and a 6% "VOIP revenue sharing fee??"
Wow! I didn't know the Democrats also got elected in India!
Adam | |
| | rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL
1 edit | Re: Taxes! What, do they think they are Chicago or something?
To help you keep the cost of taxes in perspective, I get a 19% discount on my cell phone bill through my little bro's employer. My plan is advertised at $35 a month. With the 19% discount my monthly bill is .... tada, $35 a month. Or to put it another way, the effective tax rate for cell phones here is 19%. | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| Actually.. It sounds like you are using Verizon math! (see recent article)
So 19% off of $35 is $28.35.
The difference between $35 and $28.35 is $6.65.
$6.65 rounds to 23.5% of 28.35.
So the effective taxes on your bill is actually almost 24%!
Oh the fun you can have with numbers! | |
| | | | rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | Re: Actually.. All right, so I do math like an Enron accountant. Thanks for the heads up on my error. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| India is... ... a ridiculous place, a hypocrisy-gone-wild place, this story is just another example.
My favorite story is when they lure you to outsource your operations or bring their staff here, mostly to cheap call centers and such (which is absolutely fine) but at the same time you cannot just go there and get a job, it's close to impossible because you'd be obviously better choice for many US and Western companies over there... free competition? Not so much, that's not their style, I don't know any Western HR company with available managerial workforce over there... | |
| | ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
·RCN CABLE
| Re: India is... said by kamm :... a ridiculous place, a hypocrisy-gone-wild place, this story is just another example... It is so true, this place is insane. No company should do any business there. You name something bad and they have it at the extreme. Worse judicial system(you could wait 5 to 10 years before your case comes to trial), some the worst cases of torture, the caste system (far worse than any racism here in America, except for the deep south during & after slavery), plus they have weapons of mass destruction. And we attacked Saadam,lol. I hope people there find a backdoor to keep on using what they want. | |
| | | | JerryTongue
join:2003-04-01
Auburn, WA
| what cracks me up what I find funny is skype was around before all these ISP's thought about VOIP. I used skype for gaming for some time, then because it worked so well for me it became a way for me like others used MSN messenger. I dont see how a ISP can now block it just because they want to now charge you for something that was free. You can say it's there line and they can control what goes over it but I see it as I pay for the Bandwidth and they shouldnt tell me how I use it unless I am running a server or something. Next they will be telling us we cant use hotmail anymore and we have to pay to read mail through there web site, and we now have to use there site as our home page, not what we choose. They all seem to be offering things that have been around for awhile that were free already. Also skype uses less Bandwidth than a regular phone, was cheaper than a regular phone and you could call all over the USA and Canada for free, now they want to stop you from using Skype and SELL you there VOIP. I wish so bad they used something in VOIP that came from skype and they could sue them for the use of it.. hahaha | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Re: Pull the plug Huh? | |
| | IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
1 edit | Yes this is the real unintened consequence.
The Indian Gvt is raising the cost of muultinationals doing business in India. They moved there in the first place because it was Safe, because there is an excellent educated workforce and because it's relatively inexpensive. At safe many companies were surprised to see the political bombings of late so now they don't consider India as safe as they once did, the educated workforce still exists but few are fooled by fake accents anymore and at inexpensive the costs are rising very very quickly. Instead of working to cap the costs the Indian Gvt is getting greedy, IMHO and looking for short term revenues.
All this service business moved from other location(s) to India and quite quickly. It can and will move away from India to other locations (including the USA) just as quickly. That would be a social disaster for the burgeoning middle class in India.
I would be interested to hear informed comments about the rising cost structure of multinationals doing busiensss in Inda and the rateof labor cost increases, b4 one considers new taxes even. | |
| | | zingwing
join:2007-01-20
Chandigarh
| Re: Pull the plug You people are so ill informed about the whole world including India - no wonder all your jobs are moving here. Get real guys - SKYPE itself charges a Value Added Tax to all users in EU so where is the problem of the Indian Govt. requiring it to pay sales and other taxes. We use this money for building our education and primary healthcare infrastructure. Ask Intel/Microsoft/Amex/McKInsey & Co/IBM/GE/Texas Instruments/MOtorola/Nokia/Samsung/SUN as to why they have reasearch and development centres in India. Its not about cheap call centres and BPO. Read "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman and you will get the picture. Don't fool yourselves by living in opaque cocoons. | |
| The WalL
join:2004-08-14
Aurora, IL
| Read the Topic first.... Oh jeez....this is a bunch of sheep who have resonded based on the topic posted.
Yes, Govt of India wants to charge VOIP providers 12% + 6% fee for SELLING minutes to companies in INDIA that are USING those VOIP services.
Since when did charging sales tax becomg illegal anywhere? Heck, most states in the US charge sales tax to a company (even though its not based in that state) if someone in their state has an order shipped to them.
Now, in India, ISPs provide VOIP service and have to provide the govt details of every call made. Companies such as Skype are not registered. and do not furnish the list. They do not pay taxes to GoI for the revenue they are earning from Indian operations.
The govt is just now saying, 'hey we are losing money from sales taxes that we should have been paid'. It levels the playing field for ISPs as well. | |
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Dr Demento
I Vant Blud
join:2002-01-02
Denville, NJ
| Re: Read the Topic first.... You got a good point with India. Even though it this is probably gonna deal a serious blow on how many people there will be able to afford having some technology to talk long distance over.
But as for Lebanon, like every other Arab country probably wants to ban because its Israeli based technology. I guess they would even go through the trouble to kill the potential of the wireless carriers there. Watch out, the Hagana might be listening.  | |
| robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
 ·Cox VOIP
| Maybe now Maybe now American companies will bring back tech support back to the states? It's getting more and more expensive to put jobs overseas.
Bring back American jobs to the American people and not to some country where we have a hell of a time understanding them. Maybe bring back a dying breed called the middle class.
Rob
--
Looking for something different to listen to? »www.rfdradio.info is your answer! | |
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jack27
@charter.com
1 edit |  robertfl
The reason our American Companies go to oplaces like India is for two thing, MONEY and Brains!! Last time I checked we are based on capitalism. Global Trade is inevitable, the only way we Americans can remain on top is to have a even better educational system, which can be used to make better skilled workers. I work for one of these fortune 500 companies. Lets say you bought a laptop from an D***, one of the reasons they were able to offer you that price was because of the call center based offshore. Unless you would not have cared about at least a $500 increase on your laptop for the USA based tech support, which I wuld not want to pay!! Keep voting democrat, I am sure their socialistic ways will force companies to bring jobs back at a cost to the general consumer, offcourse not all democrats want this. At the rate we are going, If our educational system isn't able to compete globally, We'll be like Rome, China and India with their sheer mass of people/brain power will overtake us. | |
| SkypeMe
join:2006-12-11
San Jose, CA
| India Skype Decision Shortsighted India and other governments looking to ban Skype and other VoIP should take a long hard look at more than the way they collect tax revenues. While I can certainly understand why legislatures would want to ban this "tax bypass", they should look more at the big picture.
Skype enables free communication around the world. Businesses are embracing Skype at a very rapid pace. When you cut the lines of communication, you're ultimately weakening your economy. I'd hope that governments like India would find new ways to collect taxes, while fostering their presence in the global economy.
To learn more about Skype for Business check out my blog: »skype4biz.blogspot.com
Happy Skypeing | |
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Alas
@comcast.net
| Re: India Skype Decision Shortsighted Good point, but India just does not get it. It will never get it. It has one foot in the 12th century (and that is being generous) and the other in 20th century (not 21st).
They are so happy they have a country that they don't really care about progress.
You are talking about a group of people who might as well be from another planet. Logic and good business sense does not exist.
...and they think they are some sort of power - pasha.
Go back to competing with the Pakistan and the Arab world, at least that way you might feel you are doing something competitive.
If India went IP all the way they could skip the mistakes we made. In stead of taxes they should look to compete; why not wire the entire country for IP - voice, video, data. Make the money from providing wireless/wireline broadband. Then use your so called tech talent to actual write IP based applications (anybody know any real Indian software apps? not me!. This would make sense; but India is happy being the coolies of the world - for now the information coolies ....
Move to Brazil.... | |
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India Bans Skype, Other VoIP Providers
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