 
orion940
A PITA for over 50 years
Premium
join:2001-12-23
Windsor, CT | BS All this wiretapping stuff is not good. This item comes at a bad time, just after the Bush fiasco over the weekend.
O.
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Coming soon, new avitar | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
 ·Comcast
edit:
December 19th, @02:00PM
| They're just going to delay the inevitable Unfortunately the FCC will get their way. This rule will probably get thrown out since the FCC is overstepping their authority, but congress will take up the issue and mandate this anyway. Unfortunately, as far as things like privacy and civil liberties go, things will undoubtedly get worse before they get better. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | F. C. C Federal Corruption Commission. | |
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 | Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | Hm Are we really all that worse than China? Although they do have a much more violent history of dealing with dissidents, the steps we are taking today in our legislative bodies are taking us where exactly? | |
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| | BrotherJPW
join:2003-11-27
Glen Ellyn, IL
edit:
December 19th, @11:58PM
| Re: Hm Is there a way to stop the FCC.
Does anyone have any viruses?
FCC - Federal Corruption Commission.
That is exactly what it is.
4th Amendment VIOLATED
More, Higher TAXES AHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhha
How complex do you want our government to be. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| said by Alphy  :Are we really all that worse than China? Although they do have a much more violent history of dealing with dissidents, the steps we are taking today in our legislative bodies are taking us where exactly? Umm, I'm not sure about that history... | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Hm In the Free US we have civil rights.
In Communist China you have no rights.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_···_of_1989
Why do you think the US tries to push civil rights down their throat.
We don't run over our citizens with tanks for peaceful protests.
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Who do you want to pay off today? | |
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schmol
join:2001-12-26
Windsor, PA
| Re: Hm said by packetscan :In the Free US we have civil rights. In Communist China you have no rights. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_···_of_1989Why do you think the US tries to push civil rights down their throat. We don't run over our citizens with tanks for peaceful protests. Give it time...give it time. | |
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BoyareYOUclueless
| Time to get a clue... Universities have plenty of money to piss away on stick & ball sports and other unnecessary crap. Complying with law ain't an "option" so they might as well get off their azzes and comply or pay stiff fines, and then comply - as it should be.
And for the gullible sheep without a clue, being led by the media hype, "spying" has been going on since the beginning of time and it will continue to go on because there is a legitimate need for same. If you ain't got nothing to hide then spying shouldn't bother you. And if you do have something to hide you're gonna be found out sooner than later, so get over it.
Here's a hint for ya... Do you think the U.S. is the only one spying on citizens in the U.S. ???
Like DUH - Get a friggin CLUE people !!! | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL | Re: Time to get a clue... Wow. Some of these responses really do prove that people get the government they deserve. | |
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malinois
Premium
join:2003-01-09
Petersburg, PA
clubs: | “Those who would trade safety for freedom deserve neither.”
- Thomas Jefferson
“Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for temporal safety deserve neither to be safe or free.”
- Benjamin Franklin | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| Re: Time to get a clue... said by malinois :“Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for temporal safety deserve neither to be safe or free.” - Benjamin Franklin This is waaay off topic, but interestingly that misquotation of Franklin appears a lot on the Internet. I don't know how the quotation ended up getting changed to this, especially since "temporal" doesn't make sense in context. "Temporal" means "related to time," not "temporary." Anyway, Bartlett's Quotations accurately quotes Franklin as saying,
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. It may have been changed to be more emphatic, since Franklin is criticizing those who give up "essential" liberty (as opposed to any libertal at all) for "a little temporary safety" as opposed to, say, a lot of assured safety.
Nonetheless, in its original form the statement still condemns much of the sacrificies in liberty we've made in this country as history has proven over and over that they haven't made us any safer. | |
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malinois
Premium
join:2003-01-09
Petersburg, PA
clubs:
edit:
December 19th, @10:23PM
| Re: Time to get a clue... I apologize for the off topic misquote with a typographical error. I would like point out that the excellent reference you used indicates that the quote you sited was in fact an altered version of the original. The original according to Suzy Platt's "Respectfully Quoted", "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Your summation was my point. Thanks again for the correction.:) | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
edit:
December 23rd, @02:18AM
| Re: Time to get a clue... Geez, offended? Firstly, when I said "wayy off topic" I was talking about my own post, not yours. My post wasn't a criticism of your point at all, but a discussion of the various forms of this quote you always see floating around. That's why it was off topic. Hi.
Now, to get into the finer details: Although I don't see anywhere in the Bartlett's where it says their version of the quote (the one I used) is "altered" (seriously, where did you see that?), I happily concede that their version may not be the only one attributed to him. The version you mention from Platt is also a version you frequently see. Nonetheless, it has the same general meaning as Bartlett's version.
The version of interest (mentioning "temporal safety") makes little sense. That's why it was interesting to me since it's repeated in that form a good deal on the web.
But, since you thanked me: you're welcome. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by BoyareYOUclueless :
Here's a hint for ya... Do you think the U.S. is the only one spying on citizens in the U.S. ??? The Chinese government doesn't have the legal authority to make my life difficult based on their spying. In fact, doing so could compromise their ability to spy. Therefore, they'd be reticent to do so. The same thing can't be said of some bureaucrat with an NSL or similar instrument.
At any rate, what kind of idiot would want any pig with a chip on his shoulder being able to casually peruse your personal information without having to worry that it was going to cost said pig his/her job?
And, lest the knee-jerk johnny law supporters go bonkers, "pigs" refers strictly to law enforcement authorities and bureaucrats that are poking into my life without probable cause.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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| lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada
·Acanac Inc.
| said by BoyareYOUclueless :
Universities have plenty of money to piss away on stick & ball sports and other unnecessary crap. Complying with law ain't an "option" so they might as well get off their azzes and comply or pay stiff fines, and then comply - as it should be.
And for the gullible sheep without a clue, being led by the media hype, "spying" has been going on since the beginning of time and it will continue to go on because there is a legitimate need for same. If you ain't got nothing to hide then spying shouldn't bother you. And if you do have something to hide you're gonna be found out sooner than later, so get over it.
Here's a hint for ya... Do you think the U.S. is the only one spying on citizens in the U.S. ???
Like DUH - Get a friggin CLUE people !!!
Imagine if Yale or Havard decides to close their doors due to this.
I'm not quite sure that the government would allow the Ivy League schools to close.
By the philosophy, you don't mind if people film you 24/7 and put U on public television for everyone to view. From your birth, to you making-love, and until the day you die.
BTW. the Most ignorant comment ever.
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What I used to be I no longer am... God, why can't you freeze time for my sake? | |
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asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| But I'll bet you're someone who cries foul every time the government sticks its nose into business activity, aren't you?
I thought the government wasn't supposed to force technical requirements on networks. Shouldn't we let the glorious and infallible market decide the proper balance between safety, cost, freedom rather than having these decisions made by a handful of people in government who claim to know better?
I thought people could do whatever the hell they wanted to do with THEIR wires. | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| said by BoyareYOUclueless :
And for the gullible sheep without a clue, being led by the media hype, "spying" has been going on since the beginning of time and it will continue to go on because there is a legitimate need for same. If you ain't got nothing to hide then spying shouldn't bother you. Oh really? So just because you have nothing to hide means that the president can break laws and violate the constitution he swore to uphold, defend and protect? Intresting. Why bother having a constitution, then? And what happens when mistakes are made? They happen, you know. Remember Iraq's WMD?
quote:
Here's a hint for ya... Do you think the U.S. is the only one spying on citizens in the U.S. ???
No, the KGB, Pol Pot and the Gestapo were pretty into it also, I hear. The difference here is there is a legal mechanism that allows the president obtain a warrant very easily to conduct whatever spying he thinks is necessary. He can even spy for 72 hours before getting the warrant. It's called judicial review, and it's necessary for a democracy to function. Get a clue.
quote:
Like DUH - Get a friggin CLUE people !!!
I suggest you pick up any good civics 101 textbook and start at the introduction.
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What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?? | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | cant the feds allready sopena the ISP records and emails?
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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kba4
join:2001-10-23
Akron, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| the final days of the free net are upon us the net was one of the last places an individual could go for free thought and expression. a place where dissent was overwhelming if you chose to look for it or even publish your own. those days could be coming to an end now. does anyone care? i say f**k the administration! i wish they'd all get (i better not say for fear of being detained and shipped offshore for imprisonment)!!
what is this country coming to? this is bigger than a simple re-wiring of the net. it's about our personal freedom!! there is no enemy abroad, it lives in our own country, localized in DC and spread throughout in the form of the blind followers who shamelessly re-elected them.
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illegal wars, prisoners with no trials, and state controlled media. welcome to the land of the free! | |
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| joshpo
join:2002-09-24
Philadelphia, PA | Re: Bash Bush if you like but.... Right, says newsmax... 
Fox News wannabees. | |
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| kingdomware
join:2000-09-23
Waldorf, MD | No, its Fuex News wannabee!  | |
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| | jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND | Re: Bash Bush if you like but.... thats Faux News | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Idiots. Echelon was an entirely different thing (though just as sinister). | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
| Re: Bash Bush if you like but.... said by kamm :Idiots. Echelon was an entirely different thing (though just as sinister). Yup, you're correct. The Clintoncrats were spying on us before 9/11.  | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
edit:
December 19th, @10:56PM
| Re: Bash Bush if you like but.... said by ib50MbSoon :said by kamm :Idiots. Echelon was an entirely different thing (though just as sinister). Yup, you're correct. The Clintoncrats were spying on us before 9/11. So what? Are you excusing bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior? The law is not partisan. You either break it or you don't. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Bash Bush if you like but.... said by pianotech :... The law is not partisan. You either break it or you don't. Uh, not really. If you are the chief executive of any large organization, you are sued for sexual harrassment by a former subordinate, and you lie under oath about your history of sexual escapades with other subordinates, you are prosecuted for felony perjury and you go to jail.
Unless you are Bill Clinton and then you agree not to practice law for 5 years while you're too busy making millions from speeches, anyway.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| Of course
All you emotionally driven whiners might ask yourselves why it is, if the government is so draconian, that you can say whatever the hell you want about it, or, anything else, for that matter, on this forum that is available WORLD WIDE, that THEY CREATED then GAVE TO YOU TO USE?
Governments that oppress their people dont allow unfettered communications amongst their people, let alone the rest of the world. Seriously, some of you really need to get a clue. | |
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| lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada | Re: Of course We just don't like being watched 24/7. | |
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plattypus1
join:2005-04-08
Riverside, CA
·Charter VOIP
·Charter Pipeline
| It's a trend... Nobody has said that our government TODAY is a fascist or police state. All we are simply stating is that, if we continue to allow such massive new powers without demanding significant responsibility to go along with them, we will eventually become one.
By the way, I have nothing to hide- but that doesn't mean I want to be watched. There's nothing wrong with what my wife and I do in the bedroom, but I'd prefer not to have it tracked, recorded and logged. Same with my web surfing. | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | OK Will there be any effective ways to avoid this?
Like encryption etc...
Someone needs to start working on that so after all this money is spent they can show Bush's govt they wasted their time and money (again)... | |
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Roop
join:2003-11-15
Ottawa, ON
edit:
December 19th, @08:54PM
| 1337 america, land of the somewhat free. | |
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| BrotherJPW
join:2003-11-27
Glen Ellyn, IL
| 4th Amendment Violated The 4th AMENDMENT is VIOLATED
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: 4th Amendment Violated Hmm. First question--is an international communication a person, house, paper, or effect? Which one?
Second question--were these interceptions unreasonable? Not all searches require warrants.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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buscamares
join:2004-04-24
Edmonton, AB
edit:
December 20th, @05:16AM
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buscamares
join:2004-04-24
Edmonton, AB
edit:
December 20th, @05:07AM
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Fighting the FCC's Broadband Wiretap Order
Difficulty of compliance being overplayed