First Rule Of Sprint Pre Club: No Unofficial Tethering Talk'Next Gen' Phones Ruined By 'Last Gen' Networks, Thinking 12:15PM Monday Jun 15 2009 by Karl Bodetags: competition · business · wireless · hardware · Sprint Telecom · Cingular WirelessLike the iPhone, the Pre doesn't officially support tethering, which leads people who just spent a significant amount of money for a "next-generation" device to naturally explore how to make it happen. Pre Thinking notes that Palm has "politely" warned the folks behind the Pre Dev Wiki that they can't talk about unofficial Pre tethering -- for fear of angering the people at Sprint. From a statement posted to the developer's site: We have been politely cautioned by Palm that any discussion of tethering during the Sprint exclusivity period (and perhaps beyond--we don't know yet) will probably cause Sprint to complain to Palm, and if that happened then Palm would be forced to react against the people running the IRC channel and this wiki. We want to retain a good relationship with Palm, hence we are not allowing discussion of tethering on the IRC channel, or in this wiki. In short, Palm doesn't want users even talking about unofficial tethering because they believe Sprint would force them to take legal action -- against a community simply interested in getting the absolute most of their new handsets. As with AT&T's fear of tethering or, well, any application that actually uses bandwidth -- there's a lot of that going around these days, despite all the talk of "next generation wireless" functionality. Even with the potential for low caps and high overages that would make higher consumption profitable, tethering (official or unofficial) terrifies carriers. This fear should tell you volumes about just how prepared current wireless broadband networks are for a flood of users eager to treat EVDO and HSDPA connections like terrestrial lines. If you'd like to discuss official or unofficial tethering, please feel free to stop by our cellphone and carrier forum, if you value open communication over "a good relationship with Palm."
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 |  | | | | | | | | xenophon
join:2007-09-17 | Re: Building the "Then" NetworkJust tethered...
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| flycuban
join:2005-04-25
Homestead, FL
| Blah Blah It's all about money. Company A makes 14 billion this year.. Next year they have to make 16 billion. Less services, less network upgrades, and less options. And people are so stupid to pay $400.00 for a phone... that at the end of the day is a phone! and pay over $100.00 a month with less options than before... SERO Plan $34.85 a month, 500 min(s), wkend starting at 7PM, and unlimited text/picture/data... | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Blah Blah I agree... especially with this statement:
quote:
Even with low caps (5GB per month for both AT&T and Sprint) and high overages that would make higher consumption profitable, tethering terrifies carriers.
Carriers don't want tethering for at least 2 reasons:
1. They probably couldn't support the consumption if a large number of consumers migrated from fixed services (ADSL/Cable) to tethered.
2. They (AT&T anyways) would be chewing off their own ADSL/VDSL services
3. They'd rather sell an aircard + service contract (2 year on data) then adding / removing an optional service.
Of course, where there's profit to be made, these mega corps don't just want profit... they want maximum profit.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Blah Blah There is also the fact that 3g is a 3-5mbit shared ethernet connection, and simply a novelty, than a network access method. Imagine running 10s or 100s simultaneously using data on a 802.11b AP. Remember 2G voice runs at less then 14kbps, usually 6 or 9kbps. Imagine all those uses suddenly using landline quality voice at 64kbps, 5x times more bandwidth for each user. 3g was bragging rights from day one. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Blah Blah I agree - there is a limited amount of sprectrum, and it is shared between voice and data.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | 
Tarheels Fan
Premium
join:2006-01-05
·Embarq
| Yep, SERO is the best deal out there if you have it. A guy at work dropped his SERO plan for the PRE. I told him he was nuts. He has to pay $200 for the phone and and add'l $70/mo to keep it. (He went from $30/mo to the unlimited $100/mo) He says well now I don't have to worry about going over, (which he was doing on a regular basis by about 100 min!) Oh well, you can't fix stupid... | |
| | | 
Telco_Tech
join:2009-05-18
Toledo, OH
1 edit | Re: Blah Blah That's what I did too, except I purchased the Pre on an additional Simply Data plan. I did it that way so I could test out the Pre and decide whether or not it was worth giving up my SERO plan. In the end, I didn't feel it was worth it so I took the phone back and canceled the Simply Data account. I wrote a little about my experience on my website if you want to take a gander:
»tatethatcher.com
All in all, a great phone but not worth losing SERO over.
- Tate
EDIT: Grammar / spelling
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IP is the future... down with TDM! | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | Boost has a 50/month unlimited plan. Not many phones though. | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | Re: Blah Blah Still a deal | |
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BodyBumper
join:2004-06-21
Beverly Hills, CA
| said by flycuban  :SERO Plan $34.85 a month, 500 min(s), wkend starting at 7PM, and unlimited text/picture/data... The SERO plan ended a year ago. The Everything Plus plan is $59.99 for 500 mins now.
»delivery.sprint.com/m/p/sprint/e···ding.asp
Email: Russ.S.McGuire@Sprint.com
Employee ID: 383 | |
| | | 
Frank
is chilling
Premium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Blah Blah said by BodyBumper :said by flycuban :SERO Plan $34.85 a month, 500 min(s), wkend starting at 7PM, and unlimited text/picture/data... The SERO plan ended a year ago. The Everything Plus plan is $59.99 for 500 mins now. » delivery.sprint.com/m/p/sprint/e···ding.aspEmail: Russ.S.McGuire@Sprint.com Employee ID: 383 it ended for new subscriptions but not for the people who still have it 
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At first I thought everyone on the highway was drunk but then I realized I was driving in Florida  | |
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Telco_Tech
join:2009-05-18
Toledo, OH
| Re: Blah Blah Yep, my SERO contract is up in September. I'll probably either buy a new phone and lock in another two years or just go month to month.
Hands down, SERO is the best deal out there.
- Tate
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IP is the future... down with TDM! | |
| 
chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Albany, NY
| From Sprint... Sprint's caps only applies to AirCards.
The pre's SDK is not released yet, but there will be a tethering application out soon. It will be through all three connection, BT, wifi and mini-USB. Sprint has no caps using phone as a modem. My centro was tethered all the time for torrents on the road.
This also official from Sprint HQ.
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This is not the greatest post in the world, no, this is just a tribute!
Слесарь-гинеколог | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: From Sprint... Currently, for caps, At&t's only refer to datacards as well.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | 
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by chlen :Sprint's caps only applies to AirCards. The pre's SDK is not released yet, but there will be a tethering application out soon. It will be through all three connection, BT, wifi and mini-USB. Sprint has no caps using phone as a modem. My centro was tethered all the time for torrents on the road. This also official from Sprint HQ.
For Sprint's plans, their T's&C's would seem to indicate otherwise.
"Data Usage Limitation (Mobile Broadband Cards, USB Modems, Embedded Modems and Phone-As-Modem): The amount of data transmitted over our network is measured in kilobytes (KB), megabytes (MB) or gigabytes (GB). Sprint reserves the right to limit throughput speeds or amount of data transferred; and to deny, terminate, modify, disconnect or suspend service if usage either exceeds (a.) 5GB/month in total, unless specified otherwise or (b.) 300MB/month while off-network roaming. 1024KB equal 1MB. 1024MB equal 1GB."
Is the monthly limit total "specified otherwise" for your Centro? There wasn't any special clause that I could find with my phone. | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: From Sprint... I think he was referring to that Sprint doesn't enforce the 5GB cap, like AT&T, on PDA/handset/non-tethering plans. | |
| | 
avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
| said by chlen :Sprint's caps only applies to AirCards. The pre's SDK is not released yet, but there will be a tethering application out soon. It will be through all three connection, BT, wifi and mini-USB. Sprint has no caps using phone as a modem. My centro was tethered all the time for torrents on the road. This also official from Sprint HQ. My LG Rumor, 2g phont is capped at 5 gigs/mo. Although I would have to be downloading all month to hit that cap.
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Team JON. | |
| 
mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | Hmmm.... Does that mean tethering talk is Pre-mature... or simply Pre-immature? (because, obviously, those "No-no!" waggling fingers will stop people from talking) | |
| 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Sprint Pre Club... I thought the first rule of Sprint Pre Club is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPRINT PRE CLUB...
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
| Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Hardly news Ir's hardly news with all the previous news of carriers altering their TOS ro exclude any remote possibility of apps that actually use bandwidth. I really wish this did surprise me. Sprint has been more lax than some(like AT&T, VZW), but the carriers do seem to follow each other in movements to degrade service. Anyone else remember when caps really didn't exist? Almost universal now. Sad, really sad.
btw, Karl, I like the Fight Club reference in the title =) | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| The Pre came.. and went.. For me, this really is a non issue anyway as I already have the Sprint Card.. The Simply everything with data card is $135 for me so it was a good deal the way I see it becuase I can talk and be on the web anyway..
HOWEVER.. after getting the Pre, using it for under 24 hours, I already reactivated the Moto 9QC and boxed the Pre back up to be returned.
There are MANY things that I don't like about the phone at this time and it's not worth the $300 (before $100 rebate) ...
- Can't forward a TXT message
- Battery life is OKAY but the 9Q has me spoiled
- The keyboard is a bit small
- You can't change any of the system tones like the TXT, new mail, et. nor will it vibrate on those so I've already missed a ton of txts..
-Be careful what you tap on the screen on contacts, becuase when you hit the item to call, ... you call.. I was playing with the phone at midnight, tapped on a contact to see what it was going to do from a screen I hadn't been on, it moved to the dial pad, the screen went blank and placed the call. I pressed the wake up button, etc. to get the screen back to end the call but it was too late. (I didn't like that one bit!)
- You can't sync the phone in an easy way.. Gmail so far was the best. 3rd party software works. Their data migration tool was incredibly weak and their instructions are minimal.
- Because of the size, it's hard to hold with out hitting the gesture spot while watching video.. many times just trying to hold it I've ended a video.
- Same on Music... hold the phone wrong and you start a song over. At least with the iTouch/Phone, you have to hit certain parts of the screen the tap is ignored.. not on the Pre.. there is also a very meager control set for controlling.. such as no progress bar.. you simply tap and hold the arrows to move forward or back.. compared to the iTouch/Pod, when in landscape, you can flick through the album covers to find something and not interrupt the song.. in the Pre, you change to what ever song is on the screen.
- There are other things I wasn't too pleased about with the phone too.. little things that I'm sure will be fixed on future software releases, but not about to wait and see what/if they come up with anything... For the price, the thing should drive my car for me too.
There are MANY good things I do like about the Pre, too, so don't get me wrong.. however, I have to say, after owning an iTouch and using iPhones before, while Pre has a great concept, it's not really ready for prime time just yet..
As for tethering, the rep I use at the corporate store in Maple Grove DID discuss the tethering with me.. So, let them have their control on the website if they want.. either way, to this user, it doesn't matter.. 2 of the 3 Pres that were purchased are on the way back to the store today already... technically 1 day after being purchased.. and I had high hopes for the phone.
At least the next iPhone comes out this Friday and I'm replacing my Black Berry with that. (And no, I'm SO not an apple fan boy) | |
| |
Telco_Tech
join:2009-05-18
Toledo, OH | Re: The Pre came.. and went.. Your experience with the Pre closely resembles mine (including returning it).
- Tate
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IP is the future... down with TDM! | |
| | | xenophon
join:2007-09-17 | Re: The Pre came.. and went.. Love my Pre. Took a week to get used to it though. The things I miss are far outweighed by the new things I can do.
How long did you give it before returning? | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: The Pre came.. and went.. Returned it the next day.. so about a full 24 hours in my hands.
Here's the thing.. I won't get used to it though. I can't miss text messages as they're important. I can barely hear them and the lack of vibrate is a MAJOR, um.. "c'mon Palm!" if you ask me.
The music and video players, honestly, I could do with out all together, but they are annoying and I COULD get used to those. They Keyboard, same thing.. can get used to it, still think it's a poor design. Even apple learned that people wanted landscape keyboard input. I'm SURE there will be a virtual keyboard, maybe..? the device could have been a little larger, but again.. not a real issue.
BUT it IS a MISERABLE failure that you can't select sounds you can actually hear or have the vibrate on texts. If I can't hear 'em, I want to feel em at least and for anyone that is in a noisy environment that's important. The MAIN reason why phones let you customize rings and sounds years ago was so you can distinguish yours from others, or to identify the event or caller by a unique sound.
The lack of some of the basics is what was a real turn off.. the reason it went back was mainly becuase of the "you never know what the future releases hold" comments you're told. I don't want to get stuck in a $300 phone, 2 year contract with an expensive upgrade if they play the same game as apple where they release what should be considered fixes as new phones. So, they can keep it, for now, and I'll remain a non-contract customer until they get it right.
Like I said, it's a good phone, good concept.. but there are some things that just really turned me off.. | |
| | | | | xenophon
join:2007-09-17
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: The Pre came.. and went.. Yeah, it's missing some obvious basics. I can't imagine going back to my old phone though. I'll wait for the upgrades and new apps to take care of those things. The 1.0 release is not for everyone though, that's for sure.
For power users into Linux, this is a decent hack friendly device as is Android. WebOS much more mature than Android though.
Web browser more stable than iPhone - no crashing. | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: The Pre came.. and went.. I can agree with you on your points.. however, there's one part that's still to think about... the price. You're locked into the phone, contract, etc. ... and there's no telling what or how Palm will give attention to this phone.. So, the money/price AND the conditions that go with it also bother me.
I've always early adopted many things.. televisions, internet services, cell phones, you name it.. in this day and age, combining all the gripes, etc. I don't figure it ready yet for all that comes with it.. and, yes, it's hackable, but when you buy a phone this expensive, you shouldn't have to hack anything. | |
| | | | | | | xenophon
join:2007-09-17
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: The Pre came.. and went.. Take another look in 6 months. Apps will mature, the OS will mature and if you know anything about linux/unix, it is the new jesusphone...
Tethering from laptop via Bluetooth 2.1...
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| | | | | | | 
FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| I had a feeling this was the case, just after looking at the specs. Dual band, 5 hours of maximum total talk time etc etc... Reading these reviews simply re-enforces thoughts i had before, and i've yet to set eyes on the real thing in person. To me sprint has always been about gimmicky phones for people not too serious about the service (network availability etc). My ideal phone, if it couldn't be the iPhone, would be either a new razr V3, or a Tundra (both moto). On the att network.
On a side note, i wish 850 mhz was a priority too, since it allows good connectivity indoors. When you have 4-5 bars indoors (in a place without transponders like a phone/att store), you're most likely connected with 850 mhz.
- A
--
LETS GO METS! | |
| | 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Yea I took a look at it the other day....don't think so. And to be honest I am kinda disappointed about that.
I love the idea of the platform, the OS & such and what it offers. I am at the point of looking for a new phone (755p right now) so the Pre was an option. WAS.
I really DO NOT want to move to AT&T, and that covers the other two devices I would consider: BB Bold and iPhone. I am told the Bold will show up in some form on Sprint "soon" so we'll see.
I have the USB data card, and honestly with travel it's paid for itself a few times over at this point. I got the unit itself for a song, and at $60 a mo on the data plan if I am in a hotel room just a few nights a month it's paid for (assuming I am not at a free internets hotel).
Ok back to the OP....The tethering gag order is pretty pathetic. What's Palm going to do? It isn't their network. Legal action IMHO on Palm's part if the device supports it is a no-go. If the phone already has the function then you aren't violating anything. For Sprint it's another deal if there are clauses in the ToS against it.
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TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
| 
Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Sprint would be dumb to try and take action All it would do is piss people off. Anyone hell bent on tethering is going to find a way to do it whether Palm/Sprint goes after their 8 fans or not.
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POKE 65495,1 | |
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Telco_Tech
join:2009-05-18
Toledo, OH
| Talk about a data hungry phone! I had the Pre for a couple days (I ended up returning it) but in just 48 hours I burned through 150 MB of data using Sprint's EVDO. That really shocked me because much of the time I used the phone I was at home on my WiFi router, so I can see why carriers would be scared about overloading their networks...
Oh, and to put things in perspective, my normal EVDO usage is less than 50 MB a month (unless I tether).
- Tate
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IP is the future... down with TDM! | |
| | 
Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | Re: Talk about a data hungry phone! Wow. I'm still not seeing a reason to upgrade from my Samsung ACE.
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Go fishing in southwest Florida.
»www.viciousstrikes.com | |
| sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| SERO The fact that this plan exists, and used to cost half as much as it does now, speaks volumes about the problem with the wireless broadband market. Collusion among the four carriers is so obvious it just screams out at every passerby. The same plans, the same prices, the same data caps... how can LCD makers, Intel, Microsoft, etc. *all* be fined by the EU and other organizations for collusion, but in the US any corrupt cartel of organizations can get away with anything? Wonderful country this is. | |
| beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
| Collusion Implies the companies are working together to keep the prices high....I'd like to see your evidence of that.
The logical explanation of all of the similar pricing/plans/etc. is that getting in a price war is a loser for all companies involved. The minute a carrier engages in that (ie sprint) the other companies have to respond...then no company gained anything. All that would happen is the companies would make less money and gain no new customers.
Think of your local gas station that has a competitor next door. If station A lowers his price $.10 then stations B responds. The net result is both stations lose $.10/gallon in revenue and margin. This is smart business, not collusion. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Theory of Oligopoly While this study about the New Brunswick gasoline industry is over a decade old, it fundamentally pertains to most oligopolies, of which both our own gasoline industry and our wireless service options would be included.
»findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_h···ent;col1
"This study develops a model that explains how a cooperative solution can be sustained in an oligopolistic industry, (namely New Brunswick's gasoline industry) despite the inherently noncooperative strategies of the players, who are resolved to maximizing their individual (rather than joint) profits."
Excerpts from the conclusion....
"There is a tendency toward cooperative market behaviour among oligopolist competitors because each has foresight, and correctly expects rivals to have similar foresight of its own strategic moves. Oligopoly firms are therefore less likely to adopt aggressive strategies that thereby lead to accelerated competition that might jeopardize chances of higher profits. However, if firms believe that rivals are less than perfectly rational (and such a belief turns out to be right), then they may resort to aggressive postures that result in noncooperative strategies and quasi-competitive outcomes of the usual Cournot solution.
Applied to the gasoline industry in New Brunswick, it is seen that the model adequately reflects the pattern of price setting and rival interactions among the oligopolist firms that are involved in the industry: each firm adopting a strategy that results in a cooperative solution in an otherwise inherently noncooperative game setting. The empirical analysis seems to bear evidence of a general tendency for price fixing at best, and outright tacit collusion at worse."
Our own government appears to be hopelessly rooted in the conglomerate garden. At this point, I believe the Federal Trade Commission is useless and completely under the control of the world's largest corporations operating within our borders. Unless a company becomes careless and politically polarized, there is no reason to believe that we will not continue to see similar trends in all major industries, if they don't already exist. | |
| | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Theory of Oligopoly Nice article, and my point to a degree. What is the solution? I just can't see any business that would be in a hurry to slash prices only to watch their competitors do the same...with no gain to either. Why would they?? | |
| | 
HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| Re: Collusion said by beaups :Implies the companies are working together to keep the prices high....I'd like to see your evidence of that. The logical explanation of all of the similar pricing/plans/etc. is that getting in a price war is a loser for all companies involved. The minute a carrier engages in that (ie sprint) the other companies have to respond...then no company gained anything. All that would happen is the companies would make less money and gain no new customers. Think of your local gas station that has a competitor next door. If station A lowers his price $.10 then stations B responds. The net result is both stations lose $.10/gallon in revenue and margin. This is smart business, not collusion. Cricket and Boost, and Boost ironically is owned by Sprint. Prices in America are a complete sham compared to just about anywhere else, T-Mobile is nice little example, who offer prices about a 1/4 of US cost in their home court of Germany. It is price fixing, just as mentioned above. "The fact that this plan exists, and used to cost half as much as it does now, speaks volumes about the problem with the wireless broadband market. Collusion among the four carriers is so obvious it just screams out at every passerby." One only needs to look back to what happened to Ma Bell and see, this is in no way different, you just have 4 carriers instead of 1 that are national. "Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors to sell the same product or service at the same price." I think that pretty much sums it all up, if Sprint had 1/2 a brain they would bring back unlimited data plans, but ultimately they decided to join the cap bandwagon.
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Capturing the images of Colorado
»jdebordphoto.com | |
| 
joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
·AT&T U-Verse
| What is palm going to do about it? No, seriously? Why should this independent website care that Sprint might get whiny with Palm? There have been discussions for years on HowardForums on how to tether your phone and not get charged for having the "correct" data plan for years. Sprint very well could have pulled a Verizon and locked the hell out of their phones, but obviously they haven't.
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PRescott7-2097 | |
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