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Farmers launching hydrogen?When will we see headlines about Google blowing things up (like Verizon)?
Mark | |
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| antwanpLovably Pompous Premium Member join:2002-05-14 Cedar Hill, TX |
antwanp
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 2:08 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground.
-Antwan L. | |
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| | UglyDork Premium Member join:2002-01-09 Buffalo, NY |
UglyDork
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 2:14 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?said by antwanp:A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground. -Antwan L. Except for the falling transceiver. | |
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| | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 2:26 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?said by UglyDork:said by antwanp:A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground. -Antwan L. Except for the falling transceiver. It parachutes down. Little to no danger. | |
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| | | | jester121 Premium Member join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Fireproof parachutes I hope? | |
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| | | | | Zerny join:2007-05-04 Fort Gratiot, MI |
Zerny
Member
2008-Feb-20 7:33 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Hey they did it with the Apollo missions when we faked the moon landing im sure getting the transceiver down wont be a problem | |
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| | | dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
to UglyDork
said by UglyDork:said by antwanp:A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground. -Antwan L. Except for the falling transceiver. it'd probably burn up in the atmosphere. nothing usable to recover. | |
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to antwanp
said by antwanp:A hydrogen balloon igniting that high up would burn up so fast that it wouldn't be of any danger to people on the ground. I was thinking more about the farmer pre-release, or the ballon that eventually returns to the ground with at least some hydrogen (but not enough to overcome the weight of the baloon). When I was 8 years old me and some friends created some hydrogen using two anodes in a glass of water. We created enough to inflate a small (toy) balloon a small amount. We went out in the school yard and stood in a circle flicking matches at it. All I remember is all of us standing there, stunned, spitting debris out of our mouths. Mark | |
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to amigo_boy
Amigo never ceases to amaze me. Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split. We have hydrogen fuel and cars. Trust me, they aren't atom bombs waiting to happen. Hydrogen itself is safe until modfied to split the atom. Hence, your question /statement is a but on the absurd side. Nothing that surprises me though. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?said by jc10098:Amigo never ceases to amaze me. Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split. We have hydrogen fuel and cars. Trust me, they aren't atom bombs waiting to happen. Hydrogen itself is safe until modfied to split the atom. Hence, your question /statement is a but on the absurd side. Nothing that surprises me though. » revver.com/video/129972/ ··· alloons/» www.metacafe.com/watch/3 ··· isaster/ | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?This is not PURE HYDROGEN. I took physics. Maybe you'll find this link interesting and informative. Hydrogen MUST MIX with oxygen and have an ignition to burn. Otherwise, ITS NOT EXPLOSIVE. See explanation. » www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm | |
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Yauch
Member
2008-Feb-20 6:23 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Good thing there isn't much Oxygen floating around in the atmosphere. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smartass. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS: 1) OXYGEN 2) IGNITION SOURCE Pure hydrogen WITHOUT THOSE TWO ELEMENTS DOES NOT BURN. Hence, I urge you to learn a bit before you speak and pretend to be smart. Some of US PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS during our years in school. OTHERS DID NOT (YOU) » www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?said by jc10098:I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smarta$$. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS: 1) OXYGEN 2) IGNITION SOURCE I'll remember this the next time you go off against private gun ownership. ("Hydrogen doesn't kill people, people kill people."). Mark | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Where the heck does that apply here? Also, people do kill people. An inanimate object DOES NOT do anything without human or some other intervention. As with the case of hydrogen, as you OBVIOUSLY did not know. Off topic to the gun issue, people own guns. People use guns. Therefore, it doesn't matter if a gun in it's natural state doesn't kill. People are the ones who use them (as per their intent). Therefore people + guns do kill. Guns cannot kill on their own. Therefore, you justifiably regulate people on buying of guns, since the "guns themselves... IE inanimate object" are not the culprit. | |
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to jc10098
Stop waving your fancy high school edumacashun in our faces!
No, but seriously, you're getting pretty worked up for nothing. There obviously is a danger with even pure helium if the balloons are torn or drift somewhere they shouldn't. Just because the hydrogen isn't mixed with oxygen at the moment, that ignores the fact that if the thin skin of the balloon tears there is an IMMEDIATE source of oxygen, and depending on where this tear occurrs, there may be an ignition source nearby.
Luckily the only real danger is to the farmers who are probably smoking while filling the "flyin internets robots" up. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Actually, the guy was being a jerk about it =) So I had to school him. As per the rip, it's unlikely All three elements would come together. Seriously, there'd have to be a tear in the balloon and a spark to ignite it once oxygen and hydrogen mixed. That's pretty unlikely. I guess if lightning struck it, that MIGHT be possible, but highly improbable. Anyhow, the risk to the farmer is minimal unless he or she is DUMB ENOUGH to be smoking while launching said balloons (as per your comment). In that case, yes, you might have Hindenburg and a toasty farmer pending a sizable leak was present and enough hydrogen and oxygen mixed. Once again, it would be HIGHLY UNLIKELY for such an event to occur. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?I'm not sure how much hydrogen they have left in them when they come down, but if it's enough to cause some damage I'd be worried about it getting snagged on high tension power lines, tearing and an arc happening (how does hydrogen compare to air as a conductor?) or doing the same in one of those outdoor power distribution places.
I do think all of us must agree that if it blew up in the air (doesnt matter how), the most dangerous part would be the falling payload and not the explosion itself. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Pretty much. I'm not a scientist, I just remember College physics where I learned this stuff. Amazing I remember it, too. I guess I did pay attention, and this useless knowledge stays with you. As per the risk, yes its minimal. I mean all and all, there would have to be a lot of misfortune for such a disaster to occur. The biggest risk would be from the payload falling and striking someone or something. I mean I am sure that MAYBE one of these balloons can be under the rare conditions to explode. Most likely, it'd happen in the air as you said. If the balloon deflated and landed on a power line, I suspect it'd be fine. I am no expert but I THINK (and I might be wrong because I'm not the electrician in the family), that power lines themselves are not charged unless said wires are exposed. IE, what we see on the lines are wires within insulation. Therefore, the balloon would have to land or break a powerline, for such an event to occur. Being I doubt they are heavy, this is very unlikely. | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?High tension power lines are not insulated, but the lines are kept very far apart to protect from arcing. A great number of the older residential area power lines have the insulation sloughing off, the leads going to the transformers (they look like garbage cans) are often exposed as well. It would be easier than you think to get a nice arc out of them, especially on a windy day, with something wrapped around them. | |
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to jc10098
Don't forget the fact that all 3 would have an extremely short window of time to come togther. | |
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to jc10098
Yes hydrogen must be mixed with air/oxygen to be explosive. And yes it needs an ignition source. So technically it's a "flammable gas". | |
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| | | | Lark3po Premium Member join:2003-08-05 Madison, AL |
to jc10098
So which is it? said by jc10098:HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS: 1) OXYGEN 2) IGNITION SOURCE or said by jc10098: Hydrogen IS NOT explosive unless the atom is split. I'm confused... | |
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Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?Ever heard of E= MC2 that was Einsteins formula for splitting the atom and making it explosive. Hence, the term splitting the atom or why the bomb in WW2 was a HYDROGEN BOMB.
As per the necessary tools to make this happen via nature:
The burning process in the case of oxygen and hydrogen is relatively simple. If you put together suitable volumes of hydrogen and oxygen and provide a spark to start the reaction, one oxygen atom will combine with two hydrogen atoms, and will release energy in the process. The energy gets released in the form of molecular kinetic energy, and since the motion is random, this is exactly what we call heat energy. The gases heat up, and as all expanding gases do, they expand. That fast expansion of hot gases is what we call "an explosion".
There you go. Maybe you should have read the article and YOU WOULD NOT BE CONFUSED.
P.S. Don't quit your day job. Stay in school Please. | |
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| | | | | | Lark3po Premium Member join:2003-08-05 Madison, AL |
Lark3po
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 5:19 pm
Re: Farmers launching hydrogen?So the answer is both? P.S. I don't plan of quiting my day job. It affords me time to read what stupid people post on internet forums. | |
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to jc10098
I know this is OT, but your facts are wrong. The bomb in WW2 was a FISSION bomb made by SPLITTING atoms of Uranium 235. The Hydrogen bomb is a FUSION bomb, made by FUSING two hydrogen atoms together.
--Edit for clarity | |
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to jc10098
Again, it's a good thing these balloons won't be carrying electronic devices or any sort of power source that could cause a spark. | |
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no_one to jc10098
Anon
2008-Feb-20 10:22 pm
to jc10098
n said by jc10098:I urge you to go back to school and learn a bit more before being a smartass. As I told the poster above, HYDROGEN IS NOT EXPLOSIVE WITHOUT TWO THINGS: 1) OXYGEN 2) IGNITION SOURCE Pure hydrogen WITHOUT THOSE TWO ELEMENTS DOES NOT BURN. Hence, I urge you to learn a bit before you speak and pretend to be smart. Some of US PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS during our years in school. OTHERS DID NOT (YOU) » www.physlink.com/Educati ··· e575.cfm Yes now I do not know if what Amigo did could work or not. But some hydrogen in a toy leaking balloon with matches thrown at it could ignite. Now the memories of a young child saying picking stuff out of the mouth etc. is young kids memories. Not I was taken to the hospital with major burns and barely lived. If it did work and happen probably a small fire and standing way too close as kids at that age do. So long ago memories are exaggerated not wrong. | |
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atuarreHere come the drums Premium Member join:2004-02-14 EC/SETX SWLA |
atuarre
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 2:14 pm
Why not....just buy dirigibles and have them cover specific points in certain areas to provide access? Why all this launching balloons and retrieving transceivers. | |
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BlimpbandHere we go with blimpband again. Every time someone gets this idea it is to "provide wireless broadband and phone service to the connectivity deprived", where there is precious little money to be made and even less of a demand for high-priced "service". This one is not WiFi, nor is it broadband by even the FCC's definition: General RF Protocol: ReFLEX 2.7 Tx Frequency: 896902 MHz Rx Frequency: 929932, 935942 MHz ReFLEX data rates: 800 9600 bps Serial protocols: Space Data serial Yes, that is bits per second. | |
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AsiaboundEx-Pat Premium Member join:2002-12-21 Mabinay |
Quote: "What's more, it's safe."*wham!* | |
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hdmanFlt Rider Premium Member join:2003-11-25 Appleton, WI |
hdman
Premium Member
2008-Feb-20 2:31 pm
SCADA now, perhaps Broadband later....Currently, the main use for this technology is SCADA systems for remote monitoring of processes or systems. However, with big bucks from Google, I don't see why they couldn't expand the capability to include actual wireless broadband....
I see it as another chance to get connectivity to the rural areas...so I think it's pretty cool!
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Won who kn0ws
Anon
2008-Feb-20 2:53 pm
Get out your . . .Hayes 300 baud modem for high bandwidth than SpaceData can provide.....6 lb max cargo for these balloons....what kind of pipe can you provide with that if it includes battery/antenna/housing.
SpaceData currently is small potatoes/miniscule bandwidth...new batch of sticky red bud must be going around in the Google Boardroom | |
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fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Balloons in the sky??..... for what purpose...? Based on the technology it looks to be offering, I'm thinking this project is actually pretty good... for supplying the US Military has target practice before shooting down the failing spy satellite? | |
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What about the birds?We cut down their nesting areas and now we try to take over their flight paths | |
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Better ideaI heard a better idea several years ago about a company that was looking into making an agreement with the National Weather Service and attaching similar equipment to the weather balloons. Since the logistics of all the balloon launching is already done (and because the balloons will be launched anyway for weather tracking) it is a much less risky enterprise.
I don't know why nothing ever came of it, although it doesn't surprise me. The government never has been too keen on efficiency... | |
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silverfox09
Anon
2008-Feb-20 5:18 pm
how about...attach a small hydrogen generator to the ballons and make them last a LONG time. Have ballons floating all over the stratosphere. | |
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silverfox09
Anon
2008-Feb-20 5:37 pm
old news | |
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Blazing Star
Anon
2008-Mar-3 1:18 pm
Space DataIf all you small minded people would just stop and look at what is going on in the world you would see the need for Space Data Communications. Read about them in the website. You may need them someday when you state has a catastrophy and there is no means of calling your loved ones because your cell tower was knocked down. My advise to you: Read, learn adn understand before opening your mouth and being so negative. | |
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Blazing Star |
Blazing Star
Anon
2008-Mar-3 1:23 pm
If all you small minded people would just stop and look at what is going on in the world you would see the need for Space Data Communications. Read about them in the website. You may need them someday when you state has a catastrophy and there is no means of calling your loved ones because your cell tower was knocked down. My advise to you: Read, learn and understand before opening your mouth and being so negative. | |
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Well I am not sure if this will take off for broadband here in the US, but a friend of mine deployed in Afghanistan said that the Special Forces guys use something else made by this company for communications. It lets them use their normal radios that go 10-15 miles in flat areas with no mountains, and lets them talk hundreds of miles with no special equipment. One of the reasons they are using it is because it works good in mountains valleys where satellites get blocked. So the concept really does work, I just think there would be a problem with the transmission power from the device on the ground to it in the air. It would be sweet if they really did get this to work though. Free Google wifi everywhere!!!! | |
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