 
Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
| Good Looks like the ISPs have finally figured out that the RIAA is not on their side. Now that the RIAA can't bully them in court, the ISPs figured out how to stand up to them.
All that is left is to make an ISPAA to stand up to the RIAA collectively in legal battles in congress and the courts. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Re: Good Throw a rock at Goliath! | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: Good it's probably both a pain and a chore for isps to do that. good for isps, bad for riaa. and lets hope it stays that way. | |
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HiVolt
30
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs: | Re: Good Great. F!@# the RIAA and their tactics. | |
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edbo245
Premium
join:2003-03-22
Wickliffe, OH
clubs: | Re: Good Great. F!@# the RIAA and their tactics.
___________________________________________________________
Same thing I was thinking myself...
»www.boycott-riaa.com | |
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rsa0
join:2003-01-25
Birmingham, AL | Stop buying CDs...hit them where it hurts. They are fighting a loosing battle. If the prices would be reasonable, then I would buy, but now...they are GREEDY. | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Good And your NOT greedy for wanting free music??? | |
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| | | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| Re: Good said by ronpin  :
And your NOT greedy for wanting free music???
Where did he say he wanted free music? Just because he says "don't buy CDs" doesn't necessarily mean he's downloading music. | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Good Uh right...he's involved in this discussion because he dislikes music in general...uh...yeah..OK | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: Good The poster did mention that they would buy CD's if prices were reasonable. I wish some of you would read the ENTIRE post before passing judgement. | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Good Geesh...the criminal mind...
So if I think new car prices are unreasonable then I have the right to "aquire" one through other means???
Maybe we need to read our own posts first? | |
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blackjeep
join:2001-07-12
Atlanta, GA | Re: Good Yes. Absolutely, go out and buy thru other means. BUY USED! | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Good Agreed! | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| right it's called buying USED...something the RIAA tried to stop in the mid 90's with trying to make it illegal for used CD stores to operate. Ya that was killed, obviously. Also...yer analogy of a new car is bad....u can test drive it and in some cases keep it for a day or 2. Try that with a CD LOL U can't even perview em anymore | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| Re: Good A lot of stores around me let me listen to CDs while in the store. Also, most online music stores now have sound clips from most of, if not all, songs on the CDs. It's good enough to get an ides of what the CD sounds like before purchasing.
Sites that do this include:
bestbuy.com
circuitcity.com
amazon.com
cdnow.com (really the same as amazon)
deepdiscountcd.com
So yes, you can "test drive" a CD before you buy it.
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Don't cross the crooked step! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Good said by stet :
A lot of stores around me let me listen to CDs while in the store. Also, most online music stores now have sound clips from most of, if not all, songs on the CDs. It's good enough to get an ides of what the CD sounds like before purchasing.
Sites that do this include:
bestbuy.com
circuitcity.com
amazon.com
cdnow.com (really the same as amazon)
deepdiscountcd.com
So yes, you can "test drive" a CD before you buy it.
The thing that bugs me about the online store's sound clips is that most of the time all you get is a 30 second sample that doesn't really give you that good a representation of that song. At least with the type of music I look for. Most stores that have anywhere near reasonable prices only have a select few CD's on sample kiosks for you to preview. Not saying these aren't good formats or that there aren't any stores that give you full flexibility. I'm just saying it's not always the best way to go. | |
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thegrinch8
join:2001-08-27
Westminster, CA
clubs:
| You're so far of. Rather then telling people to read perhaps you should just bow out and say nothing. You only make yourself look foolish. No where in this thread did someone promote free music. It's a simple fact that people dislike the tactics the RIAA tried pulling regardless of wether you upload or download. Maybe it's you that should read. | |
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| | | | | | | CrazyJr
join:2003-02-27
Oakland, CA
| said by ronpin :
...So if I think new car prices are unreasonable then I have the right to "aquire" one through other means???
Yes you can. It is done all the time every day all across America. It's call carjacking, or better yet, break into a car at the dealer. I've seen glass on the ground to tell me someone attempted to steal a car off a dealer lot.
As for me, hell yeah I'm going to keep downloading. | |
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| | | | | | | wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| I thought that a particular telescope stand was too expensive. So I copied the design of it and built one myself. Does that make me a criminal?
Your posts make you sound like a person who just wants to bash people because they are doing something that you don't agree with.
puritan | |
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| | | | | phantom66
join:2004-01-16
Acton, ON
| said by ronpin :
Uh right...he's involved in this discussion because he dislikes music in general...uh...yeah..OK
Thankyou Mr. Kreskin. Oh to be all knowing... | |
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| | | | | clonehappy
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
| said by ronpin :
Uh right...he's involved in this discussion because he dislikes music in general...uh...yeah..OK
Where does the RIAA find these guys??!?! | |
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r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL | Who says you are getting free music. We support bands through concerts. Until CD prices get reasonable, download for free. Once a happy medium is made then more will buy them. | |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| Re: Good I download because I can't find that music in any online store or CD is way too expensive. P2P can be very profitable. Just charge $10/mo for using sharing program (ie Napster) instead of killing it.
Then they'll get pure $$$, no need for fast servers, Greatest uploaders will get priority for downloading. I don't mind paying that low monthly fee and many people will follow.
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There are 32 types of people.Those who understand HEX and those who don't. | |
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ | Re: Good is Napster a sharing service anymore? | |
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rsa0
join:2003-01-25
Birmingham, AL
 ·Charter Pipeline
| ronpin - do not rush to conclusions...I do have over 2000 CD (legit)...which I have bought from all over the world, at MUCH lower prices than they rip you off here in US. What I am trying to say is that with this tactics, I will avoid at any costs to buy music here, even if I like it. I do have SIRIUS radio, and I am paying for it, because 12$ / mo is a reasonable price. 12...15$ a CD is a RIP OFF. If you wish to support a foreign organization (RIIA - composed of SONY, VIVENDI, etc) to impose a law tailored for them, then go ahead, but don't tell me that I am greedy...and think about it....do you really agree with their communist tactics ? You have mentioned cars....but I can deal the price of the car ! right ? now...can you deal the price of a CD, or a DVD ? do you really think that is the REAL cost of that CD or DVD ? | |
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jansm38
Vn800-B
Premium
join:2003-05-19
Blackwood, NJ
| said by rsa0 :
Stop buying CDs...hit them where it hurts. They are fighting a loosing battle. If the prices would be reasonable, then I would buy, but now...they are GREEDY.
And not buying CD's helps the Artists that are getting ripped off by the RIAA how?
Not buying CD's means even LESS money for the Artists. | |
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| | | tonekilla
Pipe Dreams
Premium
join:2003-07-26
Gunnison, MS
clubs:
1 edit | decided not to post . | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| My guess is they didn't like being the RIAA whipping boys.
When you come in with strong arm tactics after saying you want to work with someone, you lose all credibility and no one wants to help someone who loves to show their arrogance.
Now, it is time for the RIAA to jump through hoops and play by the rules. | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| 
I have Roadrunner Cable, I wood not trust thim for this reason Warner support the RIAA, all RIAA need is the support from your ISP.
Warner Music and Warner Cable Roadrunner support the RIAA
More Ways to Fight the RIAA Lawsuits
Don't Buy Music from RIAA Members
Executives at the major record labels--BMG, Sony, Warner, EMI, and Universal--think they can trample over families to scare the public into buying their products. We need to show them that this strategy is unacceptable and will not work. Every time someone buys a CD from an RIAA company, they are helping to fund these lawsuits. To determine whether a CD you're thinking of buying is made by an RIAA member, use RIAA Radar. | |
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Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium
join:2001-12-14
Rotonda West, FL
| Great! This is excellent news. I for one DID support the RIAA until I saw the tactics they were using to "stop" this P2P madness. Taking 60 people in the country to court doesn't solve anything. What is $100,000 to the RIAA? It's about 25 cents to us, that's what it is.
I understand that this material we trade is copyrighted by them, and they own this content. But I honestly think the biggest cause for the RIAA's lose of money is the economy. We are still is a recession, and until we come completely out of it, sales are going to be lower across the board...this includes CD sales.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem buying CD's. But I only buy CD's that are worth it, like Better Than Ezra. You see, I can listen to the entire CD and enjoy every song on it.
However, just from listening to the radio in my car 2 hours each day, I hear the same 5 songs over and over again. What makes you think I'm going to buy that crap, when I'm sick of it...let alone download it!
The stunts the RIAA is pulling are wrong, and they need to focus their attention on the economy...not the few heavy file traders out there.
How about lowering the prices of CD's???? Now there's an idea, make CD's more affordable to people suffering from this recession rather than attacking file traders.
My 2 cents...
-Dragasoni-
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»www.dragasoni.com | |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| Re: Great! Re: RIAA tactics
It's an unfortunate aspect of human behavior: some people just will not behave themselves until one "leans on them." Arguably, doing something is better than nothing. However...they most certainly cross "the line" when they start autonomously harrassing people. It's like that episode of "WKRP in Cincinnati" where Dr. Johnny Fever jumps behind the couch fearing the phone cops. Hmmm....RIAA cops... I also feel quite unsettled at the notion they somehow have a right (DMCA) to mess with the contents of my hard disk. mmmmff.
Re: lowering CD prices
Some have. It even has made the radio news to which I listen. I think it was BMG, but I'm not sure.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Great! said by rchandra :
Re: lowering CD prices
Some have. It even has made the radio news to which I listen. I think it was BMG, but I'm not sure.
I'm still waiting to see the actual costs lowered. So far none of the stores I've been had any change in prices. I think something about the wording of the announced lower prices actually meant they lowered it in an area where it actually doesn't mean lower CD prices. Basically wholesale costs are lower, but the MSRP is still the same. Actually most places already sell at below MSRP, which is approximately $19.99.
All the announced price cut actually do was make the MSRP closer to $13 at those places that still sell CD's at $20. Technically the only change in price is a couple of dollars and still not at that golden price of $10 that most people say is their buying threshold. | |
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| | | CrazyJr
join:2003-02-27
Oakland, CA
| Re: Great! said by SRFireside :
All the announced price cut actually do was make the MSRP closer to $13 at those places that still sell CD's at $20. Technically the only change in price is a couple of dollars and still not at that golden price of $10 that most people say is their buying threshold.
When I used to live in Sacramento, I went to The Beat records because they sell them used. I would buy as much as $70.00 USD worth of CDs and LPs (yes, I still bought vinyl). I would buy CDs for as much as $8.98 USD, which I felt comfortable. I did see the prices of new CDs rise steadily throughout the 90s.
I was totally unaware that RIAA wanted to stop vendors from selling used CDs. I'm glad that didn't go through.:) | |
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| | | medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA
| Or, how about this tactic:
Issue press releases about new, lower prices. Advertise and hype the hell out of cutting 20% or even 30%. Even open your own eCommerce site to sell at the advertised price, (plus tax, shipping and handling, of course). But don't change your wholesale price.
Instead, you force your distributors and retailers to lower their margin to make up the discount. Maybe there used to be 30-40% margin in music, and stores flourished. Then it when down to 20%, now even less. Of course, then the distributors and retailers have to cut costs or go out of business. How do you cut costs?
- Reduce the number of employees. Instead of five staff working at all times, now there's only two. One sits at the register all day, and the other stocks shelves. RESULT: long lines and lack of help drives customers out of store and to Internet resellers.
- Reduce the hourly wage and benefits. Lower pay means lower quality workers. Lower quality means the few employees left aren't as knowledgeable and can't offer alternative suggestions, recommend new bands, do cross selling. RESULT: Lower per-customer sales, customers looking for new artists are driven to P2P.
- Reduce inventory. Instead of ordering and paying up-front for 200 of the new CD from a top band, only get 100. You can't afford to pay for CD's or the display space for stuff that will sit around for weeks or months. Eliminate or significantly reduce stock of unknown or less-popular artists. Eliminate low-volume genres. RESULT: chases the specialty buyer to higher-priced specialty dealers, the Internet (where margin can be recouped on shipping, handling and advertising) and, of course, P2P.
- Reduce service. No more queuing albums up so you can hear new artists. No more stack of demo discs by the player to sample new music. Sure, there's still music playing in the store -- of the same top-20 crap you hear on the radio 1,000 times a day, all piped-in courtesy of the big record labels. And, of course, the slime-encrusted preview stations loaded with more top-100 songs from major labels.
I remember as a teenager and early adult going on regular trips to the local record stores. I'd go with a few friends and we'd spend hours listening to new music. The stores were owned and managed hands-on by people who loved music and could recommend new, unknown artists that were compatible with your tastes, and would take the time to play you some cuts. Even the staff who worked at the store made more than minimum wage, becuse they all loved music and would make the store extra money by sharing their knowledge with customers, resulting in additional sales. All this in the day when albums sold for about half what CD's cost now, but cost more to manufacture than current production costs. We would walk out of the store with four to six new albums each. When we got home, the first thing we did was start dubbing cassettes to keep in the car and share with each other. But the funny thing is that, eventually, we all wound up buying the same albums sooner or later, because we all wanted the original covers, the first-generation quality, and the ability to make more copies ourselves whenever we wanted.
Today I use P2P to find new music, but it's a pain in the ass. P2P doesn't recommend songs from artists similar to what I'm downloading, and even if it could, I'd be too afraid that my preferences were being data-mined and sold by unscrupulous corporate entities. When I do find an album I like, trying to download a clean, complete copy of all 10 songs, create a directory and playlist, edit ID strings, burn a CD and print a label and jewel-case cover is a 3-hour process. I make about $50, and with 3 kids and a house in the sticks, even my free time is precious. There's no way it's worth $150 of my time to save $20 on a CD. But these economics don't apply to the music industry's target consumer: 13 to 25 year olds.
The 13-25yo makes up at least 60% of the music industry's consumer base. Probably closer to 80%. And the basic problem is that these people are still earning 1989 wages, but have to pay inflated 2004 prices for their essentials. And their essentials are: car, car stereo, car repairs, car insurance and gas; food for when they take out their girlfriends, alcohol and condoms (hopefully only for those old/responsible enough); and clothes (since they never wear what their parents buy for them). The price for all these things has gone up considerably since 1989. But minimum wage, which is where they all hover in terms of earnings, hasn't kept pace. The continuous flood of immigrants and off-shoring of low-end jobs has acted to keep earnings at a very low rate of improvement – nowhere near the increases in price on their essentials. The result is that these consumers, who have lots of free time and don't place a high value on their time, don't have the disposable income for music. Ironically, a kid working in a music store today has to work four hours to buy an album, whereas in 1989 he only had to work about two hours.
Reducing the price of a CD will help boost per-unit sales, but won't significantly increase music industry revenues. Scaring people with lawsuits may slow-down P2P sharing, but I can tell you it hasn't stopped sharing through other means, including private P2P, underground P2P, and just hand-to-hand sharing. Copy protected CD's may eliminate digital reproductions, but won't stop high-quality analog recordings. Besides, time and time again, teenagers and college-age adults have demonstrated the ability to overcome whatever copy protection is introduced. After all, they have plenty of free time.
So I agree that the decline in music industry sales has less to do with P2P sharing and much to do with economics. It's too bad the RIAA doesn't expend some effort into fixing THAT problem. | |
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mskittykat
Reality Bites...So I'm Back
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Upper Marlboro, MD
| Great News! In all honesty, this is the way that the RIAA should've went about with their tactics in the first place. Creating awarness rather than fear would've gotten them alot farther.
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"Smart is knowing your ABC's. Intelligent is knowing how to use them." | |
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Mrq5
The Fab Four
join:1999-08-21
Warren, MI
1 edit | Re: Ha! Ha! If RIAA could have their way there wouldnt be an Internet AT ALL:) All RIAA wants is to shift broadband profits back to them, just a simple shifting of $$$.
Why would any ISP go for this unless legally forced! Of course ISP's dont want to do anything that can potentially LOOSE paying subcribers and profits. Loss profits in the form of all the extra overhead that would be needed to police such actions. ISP's would be setting themselves up for a public relations nightmare if just 1 customer who was put through the ringer actually was trading LEGAL content, which was initially assumed to be illegal.
Word of mouth is still the BEST advertisement many ISP's have, even the big ISP's like SBC. All it takes is for a few customers to start spreading the news that XXX ISP is on the RIAA side and will be tracking your every second on the Internet. | |
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Counterstric
I Was Here
join:2002-07-18
| I think the real reason ISPs are fighting is They do not want to play traffic cop on the internet, if they do to some extent they become responsible for their subscribers activities it puts them in a bad legal position. It is much better for ISPs and customers that ISPs do not play gatekeeper to the internet.
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I do not hate xor love Windows, I hate and love Windows... That's why I can laugh about Windows and still use it.  | |
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| medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA
| Re: I think the real reason ISPs are fighting is The ISP's don't want to loose customers, and shutting-down P2P will drive away customers. On the other hand, P2P is the most significant use of bandwidth on the Internet, and a single P2P user who hasn't properly throttled his/her P2P upload settings can bring an ISP's upstream connection to its knees. That is why ISP's have upload caps that are many times lower than technically possible.
ISP's would love to see P2P sharing go away. It would lower their upstream bandwidth costs significantly without the risk of losing customers. But they cannot be the ones to enforce such a requirement, or they loose anyway.
If ISP's don't want the RIAA to be able to harass thier users, they could simply implement forced DHCP renews with new IP addresses every hour, don't log the lease assignments, and proxy the traffic without logging. When the RIAA comes knocking a month later about a P2P problem, the ISP will honestly be able to say "I have no idea who was using that IP at that time." | |
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| | PHP fus1on
join:2003-03-20
West Salem, WI | Re: I think the real reason ISPs are fighting is you have to remember that most big name ISP's own there own backbones, and only peer into other networks which might not always be used. | |
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just-a-browsin
@219.95.x.x
| Hey do you think if any of you met up with these RIAA jerks on the street, would you stab em in the chest? You'd be doing a lotta people here a favour...
Ok ok too violent...hahaha!!
To the ISPs that deny RIAA's requests, thank you.
P.S: Heh...read somewhere on the thread about him buying more CDs after p2p. That rings true for me...I would never have discovered new artists if not for p2p *i.e: would still be stuck with what the radios try to promote* :P | |
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tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs: | It's not in ISP's interests Why bite the hand that feeds you? What else do average joe consumers want broadband for except to download?
Also, why invite all the administrative headaches riaa requests will bring?
What's the incentive for ISP's to give a crap? | |
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djtim21
It's all good
Premium
join:2003-12-22
Buffalo Grove, IL
clubs:
| said by tomkb :
Why bite the hand that feeds you? What else do average joe consumers want broadband for except to download?
Also, why invite all the administrative headaches riaa requests will bring?
What's the incentive for ISP's to give a crap?
Why bite the hand that feeds you? What else do average joe consumers want broadband for except to download?
Also, why invite all the administrative headaches riaa requests will bring?
What's the incentive for ISP's to give a crap?
The average "Joe Consumer" Like me  wants to be able to surf the web, get e-mail and maybe download some freeware or even shareware to help with my computer problems - Not have some over paid "group" tell me what I can and can not do.
When you have a P2P environment, you can trade items with ease. I don't want some Guard Dog telling me that I can't download or share things with the public. The RIAA did a real injustice to anyone they served with papers. They tried to play "Above the Law" and as everyone knows you won't be able to get away with that.
In time, the RIAA is going to disappear. I remember some big music Celb saying "I would like music to go the way of sports. It's free to watch on TV, you can take the music for free, put events, t-shirts, promos are going to cost more (concerts, stuff like that)" and I can't remember everything he said.
In this day and age, consumers all have the power. If you don't like something, you don't buy it and it gets passed off to the side, except the mini-disc by sony, they are still trying to push it
Just don't buy CD's, I'm not saying to download music (unless it's a legal site like I-Tunes) I'm just saying don't pay the people trying to infringe on our rights to share legal stuff.
P2P is the wave of the future. The P2P boards are developing the tech to make things on-demand. They are going to help us make our lives a little easier in the future.
I personally am a little mixed on this subject. My opinion is very against the RIAA, but being in the computer industry with copyrights for software, I know where that line is and it must be enforced with my company. We do not allow any downloads unless my staff makes sure it's a free program, or we purchase a licence for it.
Music, is a different story. The line is blurred due to radio & TV. Yes I did say that.  I think music should be free, just like the radio & TV broadcasts are free. I think kids get confused about this just for that reason and don't understand the whole issue.
Well I have to stop somewhere 
Post on everyone | |
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| | clonehappy
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
| Re: It's not in ISP's interests quote:
except the mini-disc by sony, they are still trying to push it
Odd you would mention the mini-disc. I believe that the mini-disc WAS the RIAA's answer to declining profits. In the beginning, everyone bought vinyl. Then when cassettes were introduced, everyone bought their favorite albums and recordings AGAIN on tape. Next came the CD and its superior sound quality, the same thing happened again. This kept the RIAA in the money for years. Now, I know making a format obsolete really sucks, but if the record industry had embraced mini-disc, they could still be selling old music on a new format and making huge profits. Not to mention that mini-discs are superior to CD's in that they can't be scratched, never skip, and you could buy blank recordables for a standard deck over ten years ago. Ah well...
No new format since '82 + economy in the sewer = declining RIAA revenue. | |
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Xcomcastuser
@emhril.ameritech
| Makes sense (I only read the front page blurb)
RIAA: Hi this is the RIAA and we want to make our problems your problems so.. here is a list of IP addresses and times, can you please give the owners the threatening message oh and possible the names and addresses later?
ISP: In short you want us to rat out our customers which could make us loose them and thus revenue, shooting ourselves in the foot so to say?
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NO, not unless we are forced to.
ME: It all comes down to money | |
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Snakeoil
Taxes are Armed robbery.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| Between RIAA, MPAA, and file traders The news should hold some interesting stuff.
RIAA/MPAA are right in trying to stop theft of their stuff. The normal channels hadn't produced results, so then they tried questionable metheods.
The File Traders are wrong in putting up files that they may have paid for, for others to download freely and to use without paying for the right to use it.
But I do think that File Traders provide something that has been over looked.
1]Many "hot" movies, when viewed as a trailer look great. But after paying 8 bucks to watch it in the theater, it turns out to be a stinker. I look at "screeners' as a preview before I go to the theater.
2]Software: How come there are many internet software companies that offer a trail period before you buy their software. But when you buy the software from the retail stores, you are stuck with it if you didn't like it.
I look at software offered over P2P networks as "try before you buy".
3]Music: Again Cds are high priced for little return [maybe 1 or 2 good songs, no video or tour information]. Better to do the buck per song thing then buy the whole CD.
I read that someone wanted to purpose a liscense fee on the amount you download. The more you download the higher your bill but the stuff would be legal.
I then read a counter to this. The problem is we are now a flate rate billing for internet use, vs the pay by the hour or pay for the amount you download.
Maybe a solution like adding a charge for large amounts of downloading [over ports used by P2P, FTP, IRC and other file transer protocols] per month would work.
Though ther would have to be a way to etermine if a person is playing a online game vs downloading a movie.
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For what its worth:There are no great men, just ordinary people that had managed to over come great problems. *I forgot which pres. said that. | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
1 edit | Re: Between RIAA, MPAA, and file traders said by Snakeoil :
Many "hot" movies, when viewed as a trailer look great. But after paying 8 bucks to watch it in the theater, it turns out to be a stinker. I look at "screeners' as a preview before I go to the theater.
The sad thing is that many movie producers depend on suckering people into paying to watch what they already know to be a bad movie. Lots of bad movies end up making money this way. Hollywood depends on this. That's why so many movies may have a hot opening weekend, but then die out really fast once word gets out. But if the hype was big enough, enough people will be suckered in over that opening weekend for the movie to make a profit. Like Tomb Raider, for example. Enough suckers paid to see that crap, that they did an equally sucky sequel.
Yes, it's deceptive. But it's also good marketing. If they can sell people crap, then they are doing a good job.
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: Between RIAA, MPAA, and file traders The way I see it this means the movie companies now have to make sure they put out quality product instead of trying to trick people out of their $8. Gotta love it when technology becomes just as tough a competitor as a rival company. | |
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rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC
| Libraries? I still hate to give a comparison no one has disputed. A library buys a book and royalities have been paid one time. the library loans it out to a few thousand citizens.
I buy a CD, royalities have been paid one time. I loan it to a few thousand online friends. Where is the difference?
Either the RIAA is greedier than the writters or our governments should be prosecuted for copyright fraud by supporting libraries.
What's even funnier is I can go to a library, check out a CD, burn a copy and return it. | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Libraries? Libraries do not allow you to make copies of books (exception for passages for educational purposes).
Also is it really fair to compare the dissemination of knowledge through public libraries with entertainment? | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: Libraries? Proliferation of the arts is a pretty strong reason for comparison. Remember the whole purpose of copyright law is to help support the arts. | |
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chuckpint
join:2001-07-06
Evanston, IL
1 edit | Letter hasn't gotten to India yet You are all missing what really has happened here. Sure the RIAA has sent a letter to the 50 largest ISPs. But that letter had to go to their customer support in India (or somewhere overseas). I'm sure it just hasn't got there... | |
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| tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | Re: Letter hasn't gotten to India yet Well my ISP's support/headquarters is actually located in the same town as I am located in. (Frontier) So far I think my ISP has stood firm against these guys. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: All I have to say LMAO!!! | |
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| | baked247
Can Nib Is
join:2003-06-25
Phoenix, AZ | Re: All I have to say Thats what the RIAA gets for bullying the world around...Maybe next time they will act civilized and quit gestapoing the world. | |
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| | | starfighter
join:2000-12-11
Valencia, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: All I have to say I don't like the RIAA one bit, and would love to see then all in bankruptcy court. I don't download music, and I don't buy CDs, at least not in the USA. I get mine from friends in China, and have them shipped to me here. You would be surprised at how many CDs are released there labled for sale in China only. At an average cost of $2.50 - $3.00 it sure beats buying them here, and raises a VERY obvious question. | |
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| | | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | there is no more next time. | |
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spawn46375
join:2001-03-07
Schererville, IN
·AT&T Midwest
| yea! this is what being an american is about! screw the greed.
the major issue is that what pennys of each cd actually goes to the group and the majority goes to these greedy fools.
as for the 50 isps my hats off to them and i wish that they prosper well except for roadrunner, earthlink (due to send jobs over seas), and aol just for blantenly overtaking many many systems | |
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Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY
| Why should they I am sure it costs our ISP's money to handle "orders" from the RIAA so now that they are not required by law to comply, why should they. I would not be surprised if certain ISP's have advised them to cease and desist all contact with them unless they have a court order. Time is money and money and more money is all our ISP's truly care about. | |
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FERCHRISTSAKEPEOPLE
thumbs down from:
koolman2
|  ISP's Don't Have a Choice - they MUST comply.
Bottomline, the Pirates are goin' to jail. They can run, they can hide, but they are goin' to jail at the end of the day. No court is gonna allow Pirates to steal copyright protected material. The courts have made it quite clear that copyright law is valid and will be enforced. End of story. Do NOT pass GO. Do NOT get out of JAIL free. | |
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| niko01
join:2004-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: ISP's Don't Have a Choice - they MUST comply. You are on the right track, but this is not what the Verizon opinion really means. What it means is that instead of getting a rubber-stamp subpoena, the RIAA has to:
Go to court and file a lawsuit - which means:
a) enter an appearance through counsel;
b) certify that the complaint is based upon reasonable investigation under the circumstances;
c) risk sanctions by a judge should their complaint be without merit;
d) clearly place the process under the federal rules of civil procedure;
e) respect protections for non-parties (i.e. ISPs)
f) prove civil liability by a preponderance of the evidence
In other words, there is a process in this country that applies to every other potential plaintiff and that process requires some sort of court procedure before can say that someone is guilty of "illegal activities" and now the RIAA simply has to follow that same procedure. There are exceptions to that procedure but those are few and far between AND those exceptions also contain safeguards. NONE of those exceptions create a blank check for a special interest group the way that the RIAA was attempting to use the DMCA... | |
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Xzibit
Wtf Mate?
Premium
join:2002-04-19
Santa Clara, CA
clubs: | owned! can you say owned? | |
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| knows I will get battered for this I have talked about this subject before and got battered for it. I guess if I don't agree with the RIAA that must mean I am stealing music.
The court said that the ISP's do not have to comply with the RIAA subpoenas. That the RIAA couldn't put multiple requests on one subpoena and force the ISP to give up there customers information. The DMCA made it easy for the RIAA just to file a subpoena without going through a proper judicial process. The RIAA didn't need proof of the infringement, only that they assume something was happening. The court found this to be invalid cause it would mean anyone can get a subpoena with showing any proof of anything.
Now the court did say that under current law the RIAA can sue people trading music but they have to go through a proper judicial process. Which means is that RIAA has to file lawsuits individually. It would be a john doe lawsuit cause the RIAA would first have to file a petition not just a subpoena with the court to get the ISP to reveal the name of the infringer.It also means that the RIAA would have to show proof that the person or the account holder is actually trading files. Doing all this is a lengthy process and will cost more money for the RIAA to sue.
What most people don't know is that most people who buy music are breaking the copyright one way or another. The RIAA applies many rules to that copyright and of course as music buyers we don't know what the rules are. The RIAA don't want us to know what the rules are regarding that copyright cause if we did most of us would never buy a cd again. Read the DMCA and the RIAA's policy on buying music and you will be surprised on what you can or can not do when you pay $18 for that cd.
What I said in the past and I will say it again, all the DMCA did was make it easy for the RIAA to accuse people without any proof and at the same time prevent someone from getting due process in the court of law. The DMCA prevents people from getting fair representation and the RIAA went along with it. I disagreed with the RIAA due to the fact they made it so easy to accuse someone without having any proof to back it up.
If someone is guilty or innocent of any crime they are still entitled to get fair representation under the current law. I thought we were a society of innocent until proven guilty not the other way around. | |
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Vengarr
join:2001-11-05
Louisville, KY
| Re: knows I will get battered for this You are not entitled to legal council in a civil lawsuit. This is not a guilt versus innocence thing here. In civil court there is no "beyond a reasonible doubt" clause, it is a preponderance of the evidence issue.
If the Riaa sues you, unless you have a high dollar attorney and are willing to spend ALOT, you will lose. They are choosing to sue people that have downloaded many songs and will have ironclad proof showing those were offered for download. | |
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link222
join:2001-12-21
Cranbury, NJ
| Is it lost money if ... I never would buy a CD in the first place ...if I like a song or maybe two I would never buy the album ...I have a sh*t load of mistakes from the 70's, 80's & 90's that I look at the album and say why did I buy that piece of sh*t for one song ... my rule now is it has to have at least 4 to 5 good songs on it for me to justify purchasing it ...RIAA is looking to sell one or two songs for 13 bucks ...Downloading is a way for the people to tell the RIAA the party is over, the gravy train is leaving and it ain't going to work that way anymore... they should wise up setup like someone suggested earlier 10 buck monthly fee to swap whatever you want (at least they will get money) ... CD sales will not go away, so they make that money on top of the monthly sales ... | |
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TilhasBB
Formally Goden99
Premium
join:2000-08-05
canada | Re: Also To the ISPs.
Thank you. | |
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| ebiebi
join:2003-08-13
Albuquerque, NM
1 edit | "RIAA has to stop pestering radio stations to play the same shitty top 40 and popular garbage! "
RIAA pays for that right. I read its illegal to pay radio stations directly to make them play certain songs but what happens is they have middle men funnel money to clear channel stations which now control most of the radio stations. Thus by paying X millions of dollars they can have ALL clear channel stations play Beyonce X amounts of times a day. Stations playists are many times dictated by the Music industry now. So many 1 hit filler albums get great exposure which will equate to X amount of sales. But sales are down mostly due to the horrible content of these new CD's. RIAA are too busy deciding what they want to produce and market and how they want to push it on the air with little regard to what people actually want to listen too. There is a lot of great talent out there and much of it is available for free with internet streaming. | |
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XknightHawkX
join:2003-02-13
Morton, IL
clubs:
| Prices I dowloaded music here and there but I just bought a cd the other day because I wanted the accually cd. I did not like paying 15.99 for a cd with 11 songs and no extras. I bought the Evanescene cd cause they have more than one good song. I didn't go but it cause I heard all of the songs on the radio. I bought it cause I found the songs on Kazaa lite and wanted a good hard copy I didn't have to burn. I will not go out and buy a cd for 15 to 17 dollars just for one song. The RIAA is going down. I know someone is gonna say something about my downloading but I have something to say. These people that say we are stealing the music by using the program support the high prices. I have a bunch of cassetes or I should say I used to until Someone stole a big bunch of them outta my car but my cd collection isn't growing cause I refuse to pay that much for a cd with 1 or 2 good songs. I was watching a story about a crountry music star that wasn't making money from cd sales and was about to go bankrupt but she said the concerts she did was keeping her afloat. Well I'll quit ranting about the RIAA being thieves themselves. Now let the RIAA supporters start their flaming of me. | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
1 edit | Re: Prices Not sure where you bought your CD, but you could have gotten Evanescence at Circuit City for $12.99 instead.
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Ignoring the RIAA
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from:
Glad to see it
