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Google Wireless -- Via Balloon?
Slow data rates from balloons launched by dairy farmers? Good luck with that.

Google is considering teaming up with Space Data Corporation on a project that would have them sending balloons 20 miles into the stratosphere in order to provide wireless broadband and phone service to the connectivity deprived. Space Data Corp. already launches 10 balloons a day across the Southern U.S., providing specialized telecom services to truckers and oil companies. Their technology is also being used by the U.S. Air Force.

Google is considering either contracting with the firm or buying the company


outright, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal. Since Space data consistently needs to launch new balloons (one of which they claim covers as many as 40 cell towers), they hire mechanics at small Southern airports, and pay dairy farmers $50 per launch.
quote:
Sharon Hodges, a 60-year-old cattle-and-wheat farmer in Piedmont, Okla., and part-time balloon launcher, says she doesn't know much about technology but liked the extra pocket money. Every day just before sunset, she unfolds a deflated balloon, attaches it to a hydrogen tank and inflates it to about 6 feet in diameter. Then she hitches the electronic payload to the balloon, walks it through the 16-foot-tall double doors of her barn, and lets go of it.
The hydrogen-filled balloons rise at 1,000 feet a minute and hit 65,000 to 100,000 feet in under two hours. When the balloons are no longer useful, the transceiver parachutes to earth and Space Corp. pays $100 for each one recovered. Additional technical specifics are available here, which suggest we're not talking about very impressive bandwidth -- at least in its current form.

Dairy farmers launching sluggish telecom equipment via balloons packed with hydrogen on a mass scale, with random people recovering fallen equipment as latex bits cover the landscape? What could go wrong? Hey, keep in mind that Google has also invested into that eternally dysfunctional broadband technology known as broadband over powerline. Somebody might want to stick to ads and search lest that stock price deflates and falls to earth.
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topics flat nest 
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy

Member

Farmers launching hydrogen?

When will we see headlines about Google blowing things up (like Verizon)?

Mark

antwanp
Lovably Pompous
Premium Member
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX

antwanp

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.

-Antwan L.

UglyDork
Premium Member
join:2002-01-09
Buffalo, NY

UglyDork

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

said by antwanp:

A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.

-Antwan L.
Except for the falling transceiver.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

said by UglyDork:
said by antwanp:

A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.

-Antwan L.
Except for the falling transceiver.
It parachutes down. Little to no danger.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

1 recommendation

jester121

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Fireproof parachutes I hope?
Zerny
join:2007-05-04
Fort Gratiot, MI

Zerny

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Hey they did it with the Apollo missions when we faked the moon landing im sure getting the transceiver down wont be a problem

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to UglyDork

Premium Member

to UglyDork
said by UglyDork:
said by antwanp:

A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.

-Antwan L.
Except for the falling transceiver.
it'd probably burn up in the atmosphere. nothing usable to recover.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 edit

jc10098 to antwanp

Member

to antwanp
dupe post. DELETE
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy to antwanp

Member

to antwanp
said by antwanp:

A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.
I was thinking more about the farmer pre-release, or the ballon that eventually returns to the ground with at least some hydrogen (but not enough to overcome the weight of the baloon).

When I was 8 years old me and some friends created some hydrogen using two anodes in a glass of water. We created enough to inflate a small (toy) balloon a small amount. We went out in the school yard and stood in a circle flicking matches at it. All I remember is all of us standing there, stunned, spitting debris out of our mouths.

Mark
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098 to amigo_boy

Member

to amigo_boy
Amigo never ceases to amaze me. Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split. We have hydrogen fuel and cars. Trust me, they aren't atom bombs waiting to happen. Hydrogen itself is safe until modfied to split the atom. Hence, your question /statement is a but on the absurd side. Nothing that surprises me though.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

said by jc10098:

Amigo never ceases to amaze me. Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split. We have hydrogen fuel and cars. Trust me, they aren't atom bombs waiting to happen. Hydrogen itself is safe until modfied to split the atom. Hence, your question /statement is a but on the absurd side. Nothing that surprises me though.
»revver.com/video/129972/ ··· alloons/

»www.metacafe.com/watch/3 ··· isaster/
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

This is not PURE HYDROGEN. I took physics. Maybe you'll find this link interesting and informative. Hydrogen MUST MIX with oxygen and have an ignition to burn. Otherwise, ITS NOT EXPLOSIVE. See explanation.

»www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm

Yauch
join:2005-06-24

Yauch

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Good thing there isn't much Oxygen floating around in the atmosphere.

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

2 recommendations

Raptor to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy ··· mbustion

All those who were aboard the Hindenburg urge you to take or retake chemistry.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 edit

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smartass. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS:

1) OXYGEN
2) IGNITION SOURCE

Pure hydrogen WITHOUT THOSE TWO ELEMENTS DOES NOT BURN. Hence, I urge you to learn a bit before you speak and pretend to be smart. Some of US PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS during our years in school. OTHERS DID NOT (YOU)

»www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

1 edit

amigo_boy

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

said by jc10098:

I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smarta$$. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS:

1) OXYGEN
2) IGNITION SOURCE
I'll remember this the next time you go off against private gun ownership. ("Hydrogen doesn't kill people, people kill people.").



Mark
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Where the heck does that apply here? Also, people do kill people. An inanimate object DOES NOT do anything without human or some other intervention. As with the case of hydrogen, as you OBVIOUSLY did not know. Off topic to the gun issue, people own guns. People use guns. Therefore, it doesn't matter if a gun in it's natural state doesn't kill. People are the ones who use them (as per their intent). Therefore people + guns do kill. Guns cannot kill on their own. Therefore, you justifiably regulate people on buying of guns, since the "guns themselves... IE inanimate object" are not the culprit.

james16
join:2001-02-26

1 recommendation

james16 to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
Stop waving your fancy high school edumacashun in our faces!

No, but seriously, you're getting pretty worked up for nothing. There obviously is a danger with even pure helium if the balloons are torn or drift somewhere they shouldn't.
Just because the hydrogen isn't mixed with oxygen at the moment, that ignores the fact that if the thin skin of the balloon tears there is an IMMEDIATE source of oxygen, and depending on where this tear occurrs, there may be an ignition source nearby.

Luckily the only real danger is to the farmers who are probably smoking while filling the "flyin internets robots" up.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 edit

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Actually, the guy was being a jerk about it =) So I had to school him. As per the rip, it's unlikely All three elements would come together. Seriously, there'd have to be a tear in the balloon and a spark to ignite it once oxygen and hydrogen mixed. That's pretty unlikely. I guess if lightning struck it, that MIGHT be possible, but highly improbable. Anyhow, the risk to the farmer is minimal unless he or she is DUMB ENOUGH to be smoking while launching said balloons (as per your comment). In that case, yes, you might have Hindenburg and a toasty farmer pending a sizable leak was present and enough hydrogen and oxygen mixed. Once again, it would be HIGHLY UNLIKELY for such an event to occur.

james16
join:2001-02-26

1 edit

james16

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

I'm not sure how much hydrogen they have left in them when they come down, but if it's enough to cause some damage I'd be worried about it getting snagged on high tension power lines, tearing and an arc happening (how does hydrogen compare to air as a conductor?) or doing the same in one of those outdoor power distribution places.

I do think all of us must agree that if it blew up in the air (doesnt matter how), the most dangerous part would be the falling payload and not the explosion itself.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Pretty much. I'm not a scientist, I just remember College physics where I learned this stuff. Amazing I remember it, too. I guess I did pay attention, and this useless knowledge stays with you. As per the risk, yes its minimal. I mean all and all, there would have to be a lot of misfortune for such a disaster to occur. The biggest risk would be from the payload falling and striking someone or something. I mean I am sure that MAYBE one of these balloons can be under the rare conditions to explode. Most likely, it'd happen in the air as you said. If the balloon deflated and landed on a power line, I suspect it'd be fine. I am no expert but I THINK (and I might be wrong because I'm not the electrician in the family), that power lines themselves are not charged unless said wires are exposed. IE, what we see on the lines are wires within insulation. Therefore, the balloon would have to land or break a powerline, for such an event to occur. Being I doubt they are heavy, this is very unlikely.

james16
join:2001-02-26

james16

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

High tension power lines are not insulated, but the lines are kept very far apart to protect from arcing. A great number of the older residential area power lines have the insulation sloughing off, the leads going to the transformers (they look like garbage cans) are often exposed as well. It would be easier than you think to get a nice arc out of them, especially on a windy day, with something wrapped around them.

Yauch
join:2005-06-24

Yauch to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
Don't forget the fact that all 3 would have an extremely short window of time to come togther.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas to jc10098

Premium Member

to jc10098
Yes hydrogen must be mixed with air/oxygen to be explosive. And yes it needs an ignition source. So technically it's a "flammable gas".

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po to jc10098

Premium Member

to jc10098
So which is it?
said by jc10098:

HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS:

1) OXYGEN
2) IGNITION SOURCE
or
said by jc10098:

Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split.
I'm confused...
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

2 edits

jc10098

Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

Ever heard of E= MC2 that was Einsteins formula for splitting the atom and making it explosive. Hence, the term splitting the atom or why the bomb in WW2 was a HYDROGEN BOMB.

As per the necessary tools to make this happen via nature:

The burning process in the case of oxygen and hydrogen is relatively simple. If you put together suitable volumes of hydrogen and oxygen and provide a spark to start the reaction, one oxygen atom will combine with two hydrogen atoms, and will release energy in the process. The energy gets released in the form of molecular kinetic energy, and since the motion is random, this is exactly what we call heat energy. The gases heat up, and as all expanding gases do, they expand. That fast expansion of hot gases is what we call "an explosion".

There you go. Maybe you should have read the article and YOU WOULD NOT BE CONFUSED.

P.S. Don't quit your day job. Stay in school Please.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?

So the answer is both?

P.S. I don't plan of quiting my day job. It affords me time to read what stupid people post on internet forums.
bcoleman71
join:2007-09-18
Dallas, TX

1 edit

bcoleman71 to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
I know this is OT, but your facts are wrong. The bomb in WW2 was a FISSION bomb made by SPLITTING atoms of Uranium 235. The Hydrogen bomb is a FUSION bomb, made by FUSING two hydrogen atoms together.

--Edit for clarity

Yauch
join:2005-06-24

Yauch to jc10098

Member

to jc10098
Again, it's a good thing these balloons won't be carrying electronic devices or any sort of power source that could cause a spark.

no_one
@PHNX.QWEST.NET

no_one to jc10098

Anon

to jc10098
n
said by jc10098:

I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smartass. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS:

1) OXYGEN
2) IGNITION SOURCE

Pure hydrogen WITHOUT THOSE TWO ELEMENTS DOES NOT BURN. Hence, I urge you to learn a bit before you speak and pretend to be smart. Some of US PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS during our years in school. OTHERS DID NOT (YOU)

»www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm
Yes now I do not know if what Amigo did could work or not. But some hydrogen in a toy leaking balloon with matches thrown at it could ignite. Now the memories of a young child saying picking stuff out of the mouth etc. is young kids memories. Not I was taken to the hospital with major burns and barely lived.
If it did work and happen probably a small fire and standing way too close as kids at that age do. So long ago memories are exaggerated not wrong.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po to jc10098

Premium Member

to jc10098
LOL

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

atuarre

Premium Member

Why not....

just buy dirigibles and have them cover specific points in certain areas to provide access? Why all this launching balloons and retrieving transceivers.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Blimpband

Here we go with blimpband again. Every time someone gets this idea it is to "provide wireless broadband and phone service to the connectivity deprived", where there is precious little money to be made and even less of a demand for high-priced "service".

This one is not WiFi, nor is it broadband by even the FCC's definition:

General
RF Protocol: ReFLEX 2.7
Tx Frequency: 896–902 MHz
Rx Frequency: 929–932, 935–942 MHz
ReFLEX data rates: 800 – 9600 bps
Serial protocols: Space Data serial

Yes, that is bits per second.

••••••••

Asiabound
Ex-Pat
Premium Member
join:2002-12-21
Mabinay

Asiabound

Premium Member

Quote: "What's more, it's safe."

*wham!*

hdman
Flt Rider
Premium Member
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI

hdman

Premium Member

SCADA now, perhaps Broadband later....

Currently, the main use for this technology is SCADA systems for remote monitoring of processes or systems. However, with big bucks from Google, I don't see why they couldn't expand the capability to include actual wireless broadband....

I see it as another chance to get connectivity to the rural areas...so I think it's pretty cool!

HDMan

•••••••

Won who kn0ws
@pagenet.com

Won who kn0ws

Anon

Get out your . . .

Hayes 300 baud modem for high bandwidth than SpaceData can provide.....6 lb max cargo for these balloons....what kind of pipe can you provide with that if it includes battery/antenna/housing.

SpaceData currently is small potatoes/miniscule bandwidth...new batch of sticky red bud must be going around in the Google Boardroom
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Balloons in the sky??

..... for what purpose...? Based on the technology it looks to be offering, I'm thinking this project is actually pretty good... for supplying the US Military has target practice before shooting down the failing spy satellite?

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

What about the birds?

We cut down their nesting areas and now we try to take over their flight paths

•••••••
number_one
join:2001-11-30
Midlothian, VA

number_one

Member

Better idea

I heard a better idea several years ago about a company that was looking into making an agreement with the National Weather Service and attaching similar equipment to the weather balloons. Since the logistics of all the balloon launching is already done (and because the balloons will be launched anyway for weather tracking) it is a much less risky enterprise.

I don't know why nothing ever came of it, although it doesn't surprise me. The government never has been too keen on efficiency...

silverfox09
@ikminc.com

silverfox09

Anon

how about...

attach a small hydrogen generator to the ballons and make them last a LONG time. Have ballons floating all over the stratosphere.
silverfox09

silverfox09

Anon

old news

»64.236.91.51/magazines/f ··· ndex.htm

keeps coming around

Blazing Star
@63.226.39.x

Blazing Star

Anon

Space Data

If all you small minded people would just stop and look at what is going on in the world you would see the need for Space Data Communications. Read about them in the website. You may need them someday when you state has a catastrophy and there is no means of calling your loved ones because your cell tower was knocked down. My advise to you: Read, learn adn understand before opening your mouth and being so negative.
Blazing Star

Blazing Star

Anon

If all you small minded people would just stop and look at what is going on in the world you would see the need for Space Data Communications. Read about them in the website. You may need them someday when you state has a catastrophy and there is no means of calling your loved ones because your cell tower was knocked down. My advise to you: Read, learn and understand before opening your mouth and being so negative.

monkeytripper
Premium Member
join:2000-12-21
Chandler, AZ

monkeytripper

Premium Member

Well I am not sure if this will take off for broadband here in the US, but a friend of mine deployed in Afghanistan said that the Special Forces guys use something else made by this company for communications. It lets them use their normal radios that go 10-15 miles in flat areas with no mountains, and lets them talk hundreds of miles with no special equipment. One of the reasons they are using it is because it works good in mountains valleys where satellites get blocked. So the concept really does work, I just think there would be a problem with the transmission power from the device on the ground to it in the air. It would be sweet if they really did get this to work though. Free Google wifi everywhere!!!!