  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Simple Answer Get rid of the USF and there will be no waste. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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  Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 | Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Gov't by definition and design = waste. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |   mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Actually, they "belong" in the same sentence... they just never seem to make there together. But, that's politics for you:
govt = politics = waste
Pity we can't get what we're payin' for: actual representation. | |
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 |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Such Republican political talking points. Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense. | |
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 |  |  |   DataDoc My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D. Premium join:2000-05-14 Greenville, NC 1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence It's not about politics, it's about waste. | |
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·RoadRunner Cable
| Whose baby is that? Whats your angle? Ill buy that! That |
Of course, this is from the old timey days; when Bush's proposed bailout was a modest $700Billion.
NV -- In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people. I call it the Crapture. | |
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join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| Republican vs. Democrat = two sides of the same coin. Companies are in business to make money... duh. Our representatives are "supposed" to represent our interests--"our" as in "we the people". Of course, if they were ever to do that, I'm sure half the population would faint from the shock. | |
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 |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Yep. | |
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 |  |  |  |   mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence It's not that profit is evil. It's the lying that people do to get it, and get more of it, that's evil. It's that whole "money is the root of all evil" thing. Those who seek it go to the places where they can get it. | |
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join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL
1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence said by mod_wastrel :It's that whole "money is the root of all evil" thing. Sounds like a populist message that has been skewed by the current fascist regime.
The correct phrase is "The love of money is the root of all evil"
We are not evil because we need money. We need it to pay our mortgages, feed our families, cloth our children and help those less fortunate. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence I was just using a figure of speech, not trying to quote proverbs. (Did you read my previous post where I said "[money] is not evil"?) | |
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 |  |  |  |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH
| Republicans talk about a "free market", but in a true free market profit tends towards zero. That's in the best interests of the public, because any profit that a corporation makes simply goes into the coffers of rich executives or banked away by the company.
All those billions in profits in other words are drained from the national economy. So yes, if companies are making lots of profit especially due to a lack of competition, it is very, very evil, and hurts everyone but the richest.
And Republicans and Democrats are NOT two sides of the same coin, unless you take a century-long view. While there are honest Democrats and honest Republicans, and liars on both sides, Republicans by and large are biased, selfish rednecks or rich jerks who care only about doing away with government control just enough to let them abuse the populace to make even more money. The fact is our entire quality of life would be different had a Democrat been elected instead of Bush, who basically trashed our national economy and alienated the US with all its foreign allies. | |
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4 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Those billions in profit are not "drained" from the national economy because those profits are reinvested in the business, buying more equipment, developing new products, hiring more people and/or paid as dividends to shareholders who then spend it.
And lets not forget, for all but utilities (which are for the most part regulated), that money is given up by consumer choice, it is not stolen from them. If someone doesn't want to drop $2000 on a new MacBook Pro or $30000 on a new car they don't have to. If someone doesn't want to buy zillions of gallons of $5/gal in gas they can carpool, combine trips, drive a more economical car, ride a bike, etc. Even when it comes to utilities, they can turn off lights, use the A/C less, water the lawn less and save their money.
No one is putting a gun to anyone's head so that a corporation can make profit.
The government on the other hand STEALS their money under penalty of imprisonment. People don't have the choice of keeping their money by not using government services. And the harder a person works, the more productive they are, the more the government steals from them. The government punishes hard work with progressive taxes and rewards the lazy. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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·RoadRunner Cable
| said by sonicmerlin :Republicans by and large are biased, selfish rednecks or rich jerks who care only about doing away with government control just enough to let them abuse the populace to make even more money. Hey, look everybody. Mainstream media talking points, regurgitated and parroted in easy to swallow sound bytes.
I wasn't even aware Chris Matthews was a member of DSLR.
said by sonicmerlin :The fact is our entire quality of life would be different had a Democrat been elected instead of Bush, who basically trashed our national economy A democrat has been elected. Seeing how he is continuing Bush policies on the issues that will impact us the longest, I'm not seeing a whole lot of that difference.
said by sonicmerlin :and alienated the US with all its foreign allies. Can you name any competent foreign ruler in history that had America's interests ahead of it's own countries interests? Which foreign ruler would you give a greater influence over US Policy?
NV -- In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people. I call it the Crapture. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 2 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence No kidding. Obama I is just Bush III X 4 when it comes to deficit spending and government bailouts. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence And your source for this statements comes from??? Hannity? | |
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join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence I think it comes from Amtrack's balance sheet. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Noah Vail Premium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by SLD :said by GOLFnSUN :said by SLD :Such Republican political talking points. Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense. (Corporate costs + profits) is still less $ than (gov't inefficiency + no profits). And that is the formula that matters. And your source for this statements comes from??? Hannity? How's this for a source. »www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/
Can you give an example of a situation where there was no meaningful accounting for discretionary spending, that wasn't riddled with spending abuse?
NV -- In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people. I call it the Crapture. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence LOL...*that's* your source. No wonder you are so misguided! | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Noah Vail Premium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence said by SLD :LOL...*that's* your source. No wonder you are so misguided! My Source is a diagrammed version of the US Budget; itself sourced from the President's official budget request and the comptroller of the Department of Defense.
You find those to be unreliable sources of information. I suppose they just don't carry the same weight for you, that Entertainment Tonight and MTV do.
NV -- In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people. I call it the Crapture. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Ooohhh... a diagramed version. Here is what I found:
"WallStats.com is the home of 28 year-old creative wizard Jess Bachman."
Now that's a source I can trust! And it's for sale! LOL!!! | |
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1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Dig deeper, in their FAQ they state what their sources are.
»www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/
Plus favorable quotes from NPR, OpenCongress.org, Silvan, NASA Mission Director Madden of the GSFC, US Joint Systems Command, etc.
quote: The figures used to create the graph come directly from the President's official budget request and the comptroller of the Department of Defense. The Intelligence budget figures are estimates from globalsecurity.org.
-- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Well, I'm sure that "creative wizard" Jess Bachman got all the math right, and he is a perfect source of informational opinion to backup your arguments. Me, I prefer something a bit more established. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Well, if you have contradicting data disproving its accuracy, we would love to see it. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   SLD Premium join:2002-04-17 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Look, Googling for data during a debate and posting the first link you find isn't going to impress anyone. If you don't know much, just stand back and read what is stated by those with education.
Good night. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence So you have nothing, that is what I figured. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Noah Vail Premium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by SLD :Look, Googling for data during a debate and posting the first link you find isn't going to impress anyone. If you don't know much, just stand back and read what is stated by those with education.Good night. If I had to defend your position, I'd run away too, after running my mouth.
Jess Bachman's extrapolation of government data caught the attention of Boingboing which ran an interview with him in 2006 over his project and then again in 2008.
His discretionary spending graphs have been enlarged and featured on the halls of US government installations such as The Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
Even though you feel you can judge the validity of US Budgetary data better than the US Department of Energy, I'm afraid you're just too far removed from reality to pull that off.
Any maybe you believe the Boingboing columnist has been snookered for 2 years running, along with tens of thousands of digg users and (CASN) at the University of California Berkeley Graduate School of Education who've offered it as a portion of their education curriculum.
Given the what else you've offered here as debate, I can see you glorifying your personal opinion as being more authoritative than all of the above. Such a disconnection between evidence and belief also tells me that you must have been a strong O'Bama supporter before the election.
NV -- In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people. I call it the Crapture. | |
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join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL
| said by SLD :Well, I'm sure that "creative wizard" Jess Bachman got all the math right As did the 25 year old car czar that stole money from the Indiana pension fund and handed it over to the UAW | |
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4 edits | Except corporations earn their money, they don't steal it by Federal mandate just to set it on fire in corrupt waste-filled bullcrap.
Just look at oil, with all the screaming that goes on about Exxon profits, government makes 6X the "profit" off a gallon of gas than Exxon does. Exxon makes about $0.10/gal profit per gallon and when you sell as much product as they do it equates to insane amounts of profit, in the tens of billions of dollars.
BUT, the Federal government excise tax is $0.184/gal plus there is state excise tax, sales tax etc. In California for example, while Exxon makes their hefty $0.10 per gallon, government makes $0.639/gal. »www.californiagasprices.com/Tax_Info.aspx So when evil corporate Exxon makes $10B, the goverment rakes in well over $60B. When evil Exxon makes $40B, the government rakes in well over $240B.
PLUS government gets to tax Exxon on those billions in profit and they tax the crap out of everyone who works at Exxon (in the U.S.)...even more insane government profit off Exxon's efforts. Meanwhile government didn't do a damn thing for it except endlessly vilify them. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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 |  |  |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | A wise person once said, "There is no such thing as a free lunch." Think about that and how it applies here. | |
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1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence They see it as free so long as someone else is paying. They aren't concerned with the burdens their thieving and leeching puts on the productive elements of society.
Thankfully we are not on the only ones who recognize the total failure of government.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
And no teleprompter  -- POKE 65495,1 | |
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  NetAdmin CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| Reform E-Rate and ditch the rest... Simple solution to the E-Rate program, just narrow it down to what it was suppose to be for, to enable Internet access at schools and libraries. Right now, schools can purchase servers, workstations, switches, access points, etc. on the program. Eliminate the ability to do that and you fix most of what is wrong with E-Rate. -- "This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
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 |  BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02 Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| Re: Reform E-Rate and ditch the rest... Amen. When I went to one of the lame training sessions, I was appalled to find out what you could and could not claim as eligible items. It appeared to me they have no idea what DNS, DHCP, email etc... really are. I could claim money for the hardware for a DNS server if it provided access to the district. It would be so easy to bilk them. Like I have an entire blade dedicated to just DNS for one school??? What the heck would happen if we virtualized things? How am I going to claim and document that? Then the whole VoIP thing is a mess. Can't claim the hardware but can claim the services? Joke.
You're right, use it for what it is intended for. | |
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 BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02 Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| Re: GAO Reading the eSchool News today highlights the GAO's report. A separate company, Funds for Learning LLC, found about $5 Billion in unused funds for the eRate program. A provision in the eRate program says that those funds can be rolled over, but that this "gap" is still an alarming trend in the oversight and administration of eRate because it continues year after year.
It takes the business manager and myself to go through eRate for our school. We are incredibly small, and I shudder to think what some huge districts have to go through. They must have to pay a company to deal with eRate or at least have somebody full time to focus just on that process. It is an absolute mockery of what a "streamlined" process should be. Our district needs those funds and that program does work, but the competitive bidding process is a joke, the whole thing is a slush fund. Good grief it needs fixing. | |
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 |  ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16 Grass Lake, MI
·Alltel Axess
| Re: GAO It sounds like the similar nonsense doctors deal with regarding insurance companies, Medicare and Medicade. The forms, the accounting, the policy rabbit-trails are onerous by design in order to discourage use. That goes the same for tax exemptions and credits, applying for welfare, etc. In some cases it can be a good thing but when policy is so narrowly written that it excludes 80% of those it was intended to benefit, it becomes nothing more than a soapbox for a politican. "See what I gave you," they shout to the press, nevermind the fact it doesn't work.
This process is a big time-waster. All that effort and energy can be costly and takes resources from places where they're better served, like education and caring for sick patients. | |
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 ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16 Grass Lake, MI
·Alltel Axess
| No surprise -- broken links I was thankful Karl posted a link to the USF page...and then I found that the FAQ and Universal Service Home Page links don't work. It's a small issue but part of a bigger one -- wasteful government spending and no accountability.
I don't have a landline and I'm rural. I pay into the USF yet my internet connection is heavily taxed because it's a wireless USB aircard.
The old, scary saying is still true. "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."
Run away! Run away! | |
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  imanogre
join:2005-11-29 Mcdonough, GA | GAO stands for what? Am I the only one who caught that the article says GAO = General Accounting Office... yet the seal says Government Accountability Office... | |
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  TTT
| Define your source Please provide concrete figures and a source to your statement "rampant abuse" in E-rate. As far as I am aware the "abuse" is not rampant - nor has it ever been officially designated as such, even by the GAO. The FCC OIG issued Round 1 IPIA reports on 10/2/2007 In general, the audits indicated compliance with the Commissions rules . . . . OIG-reported improper payment (IPIA) rates by program: Schools and Libraries - 12.9%
In Round 2 the IPIA rate was identified as 13.8% with a margin of error of +/- 3.1%. | |
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