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story category Getting iPhone Slingbox App To Work Over 3G
As AT&T gets lambasted for network neutrality infraction...
09:16AM Friday May 15 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · wireless · alternatives · Op/Ed · net-neutrality
This week a Slingbox application was released via the iPhone application store that only worked over Wi-Fi -- AT&T demanding that 3G connectivity be crippled over bandwidth concerns. Of course as we noted on Wednesday, bandwidth isn't all this is about -- given AT&T is cooking up it's own place-shifting application for U-Verse and iPhone customers, which the company confirmed was in production last year.

AT&T wouldn't comment on this potential conflict when we asked them about it, only repeating a statement from earlier this week.

Click for full size
"Slingbox, which would use large amounts of wireless network capacity, could create congestion and potentially prevent other customers from using the network," says AT&T. "Applications like this, which redirects a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service."

The move makes users cry out for a future when carriers just focus on providing the best possible connectivity at the lowest possible price. Instead, what users get is carriers who insist on crippling applications, networks and gear in order to protect their own content ambitions. In the end consumers lose, because traditional telcos operating from positions of comfortable monopoly power aren't exactly gods of innovation -- though they'll certainly insist otherwise.

By late in the week AT&T was facing network neutrality attacks from all fronts, though users appear to have already found a way around crippled 3G functionality in both the Slingbox and Skype applications. Of course it requires a jailbreak, something less technologically sophisticated users aren't going to be willing to do. Gosh, if only AT&T was cooking up their own place shifting iPhone technology that required users to sign up for their U-Verse service...

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  7. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
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Forums » Getting iPhone Slingbox App To Work Over 3G
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gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
clubs:

You can't blame AT&T..

In most markets, the 3G network that's in place would be useless for an application like this. You'd be constantly buffering and would never be able to keep up. Even though it's "3G"... it's not really "3G".

proefain
Premium
join:2000-05-08
Crofton, MD

Re: You can't blame AT&T..

The Slingbox app optimizes itself depending on your network speeds. It will play just fine on "not really 3G" speeds.

funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: You can't blame AT&T..

said by proefain See Profile :

The Slingbox app optimizes itself depending on your network speeds. It will play just fine on "not really 3G" speeds.
This is my experience as well. It's adaptive and it's pretty impressive even at relatively low bitrates.
--
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gigahurtz
Premium
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Palm Coast, FL
clubs:
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
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said by proefain See Profile :

The Slingbox app optimizes itself depending on your network speeds. It will play just fine on "not really 3G" speeds.
While it may "optimize" it self, is it really going to be watchable? (I'm asking because I haven't really used the Slingbox extensively).
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: You can't blame AT&T..

Let natural laws take effect and what works will prosper and what doesn't won't. The problem here is that it more than likely will prosper and AT&T can't monetize it as much as they want right now.

User's get 5GB on their network before they start getting bent over by AT&T. That abuse of position alone will deter and limit the amount that this app is used and thus will limit the "abuse" of their network.

Of course I use the word "abuse" loosely as there are many ways that are not so controlled that can use as much if not more bandwidth then this application.

Again this just shows that those that want to provide the medium for the connection, what ever that may be, should not be allowed to provide the content going over it as well.

Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

Re: You can't blame AT&T..

said by Skippy25 See Profile :

User's get 5GB on their network before they start getting bent over by AT&T. That abuse of position alone will deter and limit the amount that this app is used and thus will limit the "abuse" of their network.
And Verizon, and Sprint. They all bend you over if you go over 5GB. Sprint used to be the only semi-sane one in the game, but since they have a 5GB limit too, well, they all suck.
--
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Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
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said by gigahurtz See Profile :

While it may "optimize" it self, is it really going to be watchable? (I'm asking because I haven't really used the Slingbox extensively).
I use slingbox on my Sprint Mogul over EVDO and it works fine. Maybe Sprint has a better 3G network but the Slingbox app seems to adjust to whatever bandwidth is available.

EdG

@eastlink.ca
So, you don't even know how well it works, but you went ahead and slammed it right off the bat.

Agenda much?
kevinzak76

join:2001-03-30
Buffalo, NY

said by gigahurtz See Profile :

said by proefain See Profile :

The Slingbox app optimizes itself depending on your network speeds. It will play just fine on "not really 3G" speeds.
While it may "optimize" it self, is it really going to be watchable? (I'm asking because I haven't really used the Slingbox extensively).
yes, it is excellent quality. i can even read the "bottom line" on ESPN where it shows the scores and other news. there is virtually zero buffering, aside from the initial startup and a slight lag when you are sending commands to the cable box.

the first month i had the app for my Bold i pretty much used it an hour a day 5 days a week for a month and only used about 700MB of data i believe. (maybe 10% of the time i was on wifi. if that is correct, then to hit your 5GB, you would pretty much need to watch over 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, assuming you used almost no wifi.

seeing that you can only have 1 client connected to a slingbox at a time, i cant see this app as having THAT much of an impact on the network, as i doubt EVERY slingbox owner in an area will be watching tv on their AT&T handset at the same time all the time.

the slingplayer is really for those times when you are waiting for a flight, riding the subway, want to catch your home team play a big game while you are out of town, etc. those things happen in bits and pieces, not every day for extended periods of time.

i just hope AT&T tested the player on the network to see the impact for real and are not just knee-jerking assuming that this would kill the network because they saw the word "streaming"

digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana

Windows Mobile for me

Add that to the many reasons I won't have an iPhone in my pocket.

I have to give AT&T one thing...they do have better coverage in my area but here's the kicker. What's the point of the extra coverage if you are constantly dropping calls...getting call failed messages, etc. In an area with a bunch of people at an event? Forget it AT&T users... here you can use my phone...done that quite a lot.

I love my Touch Pro with Windows Mobile...wouldn't trade it for anything! Well..unless you hand me a Touch Pro 2
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GOLFnSUN
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3 edits

AT&T version of Slingbox is an assumption; not a given

given AT&T is cooking up it's own place-shifting application for U-Verse and iPhone customers
AT&T version of Slingbox is an assumption; not a given.

From Wednesday:
»Assumptions....
yt
Premium
join:2008-06-03

Re: AT&T version of Slingbox is an assumption; not a given

I guess the question is around AT&T's support of AT&T Mobile TV vs non-AT&T video.

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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Re: AT&T version of Slingbox is an assumption; not a given

said by yt See Profile :

I guess the question is around AT&T's support of AT&T Mobile TV vs non-AT&T video.
AT&T mobile TV doesn't use the cell towers and 3G network to deliver TV. It uses a broadcast system like regular OTA TV designed to work with phones built for that purpose. So it isn't comparable to a Slingbox app.
»www.wireless.att.com/learn/messa···faqs.jsp
The TV programs are optimized for mobile viewing and transmitted to your phone through a nationwide network. Because the service operates on a separate network, your phone calls and data services are never interrupted.

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

given AT&T is cooking up it's own place-shifting application for U-Verse and iPhone customers
AT&T version of Slingbox is an assumption; not a given.

From Wednesday:
»Assumptions....
The difference being AT&T has demoed an actual product, so even if you want to classify it as an assumption, it's a pretty safe one.

See this: »gizmodo.com/5253135/network-use-···ngplayer

Hookem99
Deep In The Heart

join:2007-07-18
Pflugerville, TX
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Drops?

I cant even make a phone call with out it dropping. Why would I think data is is any different? I can't imagine how many issues I would have trying to watch an hour show or movie!
--
Women think they are clever just because they can fake an orgasm for a relationship, whats the big deal a man can fake a whole relationship for an orgasm!!!!
Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI

Re: Drops?

I remember when the old Cingular had the commercials/ads saying the fewest dropped calls. haha
MightyPez

join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast

I like the iPhone, but I refuse to go back to AT&T. It was expensive and lousy service (in my area, anyway).

When people try bragging to me about having an iPhone, I usually reply, "Yeah, but you use AT&T." And before they can respond their call gets dropped.
rmdir

join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL

Re: Drops?

said by MightyPez See Profile :

And before they can respond their call gets dropped.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

said by MightyPez See Profile :

I like the iPhone, but I refuse to go back to AT&T. It was expensive and lousy service (in my area, anyway).

When people try bragging to me about having an iPhone, I usually reply, "Yeah, but you use AT&T." And before they can respond their call gets dropped.
Really now? That's funny that you would say that because pretty much everywhere in south chicagoland I get pretty good signal. People please post more specific details here. How would you like if I said "The MacOS sucks, because it never worked right"? I am pretty sure all the Apple fanboys would tear me a new one.
yabos

join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON
That's all AT&T's fault. The iPhone works just fine in Canada on Rogers without dropping calls. True you don't have any choice in the USA and neither do we here really but it's not the phone's fault.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
I had a 2 1/2 call yesterday with no issues here in Los Angeles.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest

I think it really depends on what area you are in and whether you have a decent 3g capable phone.

I've got AT&T wireless with a 3G Motorola phone and travel all over the place, and my service lately has been excellent, as they build out the 3G network in more populated areas.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:

In our own forums....

»[iPhone] Slingbox app
It was being discussed in the Mac forum also, and it works well.
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Anti competitive

AT&T's anti competitive knickers are showing. I smell a class action lawsuit coming...
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Anti competitive

Oh goodie. A couple of law firms make millions and the customers affected get a coupon for $5 of anytime minutes. Woo hoo.

Unlike wired broadband there are usually several wireless companies in any given market. If you don't like AT&T and Apple telling you what you can and can't do you can certainly try one of the others.
shoan

join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR

how much data is used

Here is the question that I have. Please correct me if I have any of the facts wrong. The iPhone also has a 5 gig a month cap like all the 3g service am I right. with this thought in my head how much data is downloaded to watch say a 30 min tv show. Is this something that is kinda minor in data being transfered or would it slam you to the cap before your head could turn around. I'm curious because I am with ATT and I am looking to a smart phone or say an iPhone for my next phone in august and I just want to get it all straight because I mostly do not trust the sales people in the store. Most of them here would tell you that your phone could make home made ice cream if they thought it would result in a sale.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

Re: how much data is used

my HSDPA enabled cellular data card (Option Ultra) can do a megabit a second in a good 3G area. Doing the math this is 30 minutes * 60 secs/minute megabits, or 1.8 gigabits, or 225 megabytes. This is about 1/20 of your 5 GB monthly cap.
shoan

join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR

Re: how much data is used

and this is why I just don't get why people would want to watch video on the iPhone if in no time flat you are in overages. Seems to me the only way they are going to get teh UVERSE streaming to the cell phones is to make an exception to the 5 gig policy which flys in the face of network neutrality. Thanks for the breakdown on the math I was not sure what the data amount would have been on the TV watching.
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11

1 edit
Slingbox with normal video quality (which would be fine for an iPhone-sized screen) streams around 380 kbps. Not taking transport overhead into consideration that is about 173 megabytes per hour.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: how much data is used

said by RadioDoc See Profile :

Slingbox with normal video quality (which would be fine for an iPhone-sized screen) streams around 380 kbps. Not taking transport overhead into consideration that is about 173 megabytes per hour.
For those young folks out there that are math challenged -
Rounding up to the nearest hundredth megabyte ~ 200MB
You have a 5GB cap which = 5GB * 1024MB/GB = 5120MB
5120MB/200(MB/hr) = ~ 25.6 hours.

Seriously, think about that for a second. I really doubt the iPhone battery will last that long*, 3G is a real battery drainer - especially if you are constantly streaming.

* Expanding on this thought -
I am looking at this through using it multiple times throughout the month on a single charge in a day. That math would equate out to about 1 hr of streaming/day which is most certainly reasonable - especially for those people who travel on a train or something. Combine that with any actual voice calls and the "multitasking" email client, at a constant streaming of 1 hr will really drain your battery when you get to your destination.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:

blah

Wake me up when they finally have 2 way video phones....

Streaming video is neat and all, but it's not quite "there yet"

Besides, why do GSM networks seem to suck so badly?

TDMA based phones just seem to create weird buzzes on radios, give me headaches, drop calls constantly for no apparent reason (even with full signal strength, on a slow day), and generally agitate me.

Since GSM is based on TDMA, would it be fair to say they're related and thus both suck?

I hope America keeps CDMA around, I really do. Ever since I went to a CDMA phone I've been very impressed.

As for restricting Slingbox, they're just being paranoid.

I've seen Slingbox even on T-Mobile's 2G network, and it does just barely work. If anything, AT&T could still allow it, at a slower bitrate if they wanted to be jerks. Having it "blocked" seems like a paranoid move.

Then again, maybe it just sucks so bad that they're embarrassed at how it runs on their network.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

And yet, there's OrbLive...

"Applications like this, which redirects a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service."
Somebody better inform Apple and AT&T then about the Orb iPhone client (OrbLive) and the (free) Orb server software that allows you to watch live TV over 3G, never mind video and the like.

(and for those who are wondering, works great in the Portland/Salem, OR area)
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest

Re: And yet, there's OrbLive...

Yeah I can kind of see your point, although OrbLive isn't exactly "redirecting a TV signal". It's doing streaming from your PC to your iPhone. Now, the fact is that if you put a TV tuner card in the PC, and leave it on all the time, you can stream live TV (via the PC as an intermediate step) to your iPhone. But, not directly.

I think from a practical point of view the mass-market consumer isn't going to do the Orb thing to stream TV to their iPhone, because it requires setting up a PC as a media center and hooking it to your TV. Sling, however, is exactly a mass-market device to do just this, and so I can see where AT&T would pay more attention to it.

I bet if you look at market penetration, Sling is probably 1000 times bigger than Orb.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Re: And yet, there's OrbLive...

said by MyDogHsFleas See Profile :

Yeah I can kind of see your point, although OrbLive isn't exactly "redirecting a TV signal". It's doing streaming from your PC to your iPhone. Now, the fact is that if you put a TV tuner card in the PC, and leave it on all the time, you can stream live TV (via the PC as an intermediate step) to your iPhone. But, not directly.
But uh, that's what the Slingbox does -- it's just a stripped down PC with a TV tuner that streams video... so what's your point again?
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest

Re: And yet, there's OrbLive...

said by darcilicious See Profile :

said by MyDogHsFleas See Profile :

Yeah I can kind of see your point, although OrbLive isn't exactly "redirecting a TV signal". It's doing streaming from your PC to your iPhone. Now, the fact is that if you put a TV tuner card in the PC, and leave it on all the time, you can stream live TV (via the PC as an intermediate step) to your iPhone. But, not directly.
But uh, that's what the Slingbox does -- it's just a stripped down PC with a TV tuner that streams video... so what's your point again?
reread my post I already said it. You are confusing technology with mass market deliverable. The Slingbox is a mass market item and gets hugely more market penetration than a "media center PC" solution. Therefore it has the potential to materially affect the 3G network.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR

Re: And yet, there's OrbLive...

And like I said, either it's okay to allow video streaming apps or it's not -- based on AT&T's statement. They're allowing Apple to pick and choose. That's my point.

TuPaK

join:2002-07-21
San Gabriel, CA

3G works just fine on jailbroken iPhones

refer to my post here:

»jailbroken iPhones can stream over 3G
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

Re: 3G works just fine on jailbroken iPhones

So if it is technically capable of doing it, it must therefore be ok to release that technical capability for mass distribution and use, regardless of the scaling effects?

OK, sure. That was so obvious I didn't see it. Sorry, my mistake.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest

This is so wrong I don't know where to begin

Karl Bode insists on interpreting everything through the lens of "network neutrality", i.e. the idea that AT&T and the other owners of the networks should just be dumb pipes to the Internet. And, everything that AT&T does is therefore interpreted as a conspiracy to thwart network neutrality.

Thus, he assumes that the reason AT&T is blocking 3G access to Sling is that AT&T wants to do their own video over 3G and is conspiring to keep others out.

Karl beats this tired drum every time. All his sheep follow, bleating, posting about "the death star" and "greedy corporations" and "corrupt politicians and their lobbyists".

I really wish people would actually pay attention to the facts. Here you go:

The iPhone and U-verse linkup AT&T plans is not streaming video. The Sling app for the iPhone is streaming video. It is the potential ability to download, offline, a show and watch it later. These are two very different things when it comes to network utilization. They are not the same.

I hold out no hope that introducing an inconvenient fact into the discussion will actually stop Karl and his sheep from holding these ill-informed views. Because they want them to be true.

See 8 replies to this post

southla

@cox.net

don't know about slingbox, but AT&T's 3 G is a joke here

I have no clue about Slingbox, but I can say that post Iphone, AT&T's 3G is nothing but a cruel joke where I am. It shows 3G 5 bars until you try to use it, then it reverts to Edge with 2 bars if you are lucky. I don't drop many calls, miss a few, but then I don't make or get many calls. My Bold is essentially an email / internet device for me. As soon as Verizon gets a decent Berry, I am going to give them a try.

Deepblue

@sbcglobal.net

FonLabs

We already know where ATT et. all are going with this

»www.fonlabs.com/

Check out the content portal of the FUTURE!!!

qwertyytrewq

@optonline.net

Blackberry

Why is it that blackberry's can have this over 3G and not an iPhone. what's so different about it

blong

@verizon.net

Blame AT&T and Apple

you can blame att but not that much so blame the rest on apple I'm on sprint sad but the palm pre is cool but palm is on AT&T and sprint so the iphone 3g shod work on sprint and verizon!!!!!
Forums » Getting iPhone Slingbox App To Work Over 3G


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