 
punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs: | Wifi Terrorists all we need is Wifi Terrorists | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18 | Re: Wifi Terrorists don't worry, the wifi is probably monitored but don't let the terrorists know because if they know they'll start using the super secret wifi when they fly and we'll be screwed. | |
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| | TopoX
join:2004-06-01
Miami, FL | Re: Wifi Terrorists they will stop being suicidable and they will start scratching thir @ss from home.... | |
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gorbonaghif
@telus.net
| Re: Wifi Terrorists said by TopoX  :they will stop being suicidable and they will start scratching thir @ss from home.... LOL... well we are in the new millennium, what do you expect? LOL  | |
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BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| New Questions about remote control and 9-11
By Jerry Russell
British aeronautical engineer Joe Vialls claims that all 757 and 767 aircraft are equipped with computerized remote flight control systems for the purposes of rescuing the planes from attempted hijackings. If this were true, it would raise some very interesting questions. On the one hand, if the systems were used to control the aircraft and pilot them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, then who was at the controls? How did they get access to the secret codes?
But on the other hand: if these systems were on the aircraft, and they were not compromised by some enemy trick of espionage, then why weren't they used on September 11 to save the four ill-fated flights? »www.911-strike.com/remote.htm | |
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RangerTX
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| Cool This sounds cool,i would love to take control of airplane while i am on 16 or 18 hours flight. Would not do anything stupid, just maybe increase speed of airplane a little so we get to the final destination faster
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet | |
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sycocowz
join:2002-06-13
Ottsville, PA
edit:
January 6th, @10:52PM
| Re: Cool ...and become less fuel efficient, use more gas, and further contribute to global warming? | |
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RangerTX
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: Cool said by sycocowz :...and become less fuel efficient, use more gas, and further contribute to global warming? All issue which do not concern me | |
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Majestik
World Traveler
Premium
join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK
clubs: 
| Re: Cool said by RangerTX :said by sycocowz :...and become less fuel efficient, use more gas, and further contribute to global warming? All issue which do not concern me You won't make it across the pond.
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The adventure continues......2007 so far ....Rio de Janeiro,Rome,Acapulco,Switzerland,Santiago,Chile...Dec-Hong Kong,Brazil,Switzerland(now)......... | |
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RangerTX
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: Cool said by KrK :said by RangerTX :All issue which do not concern me How about running out of fuel early and crashing. Would that be fun? Let me guess--- you wouldn't be concerned. No i would, but guess we would just have to make an emergency landing and refuel | |
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caddyroger
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Graham, WA
 ·Comcast
edit:
January 7th, @04:05AM
| Re: Cool said by RangerTX :said by KrK :said by RangerTX :All issue which do not concern me How about running out of fuel early and crashing. Would that be fun? Let me guess--- you wouldn't be concerned. No i would, but guess we would just have to make an emergency landing and refuel You got a real brain. I didn't know planes could land on water and refuel.
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Caddy | |
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| | | | | | rgillis70
Premium
join:2002-12-30
Herndon, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Cool Of course they can.
Have not you seen the information card in the seat pocket? It clearly shows the plane having made a safe landing and floating along in the water while everyone slowly gets out of the plane. 
The tanker will be along any minute for the refueling. | |
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| | | | | yeahian1
join:2007-07-31
Altadena, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| said by RangerTX :said by KrK :said by RangerTX :All issue which do not concern me How about running out of fuel early and crashing. Would that be fun? Let me guess--- you wouldn't be concerned. No i would, but guess we would just have to make an emergency landing and refuel Can no one take a joke or what? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Trying to Start a Panic? quote:
Analysts point out that the system that provides the Wi-Fi connectivity in the plane is directly connected to the plane’s communications and control systems.
Is this statement even remotely true? It was my understanding that the "vital functions" of a commercial aircraft are physically separated from any other functionality that isn't vital to the operation of the plane. For example, the plane should not be disabled should the air conditioner cease to work, etc.
I seriously doubt that Boeing or any other aircraft company would design an in-flight broadband system that would have any connections whatsoever into the vital functions of the aircraft.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Trying to Start a Panic? said by pnh102 :I seriously doubt that Boeing or any other aircraft company would design an in-flight broadband system that would have any connections whatsoever into the vital functions of the aircraft. Hate to sound pessimistic, but I wouldn't doubt it! | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
January 6th, @03:33PM
| said by pnh102 : I seriously doubt that Boeing or any other aircraft company would design an in-flight broadband system that would have any connections whatsoever into the vital functions of the aircraft. Well, according to the news story and their quoting Boeing spokesperson, that is exactly what they did.
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/01/dreamliner_security
Boeing said it's aware of the issue and has designed a solution it will test shortly. FAA document spelling out the problem:
»cryptome.org/faa010208.htm
The digital systems architecture for the 787 consists of several
networks connected by electronics and embedded software. This proposed
network architecture is used for a diverse set of functions, including
the following:
1. Flight-safety-related control and navigation and required
systems (Aircraft Control Domain).
2. Airline business and administrative support (Airline Information
Domain).
3. Passenger entertainment, information, and Internet services
(Passenger Information and Entertainment Domain).
The proposed architecture of the 787 is different from that of
existing production (and retrofitted) airplanes. It allows new kinds of
passenger connectivity to previously isolated data networks connected
to systems that perform functions required for the safe operation of
the airplane. Because of this new passenger connectivity, the proposed
data network design and integration may result in security
vulnerabilities from intentional or unintentional corruption of data
and systems critical to the safety and maintenance of the airplane. The
existing regulations and guidance material did not anticipate this type
of system architecture or electronic access to aircraft systems that
provide flight critical functions. Furthermore, 14 CFR regulations and
current system safety assessment policy and techniques do not address
potential security vulnerabilities that could be caused by unauthorized
access to aircraft data buses and servers. Therefore, special
conditions are imposed to ensure that security, integrity, and
availability of the aircraft systems and data networks are not
compromised by certain wired or wireless electronic connections between
airplane data buses and networks. Simple translation: The planes redundant data bus is shared by multiple subsystems with the potential for interaction between the 3 main subsystems.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Trying to Start a Panic? Maybe we can hire these guys to hook up WiFi and Internet access to all our missile silos....  | |
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| | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit:
January 7th, @06:28AM
| said by TK Junk Mail :Simple translation: The planes redundant data bus is shared by multiple subsystems with the potential for interaction between the 3 main subsystems. quote:
All your plane are belong to us!
Opening cut scene from the European version of Zero Wing
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA | sheesh
if they are connected, then the designers are idiots. | |
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StingerMoD
join:2002-10-16
Calgary, AB | Re: sheesh Anybody say recall? | |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | stupid Now whenever I hear someone typing/pecking rapidly into their laptop, I will have to wonder if the plane will go into a death dive in the next 2 seconds. | |
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| Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA
| Re: stupid "I'm on ur plane, hakin ur wifi"
Sorry, couldn't resist Tthough whoever decided to put any sort of connection to the vital parts of a plane to the Wifi should be fired immediately. Why hire and keep people with such stupidity? | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
edit:
January 6th, @06:06PM
| Re: stupid said by Jonbo298 :"I'm on ur plane, hakin ur wifi" Sorry, couldn't resist Tthough whoever decided to put any sort of connection to the vital parts of a plane to the Wifi should be fired immediately. Why hire and keep people with such stupidity? Because they have CS degrees from 3rd world countries that forbid individual thought in society.  | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | dumb stupid designers! | |
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n3td3v
@virginmedia.com
| its supposed to be hacked, BY THE FEDS But the whole point was so the feds could take control of the plane
from the ground if it were hi jacked. If you look on the internet
there are articles about the feds wanted to be able to take control of
an aircraft from the ground if its reported its been hi jacked by
terrorists, so its the FAA who is putting national security at risk by
making this information public. Why would you tell the public the
technical specification of an aircraft, is that not tipping off the
bad guys? The good guys the feds have been trying to get aircraft like
this for a long time, but it was supposed to be secret that the feds
are able to take over an aircraft from the ground to stop terrorists
from doing another 9/11. Sure we need to address this issue so un
authorised folks can't take control of the aircraft, but I don't think
any of this should of been made public for security reasons, this
could of all of been sorted out behind closed doors. | |
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rcpilot123
@verizon.net
| Re: its supposed to be hacked, BY THE FEDS Like hell it is. If this back-door way to take control of an airliner existed, hijackers would not even have to come on board the plane, they could do so from the comfort of their own bunker.
No pilot would ever fly a plane knowing that their commands could be countermanded by someone on the ground!
As for keeping a remote-control override to flight controls secret, chances of that are slim to none. Even a simple hidden transponder trick the feds used to track planes suspected of drug smuggling years ago was discovered and exposed. | |
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capecoddah
join:2005-03-18
Yarmouth Port, MA
| Too Cool! The ULTIMATE in next generation flight sim. After level 5 you actually get to land the plane !!! Kewl if it had bombs / guns / missles
I HIGHLY doubt any of this... Like hacking another computer because you share the same power outlet. | |
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theyipper
join:2001-01-18
Oakland, CA
edit:
January 6th, @03:51PM
| no longer a virtual simulation The next version of Microsoft Flight Simulator will allow you to control a real plane! Whoo-hoo!
edit: 1-minute late. | |
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mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| Very Scary This is the kind of situation that arises because the general populace does not understand how vulnerable networked computers are. They have been led to believe that if they run a software firewall, or a $50 Linksys router on their networks, they are safe from network intrusions. Sure, they are now safe from the neighborhood kids, but not from skilled attackers, or attackers with custom-designed software. That type of software is openly for sale in the seedier parts of the internet, and is obviously readily available to organized terrorists.
I spent 9 years designing aircraft, and 15 designing spacecraft. The design engineers do not know more about network security than the average joe. It is not their specialty. These systems must be evaluated by network security experts, and must not rely on any type of software firewall. I left aerospace 2 years ago, and have studied network security for every waking minute since. The main thing I have learned is that it would take me many more years to even hope to slow down a dedicated, skilled attacker. Neither the FAA, nor any group of aircraft designers knows that, because it takes a lot more time to dedicate to network security to even learn how difficult it is to protect a network. The refusal to share details with security experts indicates a reliance on security by obscurity, which as the saying goes, is no security at all.
This article sent chills up my spine. Hopefully, more educated heads will prevail, and the systems will be completely separated. | |
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ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast Formerly ..
 ·AT&T CallVantage
·AT&T Southeast
| 777 Has Always Had It The Boeing 777 also has an internal network running flight grade Unix controllers based on the Intel 80486SX. The maintenance bus and flight bus and entertainment controllers all share the same network.
The physical interconnect for the 787 is probably in the communications bay where they mux the Wifi requests onto the service channel supporting the online avionics reporting. My supposition is that its just a VPN backhaul to a ground based gateway.
I wouldn't worry about a single plane, I would be worried about multiple planes, if someone hacks into the backhaul for the service and avionics reporting. | |
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Jameson
1010
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs: | uh VLANs people VLANs! Or why not just create two separate networks? | |
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iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
Premium
join:2006-07-13
Hoover, AL | look mommy Look mommy I am controlling the plan from my MacBook! haha
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I get 29 MPG in my Toyota Highlander Hybrid! | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| I will not be flying on one. Unless the networks are confirmed to be completely physically seperate including any network control of power systems powering each network.
Even if they share a switch with seperate vlan's a maliciously crafted packet could crash the switch or even the "Software Firewalls" involved as well. I've worked in networking since the early 90's and I've seen it all.
I'll be damned if I'm going to die by broadcast storm.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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| zerog
join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX | Re: I will not be flying on one. Can you say DDoF ? | |
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LookMaNoHands
@direcpc.com | Could be a good movie... Don't know how realistic the "hacked airplane" scenario is, but it should make for an exciting Jerry Bruckheimer movie! | |
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wruckman
Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25
Northwood, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| People being people What kind of moron would run airplane systems with compatibility to public wifi. No way! For one thing, it is on different radio frequencies. Aviation dedicated frequencies verses public allocated frequencies.
And one more thing, use encryption for everything! Use AES 256 encryption at a minimum and vpn your communications through it.. | |
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koam
Democrat 4 McCainPalin -Country First.
Premium
join:2000-08-16
Pink Pecker
clubs: | would you log onto your bank or stock accounts on wireless on a flight to China or Russia? | |
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Edward1978
join:2007-07-23
De Soto, IL | directly connected to the plane146;s communications and control Who came up with thay idea, god there is a idiot born every second. | |
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| NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: directly connected to the plane146;s communications and cont said by Edward1978 :Who came up with thay idea, god there is a idiot born every second. quote:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| eljay001
join:2004-03-17
South Portland, ME | Probably the same guy at Diebold that thought it would be a good idea to store votes in an Access database.
Maybe this design was farmed out to a contractor. Low bid. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | Bandwidth issues What if someone is running a P2P app and doesn't leave enough bandwidth for the plane to fly.
LOL. | |
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In-Flight Broadband Susceptible to Hacking
·.jpg "22000 bytes")