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Ikanos Unveils 100 Mbps DSL You Probably Won't Ever See
Distance constrained and upgrade-phobic market bound
by Karl Bode Tuesday 26-Oct-2010 tags: dsl · business · alternatives · bandwidth
As we noted yesterday, we're seeing a flood of new DSL products being hyped by hardware vendors that promise faster speeds at longer loop lenths. The vendors are taking aim at the nation's telcos, who are slowly losing customers to faster cable alternatives (in markets they actually see competition), and a select few of which are not coincidentally flush with new broadband stimulus funds. Huawei, Alcatel Lucent and Nokia are all promising speeds upwards of 800 Mbps over multiple pair.

Ikanos has joined the "please don't let DSL be dead" party this week in a more modest fashion, promoting new NodeScale Vectoring DSL technology they claim is capable of delivering 100 Mbps downstream via DSL. The technology "will deliver the performance of fiber at one-tenth the cost of fiber-to-the-home," claims the company in a press statement. As with the other solutions noted above, the technology is primarily aimed at reducing line noise inherent in VDSL and the bonding of multiple pair:

Ikanos' NodeScale Vectoring technology analyzes the crosstalk and interference environment in real time and creates a unique set of compensation signals that effectively eliminates both. In fact, NodeScale Vectoring cancels noise across an entire network node from 192 to 384 ports or more, meeting the deployment requirements of the world's leading service providers.

While lab tests of faster DSL technology are well and good, most of this technology will take years to leave the lab, requires multiple pair the average home may not have, and like all DSL -- will remain highly distance constrained -- making it all-but-useless for the millions of U.S. residents on long loop lenths.

More importantly perhaps is the question of who exactly will deploy this technology in a U.S. market where most telcos have frozen network upgrade ambitions. Most of these DSL technologies require replacing line cards or DSLAMs, something a cash-strapped telco dealing with eroding landline revenues isn't going to do -- lest they upset investors only interested in immediate returns. Given the lack of competition in many markets, many telcos are instead just pretending they're cutting edge -- but in reality have every intention of leaving millions of DSL customers on last-generation DSL for many, many years.

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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America

not worth it

to shove an elephant through a straw.

One has to wonder - could money spent on such research have been better spent on actually deploying something that works, such as coax, or fiber, or both?
cramer

join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:7

Re: not worth it

Yes, however, the people doing the research aren't the ones who need to run the fiber.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: not worth it

Exactly!
Since it isn't available - who cares.

If it 'was' available, and as cheap or cheaper (for me ) than Cable or Uverse, then I'd use it.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Schaumburg, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
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1 edit
COAX?

No, coax loses signal at longer distance too, it's just more resistant to noise (thanks to shield) so it can run little longer with more bandwidth. But I had a real world experience, where just putting too many feet in house with coax inside my house made my cable modem not picking/sending up enough signal. So instead I used shorter coax cable and longer UTP Ethernet to my router.

Pashune
Caps stifle innovation
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS

Re: not worth it

How lengthy was your coax?!

I would have to run at least an extra 300 ft. of RG6 or so to my modem before I started having signal loss problems, assuming 16 db loss at that distance.

Hm, maybe you have a lengthy drop or you're at the end of the tap or something else.
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chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Schaumburg, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
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·T-Mobile US

Re: not worth it

yeah it was very long cable which my family that watched tv used it to connect to set up box and hid behind counter. I used two-way spliter and another standard long cable from comcast kit box (that can go through the whole living room). But that very first long cable could run through multiple rooms.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
He was running RG6 instead of RG11 probably.
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

will deliver the performance of fiber at one-tenth the cost

Crap like the title really ought to get companies fined.

The upper limits of fiber optic transfer speeds are continually being broken. They're literally not even in the same ballpark of each other. (if dsl even could reliably deliver that for any reasonable distance)
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: will deliver the performance of fiber at one-tenth the cost

No kidding...Verizon just successfully tested 10G to a subscriber. 100M != 10G.
TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA
While FO has certain characteristics that limit performance, there is no current bandwidth limit on Single Mode Fiber...not yet.

All bandwidth limits are governed by hardware. Of course DSL cannot deliver the speeds fiber can, neither can COAX for that matter, however COAX has a looooong life ahead.

Everyone is under the impression that Europe and Asia have fiber to everyone...LOL. That's a joke. I invite you to go to Italy, Spain, France and look for yourselves. In rural Europe they are still using dialup and satellite.

Karl wants to make you think the Telcos have such deep pockets that they can and should deploy fiber and 100Mbps to everyone.

I think this Vectoring approach is pretty neat and something I would use in a campus building or MDU to wireless nodes.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Fairpoint, Qwest, Frontier, small telcos interested ?

Verizon who is dumping DSL territories or pushing FIOS won't care.
AT&T pushing U-verse won't care.

But those stuck on DSL for the long haul, like Qwest, Fairpoint, Frontier, & a bunch of small telcos could be very interested in rolling out faster DSL where it makes sense(i.e. not lots of rewiring; but strategic investments in hardware).
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runzero

join:2005-09-16
DC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
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1 edit

Re: Fairpoint, Qwest, Frontier, small telcos interested ?

The only way to entice any company would be with heavy competition or government intervention, and judging from your avatar and username, well...
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Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
What do you think Uverse is?
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
True, but these solutions that require multiple pairs coming into a house aren't going to help them much. All that copper has to come from somewhere, and it isn't in the ground at the moment.

Or maybe it is. With the way the telcos are bleeding customers, many could probably do some rewiring and get more pairs into the houses that do want this service.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Fairpoint, Qwest, Frontier, small telcos interested ?

Actually, dual-pair in rural areas isn't uncommon. Particularly for rural areas where USF funds have been invested into copper infrastructure...

dmxrob6
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Boonville, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
AT&T has been running at least 2 pair for a long time. When they came and trenched my yard to lay a new copper line this summer (old line developed a short) they went ahead and ran a 4-pair line. Not sure if this is the new standard or what -- but nice to see it.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
U-Verse is DSL. They would be interested.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
Many modern / urban cities won't care about DSL technologies if there is something higher capacity already in place.

Eg. US/Canadian/European/Asian cities typically have cable deployed which is already more than capable.
Rural areas (where cable won't reach) 'could' use this technology IF the following would work:

a) Distances can become MUCH longer
b) Cost is minimal to deploy
c) There is a requirement to deploy (for telcos)

Many other countries would probably look to wireless infrastructure for deployment.
With the exception of greenfield - I don't think there's much digging going on outside of FiOS deployments in the US.

xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA

ha!

coz everyone knows theres a shit ton of good copper plant just begging to be used (sarcasm)

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: ha!

Someone needs to make copper stock go up.
munky99999
Munky

join:2004-04-10
canada

1/10 fiber cost

quote:
The technology "will deliver the performance of fiber at one-tenth the cost of fiber-to-the-home," claims the company in a press statement.
100 mbps dsl at 1/10th the cost? Also 1/10th to 1/100th the speed.. fiber is gigabit or 10g

Why is there so much info about dsl upgrades coming out? Have all the companies finally realized DSL is dead and they are all coming out at once to just dump all their work and move on?
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if (value == 0)
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else
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sparc

join:2006-05-06

Re: 1/10 fiber cost

because the big players have halted new deployments for uverse and fios-like services. We're years away from those services in new areas.

If someone can come up with something cheaper for even a fraction of the results, then these companies will scramble to take advantage.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Schaumburg, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom
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Re: 1/10 fiber cost

we are kinda years behind. Europe has seen ADSL2+ with IPTV/Satellite combo years before VDSL with comparable speeds came to the U.S.

In rural areas, Europe does not use wood for electric, telephone poles. They use concrete material that holds well. They have steps than enable technicians to go up without ladder.

EuroDoCSIS has more room than US Docsis and they have always had faster speeds. With Docsis 3.0 they have already 120Mb/s, while we struggle a bit with 50mb/s as the fastest tier.

Your privacy is protected. They don't use Social Security Number for everything. Its easier to find a job, especially the one for which you overqualify (lets say you look for a work after you got college diploma but in the meantime want to work seasonal at an electronics store).

They were the first to implement biometric chips in password before US.

need more examples?
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: 1/10 fiber cost

said by chgo_man99:

Your privacy is protected. They don't use Social Security Number for everything. Its easier to find a job, especially the one for which you overqualify (lets say you look for a work after you got college diploma but in the meantime want to work seasonal at an electronics store).

They were the first to implement biometric chips in password before US.

need more examples?
And all of europe has national ID cards. The USA has none, technically.
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Schaumburg, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom
·T-Mobile US

Re: 1/10 fiber cost

State/ license IDs are ok. That's why it is United States. Passport/nexus card can always be used as a second national id. But I really would want to see requirements for taking writing exams to go away when you move to another state and need to change Driver's License.

redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI
The money they used to try and milk DSL at 5 feet how much fiber could have been laid with that money? No one is doing these lab experiments for free.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: 1/10 fiber cost

said by redxii:

The money they used to try and milk DSL at 5 feet how much fiber could have been laid with that money? No one is doing these lab experiments for free.
The patents for super dooper DSL will wind up in the next iPhone chipset as noise cancellation on a bus inside a microcontroller.

datguy9

@verizon.net

plenty of copper

what everyone is forgetting is that the telcos have plenty spare copper pairs now due to people disconnecting their landlines..

more importantly, their will be CLECS who may invest in this technology to compete with the telcos.. remember the clecs rent copper pairs at a set price.. with Fios being installed everywhere, that leaves even more spare copper avialable.

I wouldnt be surprised to see any number of clecs investing in these super dsl speeds in the future, and the telcos going along with it-- why you ask?

Better to get 10-20 a month renting copper to a clec, then letting it sit unused and earning 0!
TierX

join:2009-01-20
Canada
kudos:8

Re: plenty of copper

said by datguy9 :

what everyone is forgetting is that the telcos have plenty spare copper pairs now due to people disconnecting their landlines..

more importantly, their will be CLECS who may invest in this technology to compete with the telcos.. remember the clecs rent copper pairs at a set price.. with Fios being installed everywhere, that leaves even more spare copper avialable.

I wouldnt be surprised to see any number of clecs investing in these super dsl speeds in the future, and the telcos going along with it-- why you ask?

Better to get 10-20 a month renting copper to a clec, then letting it sit unused and earning 0!
CLEC's can't use this, it has to be deployed via the ilec in the area. For DSM L3 (vectored dsl) to work, the entire binder has to be connected to the same line card or dslam, so the vectoring processor has access to all of the pairs. If any of the pairs in the binder connect to a different dslam, then crosstalk cancellation and channel pre-compensation will not work optimally; hence negating any benefit from DSM L3.

Any DSM L3 deployment needs to be done very carefully and with detailed knowledge of the cable topology in the binder. I don't see many ILEC's giving CLEC's this level of information.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: plenty of copper

Let alone the fact CLECs have no access to RTs. And atleast half of america (by population) is beyond the range of CO DSL.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan

LOL

yea i probably won't ever see 100mb dsl due to the fact that dsl has never and will never be offered where i live
TierX

join:2009-01-20
Canada
kudos:8

not leaving the lab ?

lol silly rabbit, we already have DSM L3 and vectoring prototypes in our lab, it'll be commercially deployed in 2-3 years to existing remote dslams. This doesn't mean gigabit dsl to every customer, but it does mean 100mbit bonded/vectored service to the majority of our customer base.

AT&T and Qwest will likely follow similar deployments.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: not leaving the lab ?

Who is going to make the special fancy DSL modems that sit in users homes? I don't see Broadcom making these chipsets or 2wire making modems with them. How will the telco force all existing DSL customers on the binder to upgrade to special proprietary DSL modems?
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:22

Will it need a copper upgrade too ?

If you start to require multiple copper pairs to each home, the only way to achieve this without having to install additional copper pairs is to loose half of your customers so that you can double the pairs used by the other half.

Will telcos want to lose half their customers in order to retain the other half ?

Seems to me that if you need to start to isntall additional copper, you might as well install fibre.

MonkeyLick78

join:2002-01-27
Hixson, TN

Re: Will it need a copper upgrade too ?

It's like they're running around in circles. At this point they seem to be trying to save face instead of admitting they're too outdated.

Dufraisne

@comcast.net

ahhh...

No need really. One could move to my old city and get 50/50, 100/100, 150/150 and 200/200 (if its out yet) via fiber. i paid like 58 last year for 50/50. might also do 125/125

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