 | | They could bring to Iowa All what they have to do there is submit application with state government. Local franchise boards are not involved.  | |
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 | | | Re: They could bring to Iowa The state would still make them comply with regulations on where those lines should be installed. This is the longest part of the process besides build out. What happened is Google got in over their head and thought that they could just go without any regulations or such. Now they're blocked due to health and safety of installing in areas they should NOT unless done by an actual employee that is certified to do so. And Google does NOT want to pay them that fee.
Another half ass project that will always be in BETA by Google. | |
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| | | | Re: They could bring to Iowa Kansas City Missouri has no such issues as of yet. KCPL has already agreed to Google's terms on fiber placement and the project is on schedule.
The Kansas side is all fouled up.
Lucky for me I'm on the Missouri side. | |
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| | | I 100% agree, that they should bring it to Iowa, I'm stuck on 7mbps Qwest/Centurylink DSL we need upgrades people we can't stay at this speed forever! I want 40/20 or 100/60 | |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | They Think That Is Bad It is a good thing they did not try and do a fiber hookup in New York State. Those Kansas City folks are amateurs when it comes to red tape and regulations. Google would have given up long ago if they tried New York.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | | Re: They Think That Is Bad as they will in KS before its over with. | |
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 mobOn the next level..Premium
join:2000-10-07 | Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha Whoever dreamed that one up must have hit one of the "medical" shops in California before hitting the keyboard.
Surewest is expanding their FTTH footprint in select areas, however none of those areas are in Kansas City Missouri or Kansas. | |
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| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha I hear they're bringing dispensaries to DC. We have a lot of glaucoma here.
Google should pay up, this is a learning process. They need to realize they will face this in a lot of cities. If Verizon has to deal with it, so does Google. | |
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| | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha do you really think Google is going to expand this "service" This will be deployed (if even done) only in this metro area and then Google will claim its not a money maker for them and drop it and let the line rot if they can't find anyone to take it over from them.
Google isn't in this project to give the customers an option (which the human brain can NOT make a decision with more than 3 options to choose from). This whole Google thing was only to grab more $$$ from selling click information from the "customers of this service" and nothing more. Otherwise this would be built out in more cities while this is being hashed out in KC. | |
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| | | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha Stop with the 3 part decision FUD. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha I saw that FUD too. Glad you nailed him on it. | |
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| | | | | You seem familiar... Do you have or work for Buckeye cable? LOL | |
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| | | | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha I think he sells vegan dog food. | |
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| | | Reviews:
 ·LUS Fiber
 ·Brown Dog Networks
| said by 25139889:do you really think Google is going to expand this "service" This will be deployed (if even done) only in this metro area and then Google will claim its not a money maker for them and drop it and let the line rot if they can't find anyone to take it over from them.
Google isn't in this project to give the customers an option (which the human brain can NOT make a decision with more than 3 options to choose from). This whole Google thing was only to grab more $$$ from selling click information from the "customers of this service" and nothing more. Otherwise this would be built out in more cities while this is being hashed out in KC.
You are partially incorrect. Google has so much money they could literally flush half a billion dollars down the toilet weekly and still be ok.
Their sites are set on cloud computing ..which requires minimum 100mbit symmetrical super low latency to work properly. I doubt they would even care if the network itself would turn a profit. The FTTH project is simply another step to get people on Googles core services.
THis is what makes ISP's nervous ...because Google isn't an ISP first...they just require ISP-like networks to provide the Google service they want to serve.
The government entities in KC, MO are fools ... KC, KS seems to have their ducks in a row. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha said by StLCardsFan:The government entities in KC, MO are fools ... KC, KS seems to have their ducks in a row.
You have it backwards. Google isn't having issues in KCMO, it's in KC, KS. Two different govt and utility entities entirely.
And BTW, Surewest already has FTTH presence in KCMO as well as other suburban KC areas (though not KCK). | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha well it would make sense then to buy surewest up. Im sure they are merely fodder in the greater scheme of things. | |
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|  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| said by mob: Surewest is expanding their FTTH footprint in select areas, however none of those areas are in Kansas City Missouri or Kansas.
Incorrect.
Surewest bought a FTTH provider in KC 3-4 years ago that provide 100/100 service to part of the city.
So buying that part (or ALL) of surewest would give you their pole ROW, plus some local expertise on the build out history.
The reverse sceniro is to pay surewest to build out and operate the google-FI net during the experiment life, just as they have Sonic running the Stanford test.
google is learning from this, and the first lesson is it isn't as simple or quick as putting up Xmas lights in Mt view.
how many more years before this "flash build" is done? | |
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| | | | Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha As soon as Google announced KC area, I was expecting that eventually Surewest would take over managing the day to day operations and support for Google, but I didn't anticipate Google buying Surewest. I suppose it's a realistic possibility to expedite the almost obvious outcome of Surewest being involved in some way. | |
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| | | tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Lol, Surewest bought by Google...ha ha ha ha ha I don't know that the really want to buy them. After all google does intend to walk away from this experiment at some point, contracting/providing surewest (or any other scalable experineced FTTH builder operator) with capital/grants to get it done.
and leave an ongoing sustanable network when they leave. (to avoid the bad PR "Google gives up !") | |
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| | mobOn the next level..Premium
join:2000-10-07 Reviews:
 ·SureWest Internet
| said by tshirt:said by mob: Surewest is expanding their FTTH footprint in select areas, however none of those areas are in Kansas City Missouri or Kansas.
Incorrect. Surewest bought a FTTH provider in KC 3-4 years ago that provide 100/100 service to part of the city. So buying that part (or ALL) of surewest would give you their pole ROW, plus some local expertise on the build out history. The reverse sceniro is to pay surewest to build out and operate the google-FI net during the experiment life, just as they have Sonic running the Stanford test. google is learning from this, and the first lesson is it isn't as simple or quick as putting up Xmas lights in Mt view. how many more years before this "flash build" is done? Actually, Surewest bought out EverestKC, a cable company that has some FTTH services. The company provides far more traditional cable connections than it does FTTH connections, for now. If you want to call them up and find out how limited their FTTH deployment is, feel free their number is 913-825-3000
Furthermore, Surewest DOES NOT SERVICE KANSAS CITY KANSAS. Also, the company has stated several times in local news articles that the company is not going to offer FTTH services on the small areas they serve on the Missouri side.
»www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n···ity.html
--
Ich habe kein Mitleid - Me
You're a daisy if you do. - Doc Holliday
And as always, have nice day. | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Buying out the last mile? If Google acquires Surewest for its rights and personnel to get the job done, converting to fiber, what's wrong with that?
Part of being a successful enterprise is knowing when to fold, or buy someone else who does what you want to do, better. Google does this often.
If the "the model" for fiber deployment is a wad of cash buying out the local cable or telco franchise for the pole space, service fleet and expertise, what's wrong with that? | |
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| openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by elray:If Google acquires Surewest for its rights and personnel to get the job done, converting to fiber, what's wrong with that? Because Google implied early on that a FTTH deployment was relatively easy and they want to poke fingers in the eyes of the incumbents. | |
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| | | | Re: Buying out the last mile? It's relatively easy if you have the foundation for the infrastructure already. It's asking too much of the Street View guys to climb poles. | |
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| | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? I understand, but that wasn't really how Google presented this science project. | |
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| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by openbox9:I understand, but that wasn't really how Google presented this science project.
Are you saying they learned nothing from GoogleTV?
They need to save face.
I'm sure Surewest would welcome a partnership and the PR that accompanies it. Historically they're one of the good guys, but they're still a telco. | |
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| | | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by elray:Are you saying they learned nothing from GoogleTV? Huh?
said by elray:They need to save face. Save face from what? The purpose of this test lab is to demonstrate that deploying large capacity networks to targeted segments of population is feasible and capable of supporting the next generation of data consuming applications.
said by elray:I'm sure Surewest would welcome a partnership and the PR that accompanies it. Historically they're one of the good guys, but they're still a telco. My point is that Google shouldn't want to partner with an incumbent. | |
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| | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by elray:Are you saying they learned nothing from GoogleTV? GoogleTV failed because Google assumed the content was theirs to take, because they "do no evil" - their poo yields no odor. They failed to acknowledge that content owners, studios, networks and other distributors and stakeholders have rights, and they failed to negotiate with them in good faith before deploying the product. Looks like KC has much of the same smell.
said by elray:They need to save face. said by openbox9: Save face from what? The purpose of this test lab is to demonstrate that deploying large capacity networks to targeted segments of population is feasible and capable of supporting the next generation of data consuming applications.
Yes, that was the stated purpose. And they're failing, badly.
They assumed, because they're The Google, that they would be treated differently than any other potential overbuilder.
said by elray:I'm sure Surewest would welcome a partnership and the PR that accompanies it. Historically they're one of the good guys, but they're still a telco. said by openbox9: My point is that Google shouldn't want to partner with an incumbent.
I disagree.
Google *should* partner with local entities.
They want the megapipe in place; they don't want to operate it as ISP, or field customer service.
Surewest isn't your traditional, typical incumbent. | |
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| | | | | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by elray:I disagree.
Google *should* partner with local entities.
They want the megapipe in place; they don't want to operate it as ISP, or field customer service.
Surewest isn't your traditional, typical incumbent. I think we agree that Google underestimated certain aspects of this project. You are correct that Google doesn't want to be an ISP. However, I believe Google wants to prove that it's relatively easy and affordable to deploy this infrastructure. Admitting roadblocks exist and that assistance from an existing infrastructure owner (typical incumbent or not) is needed is a failure IMO. If Google only wanted to push gigabit to the home, it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to enter into partnerships from the very beginning. | |
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| | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by openbox9:I think we agree that Google underestimated certain aspects of this project. You are correct that Google doesn't want to be an ISP. However, I believe Google wants to prove that it's relatively easy and affordable to deploy this infrastructure. Admitting roadblocks exist and that assistance from an existing infrastructure owner (typical incumbent or not) is needed is a failure IMO. If Google only wanted to push gigabit to the home, it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to enter into partnerships from the very beginning.
I don't think Google underestimated anything.
The stated goals of Google's Community Fiber are in no way compromised by partnering with an incumbent. "Better" internet access, Ultra high speeds with line sharing. How does bedding down with Surewest harm anything?
Deploying FTTH infrastructure is NOT easy or affordable.
Google doesn't bring anything to the table that will make it so.
In fact, they probably raise the cost by their presence. | |
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| | | | | | | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? This experiment is about Google making a point and attempting to demonstrate that incumbents are dragging their feet with infrastructure upgrades. | |
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| | | | | | | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Buying out the last mile? said by openbox9:This experiment is about Google making a point and attempting to demonstrate that incumbents are dragging their feet with infrastructure upgrades.
No, that's not what they said. Do you really think the public needs or wants Google to point out what incumbents might be guilty of?
They said they would, and I quote, "deliver":
From the Google Community Fiber announcement:
We'll deliver Internet speeds more than 100 times faster than what most Americans have access to today with 1 gigabit per second, fiber-to-the-home connections.
They aren't.
Google often just buys the better mousetrap and retires their own. Surewest already does 50Mbps FTTH, albeit in a limited footprint. Why not just invest, upgrade, and get the job done, rather than spend the next year pointing fingers? | |
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| | | | | | | | | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Buying out the last mile? I read between the lines  | |
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| |  alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA | said by openbox9:said by elray:If Google acquires Surewest for its rights and personnel to get the job done, converting to fiber, what's wrong with that? Because Google implied early on that a FTTH deployment was relatively easy and they want to poke fingers in the eyes of the incumbents. The Google People forget the Silicon Valley is unique, their Campus is all underground with large conduit connecting all their buildings. So running Fiber is no sweat. Now you go to Kansas, and you have to deal with Poles and the right to use this obsolete mode of distribution....What a Let Down! | |
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| | Due Diligence!! Sounds like Google may not have done enough due diligence when researching how to be ISP.
Maybe they hadn't thought to employ some experienced managers from ISPs, for the RFPs and now the implementation phase. | |
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| | | Re: Due Diligence!! It looks like they should have employed some experienced out side plant managers from utilities who know how to place aerial plant and what is required to place it. | |
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openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | And run the risk said by Karl Bode:If Kansas City wants to be too difficult in negotiations, there's a long list of cities clamoring for faster connectivity. Great way to start the red lining accusations...or are those reserved for Verizon? | |
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| | | Re: And run the risk BBR/Karl won't accuse Google of redlining. they support BBR. | |
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| | Google Will In the face of all the RED tape google will:
Learn that wired to too hard to deal with and go wireless...
In which case it will buy Sprint/Clearwire and run LTE.
When you think about it/it could happen ANDROID does | |
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| openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | Re: Google Will said by MalibuMaxx:In which case it will buy Sprint/Clearwire and run LTE. Hah. I wouldn't bank on that | |
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| | | | Re: Google Will I wouldn't either... | |
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| | Cool I think it would be pretty cool is google were to buy surewest. Surewest has practically wired CA's Capitol city of Sacramento with fiber. Its embarrassing that the state Capitol of CA gets all this fiber while a 2 hr drive to silicon valley there's no fiber in sight. Hopefully google can learn how it's done from an experienced over builder like surewest. | |
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| | Run away We as as an ISP were run out of Rio Rancho NM for political reasons too.
They just want subscribers to sign up for the local Cable TV company they support.
It will only get worse! | |
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| | poor google I am sure the city is not holding out for some sort of "kick back" and I am sure if its a phone co that controls the pole space google needs surely they would not want to thwart google. lol Google needs to understand they are like the new Microsoft. But the haters are not the users its all the envious cos that want to thwart them
As for local govt "peeps" and minor league city councils, I always find them to be highly knowledgeable, non political, efficient, expedient and cooperative. LOL
Poor google. Time to fire the idiots at google who said this would be a cakewalk. You get an F on homework
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Lakewood Accountability Action Group | »www.LAAG.us | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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|  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·CenturyLink
| Re: poor google I wonder if the powers at Google are wondering if this is going to be San Fransico all over again. If you recall they wanted to put in a city wide free WiFi system. But the City council acted like the money to build it was coming out of their pockets and demanded all sort of social engineering stuff be added. What I called at the time Blackberry's for Bums was one of them. Free Blackberry's for the homeless so the social service people could keep in touch. Of course anyone with half a brain cell could see these bums would sell off these blackberry phones for booze, and dope money. finally after a year of such hassels Google pulled the plug.
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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption | |
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| | | | Re: poor google "Blackberry's for Bums" I like that | |
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Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| get a fair deal or WALK! Google is spending MILLIONS deploying fiber.. if they can't get a FAIR deal for connecting to poles and rights of way.. they should take the WHOLE PROJECT and walk it over to a geography which DOES NOT have this kind if astroturf problem with incumbent utilities. It should NOT cost a cent more than other utilities pay for connection on new lines. | |
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| Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: get a fair deal or WALK! I am not sure that you fully understand pole plant and the various clearances involved. As has been discussed, there is a minimum clearance of 40 inches between power attachments to the pole and the next lower attachment. There is also a minimum clearance between the bottom cable and the driveway, street, etc. which must be maintained to avoid cable being torn down.
If there is no more space on the pole, then the pole must be changed out for one that is taller and that is several thousand dollars to do that. Then there is the question of recurring attachment fees.
There is more involved (safety wise) than being mean to poor little Google. In all the articles I saw no reference to costs more than other utilities.
In short, it appears that Google didn't check out everything that they should have. | |
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| | Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: get a fair deal or WALK! If Kansas City utilities have gobbed up telephone poles with wires, that's news to me.. on the odd few miles of higher costs because that's the case a deal could be worked out without hitting a brick wall, IMO-- perhaps it's more cost effective to run cabling underground or through backyards, etc. There are all kinds of possiblities.. but I agree the job of Google to figure out if the entire project was feasable costwise was an important issue in choosing the location in the first place. What I was alluding to is that if INCUBMENT utilties go out of their way to make this project cost more than it should, Google should WALK the project to another location lock-stock-and-barrel! | |
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| | | | | Re: get a fair deal or WALK! Anybody that wants to bury thru my back yard, if they aren't mentioned on existing easement will pay a very high price, something like $100 per foot. I have more stuff than I want in my back yard. | |
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| | This is why we fail !!! These kind of retro-backwardness state of mind and values are the one responsible for the fact that North America is rapidly becoming like a third world country in terms of communication sophistication. Many countries all around the world have already access to FTTH internet connection for prices you would laugh about! Those who don't like London, have FTTN at last, and you can subscribe to ADSL for as low as 5 pounds a month!!!! Tell that to your North American (US-Canada) ISPs...
So when Google tries to do it, I don't give a fuck if they don't ask permission, If the succeed by all means. Or like the other guy who complained about GoogleTV... Who don't understand the mean of the "do no evil"... ""Do no evil to the customer", fuck the other corporation that are all about money with no innovation!!!! I don't care if someone do Evil, as long as the Innovate and benefit humankind!!!! And here be Evil you fucking mean "Don't be evil with the corporate greedy bastards and mess with their money monopolies"!!! | |
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