 
HEDP
join:2008-04-27
Miami, FL
| ! Privacy is non-existent in the internet, you leave your trace everywhere you go. Also if an ISP does not want to say what's going on, then I will tell them where my cash is going.
When will someone say "I had enough of this shit" and just cancel. Sometimes you need to take a step backward to take two step's forward and this is one of those problems where you need to do just that.
Until that does not happen, I seriously don't want to see another net neutrality article posted, ever. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
 ·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
June 15th, @02:26PM
| Re: ! said by HEDP  :Privacy is non-existent in the internet, you leave your trace everywhere you go.
That's a variation of the old fallacy that if you can't have an extreme, absolute version of something then you have to abandon it completely.
In fact, privacy is a matter of degree. In the absence of abuses by ISPs and other powerful businesses, a person can attain a reasonable degree of privacy online by making the right choices (this includes avoiding any data-mining software).
The problem comes in when ISPs or others interfere with or spy on communications of others and the others can't easily opt out. This has to be addressed by regulation.
said by HEDP : Also if an ISP does not want to say what's going on, then I will tell them where my cash is going. When will someone say "I had enough of this shit" and just cancel.
You are very fortunate if you have more than one broadband provider to choose from, and one of them offers terms more to your liking than the other(s). Congratulations! Or maybe you mean that you're willing to go back to dialup or do without internet - it's admirable that a person will stand up for principle like that, but foolish to think it will make any difference in the terms offered by corporations.
For most of us there is no way to get broadband without onerous "contract of adhesion" terms. That's why legislation is needed to assure network neutrality and complete and truthful disclosures from ISPs and other businesses.
said by HEDP :Until that does not happen, I seriously don't want to see another net neutrality article posted, ever.
Wow! I'm not interested in articles about dogs or cooking, but I would never suggest that they should not be posted for others who are interested in those things. | |
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HEDP
join:2008-04-27
Miami, FL
| Re: ! Privacy is not a matter of degree, it's whether you have it or you do not. To say that I only have a microphone installed in my bedroom compared to a camera, does that mean I have privacy?
Data-mining software exists at the server level towards the client you connect to, it's standard operating procedure and protocol for a system to receive and obtain the destination of known traffic.
You can't opt-out of this, and websites that you visit even with a clean pipe still obtain traffic information, such as your friends Google to see what you buy, search, sell and more online.
Amazon ring a bell? Or how about those "we recommend the following:" on websites, this is just basic tracking of where a IP travels. The only difference here is that now the ISP is doing it at the backbone level. To believe their is privacy on the net is to simply not be connected to the internet at all.
"You are very fortunate if you have more than one broadband provider to choose from, and one of them offers terms more to your liking than the other(s). Congratulations! Or maybe you mean that you're willing to go back to dialup or do without internet - it's admirable that a person will stand up for principle like that, but foolish to think it will make any difference in the terms offered by corporations."
It's foolish to believe that simply going on with the same program expect this wonderful congress to do anything within your favor, then you are deeply mistaken. a for profit company without money, is a business going bankrupt. It's actually a pity to see that people would rather fight a battle that they are paying to lose.
A corporation without any profits will quickly bend over to consumer demands. It's simple, if you don't eat, you die. Also legislation won't do you any good, because that legislation is pretty much already in place, it's called a TOS, which nobody reads, but since you want it complete and provide truthful disclosures, there are available, all 20+ pages of that SOB.
What you want is not network neutrality and complete and truthful disclosures, you want a company that will charge you a ridiculous small amount for a massive pipe to the net that won't be tampered with.
It's called money, do you have it?
I would like to also see articles about network expansion, new businesses, new technologies, network improvements, capacity and backhaul technologies and issues, talks with company CEOs and starts up and reading about what they offer, how they will offer it and why they are doing XYZ.
Of course if a company said "well we are putting caps" everyone quickly throws their fist in the air, and not asking the simple question.
Why? Then maybe we can understand and listen from a companies perspective on what it takes to operate a network, what can be done to prevent issues, and maybe just maybe, a company will not just throw you away as some ranting lunatic, and instead would actually listen to what customers have to say, because I am sure all businesses at first have said "we want to make the customer happy". Maybe if there where more mom and pop ISPs the mammoth of businesses we have now wouldn't have that much control of the market. | |
| | | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: ! What are you babbling about? Privacy most certainly has many degrees. If I'm talking on my phone in my car, you may know that, but you sure don't know WHO I'm talking to. That's because the CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES it. Ever heard of the 4th amendment? You know, search and seizure. The problem is that our RIGHTS are not currently extended to the megacorps. Sure, the ISP has the right to know that I'm using the internet, but they have no RIGHT to know what I'm using it for. They are abusing their monopoly powers to take something in the interest of making more money, and that's just wrong.
Network neutrality ensures that that the megacorps do NOT turn their monopoly position into one which limits our rights. That's why it's so important. We are paying for INTERNET ACCESS, NOT 'access to Disney and Fox and ABC websites'. That's where the internet will be heading (it already has in some places).
As far as the camera and the microphone, that's a perfect example of degrees of privacy. If I don't make any noise, then they don't know what I'm doing. If they had the camera too, then I wouldn't have any privacy at all.
It's not a black and white issue. It's not an issue of profit. It's an issue of the rights of human dignity, which the megacorps have proven time and time again they don't care about.
Hell, if the government nationalized broadband, sure it would be slower, and sure it wouldn't be as good, but at least we'd have our protected rights to go along with it. Giving up rights for a lower prices isn't a very good tradeoff.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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HEDP
join:2008-04-27
Miami, FL
| Re: ! Sorry to go completely off topic, but what are you doing in Iraq?
Back on topic:
Well if you believe that privacy has degrees, by my thinking it does not because the moment one door is open, it leaves access to all other doors. But if you are referring to simply ISPs selling your data that's another subject entirely that goes beyond privacy.
As for net neutrality, hey the way I see it, it's their network their resources and all I am doing is paying for is access, if they decide that's what they want to do then they will lose me as a customer. It does not matter what a company says, if they are going to bleed thousands or millions of customers in less than a week over a decision such as selling per website, they won't do it, it's like committing suicide. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| Remember China I would npt run a Google application on my system ever. Their collusion with helping China thwart free speech and track down dissidents evidence enough that Google will sell you down the river to keep their profits up.
I can see it now, Google Throttle Checker and Homeland Security Back Door. | |
| | 
Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Neshanic Station, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Re: Remember China said by AnonProxy :I would npt run a Google application on my system ever. Their collusion with helping China thwart free speech and track down dissidents evidence enough that Google will sell you down the river to keep their profits up. I can see it now, Google Throttle Checker and Homeland Security Back Door. What would you have them do? Ignore China and their billion possible users?
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
| Free speech? What the hell? China has it's own legal system and their own set of laws. Anyone doing business in China needs to respect that. Google had no choice since China is a major player and next super power. They could either obey the law or piss them off and get booted.
Besides if Americans really cared about it you would not see "MADE IN CHINA" sticker on 99% of merchandise sold in the US. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
edit:
June 15th, @01:41PM
| There is a difference between doing business in China and assisting China in tracking down people so they can be put in jail, for nothing more than using a search engine. Google had the option to say "Sorry we don't keep that information."
They also have the option to not modify their search engines to accommodate propaganda, but they choose not to exercise that option when profits are on the line.
But the both of you miss the significance of the actual issue; if Google will drop a dime on people using their SEARCH ENGINE, do you think they will bat an eye when asked to turn over your entire browsing history to Homeland Security? You can bet they won't.
As well both of you seem to miss the irony of Google purporting to support free and unfettered access to the Internet and information, showing how your "ISP might be playing tricks on you." While doing the same in the name of the same desire, more profits.
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kiss
@rr.com
| Ok heres a simple way to use this problem. Its like 2008 and almost everyone on here has more than one pc. Why not take one PC and install google. Run this pc for only that and never get on it except to look at the information.
Also if your that paranoid, you can vlan that pc so every other device in your house cannot see it. | |
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Rastlin
@comcast.net
thumbs down from:
TK Junk Mail
| Google Yahoo did far worse in China, maybe you would like to use MS for all your search needs, because that company has never done anything questionable I am sure. Google is a business and honestly they have IMHO a far cleaner track record than their competitors. Just remember that like every other company their goal is to make profits, and be glad that at least one major company is willing to stick up for net neutrality. | |
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N O Y B
St. John 3.16
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR | Who Will Monitor Google Monitoring Will Yahoo, Microsoft, or Comcast provide a utility to monitor the Google monitoring? And if so who will monitor their monitoring...? | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| Re: Who Will Monitor Google Monitoring said by N O Y B :Will Yahoo, Microsoft, or Comcast provide a utility to monitor the Google monitoring? And if so who will monitor their monitoring...? Google is probably the least evil of the above referenced. That said, I'd use their sw to monitor ISP throttling before I'd even consider anything of the sort from MS or the others. | |
| | lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA
| Anyone with any significant amount of intelligence and willingness will simply learn enough to sniff the outbound traffic on their box for a week or something if they're that concerned.
Even if I don't like what Google does in China, for the most part, I'm totally fine with what they do here, and that's all that is part of the issue (unless, of course, you live in China, but then you probably wouldn't be reading this). | |
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Unit649
I B U, Who U B?
Premium
join:2000-01-22
Stockton, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Who Will Monitor Google Monitoring For a week? How about always? The next update thats automatically installed could be the one that does what you looked for when you first installed it, you never assume its going to be the same as it was in the first iteration.
If you are honestly that paranoid about it, the only solution is to always monitor everything always. And those who are, will, and already do.
And honestly, those who download so heavily or do things that would trigger such throttling probably can already tell and don't need such a tool anyway. Except to confirm what they already know.
The rest of us see this as a non issue. I download on occasion but the stuff I get isn't important enough that if it gets throttled that I will care that much, or probably really even notice.. Those that do know its happening and don't need a tool to tell them. | |
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tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA | Unlike AT&T, it's not likely going to be the NSA. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  Why do we need this?
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Google To Help You Monitor ISP Throttling
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