 
beeman65
join:2001-07-23
Greensburg, PA
clubs:
| Wiz I think it would be dumb not think that something like this would be leaked. They just reported it, not actually did the leaking themselves.
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Get Firefox. Join the new wave. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Is it really an attack? I can't believe Harry Potter fans would attack the site... more likely they'd be too busy downloading the torrent and squinting at the bad photos. I can believe enough of them would hit the site to _look_ like a DDoS, as in the Slashdot effect. | |
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jhawk44
join:2006-10-19
USA | Hacking Can't people be sent to jail for 2 years or have thier internet taken for 1 year? | |
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| stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO
 ·Comcast
| Re: My wife was one of them It is a really sad commentary on our moral decay in this country that people believe they can justify theft. Downloading the torrent also seeds this torrent so others can download from you. Your wife did essentially the same thing as if she ordered the book from say amazon.com then went over to the local Walmart and shopped lifted the book, after all she has the book on order right? What does this say to our children? If you feel the need to know what the book is about wait until it is released in book stores and buy a copy. Theft is theft even if it is an electronic copy on the Internet | |
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| | MightyPez
join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast
| Re: My wife was one of them Your knowledge of copyright law is astounding. I guess making a digital copy is theft now, even if physical property was not lost.
My own snarkyness aside, it irks me when people are so ignorant about the law regarding this issue. Yes, downloading/uploading copyrighted material is a crime. But it is not theft. It is copyright infringement. Theft entails depriving a party of physical property. Copyright infringement is distributing copyrighted material (i.e. a digital book) without permission from the copyright holder. Two very different crimes with different penalties.
This link provides a good breakdown of the difference. | |
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| | | stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO | Re: My wife was one of them Irk away become one with your "snarkyness", stealing books online is theft of Intellectual Property. I am sure your law degree keeps your from being one of the ignorant ones. Have a great day | |
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| | | | MightyPez
join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN | Re: My wife was one of them In spite of your sarcasm, you are correct. I do not hold a law degree. But I do have a basic grasp of US law that is taught in any high school civics class.
I am not trying to defend or justify the act in any way. But call it for what it is. | |
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| | | | | stevephl
join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO
·Comcast
| Re: My wife was one of them Actually I wasn't questioning your knowledge, I think that the issue could go either way or more likely both copy protection and theft charges could be levied. I graduated from H.S. over 35 years ago I'm lucky to even remember the name of the school any longer and I did not take any law classes in College.
I will agree that the copy right is being infringed as well. Thanks | |
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| | | | | | Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY | Re: My wife was one of them I don't think it's illegal if she bought the book.
Kind of how it's legal to download an MP3 if you own the cd.
You own the intelectual property, whats the big deal if you have a digital copy for personal use? | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
July 18th, @12:10PM
| It is a really sad commentary on our moral decay in this country that people believe they can justify copyright infringement. Downloading the torrent also seeds this torrent so others can download from you. Your wife did essentially the same thing as if she ordered a movie from say amazon.com then ripped a copy of the movie from Netflix, after all she has the movie on order right? What does this say to our children? If you feel the need to know what the book is about wait until it is released in book stores and buy a copy. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement even if it is an electronic copy on the Internet.
Same message. Different words. Don't get tied up splitting hairs.
I personally think all the hoopla is funny. Photographing the pages of a book? It's like a copy of a movie captured by some guy sitting in the back row with a cell phone camera. Yeah you may be able to see that it's a particular movie or book, but the quality is so atrocious why would anyone sit through 2 hours or 900 pages of such madness? True fans (and even most casual ones) probably are going to buy the book even if they downloaded it. Those that don't, probably weren't going to buy the book anyways. I'm not trying to justify the book being put up on the internet, but it's not the end of the world.
BTW, if you want to know who dies in the end its you didn't really think I was going to say, did you?
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Go Colts | |
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| | | | MightyPez
join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast
| Re: My wife was one of them said by cdru  :It is a really sad commentary on our moral decay in this country that people believe they can justify copyright infringement. I'm having a bit of trouble finding where in my post I justified either theft or copyright infringement. In fact, I believe I stated they are both crimes.
Much in the same way arson and drunk driving are both crimes. I don't condone either one, but I also don't call them the same thing. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: My wife was one of them said by MightyPez :I'm having a bit of trouble finding where in my post I justified either theft or copyright infringement. In fact, I believe I stated they are both crimes. Much in the same way arson and drunk driving are both crimes. I don't condone either one, but I also don't call them the same thing. I wasn't implying that you did. You were commenting on the technicality that copyright infringement is not the same as theft. Which you are correct. I just reposted what stevephl posted making a few minor tweaks. While what was said is different, it's still almost the exact same message.
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| | | | | | MightyPez
join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN | Re: My wife was one of them My bad, I thought the reply was directly to me. | |
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| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by cdru :While what was said is different, it's still almost the exact same message. Contextually, but not morally. Copyright infringement is simply not following legal code, but you aren't depriving anyone of anything physical (ie. theft). Saying infringement is in the same realm as theft (in terms of moral obligations) is like saying murder is akin to stealing.
Not to mention the OP has paid for a copy of the book already. Where exactly is the damage done, other than the OP doing something with his purchase that the content's author doesn't condone? | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: My wife was one of them said by AquaBlaze :said by cdru :While what was said is different, it's still almost the exact same message. Contextually, but not morally. Copyright infringement is simply not following legal code, but you aren't depriving anyone of anything physical (ie. theft). Saying infringement is in the same realm as theft (in terms of moral obligations) is like saying murder is akin to stealing. I don't believe I said anything about morals. Morals are very subjective and are in the eyes of the beholder. My guess is that J.K Rawlings and the publishers would have much rather had a single copy of their book stolen and deprived them of that $19.99 in revenue then to have one book not stolen, but had every page copied and distributed across the internet. They were not only protecting their financial interests in what they've spent developing the book, but also the overall interests of the franchise.
I won't argue with you that copyright infringement doesn't deprive someone of a physical object (be it money, property, etc). But copyright infringement and theft are closer to one another then your comparison of stealing to murder. All the above are illegal, from a strict moral standpoint all are bad. To what degree they are bad is up to the legal system. That is why we have difference classes of crimes as well as sentencing standards.
Not to mention the OP has paid for a copy of the book already. Where exactly is the damage done, other than the OP doing something with his purchase that the content's author doesn't condone? What did the OP purchase? He purchased a book that will be made available in a few days. He did not purchase the rights to obtain a copy by whatever means possible whenever he chose. Sure there is not real measurable amount of damage done. That is why copyright holders don't often go after people who merely download pirated content. They usually go after the ones that upload the content too. But that none the less makes it right.
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| | | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: My wife was one of them said by cdru :Not to mention the OP has paid for a copy of the book already. Where exactly is the damage done, other than the OP doing something with his purchase that the content's author doesn't condone? What did the OP purchase? He purchased a book that will be made available in a few days. He did not purchase the rights to obtain a copy by whatever means possible whenever he chose. *shrugs* Those two are in about the same to me. I personally don't feel anything when I'm downloading a CD that I've already purchased years ago.
Basically, I equate downloading content that you've paid for to purchasing IKEA furniture, but not assembling it in the manner the vendor specified. From a legal standpoint, I'm dead wrong...but from an aspect of morals, I feel I've already met my obligations by paying them.
I was more trying to address the people who were following up the OP with the "what morals are we teaching our children?!?" line. Copyright infringement != stealing. There's a reason for the difference in legal terms, and it's not just because using extra words is fun. | |
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| | | | | | | BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN
| Why does everyone try to claim "morals?" Define "morals" to everyone. How can a community have the same "morals" when a community is a collection of individuals?
I see nothing wrong in downloading software, music, movies, etc... All it is is a collection of 0s & 1s.
I don't approve of beastiality. Maybe you do. Who is right; who is wrong?
The only counter argument that can be offered against the morality issue is that we elect people to run our country based on the "moral" majority rules. However, you can easily see that the elected officials do not vote based on the morals of the people that elected them. They vote based on their morals. (See the illegal alien debate.) That argument falls flat.
It is awful easy to setback and claim the "moral" obligation has been broken by the downloaders. Yet, I bet you continually break some law, speeding, perhaps turning right before a complete stop, or, you are one of the bastards that dont wash their hands after using the toilet then tosses a salad for a waiting customer. Do you feel "morally" wrong? | |
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| | | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
edit:
July 18th, @02:15PM
| Re: My wife was one of them There are some certain morals that run through almost every culture. I can't say I've seen a whole lot of civilizations promote rampant stealing and/or murder, usually those things are frowned upon.
As for your example about bestiality being proper and otherwise, as history has shown, it just depends on who's on top. 
said by BVT :It is awful easy to setback and claim the "moral" obligation has been broken by the downloaders. I do feel that those that purely download umpteen volumes of modern-day garbage without any intent to pay should be clocked in the head. They should pay *something* to the artist/label for said amounts, or simply do without said pirated booty. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should.
However, do I believe the RIAA jingle that every download is a lost sale? That downloading (ie. copyright infringement) = stealing? Hell no.
said by BVT :Yet, I bet you continually break some law, speeding, perhaps turning right before a complete stop, or, you are one of the bastards that dont wash their hands after using the toilet then tosses a salad for a waiting customer. Do you feel "morally" wrong? To answer your questions:
I don't feel "bad" about going ~5 MPH over the speed limit, no. I can handle my car, know the terrain, and haven't been in an accident (or even close to one) because of it. No, I don't feel bad as it's a victimless "crime".
As for salads, yes, I would feel bad. If my job is to toss salads and I don't practice expected hygiene, then I'm royally screwing over a job that I voluntarily signed up for. Would I feel bad from a moral standpoint? Not nearly as much as I feel the shame from being crappy at such a simple job. I like to take pride in my work. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Xizer
join:2004-02-05
Kenosha, WI
edit:
July 18th, @03:37PM
| Re: My wife was one of them There are some certain morals that run through almost every culture. I can't say I've seen a whole lot of civilizations promote rampant stealing and/or murder, usually those things are frowned upon.
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| | | | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: My wife was one of them And your point is? Warring factions see one another as a threat, and with such, moral ideals go out the window. Hell, murder is wrong, but you'd bet your sweet ass we expect a US soldier is going to shoot an insurgent taking a bead on him.
I don't think all of Africa adopts a "shoot whomever, it's all good" policy, as much as you'd like to infer with the picture. | |
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| | | | | | | | | BVT
join:2004-10-25
Mount Juliet, TN
| Good comebacks for all of those. Bravo
The moral issue aggravates me. I bet most people that have grown up with PCs do not view downloading stuff as a crime. Since most of those people do not vote, nothing much will change until the current "for the companies" cronies are voted out, or die, which ever comes first. | |
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nipseyrussel
Nipsey Russell, yo
join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA
| this revised version is much more accurate, but by rewriting the part that you didnt bold for some reason ("ripped a copy of the movie from Netflix" vs shoplifting at Walmart) you point out that the two courses are, indeed, more different than just splitting hairs. In the previous example, walmart is out the cost of the book. In the other example, neither party is harmed:
-netflix doesn't lose any money, and in fact you paid them for their subscription in order to do this, so they are actually UP
-the harry potter supply chain is paid by the wife for the book.
so regardless of whether a copyright was infringed, all 3 parties involved actually come out ahead in this example and the wife need not feel that her morals are in a sorry state | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by stevephl :It is a really sad commentary on our moral decay in this country that people believe they can justify theft. Downloading the torrent also seeds this torrent so others can download from you. Your wife did essentially the same thing as if she ordered the book from say amazon.com then went over to the local Walmart and shopped lifted the book, after all she has the book on order right? What does this say to our children? If you feel the need to know what the book is about wait until it is released in book stores and buy a copy. Theft is theft even if it is an electronic copy on the Internet She deleted the torrent after is was completed so she was only seeding for the few minutes it took to download it.
Besides whats the difference here? She could have waited a few days and scanned the book her self and you would have been ok with it? But since she downloaded it that somehow makes her a shoplifter? 
The sad comentary is people like you living in your glass houses and throwing stones. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Copyright infringement is not theft. Get over yourself. | |
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| yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | I'm surprised that so many people would want to download the crummy pictures of the book instead of just reading it. I'm no fan of those books but I'd think a true fan would not want to do that. | |
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jehu
dejapoo
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA
·Comcast
| Activism Hmm yes, activism can work both ways. The entitlement freaks who think the world of data should be theirs for the (free) taking, and (much fewer) Gurdian Angels out there who want to slap the delusion out of the former.
I can't say I really support DDOS attacks, but what the heck.
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U Rappin' Good! | |
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| ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
moderated:
July 18th, @12:47PM
| Re: Activism said by jehu :Hmm yes, activism can work both ways. The entitlement freaks who think the world of data should be theirs for the (free) taking, and (much fewer) Gurdian Angels out there who want to slap the delusion out of the former. I can't say I really support DDOS attacks, but what the heck. Of course, the point of the OP is that the website posting a news article about the fact the Potter book having been leaked to the torrent sites is under legal attack for posting a news item (you know, reportage, journalism, free press, etc.), and from fanatic zealots who are breaking the law by trying to take down a legitimate website via DDoS attack (highly illegal). None of this has to do with copyright infringement (which is NOT theft, BTW), but that doesn't seem to cut any ice with you non-thinking morally righteous "saviors of mankind" wannabes. Wise up. | |
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jehu
dejapoo
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA
moderated:
July 18th, @12:48PM
| Re: Activism Hi! Try reading the OP and try again. I think you were too busy trying to insult people.
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U Rappin' Good! | |
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
moderated:
July 18th, @12:49PM
| Re: Activism said by jehu :Hi! Try reading the OP and try again. I think you were too busy trying to insult people. You cannot be serious! I think you should re-read the OP, and all the horseshit tossed about by those who do not get the point that the website has done NOTHING WRONG in reporting on the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS LEAK of the Potter book being present on torrent sites. They did not infringe the copyright of the Potter book, they merely reported about it.
Reportage of the news is covered by the Constitution and Bill of Rights, a couple of other documents you ought to consider reading sometime. The copyright holder of the Potter book has NO AUTHORITY to request the news article be removed from the website, PERIOD! Reportage of facts is NOT copyright infringement, nor an inducement to infringe copyright.
As for the lame-o's involved with the attempted take-down of the site by unlawful means, I hope they are identified, and suffer the consequences for their actions. I hope all "copyright nazis" suffer a torturous eternity in hell. | |
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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
edit:
July 18th, @11:17AM
| HAHA I'm getting the book from my local library for free. They even let me put it on hold like 3 months ago 0_o I won't read it but me wife will I'll just get her to tell me what happens.
HAHA take that book writers no money from TOPDAWG today. Also looking at the movies I would never buy a harry potter book its the same damn story every time.
While I liked the new movie not a damn thing happened and nothing moved forward. | |
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| Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: HAHA said by TOPDAWG :I'll just get her to tell me what happens. So you have no morals at all? You do realize its illegal to steal right? | |
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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
edit:
July 18th, @01:38PM
| Re: HAHA Huh? I'm getting the book from my local library. Far as I know that is legal. I put it on hold like 2 months ago so I should get it the week it comes out or the week after. After my wife reads it I'll get her to tell me how it ended.
Whats unmoral about that? The hell you talking about? Also yes I'd like to think I have good morels I do volunteer at the salvation army food bank 3 times a week.
HAHA I'm going to spoil the book anyway. They will be in class sometimes and harry will be told not to do something and he will do it anyway. The book will have many a plot point that does not go any place. HAHA take that. | |
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| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
| The lack of reading comprehension is frightening. | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL | After reading the first 30 pages from the torrents I think people will crave the book more and just go out and buy it instead of having to squint | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: After reading the first 30 pages said by odreian615 :from the torrents I think people will crave the book more and just go out and buy it instead of having to squint Ya and don't forget the extreme eye strain, and headache.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
|  No longer on the p2p bandwagon
But now with the Harry Potter rip, this isn't just some isolated violation of copyright anymore. This is Harry Potter. And I haven't even read a damn one of the books, so I'm not even sure why I feel so strongly about it. Perhaps its because my kids are big fans. But if we can't respect the creative process that brings us Harry Potter, then what can we respect?
Up until now I was willing to suspend judgement on p2p. I think those days are over. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: No longer on the p2p bandwagon said by disc :But now with the Harry Potter rip, this isn't just some isolated violation of copyright anymore. This is Harry Potter. And I haven't even read a damn one of the books, so I'm not even sure why I feel so strongly about it. Perhaps its because my kids are big fans. But if we can't respect the creative process that brings us Harry Potter, then what can we respect? The thing is though that still doesn't justify an attack on a site that simply discusses the fact that it is out there. As well, if we're protecting copyright then you must protect all of it, not just be concerned because "oh this time it is Harry Potter!"
Besides, the point that I think gets lost on all of this is: where did the person who posted the original torrent get the book from? After all if it is so secret & all? Just like the film & music folks out to rail against the public for downloading it, howabout the dude who put it up there to begin with. Likely an inside job. Stop the leak there and some of this would stop, or at least be slowed down.
JK won't lose much of anything over this, although of course she's concerned about the marketability of her brand. Still, this means very little in the long run. They're still going to rake it in.
Although I guess they do need to find a way to come up with the $50mil they're paying Daniel over the last two films.
K.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON | I can respect good cops, solders who give their lives for freedom and people who help their follow human beings. I could give a god damn about writers actors movie makers or artiest I'll never respect them for doing a job. | |
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tcp1
Premium
join:2000-04-17
Herndon, VA
 ·T-Mobile US
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Bandwidth.com
·Vonage
·Cox HSI
| Re: No longer on the p2p bandwagon said by TOPDAWG :I can respect good cops, solders who give their lives for freedom and people who help their follow human beings. I could give a god damn about writers actors movie makers or artiest I'll never respect them for doing a job. Yeah, um.. well I guess writing is kind of an acquired skill, eh?
So basically you're saying that people who don't risk their lives or don't do "manly" jobs deserve no respect. That's awesome.
If that's the case, then what is it exactly this "freedom" that your cops and soldiers are trying to protect? The freedom to be.. cops and soldiers? Funny, I thought that had something to do with protecting freedoms of expression and thoughts and ideas, exemplified by "arteist" and writers. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's all about a crying eagle bumper sticker.
The problem is, I think the "theft is theft and it is black and white and that is that and you will go to hell for ripping an MP3" folks are just as nutzoid as you are being here.
Man, moderation and reasoned thinking are rare things indeed lately, ain't they. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| News = bad? I think the point was that the site was supposedly being attacked, not for posting or making the PDF available but rather simply stating that it was available somewhere.
While I can see the point of the publisher in asking that they not discuss that, honestly, I don't see any legal reason why they can't. Although suffice it to say that somewhere they'll probably pull a DMCA thing or whatever to try and have it barred.
I also don't see where anyone has any business launching said attack due to that news. What if Cnet had posted that it was available or some such thing? Would the commentary be the same?
Doubt it.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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| dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
| Re: News = bad? said by GlobalMind :I think the point was that the site was supposedly being attacked, not for posting or making the PDF available but rather simply stating that it was available somewhere. While I can see the point of the publisher in asking that they not discuss that, honestly, I don't see any legal reason why they can't. Although suffice it to say that somewhere they'll probably pull a DMCA thing or whatever to try and have it barred. I also don't see where anyone has any business launching said attack due to that news. What if Cnet had posted that it was available or some such thing? Would the commentary be the same? Doubt it. It would be interesting the see the same involved parties attempt a DDoS on CNET though. Anybody mirrored the article yet? Hell, if all it does is not that it was leaked, it sounds like a good Wikipedia entry. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: News = bad? said by dentman42 :said by GlobalMind :I also don't see where anyone has any business launching said attack due to that news. What if Cnet had posted that it was available or some such thing? Would the commentary be the same? Doubt it. It would be interesting the see the same involved parties attempt a DDoS on CNET though. Anybody mirrored the article yet? Hell, if all it does is not that it was leaked, it sounds like a good Wikipedia entry. Good question. I don't know if it has been mirrored elsewhere but I know the mainline outlets have certainly ran stories of same type before.
K.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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herb77
join:2005-02-23
Fort Myers, FL | People who read Harry Potter have no lives Who cares, grow up. It's just a kid book. And a lame one at that. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: People who read Harry Potter have no lives said by herb77 :Who cares, grow up. It's just a kid book. And a lame one at that. "A lame one at that."???
Sound like someone read the books. | |
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Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY | Just how bad is the quality? Can the whole thing be read? It would be a bit suspect if the quality got worse and worse until after about 30 pages it couldn't be read any more. Heh. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Just how bad is the quality? Yes you can download HP7 in about 8 mins but it is an incredible waste of time. It is almost unreadable. I'll pick up my copy of the book and CD set at about 12:05 am Saturday.
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Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
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My wife was one of them
