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story category ICANN Slams DNS Redirection
Calls such efforts a 'destabilizing practice'
(old news - 03:06PM Wednesday Nov 25 2009)
tags: business · alternatives · content · networking · consumers
Tipped by MIllIlITER See Profile
ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) on Tuesday condemned the practice of redirecting Internet users to a third-party portal when they mistype, or enter a nonexistent URL. You'll recall that the practice gained international attention when Verisign implemented their heavily-loathed Sitefinder initiative in 2003. That effort pushed ad-laden portals instead of proper errors Internet wide, but Verisign was forced to shutter the idea after significant backlash and ICANN criticism.

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ICANN published its opinions and findings in a draft memo, which discourages the practice of redirecting requests for nonexistent domains across all network levels, and suggests possibly even a ban of the practice, at least among gTLD owners. The Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) has long opposed such efforts, calling it a "destabilizing practice."
Handling DNS requests this way has a number drawbacks that could lead to the Internet not working properly, according to ICANN. For example, users sending e-mail to a domain that does not exist should get an immediate error message. However, if the message is redirected to a site set up to handle Web traffic, it's likely to get queued and an error message won't arrive for days, ICANN said.
Since Verisign's NXDOMAIN substitution effort, ISPs have widely been deploying redirection tools of their own and the tactic, dubbed DNS redirection, has grown to be an industry standard. While it's pushed by ISPs as something helpful, the concept's entire purpose is to create a revenue stream out of your sloppy typing. While ISPs don't reveal hard numbers, insiders have told us that DNS redirection can net an ISP an additional $5 in revenue, per user, per month.

Early on (2006), 'net purists lambasted the practice for the way it broke core network functionality. ISPs didn't help their cause by deploying the "service" without functional opt-out mechanisms. More recently, companies like Comcast have done a better job deploying the service, by offering customers "clean" DNS servers, engaging in an open dialog with users about what they want, and transparently documenting the effort via the RFC process.

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Forums » ICANN Slams DNS Redirection
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Post a:

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Washington, DC

Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

even when we type in the RIGHT address

Why not?

Heck, send an email? Get an AD

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

I like where your head's at.

Let's just take it all the way! Do anything? AD.

No access to anything. Just ads. All the time.

kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

Yes. All ads. All the time. For Brawndo The Thirst Mutilator!

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04

--
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kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

Come to think of it, just about the only thing Idiocracy got wrong was the miles-long Costco. It won't be Costco. Instead it will be endless strip malls with payday loan advance places charging 400% interest.
--
»www.VoIPTrunk.com

BenJammin101

@ritternet.com

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

Hahahahahah....

You know -- you have a really valid point.

-Ben

TSWYO
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You better be careful... eBay trademarked "Come to think of it"

Noah Vail
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said by kapil See Profile :

Yes. All ads. All the time. For Brawndo The Thirst Mutilator!
I need to have my Jaw Rewired after watching that.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Washington, DC

Heck, type a post here...give us a pop-up Ad

.

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:
too bad ICANN doesn't really matter...

kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

ICANN matters. A lot. Regardless of what the free market types would have you believe.

Same for IETF, IANA, IETF, ITU and other regulatory and standards organizations.

Your packets, phone calls and hell, your snail mail gets from point A to point B because there are underlying standards that make it so.
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

ICANN "matters", but they rarely -- if ever -- enforce anything.

Read the PDF. You won't find use of the terms CANNOT, WILL NOT, MUST NOT, or SHALL NOT. You'll find terms like "strongly discourages", "should not", "is directed to", "approach with caution", "recommends" -- and even this absolutely worthless statement:

---
If an applicant for a new gTLD believes there is a legitimate use of these technologies that will not have security or stability issues as described in Module 2 of the Applicant Guidebook (currently in draft version 3), the applicant has the option to include the service in its application justifying its reasoning why security and stability issues will not arise.
---
Exclusive DNS redirection/NXDOMAIN substitution prohibition only applies to new gTLDs (e.g. .poop) or ccTLDs (e.g. .bo for Bolivia, .ea for Earth, or whatever) going forward. None of the rules stated by ICANN apply to existing gTLDs or ccTLDs.

Wow, thanks ICANN, you're so useful! *facepalm*

This is probably one of the (many) reasons the EU wants ICANN disbanded from being US-centric -- oh, and they got their wish. Too bad that won't take effect until 2011.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Re: Heck, let's just start re-directing us to those sites

said by koitsu See Profile :

ICANN "matters", but they rarely -- if ever -- enforce anything.

Read the PDF. You won't find use of the terms CANNOT, WILL NOT, MUST NOT, or SHALL NOT. You'll find terms like "strongly discourages", "should not", "is directed to", "approach with caution", "recommends"
So much for getting them to shut down DIRECTI and BIZCN.COM, two of the most notorious domain registrars associated with rogue security sites and malware.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

Rogue Wolf
Is Sponsored By DJO Apple Juice

join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY
I'll do you one better. Want that Email to get to Grandma? See that ad? Click it. Buy whatever it advertises. No sale, no mail!

kapil
The Kapil

join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

Umm

1. ICANN has the authority to regulate this stuff, but it hasn't. Got a problem with DNS redirection? Should have done something about it earlier in the decade when it first became an issue. What do you want, a freakin' cookie ICANN? You're the regulator...REGULATE! Or at the very least don't whine for something completely within your control.

2. Comcast is the poster child for doing something the right way? When did that happen?
--
»www.VoIPTrunk.com

jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

Re: Umm

said by kapil See Profile :

1. ICANN has the authority to regulate this stuff, but it hasn't. Got a problem with DNS redirection? Should have done something about it earlier in the decade when it first became an issue. What do you want, a freakin' cookie ICANN? You're the regulator...REGULATE! Or at the very least don't whine for something completely within your control.

2. Comcast is the poster child for doing something the right way? When did that happen?
The ICANN report is focused on TLD operators or Registries, as can clearly be understood in their conclusions, which is obviously an area where ICANN has a direct relationship with such organizations. Comcast is not a TLD operator or a Registry, and IMHO our DNS redirect practices are out of scope for the current document from ICANN.

That being said, I presented in front of the ICANN SSAC during the 75th IETF meeting in July (shortly after I presented to the DNS Operations working group). I'm in the process of updating my Internet Draft (»tools.ietf.org/html/draft-living···irect-00) to include ICANN's and the IETF's feedback.

An overriding concern of both groups has been related to the impact of DNS redirect on the deployment of DNSSEC. The next version of the draft will better address this subject. Astute readers of the Comcast BBR forum will note as well that we've been running a DNSSEC trial for some time (»www.dnssec.comcast.net/) and that we just reported that we upgraded our entire DNS infrastructure (in part to handle the added processing expected due to DNSSEC and IPv6), and so have been doing a great deal to support and get ready for DNSSEC.
--
JL
Comcast
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY

E-mail example a bunch of crap

Real email hosts should use their own caching DNS or use business grade DNS that doesn't do a redirect. I use OpenDNS redirects but my email system hits ATT DNS directly. Bounced emails take less than 30 seconds.
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

Re: E-mail example a bunch of crap

Just wait for AT&T to start doing redirects!
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY

Re: E-mail example a bunch of crap

Since I pay for this service I don't think they would start the redirect shenanigan. And if they do, TWC Biz Class DNS is clean.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: E-mail example a bunch of crap

TWC does it and TWC Biz Class is TWC RR with just a different setting on the MAC address to prioritize your web traffic over the network (ie: business customers get their data faster than res customers). The DNS and everything else is the same.
--
www.two-pugs.com www.2pugs.etsy.com
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: E-mail example a bunch of crap

TWC Biz does use different DNS - IIRc is ns1.biz.twc.rr.com and ns2.biz.twc.rr.com - these are not the same DNS servers home users gets. We also have Time Warner fiber which falls under Biz class Direct Access - and there is a whole nother set of DNS servers for that.

To the fella that asked about ATT - I was referring to the real ATT MIS servers - 12.127.16.67 and 12.127.17.71
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

Re: E-mail example a bunch of crap

said by bn1221 See Profile :

To the fella that asked about ATT - I was referring to the real ATT MIS servers - 12.127.16.67 and 12.127.17.71
Are you implying that my ATTIS (AT&T Internet Services) DNS servers (68.94.156.1/68.94.157.1) are not "real" AT&T DNS servers?

Just noting that "AT&T Internet Services" and "AT&T Worldnet Services" are different divisions of the same corporation.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
that is not true with all TWC locations.
--
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

Just wait for AT&T to start doing redirects!
There is AT&T, and then there is AT&T. Are you referring to ATTIS? They are the AT&T residential Internet provider, comparable to Comcast. Or are you referring to the AT&T which provides hosting on a commercial basis. I can see the possibility for ATTIS to jump on this bandwagon, but not all of AT&T.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA


1 edit
said by bn1221 See Profile :

Real email hosts should use their own caching DNS or use business grade DNS that doesn't do a redirect. I use OpenDNS redirects but my email system hits ATT DNS directly. Bounced emails take less than 30 seconds.
In my experience, any sizable sending or receiving domain should typically have DNS servers that are dedicated to their mail application. In no small part this is to ensure that enough DNS query capacity is available exclusively to support the mail flow. You wouldn't want DNS queries for web surfing traffic (or whatever) to cause DNS queries from the mail servers to take too long or to time out and fail. Smaller domains should use non-redirecting DNS IPs, as another poster pointed out above.
--
JL
Comcast

espaeth
Digital Plumber
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Mail queued for days?

Come on, this isn't FidoNet -- you're not going to have to make hundreds of call attempts to get that message to a popular BBS.

A message sitting in a queue for more than 90 minutes is just pointlessly idiotic. Bounce the message as undeliverable and give the sender the option to take a different approach.

I'm not for DNS redirection at all, but arguing that implementing an unwise DNS configuration breaks an unwise MTA configuration is recockulous.
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

Re: Mail queued for days?

The MTA standard is to return a warning after 4 or 5 hours.
And return a failure after 5 or 4 days.

I want the warning in 4 or 5 seconds. Without DNS redirection, you can get the warning in 4-5 seconds.

espaeth
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2 edits

Re: Mail queued for days?

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

The MTA standard is to return a warning after 4 or 5 hours.
And return a failure after 5 or 4 days.
Most MTAs (Qmail, Postfix, Exim, Sendmail) have a single variable: maximum queue lifetime. No messages are sent back to the originating email user until the queue lifetime is exceeded.

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

I want the warning in 4 or 5 seconds. Without DNS redirection, you can get the warning in 4-5 seconds.
If you find that you are mistyping e-mail addresses enough for this to be an issue, you probably want to focus your effort on improving your typing accuracy.

Of course, this really only presents an issue for home users running their own mail server that are also using their ISP's DNS service with redirection. As long as the gtld and other top level domain servers remain redirect free the Internet is in fine shape.

Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
What if the destination server suffers a two hour downtime? Should the message bounce immediately, or provide a warning immediately and deliver it two hours later when the server is back up?

espaeth
Digital Plumber
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Re: Mail queued for days?

said by Guspaz See Profile :

What if the destination server suffers a two hour downtime?
Mail server redundancy is a pretty basic commodity these days. This can encompass everything from basic backup MX capability to replicated filesystems with DNS-based failover. Even the free providers offer this level of redundancy. For the hobbyist there are offerings like »www.rollernet.us/ who will provide free backup MX service.

said by Guspaz See Profile :

Should the message bounce immediately, or provide a warning immediately and deliver it two hours later when the server is back up?
Boucing the message tends to provide the clearest result, as users tend to resend on any kind of warning anyway.
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY

Re: Mail queued for days?

most users are stupid can call their IT savvy friends. I'd like to see NDRs just fall into the black hole of a bit bucket. Then again, I am a jerk
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

Glad ICANN is starting to take action

DNS redirection is forged/false information, and should be banned from the internet.
SixSpeed

join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online

Re: Glad ICANN is starting to take action

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

DNS redirection is forged/false information, and should be banned from the internet.
I agree, I find the practice to be deceptive and underhanded.
kieranmullen
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Portland, OR
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Re: Glad ICANN is starting to take action

People think it is ok when opendns.com does it? That is their business model and peopel have to voluntarily switch to their DNS.

Perhaps the point of contention is just users dont have a choice, but they do in many cases if they look into it.

said by SixSpeed See Profile :

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

DNS redirection is forged/false information, and should be banned from the internet.
I agree, I find the practice to be deceptive and underhanded.
--
KieranMullen »360oregon.com
kieranmullen
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The point is that they art not taking action. Like the UN.

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

DNS redirection is forged/false information, and should be banned from the internet.
--
KieranMullen »360oregon.com

phxmark
What Country Are We Living In?

join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ

Set up your own DNS

I set my own DNS server on my network to handle DNS requests. Don't have any issues with redirects.
--
High speed is dangerous. Too many MP3s, not enough time.

See 7 replies to this post

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

"destabilizing practice."?

call it what it REALLY IS. a cash grab!
Forums » ICANN Slams DNS Redirection


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