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Premium
join:2004-02-18
New York, NY
edit:
December 1st, @05:12PM
| the worst. Gator is the WORST and is a completely pointless piece of software.
Ever use IE auto-complete? | |
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File Quit
Mac Geek
Premium
join:2002-11-28 | Re: the worst. How about just remembering passwords? Is it THAT hard?  | |
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dumb_user
@losrios.edu | Why use gator Just writr the passwords usernames and the urls on a piece of paper and put it under the keyboard it is safer than gator  | |
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sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs: | Re: the worst. Sadly, that is probably true!  | |
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| | | | | gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| Re: password list Do what I did, I have a barcode scanner (you could also use a modified cuecat which is dirt cheap). I print my password list as barcodes. Barcode fonts are easy to get for free off of the web and if someone were to glance at your list, they wouldn't be able to read any of the passwords. If someone stole it, time to change all your passwords. | |
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| | | | B777300
join:2002-01-02
| said by dumb_user:Why use gator Just writr the passwords usernames and the urls on a piece of paper and put it under the keyboard it is safer than gator I know someone who does this.. Not under his keyboard though, this is a g00d idea if you keep the papers safe.
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Can you say fiber optics? | |
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Anti_Cyrix
Premium
join:2003-03-06
Sacramento, CA
 ·Charter Pipeline
| said by sirsloop  :Gator is the WORST and is a completely pointless piece of software. I couldn't agree more. Well, they do have a point though... to slow down your system and provide you with a crapload of ads. | |
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| | brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: the worst. Gator is my favorite! It steals my information without me knowning. Also get unknown emails and postal mail sent to my house. Now I know how much stranger's enjoy getting to know me : ) Give's me the warm fuzzy feeling | |
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| B777300
join:2002-01-02 | Yep gator sucks.. not very easy to get rid of it either. | |
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rmartin73
Premium
join:2004-11-29
Columbus, OH
| Wow, another whoper from Gain... That just takes the cake. The face that "they" say its wrong to remove it from your or any other computer. That has to be illegal. Why can't we stop them?
by the way do you know that if you go to gator.com it WILL NOT put spyware on your comp?
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Ryan. Verizon DSL Tech Support. | |
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bedelman
Premium
join:2004-06-20
Cambridge, MA
| Further points in the article Also of possible interest, some format problems with the license (details: »www.benedelman.org/news/112904-1.html#format ):
Gator's license, as currently presented by Kazaa, merges its section headings in with body text, without bold type or line breaks to draw attention to the section headings. Six months ago, the Kazaa-Gator installer didn't have this problem.
Gator's license, as previously shown by Kazaa, used to have a "printable version" link that opened the license in Notepad, for easy searching (Edit-Find), printing, and resizing (the Maximize button, etc.). That link has been removed.
All in all, the license is harder to read now than it was six months ago. | |
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| KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA | Ironically, my neighbor is an attorney for Claria through the firm he works for... they have more attorneys on staff at Claria than are people participating in this forum. | |
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schnuggles
Stays Crunchy In Milk
join:2003-06-07
Deming, NM
| Re: This is great...... said by woody7 :crap like this keeps me in "starbucks" cards. LOL! I thought I was the only one paid in Starbucks cards! Or, for the *really* serious problems: beer.
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Salus Populi Suprema Est Lex-Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) | |
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click_310
Eat my shorts
join:2002-12-06
Savannah, GA
| Re: This is great...... said by schnuggles : LOL! I thought I was the only one paid in Starbucks cards! Or, for the *really* serious problems: beer.
Beer and Vodka ... oh and throw in some pretzels | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| Format C:? quote:
"You agree that you will not use, or encourage others to use, any unauthorized means for the removal of the GAIN AdServer, or any GAIN-Supported Software from a computer." No use of packet sniffers either, please.
Is formatting a harddrive and re-installing windows an "authorized means for removal"? Does the license stipulate any penalty for these violations?
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I'm joakimsen and I approve this message.»sveasoft.pifiu.com | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Format C:? According to their brooooaaaaaad wording, I seriously doubt it. | |
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streetwolf
join:2002-02-22
Marlboro, NJ | Re: Format C:? RoboForm...RoboForm | |
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| Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC | The penalty is that you are no longer allowed to use their software.  | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | Re: Format C:? Where are the thousands of ambulance chasing, money grubbing, frugal lawsuit, sue happy lawyers when you need them?
Why haven't these vultures decended on Gain and what they do?
Did they hire ones more evil? | |
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David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
edit:
December 1st, @06:04PM
| Brought to you by: www.pcpitstop.com for calling them "adware" and getting sued for it. So that is what thier new riches buys them..
Well gator.... YOU ARE STILL SPYWARE AND THIS JUST PROVES IT... | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Is this unauthorized? What if I install a new hard drive and reinstall the O.S. and desirable software (Gator does not fall into that category!) on the new drive, and take a sledge hammer to the old drive? Is that considered an authorized method of removal? 
Realistically, I'd love to see Gator try to enforce that provision of their EULA - I mean, after all, they could put a provision in the EULA that if you use Gator you will allow them to sell your firstborn into slavery, but that doesn't mean any court would allow them to enforce it. And I really doubt that any court would ever enforce a provision like this either, so basically they might as well fart in the wind as to include a provision like that. Just because something is included in a license agreement does not in any way mean it's lawful or enforceable.
And then there's always the question, how would they ever know to begin with? If the flow of data suddenly stops, are they going to track you down to see if you removed their software, instead of perhaps just retiring an old computer or going on an extended vacation? | |
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CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN | Same as Valve's EULA,just replace a few words here and there...;) | |
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dumb_user
@losrios.edu | We do not have gator problem in my workpalce (4000 PCs) in the dns WE SET GATOR.com and other gator related sites to resolve 0.0.0.0
It's the users agree to the EULA not the US IT Managers. | |
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| bedelman
Premium
join:2004-06-20
Cambridge, MA
| I agree that the likely purpose of the provisions about unauthorized removal is not to bring suit against individual users. But Claria may perceive these provisions to be helpful in litigation against companies that recommend removal of Claria software (Ad-Aware, Spybot, etc.). Thanks to these EULA provisions, Claria can try to accuse (say) Ad-Aware not just of "interfering with" Claria's business but also with "encouraging users to violate the EULA" or "aiding in EULA violations."
I don't mean to suggest that these claims have any merit, even when expressed in more formal terms. But the claims might nonetheless serve to intimidate anti-spyware software providers and increase anti-spyware companies' litigation costs in defending any claims brought by CLaria. | |
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| | KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: Purpose of "authorized removals" EULA provisions Young Ben,
Claria probably realizes more hassle from third parties removing their software than anything. The AdAwares and SpyBots of the world reckless remove portions of adware applications and create customer service headaches for Claria. There is no reason for third parties to trigger the removal of an application when there is an entry in add/remove programs.
Here's how it goes... John Doe gets Claria because he wants to receive music files using Kazaa. He is recklessly installing Kazaa because he's one of the sheeple that don't think before they click. Next thing he knows he has Claria installed and then for whatever reason uses AdAware or some other thrid party application to uninstall. But the uninstaller is not triggered but rather AdAware simply throws away any files it deems associated with Claria. But maybe it leaves behind a context menu entry.
Time passes until John Doe realizes there is a context menu entry. He thinks either Claria has reinstalled itself or maybe AdWare didn't do the trick. He emails Claria and says get your #$^%$^&* off my computer. Customer service says go to add/remove programs. But he can't use that function because there is no entry because AdAware deleted it. Now John Doe is pissed. He thinks Claria is not including an entry in add/remove programs. He considers it spyware now. Now he is stuck between reinstalling Claria and then going through add/remove programs or ????
Again, no third party software applications need to provide tools to uninstall software. Operating systems already have the capabilities. Now if a company doesn't provide an entry, then have at it.
Ben, you are a smart twenty-something. Be responsible in your bashing when you portray yourself as a researcher. | |
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| | | bedelman
Premium
join:2004-06-20
Cambridge, MA
| Gator Often Lacks an Add/Remove Entry KCT, I have no doubt that "unauthorized" removals create some headaches for Claria. But you get the facts wrong, in an important respect, when you claim "There is no reason for third parties to trigger the removal of an application when there is an entry in add/remove programs." That sentence may be true, taken on its own terms. But it doesn't apply to Gator as installed with Kazaa: Gator does not then have an entry in Add/Remove.
From my article: "If Gator were easy to uninstall, users might not need to resort to third-party removal programs. But Gator makes its software hard to remove. Browse to Add/Remove Programs on a computer with Gator installed, and there's often no entry for Gator. Instead, users are required to identify, find, and remove all programs that bundle Gator, and only then is Gator's software designed to uninstall. This unusual removal procedure -- unique among all programs I've ever encountered -- makes Gator difficult for users to remove." | |
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| | | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| Re: Purpose of "authorized removals" EULA provisio said by KCT2002 :Claria probably realizes more hassle from third parties removing their software than anything. The AdAwares and SpyBots of the world reckless remove portions of adware applications and create customer service headaches for Claria. There is no reason for third parties to trigger the removal of an application when there is an entry in add/remove programs. Oh, and Claria's "hidden" bundled software, doesn't cause hassles and headaches for those that find out that they have it installed, and likewise, the customer-support lines for their PC builder/vendor, when the clueless user calls them up to help remove the unwanted software that was installed?
There is no reason for third party adware/spyware software to be installed along with an installation of another application, without: a) being clearly disclosed, offering the user a choice in said installation, and b) being easily and cleanly un-installable.
said by KCT2002 :Again, no third party software applications need to provide tools to uninstall software. Operating systems already have the capabilities. Now if a company doesn't provide an entry, then have at it. That's clearly untrue, based on the number of 3rd-party installation-monitoring/uninstallation-helper software (ever heard of CleanSweep?), because the OS doesn't actually have *any* functionality in that regards. It simply provides a designated area for installed programs to list themselves and a helper routine to be called for de-installation. However, many, many applications (not limited to just unwanted bundled advertising-ware), do not fully un-install themselves, hence the need for 3rd-party tools to clean up after them.
said by KCT2002 :Be responsible in your bashing when you portray yourself as a researcher. Likewise. | |
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| KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA
| I have not installed Kazaa in sometime and as you can appreciate this stuff changes frequently. So if Claria is in fact installing with Kazaa and the ads are attributed to Claria but no add/remove entry exists for Claria, then maybe (MAYBE) a problem exists.
But that being said, Claria is more than reasonable in their efforts to identify themselves during the install process. And if end users weren't so reckless in their effort to "share" music, maybe they wouldn't have this advertising experience they don't in fact want.
My biggest problems related to this crusade is the hypocrisy and unique standards Claria is held to. Why not attack AOL for their practices? They deliver unattributed pop ups if you use their IM client (see their TravelZoo ads), they bundle Viewpoint so they can deliver more sophisticated advertisements (find me that consent and EULA), they take enormous ad buys from Freeze.com and others who proliferate the distribution of adware products, they even use Claria as a method to promote their services (see their press release today about their video search services). I can create a similar story about Yahoo or Real Networks.
I'm tired of the whining about Claria (and WhenU and 180 Solutions) when your real complaint is the Internet as a whole and its attempts to deliver advertising. It seems like you seek an overly utopian pipe dream to me (although I clearly know why you do it).
The World has bigger problems than Claria and other legitimate adware companies. | |
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| | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| Re: Is this unauthorized? said by KCT2002 :And if end users weren't so reckless in their effort to "share" music, maybe they wouldn't have this advertising experience they don't in fact want. Are you suggesting, that Claria only intends to target those users that are involved in ethically-questionable file-sharing practices, and that therefore excuses Claria's own ethically-questionable means of advertising? That two wrongs do make a "right", for advertising-ware? I think not.
said by KCT2002 :I'm tired of the whining about Claria (and WhenU and 180 Solutions) when your real complaint is the Internet as a whole and its attempts to deliver advertising. It seems like you seek an overly utopian pipe dream to me (although I clearly know why you do it). Do you somehow think that "spam" is an acceptable practise as well? I see "hidden" bundled advertising-ware as much the same, ethically-speaking. | |
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sirsloop
Premium
join:2004-02-18
New York, NY | Re: On the other hand My EULA
by replying to this thread one more time you automatically owe me 10 million dollars.
reasonable EULA?  | |
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ff1324
Where did the time go?
Premium
join:2002-08-24
On Four Day
| Re: On the other hand Quite reasonable if you ask me....
My EULA, by reading my reply to your post, you owe me 11 million dollars. 
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The funny thing about firemen...night and day they're always firemen | |
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birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
December 1st, @08:26PM
| It's obvious no one here *has* read the EULA... (except Benedelman.) There are some real gems inside: »www.benedelman.org/spyware/clari···504.html
"...you hereby represent that your computer's the time zone settings accurately reflect the physical location of your computer." They want to know if you are really an insomniac logged on in the middle of the night. You'll gets ads for Ambien.
You cannot export it to Iraq or other war-torn countries, or to a resident or national of such countries that are on the U.S. embargo list, but it doesn't matter so much because "GP shall not be liable for any delay or failure in performance under this Agreement or interruption of service resulting from acts of God, civil or military authority, war, labor disputes, materials provided by third parties, or any cause beyond the reasonable control of GP."
If any of the Iraqi religious clerics take a good look at this little facet of Western civilization, it will affirm their conviction that the U.S. is the Great Satan.
If the adserver gets taken down, it will probably be an al-Qaeda plot. Terrorism of the worst sort. | |
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Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA | Re: It's obvious no one here *has* read the EULA... Why would i read an EULA of something that i already know what it is and i will never use? I've read it before.. in their early versions, before the name switch. | |
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at-work
@via-christi.org | screw gator! I should email them and tell them to put their Eula and their SPYWARE up their rears! | |
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KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA
| horsewash... Ben Edelman makes a living creating a false sense of insecurity related to these claims. Ask Ben who has paid him for services. Ask Ben who he's "asked" to pay him for services.
I don't disagree that Claria has an extensive EULA. I also don't agree that pop-up advertisements can be annoying. But I also find it ridiculous that we make such a big deal about something that (1) requests consent at install regardless of it's length (2) includes an entry in add/remove programs (3) provides attribution in its pop-ups.
The Internet is full of agressive activity associated with Internet advertising... see AOL, Real Networks, etc. Everyone has their hand in these advertising methods. Let's stop being hypocritical and self-righteous about what is right and wrong and take responsibility for our own actions. If you lack the patience or intelligence to understand Claria's process or how to uninstall it, then you shouldn't be operating a computer. | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Funny thing... Advertising.
It's largely just controlled annoyance. How do I create a message to let the world know about my product but do so in a way that actually incites them to purchase my product or service without being annoyed by the message.
Advertisers long have established their belief that their 1st amendment rights trump your "right" to be left alone. It's also been very clear for ages that companies will pay good $$$ to be seen. Thus why they spend millions on adverts during major television events, and why they hire orgs like Claria et al to do their bidding for them. This is also why we have spam.
In the evolution of adverts, it has gone from the simple print ad, which is really quite pedestrian in the grand scheme of things - to television and radio, a far more captive audience - to your PC.
Marketeers do have a right to do their work, no question. However, the issue is HOW they do what they do, not THAT they do what they do. I disagree with the notion that Gator et al are providing an easy way to uninstall. Complete crap. There's a reason why this EULA says what it does.
It has been determined by the courts and the US Govt that it's citizens have a right to privacy in their home. This is why we have the national do-not-call list by the way folks.
What has been funny is to also watch the national networks try to say that you are obligated to watch ads. That somehow this is part of an EULA you've agreed to, and thus your RePlay or TiVo was illegal. There is a reason they have lost that one.
I don't know I can say KCT2002 is with Claria, but he/she/it may be in the advert business - a very defensive bunch in my view. At best he/she/it just has a very different view than most here. I also have to disagree with the notion that "cleanware" aka AV, ASpw, ASpm etc apps are largely to blame for system issues. That is quite funny indeed.
Bottom line is that I consider their stuff crapware, and I have the right to have that opinion. Try to tell me I don't. I also have the right to control what comes before my eyes - period. If that means I delete their stuff contrary to their EULA - I will.
Of course the possibility I would install their stuff (or install an app which includes their junk) is quite low indeed.
I will also agree with several who advocate user education. Of course - if users were fully educated, Claria/Gator etc would have to shut down, as no one would install their stuff....well, not knowingly at least...hmmm.....
K.
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TheGlobalMind.com
The agnostic dyslexic insomniac stays up all night wondering if there is a dog. | |
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Gator's EULA
Re: Further points in the article
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This is great......
Gator Removal