GameRail Closes Up ShopWhy pay a premium for decent routing? 11:35AM Monday Apr 21 2008 by Karltags: business · alternatives · gaming · bandwidth · networkingYou may recall our coverage of a company by the name of Gamerail, who promised to reduce gaming latency (lag) for an extra monthly fee, provided your ISP partnered with them. Via the use of a few routing shortcuts (using the Broadwing and XO networks), the company charged gamers $11.99 a month for optimized routing. Last year several of our users participated in the beta and stress tests, and offered their very mixed opinions of both the system and the shiny, orange GUI. Several beta participants told us they saw little actual benefit, and the idea of paying for decent routing annoyed many. Promises were made by Gamerail about expanding the network and new ISP partnerships. Employees occasionally stopped by our forums to hype their product as a solution for customers of crappy ISPs in uncompetitive areas: If you don't have an option for ISPs in your area, and the one you have is unwilling to fix a problem, is oversold, or any other of many reasons for bad performance, GameRail may be able to help. Or not. Late last week Gamerail posted an announcement to their website saying they were closing up shop: It is with deep regret to announce that the GameRail network has been discontinued at this time. Thank you to the gamers who have participated in the GameRail trial and support of its development as we worked to solve the issues of latency and network quality and their impact on gaming. We believe that latency and network quality will continue to affect the gaming experience and while we are still believers in the GameRail concept, the market does not appear to be ready to support a standalone network for gaming at this time. In other words, the company couldn't strike additional ISP partnership deals, and consumers didn't feel like a slight bump in latency was worth $12, particularly if their ISP already provided decent routing.
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Didn't think it would last... $12/month is a bit pricey, and you're still at the mercy of your own ISP throttling/traffic shaping.
All this provides is a tunnel to another site, and still doesn't guarantee anything - not enough traffic to make a good business case for it.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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Flummoxed
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Saint Peters, MO
edit:
April 21st, @11:43AM
| Tried it for a day.. I tried this(paid) for one day and canceled not to long after. I liked the idea of it, but they would force you to use only the game servers connected to their network.
edit: Oh and they never got around to making a 64bit client, having to dual boot just to use it was a pain in the butt. | |
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QuantumX
I Know You're Here
join:2000-11-16
Thunder Bay, ON
clubs:  | Re: Tried it for a day.. Actually the 64-bit client was almost done beta. Conductor worked pretty good.
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The Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner!! The only MS product that doesn't suck. | |
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Flummoxed
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Saint Peters, MO | Re: Tried it for a day.. Ah, guess I gave up and stoped watching them to soon. | |
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Mchart
Tech Control
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Yahoo
| Enough Said As stated, the service didn't provide enough. I was in the beta, and -maybe- saw an improvement of 5ms to servers in Chicago from down here in San Antonio. I allready have excellent latency to most everywhere in the US. Gamerail would be cool to use if it were free, or maybe ad supported somehow. But 12 bucks a month? Naw, no thanks. When i'm allready getting 14ms to my favorite servers gamerail isn't going to help.
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"You figured it out. All new CPU's are nothing but overclocked Pentium 1's with a few bells and whistles added, ask any ol timer whose been around." | |
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moonfish
join:2007-09-13
Memphis, TN | too bad I was a beta tester and I didn't see much improvement, if any, when I had Comcast. After I switched to AT&T DSL my favorite servers were pinging 100+, with Gamerail it dropped to 65 or 70. I'll miss them. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| People hate paying twice for something should have already Part of the reason you have broadband is for things like less latency, faster online game play.
The idea of paying even more money to get something you should already have is annoying. Only the really hardcore gamers who live and breath and die online FPS would probably consider it. If your ISP is so crappy that your online gaming experience sucked, most people would be looking for a new ISP first...
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
 ·Site5.com
| Re: People hate paying twice for something should have already said by KrK  :Part of the reason you have broadband is for things like less latency, faster online game play. The idea of paying even more money to get something you should already have is annoying. Only the really hardcore gamers who live and breath and die online FPS would probably consider it. If your ISP is so crappy that your online gaming experience sucked, most people would be looking for a new ISP first... However, many people don't have a choice of ISPs, especially broadband ones. Most people are stuck with only one.
To you and I and every other internet gamer, every broadband connection should have less latency and fast gameplay without lag spikes or connectivity issues. It seems that most ISPs are paying less attention to that aspect and more about the speeds of the line. Internet gamers don't need a 20mbps line. All they need is a 1.5mbps line with excellent latency. The problem is that the common consumer doesn't know that fact. They just think that more is better. | |
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Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| DSL is Latency Solution anyone serious about gaming, already uses a DSL based ISP instead of CableTV based ISP. that's the best solution to cutting down lag to your game servers. some people will always be screwed by their rural/suburban geography as their packets get routed from CO to CO till they finally make it to a major on ramp router. others should call and complain to their ISP to get rerouted as the routing table in your CO's switch can get neglected unless enough people complain. that may not solve Latency, but it should minimize Lag potential by reducing the number of hops your connection is subjected. | |
| | brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: DSL is Latency Solution My friend has DSL and his ping is much higher on servers than my cable connection. | |
| | battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Did you just make that up? | |
| | ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
·AT&T Southeast
·Charter Pipeline
| Yah thats just a big pile of bs. I had a cable connection and my pings were 50-80ms better on cable that I have ever got on DSL. The DSL connection has problems staying connected and is SLOW. I'm going back to cable as soon as they lay the lines in my new subdivision. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: DSL is Latency Solution said by ender7074 :Yah thats just a big pile of bs. I had a cable connection and my pings were 50-80ms better on cable that I have ever got on DSL. The DSL connection has problems staying connected and is SLOW. I'm going back to cable as soon as they lay the lines in my new subdivision. Same here... Latency on DSL was horrible compared to my cable connection. Now with FIOS, it is excellent!
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: DSL is Latency Solution my comments are based on comparisons I do with other game players and their connections. there will of course be many exceptions to every rule, yet the majority of best lag game opponents seem more often to be on DSL than Cable. of course, FIOS is a whole different story altogether. | |
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mike69
@radiant.net | Re: DSL is Latency Solution BS, Cable is always faster than DSL, I have never seen a DSL latency ever lower than the competing cable company. | |
| | | | | | Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: DSL is Latency Solution My latency is always lower than Roadrunner's latency here. I wouldn't say that, as service can very by area. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: DSL is Latency Solution said by Smith6612 :My latency is always lower than Roadrunner's latency here. I wouldn't say that, as service can very by area. Truth is that it depends on ISP and individual service area... Both can be better.
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by mike69 :
BS, Cable is always faster than DSL, I have never seen a DSL latency ever lower than the competing cable company. That's BS. Another person who doesn't understand line speed vs latency.
Latency to servers is effected by many things, namely number of hops, distance to said server. That being said I have seen some DSL lines with very low latency and very responsive gaming despite being a lot "Slower" then the cable company's tiers.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: DSL is Latency Solution said by KrK :said by mike69 :
BS, Cable is always faster than DSL, I have never seen a DSL latency ever lower than the competing cable company. That's BS. Another person who doesn't understand line speed vs latency. Latency to servers is effected by many things, namely number of hops, distance to said server. That being said I have seen some DSL lines with very low latency and very responsive gaming despite being a lot "Slower" then the cable company's tiers. Exactly. No connection is better than another at the consumer level IMHO.. It all depends on the peer connection and network maintenance the ISP does.
-Tzale
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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| | | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| said by Packeteers :there will of course be many exceptions to every rule, There are so many exceptions that your statement doesn't come close to qualifying as a rule -- I'd classify it as rote conjecture resulting from a superiority complex. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| said by Packeteers :anyone serious about gaming, already uses a DSL based ISP instead of CableTV based ISP. that's the best solution to cutting down lag to your game servers. some people will always be screwed by their rural/suburban geography as their packets get routed from CO to CO till they finally make it to a major on ramp router. others should call and complain to their ISP to get rerouted as the routing table in your CO's switch can get neglected unless enough people complain. that may not solve Latency, but it should minimize Lag potential by reducing the number of hops your connection is subjected. Stop spreading that urban legend. Cable offers just as low latency as DSL can. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA |  Bah!
-Tzale | |
| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Bah! So the people who started Gamerail can have jobs and fun toys to play with! | |
| | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cox HSI
| They should, but maybe its too expensive for them to justify doing? It would be slimy if the ISPs were artificially degrading one level of service and then selling a clean one. However, this is a separate company offering a service to help people who are willing to pay more.
There's nothing wrong with a new company trying to sell a service to meet a need, but obviously the need isn't great enough to justify the cost. | |
| | brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | sad They should of just add VPN routing and just have certain game ports open. I don't see a point for private locked servers. | |
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mrchris
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Silly Why not just connect to game servers CLOSEST to you? I had a feeling this was not gonna be around for long. | |
| | TheMG
join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB | Re: Silly Because sometime there just isn't any good servers in the area.
Maybe not if you live in the East, but over here that can certainly be an issue. | |
| Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
| No need for this... Verizon's routing for my DSL already gives me great pings and routing with the service. Why pay a few extra dollars more when 1: There is no fiber stopping point based on the map near me within 300 miles (more than 300 miles of fiber as my data has to go to NYC first), and 2: I hardly lag in games unless it's me causing it or the server's stupid. | |
| chrispix
join:2004-08-25
Rowlett, TX
| Was using this on Fios. As I have mentioned in the Fios forums, Verizon or the Planet has hosed up their BGP routes, and my route from dallas to dallas, took me thru New York, Washington DC, Houston and back to Dallas, pings to servers were anywhere from 50ms -> 180ms. Gamerail dropped me down to 15ms. Looks like I am screwed again. Verizon won't fix anything, and they say that they are not responsible for routes off their network. Thing is... The routing that takes me to New York IS on their network. gni-verizon oh well.
It worked fine on my Xp-64 bit system, and certainly provided some network stability, too bad they are gone. It looks like I have to look for some new servers to play on. | |
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JoshC1
join:2007-09-25
Sanford, NC
edit:
April 22nd, @08:24AM
| Not to hijack this thread... But for those of you who say that cable is better than DSL need to rethink what you are saying. DSL is a Digital Subscriber Line. You pay for your bandwidth. Period. Cable is nothing more than a huge pipe that many people share off of, so for those of you who say DSL IS SO SLOW OMG OMG OMG ITS SO SLOW COMPARED TO CABLE think again. Try getting on cable at prime time with a few bittorrenthappy leechers with no knowledge of managing bittorrent. DSL doesn't have that problem, unless you are on an oversold DSLAM. The bottom line is that if you are having slow speeds at prime time with Cable, then there's nothing your ISP can really do. With DSL, it is normally either:
A) Inside Wiring interference= Low SNR which can be fixed with a whole house filter.
B) High attenuation= if the customer is too far then he should not be able to get dsl anyway. If he/she chooses knowning the distance then he should NOT expect 85% of provisioned speed.
C) Problems within the network= One can bug the ISP about this issue until its resolved...even though it can be annoying at times. I will admit that this can be harder said than done, and it can really stretch peoples' patience.
D) Oversold DSLAM= if this is the case, then you can just credit every month that you don't get 85% speeds, which will save the customer money in the long run.
There should be no such thing as a slowdown during prime time with DSL because you pay for the bandwidth that you use. With cable, prime time can be a pain the neck depending where you are and who your isp is. I'm not a DSL fan boy, but for those who are bashing dsl, think again before you go bashinghappy. | |
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink
| DSL performance vs Cable How does one compare an over-sold understaffed and ill-equipped DSL service against a Cable service that is oversold lacking support etc as well? I would venture to guess my personal DSL performance sucks compared to the performance offered by the local cable provider, all things being equal.
One can only say that the performance that DSL service to a location and provided by dsl provider A is or isn't faster than cable service provided to same location by Cable service provider B. You can't broad base paint the picture that all DSL is faster or slower than all Cable. | |
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JoshC1
join:2007-09-25
Sanford, NC
| Re: DSL performance vs Cable said by jimbo48 :
You can't broad base paint the picture that all DSL is faster or slower than all Cable.
Who said I was doing that? I will admit that cable is "faster" when it comes to bandwidth, but you are not guaranteed that speed due to sharing a huge pipe with a zillion other people. All I was saying is that normally dsl is more reliable when it comes do bandwidth and latency (depending on who the ISP is). From what I have gathered from your post, you are saying the same thing I am saying, except for the last sentence. I admit that in some areas cable is faster than dsl, but when dsl is maintained properly, it is generally more reliable than cable in latency/bandwidth terms. | |
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink
| Re: DSL performance vs Cable JoshC1
didn't mean to indicate that you were painting with a big brush just a comment that there are a lot of "if-then-else" to comparing DSL to Cable.
The sad fact is, in my area, that neither DSL or Cable are maintained or optimized for performance. We're still working out of a CO that has seen explosive growth in number of homes ,apts.. etc yet the same decrepit CO. The cable company enjoys a monopoly from the city and does whatever it pleases. I've not seen cable being replaced in probably 20 years in my neighborhood yet experienced so many rate hikes that I finally dropped the cable.
Yes, you take the optimum conditions for each transport and you'll see an advantage in going DSL but to obtain optimum conditions is a pipedream. The cable and Telcos aren't going to spend that kind of money when they can get premium prices using the decrepit equipment and infrastructure currently in place.(I'm speaking of just my location) you may be fortunate enough to have upgrading going on.
Bottom line-I had no intention of saying that you were painting with a broad brush and apologize if it came across as such.
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