 Gami00
join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON | its funny and sad at the same time. i'm glad they're doing it to apple.
but it is sad that it has now come to this in this silly patent wars.
the US patent system needs to be flushed and cleaned so that this doesn't happen anymore. | |
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 | | | Re: its funny and sad at the same time. said by Gami00:the US patent system needs to be flushed and cleaned so that this doesn't happen anymore. If PTO offices all over the world bothered doing obviousness and prior-art test instead of blindly granting patents and letting courts sort it out afterward, things wouldn't be that ugly.
Lowering the proof threshold for prior-art, obviousness, natural process and other patent invalidation motives would help clear a lot of this BS. | |
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| |  vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: its funny and sad at the same time. PTO employees are underfunded and aren't exactly the top minds (the top minds are working in the private sector making much more than a government job would pay). It's like financial regulation, the regulator is always going to be overmatched by the industry they're trying to regulate. | |
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| | | | | Re: its funny and sad at the same time. said by vpoko:PTO employees are underfunded and aren't exactly the top minds
PTO clerks only need to be smart enough to determine categories of subject matter specialists/experts who should know enough to issue a recommendation.
What is missing is a legal authorization and requirement to do so when in doubt. | |
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| |  GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
 ·Dish Network
| It's an almost impossible job to catch all 102 and 103 art. There's just too much material in the world.
That being said, as part of the new patent laws going into effect on March 16, 2013, the US patent office will be looking at prior art that includes public use, sales, publications, and other disclosures available to the public anywhere in the world as of the filing date. This should bring in quite a bit of extra material that may potentially bar patentability.
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I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, that Harry Reid takes it up the kiester from farm animals. | |
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| | |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: its funny and sad at the same time. Not like that will actually solve anything -- anyone who doesn't like the patent office's decision will just head to court anyhow, and the taxpayers will foot the legal bills. | |
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| | | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| Re: its funny and sad at the same time. Well, you can refile the patent applications and you can appeal "final" decisions to the patent board. But you can't head to court to try to get something allowed as a patent if it wasn't granted by the PTO. All those costs are borne by the applicants.
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I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, that Harry Reid takes it up the kiester from farm animals. | |
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|  elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand
 ·Cybersurf Intern..
| said by Gami00:i'm glad they're doing it to apple.
but it is sad that it has now come to this in this silly patent wars.
the US patent system needs to be flushed and cleaned so that this doesn't happen anymore.
I couldn't agree more. Every patent becomes invalid, no more patents on swipes, clicks, shapes, colours and the lot.
You should be able to patent real items not processes.
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake....... | |
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| | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| Re: its funny and sad at the same time. said by elwoodblues:said by Gami00:i'm glad they're doing it to apple.
but it is sad that it has now come to this in this silly patent wars.
the US patent system needs to be flushed and cleaned so that this doesn't happen anymore.
I couldn't agree more. Every patent becomes invalid, no more patents on swipes, clicks, shapes, colours and the lot. You should be able to patent real items not processes. Sometimes a process is innovative and should be patentable. What's the difference in terms of innovation between an innovative process and an innovative product? I can possibly see why there may be a public policy reason against software patents, but other process patents are valuable.
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I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, that Harry Reid takes it up the kiester from farm animals. | |
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| | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: its funny and sad at the same time. Agreed, but obviousness, natural extensions of existing technology and prior art should render many, MANY of these applications as rejected.
Alas, it has not, and this is the result.
Using patents to fight competition and innovation is not what they are about.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | What goes around comes around Apple should expect things happen to it as it does such things on to others. | |
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Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | Are any of you guys surprised about this? I'm not surprised.
The consequences of this could mean that the next paradigm in personal computers comes from international companies as a result of all this patent madness.
The whole idea that apple "invented" the smartphone is an insult to intelligence. Anyone that knows anything about miniaturization saw this possibility long ago.
The iPhone wasn't "invented" in the year 2000 for a reason:
It wasn't possible back then. Just like it's not possible for them to "invent" a computer that fits in your blood cells at the moment.
But i can't wait for them to claim they were the ones that thought of it first once it becomes technically feasible. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by Kamus:The consequences of this could mean that the next paradigm in personal computers comes from international companies as a result of all this patent madness. How do you figure? All the phones are already made in other countries, even for domestic companies. A foreign company needing to import a phone likely would have just as hard of a time if not harder time getting a phone distributed in the US then a domestic company.
The whole idea that apple "invented" the smartphone is an insult to intelligence. Anyone that knows anything about miniaturization saw this possibility long ago. | |
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| |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by cdru:Apple never said they invented the smartphone. Their guff with Samsung is over design patents, how it looks as a whole. Ya.. Because Samsung's phones look EXACTLY like an iPhone. | |
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| | |  aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by Simba7:said by cdru:Apple never said they invented the smartphone. Their guff with Samsung is over design patents, how it looks as a whole. Ya.. Because Samsung's phones look EXACTLY like an iPhone. Apple has a 4.8 inch screen? The iphone looks like a toy compared to many of the other phones out there. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by aaronwt:Apple has a 4.8 inch screen? The iphone looks like a toy compared to many of the other phones out there.
Really? I know someone with a 4.8 screen phone and the thing looks freaking huge. Not something I'd want to carry around. Heck, when I had my Treo 650 it was considered a brick compared to other phones of the time.
I'd settle for a 4 inch screen but in reality the high resolution of the iPhone has made it less painful going back to a smaller screen than I thought it would have been. | |
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| | | | | Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by itguy05:Really? I know someone with a 4.8 screen phone and the thing looks freaking huge.
Which is why the lawsuits don't make sense. Nobody would confuse a Galaxy S with an Iphone. Apple does not have a patent on the color black. Actually I think Samsung did away with black for the S3 anyway... | |
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| | | | | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? Black S3 phones are on their way. I think they hit Asia first. | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | NOT. | |
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| | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? Ya.. Couldn't you sense the sarcasm?
Hell, my Captivate (Galaxy S) looks nothing like an iPhone. I don't see how they think it does.
Better watch it, KrK  . Apple might go back in time and sue that tablet company to protect their future "inventions".
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Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
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| | Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | said by cdru:How do you figure? All the phones are already made in other countries, even for domestic companies. A foreign company needing to import a phone likely would have just as hard of a time if not harder time getting a phone distributed in the US then a domestic company.
I realize they are made in other countries, and yes i also know it's easier to ban imports than domestics.
Now, Lets fast forward just 7 more years, and technology allows for new products that aren't possible today. You have the means to bring this product to reality. Where do you go?
My guess is you wouldn't even try to test the legal system of the U.S. Instead, you could just target the rest of the world for your market. China should be just as big as a market as the US by then, if not bigger. and well, then there's the rest of the world.
If you start to really think about what is really going on here. It's companies fighting for the "ownership" of consumers.
We've already seen what the government is willing to do for the likes of the MPAA, and we're about to find out what it's willing to do for Apple.
And sure, i understand that their "guff" with Samsung is about the look and feel of the competition. Well, at least that's the reason they give. When in fact we all know the real reason is that they have a formidable competitor that is beating them everywhere else in the world.
I guess the only thing we can do is /popcorn. and watch this charade go on. | |
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| | | | said by cdru:Apple never said they invented the smartphone. Their guff with Samsung is over design patents, how it looks as a whole.
Yeah, like "an essentially rectangular device with evenly-rounded corners." C'mon. My Palm Centro meets that test, and it's certainly no iPhone. I doubt even Apple has so little shame as to accuse Palm of having copied them, being as the Centro and iPhone were introduced at roughly the same time.
Many of Apple's patents are nonsense. Unfortunately, for Apple, my guess is most of Motorola's are not.
Jim | |
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| | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? Unfortunately, I think Mot has a ton-load of worthless patents. That being said, maybe they've changed over the last 10 years since I was there.
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I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, that Harry Reid takes it up the kiester from farm animals. | |
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| | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? on the other hand even if they are worthless, looking at the patent litigation system today. Anything and Everything is ammunition for the patent lawsuit cannons.
Considering apple can sue over rounded edges, slide to unlock, and bouncing the screen back if you scroll passed the end.
it is pretty clear pretty soon there will be a credit card slot on our toilets because somebody out there will have patented taking a shit.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by cdru:Apple never said they invented the smartphone. Their guff with Samsung is over design patents, how it looks as a whole. Right... using patents that shouldn't have been granted in the first place..... but even having been so, should CLEARLY be invalidated now.
You know, like Apple's patent for the concept of rectangular tablet with rounded edges..... such an innovative idea that NOBODY every thought up before that....
(Ignore this picture from 1994, it would damage Apple's patent case.)
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? said by KrK:Right... using patents that shouldn't have been granted in the first place..... but even having been so, should CLEARLY be invalidated now.
You know, like Apple's patent for the concept of rectangular tablet with rounded edges..... such an innovative idea that NOBODY every thought up before that....
(Ignore this picture from 1994, it would damage Apple's patent case.) Part of what they are arguing over are DESIGN patents. ALL parts of the patented design must be included. It's not simply enough to present similar appearing devices but have some aspects not fit. For instance in your picture it appears that the bezel around the LCD screen is raised on the front and no button centered at the bottom. This alone could be enough to set Apple's design as being different since it has smooth screen with no raised surround, as well as the button.
Just finding a bunch of different examples of tablets that fit some but not all of the individual components isn't enough to get the patents invalidated.
I think both sides are at fault. I don't think individual aspects of Apple's design are unique and weren't seen before. But I think that as a whole it was a unique design. And so I think that should retain the design patent. And I do think that Samsung's tablets and phones took some aspects from Apple's design. But I don't think they infringe specifically on the design patents.
I haven't paid enough attention on the utility patents for Apple or Samsung's counter suit to say anything one way or another...and I think that if they are upheld that we'll see a cross licensing agreement for them. | |
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| | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? Yes, but it's all examples of prior art which then leads to the failure of the "Obviousness" test.
Apple actually has patents based on how their devices look or are shaped.
This is what I mean by "should be invalidated."
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| Re: Are any of you guys surprised about this? Obviousness is strongest when only one or two pieces of prior art are used. Third is sometimes okay. More than that and the argument will usually fail. I had an examiner throw four pieces of prior art at me once. I called him up and we had a discussion. He agreed that four references was probably too many and he withdrew his rejection.
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I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, that Harry Reid takes it up the kiester from farm animals. | |
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| | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by KrK:Apple actually has patents based on how their devices look or are shaped. ALL design patents are for how an object look or are shaped. For example, Coke's bottle shape. That's what sets them apart from utility patents which covers functionality with no real regard for non-functional design.
I'm not saying that their patents are valid or not, but there are thousands upon thousands of design patents that are "obvious" but aren't really. | |
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| | Good Let's ban all iPads, iPhones and Apple computers.
The world will be a better place without them. | |
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| | | Re: Good said by osravens:Let's ban all iPads, iPhones and Apple computers.
The world will be a better place without them.
I've said the same thing about Windows for years. It (and Microsoft) is a plague on the world. | |
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| |  AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by itguy05:said by osravens:Let's ban all iPads, iPhones and Apple computers.
The world will be a better place without them.
I've said the same thing about Windows for years. It (and Microsoft) is a plague on the world. I concur with both.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.-- | |
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| | Clever ploy? I wonder if Google is just trying to do something so crazy as trying to get all Apple products banned to start the ball rolling on patent reform. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | Lawyers are the ones making money No mater who's suing who. The outcome of the lawsuit is lawyers. They are the ones making money. This is what America is all about. FREEDOM TO SUE!!!!!! | |
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 tmh
@comcastbusiness.net | Thermonuclear war Apple wanted one, now they have it. | |
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| | madness Google is letting samsung use its IP attys. lol. The apple suit was just a way to whack at google via the No. 1 android maker. So two (or three) of the most profitable cos of all time »hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/···=DEFAULT are now fighting each other so the consumer can "win"?. I think not. Ok I claim a right to every idea ever thought of. Done. I win. Now pay me.
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Lakewood Accountability Action Group | »www.LAAG.us | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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See 6 replies to this post |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| Patent reform needed The patent system needs to be overhauled so the burden of proof should be on the person/company claiming the invention. The fact that Apple has been around twice as long as Google should stand in Apple's favor.
They need to make it so that the plaintiff should have to pay the defendants legal fees and costs if the defendant prevails.
All of my computers are Apple and I have an iPad along with an iPhone.
The fact the iPhone hit the market before Android should work in Apple's favor. I think Android violates Apple's patents since their devices seem to function similar to an iPhone. Another telltale piece of evidence would be the filing dates on the patents.
With the money Apple has, they will probably hire some high powered Boston law firm to defend them and they will probably countersue for attorney's fees. Our patent system has gone from protecting inventors to opening the floodgates to frivolous litigation. Google's lawsuit is just as frivolous as the McDonald's spilled coffee case.
Apple should claim retaliation from Google after the Safari tracking cookies scandal.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). | |
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| Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: Patent reform needed Yes, because obviously your precious Apple came up with tablets, things like slide to unlock (Which is a mechanism used to open doors btw  ) and other things they never invented | |
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| IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Broadban..
1 edit | Re: About damn time... Having Apple and Android products on the market is a good thing as it is called competition. Competition is a good thing. What Google is trying to do is snuff out a competitor by misusing the legal system. I choose to use Apple products. Others may choose Android phones/windows computers. In my opinion, I think Android infringes on Apple since they have the look and feel of iOS. I think a good settlement would be interoperability of Android and iOS apps (like many software programs work on both Windows and Mac OS computers) and being able to sync Android devices with iTunes as well as iCloud support on Android. I have tried Android but went back to iPhone as Android devices don't play nice with the Macs I own. And if Google tries to take this iPad out of my hands, I'll sue them for triple the full retail price under Massachusetts consumer protection act (warranty of merchanibility since they are depriving me of use of it because of frivolus litigation against Apple and unfair and deceptive acts since they are manipulating the market). Google has been sued multiple times over privacy issues but I use them for a search engine and their maps application. Now if we could get some competition in the broadband sector, that would be a good thing.
The breakup of AT&T/Bell System was the best thing for American Consumers.
Like I said in the post above, they need to rewrite the patent laws. They passed the Hatch Waxman act to limit patents on prescription medication and to expedite generic drug approvals (which is a good thing as one of my medications costs nearly $900 per month, although insurance covers most of the cost but the drug was new to the market as of 2006; but don't ask what I take it for or the name of the medication because that is my personal business) and prescription drugs are one of the main factors our healthcare costs are skyrocketing. One of my Grandma's medications was $11 per dose back in 1994 when it was new, now it is on Walmart's $4/month supply generics list now that the patent expired (although she no longer takes it). Now if we could get some patent reform in the tech sector that would be a good thing. Copyright reform would not be bad either.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). | |
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·Charter
| Re: About damn time... iOS is taken from OSX, which was taken from BSD. Both Linux and OSX come from BSD. Linux is what Android uses.
Linux and BSD are both older then OSX, so it was OSX that took the look and feel.
My god, at least learn something before worshipping Apple. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Apple is the one trying to snuff out competition. They started this crap.
Google is now returning fire.
Hopefully Apple will realize that this "War" will cost them and give up the douchebaggery. They deserve this kind of treatment, and more.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| |  ZaberWhen all are gone, there shall be none
join:2000-06-08
Cleveland, OH | said by IowaCowboy: ...In my opinion, I think Android infringes on Apple since they have the look and feel of iOS. I think a good settlement would be interoperability of Android and iOS apps (like many software programs work on both Windows and Mac OS computers) and being able to sync Android devices with iTunes as well as iCloud support on Android. I have tried Android but went back to iPhone as Android devices don't play nice with the Macs I own.
A couple points here:
1. I am on my second Android phone, and we currently have five and none of them resemble the IPhone
2. Android does not "play nice" with the Apple products because Apple uses a closed source proprietary protocols. Only Apple products "play nice" with other Apple products.
3. Apple has always copied what was out there then tried to force a lock out. There current OS line is taken directly from BSD which is a Unix, they just slapped a different UI on top of it.
This being said what makes Apple products so popular is the same thing I hate about their products: They take away from user choice giving everyone the exact same interface and options. I would also like to know which programs can run on both Linux and Windows unmodified and natively. Other than programs written entirely in an interpreted language like Java I have never heard of such a thing.
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime | |
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| openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | said by trparky:It's about damn time Google goes after Apple on behalf of their Android partners. Google is slowly learning how to play with the big boys, one step at a time. | |
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| | Sorry But.. I had a android for years and it's much better then a iPhone that i used to have ... iPhone's are so boring to limited even with jail break.. it's made for idiots if you can't use a iPhone then you do not deserve no phone at all. | |
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| | With any luck all those phat phones will be banned and we can get some good phones again. | |
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| rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: With any luck You have choices now. Banning the iPhone would limit choices. It also may drive up the price of your favorite Android phones.
Competition is good. It's always good as long as the competitors don't collude (*ahem* ATT and Verizon sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g...). | |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Is Microsoft Smiling? If Apple gets what it wants, it could be good for Microsoft. If Samsung/Android get what they want, it could be good for Microsoft.
Of course it could be really bad that Microsoft hasn't been accused of copying iOS or Android. | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: Is Microsoft Smiling? Nobody cares about windows phone.
We already know that it is "really bad" for that reason. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Is Microsoft Smiling? Don't be so sure.
I think Microsoft has something interesting with this new Windows 8 system.
I think they are about to come back into the mobile device market place.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Apple opened fire. You cannot expect not to take return fire What goes around comes around.
You reap what you sow.
Karma.
Call it what you like, but payback is a biatch. | |
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Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| patent reform.. I think Apple is making a long-term strategic mistake.. this will end up resulting in patent and intellectual property (maybe not at the same time) reform that in the end will reign in big coprorations' exploitation of such as a means to become the biggest MARKET CAP company in the history of the world..
Well, either this, or courts (with a small sense of wisdom and justice) will refuse to hear cases that ask for big company damaging rewards for suing and will only go to the orgininal purposes of protecting IN-USE patents (that are NOT overly broad), not exploting them for troll/toll use.
Either way, Apple will be a lesser company once they can't sue & bully their way to the top spot. Alot of reason WHY Apple is where they are is because they put out alot of fear into the market place that ANY company that makes a TOO similar product would get sued out of existence. Well, props to Samsung, to stand up to the bully. The world needs innovation, not protectionist legal schemes to make money-- those are tactics worthy of the copyright industry. | |
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| | google and apple I think the US need to change regulations of patent¡£one hand the regulations protect the company ,but it also is easy to lead the company monopolize | |
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| | I think it's time for us to change the legislation of patent. ONE hand the legislation protect the company ,in other hand it's easy to lead company monoplize | |
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