FiOS Kills Copper (Or Does It?)Verizon clarifies treatment of POTS, old copper.... ( old news - 06:27PM Monday Jul 09 2007) tags: dsl · Fiber · competition · business · hardware · telco · networking · Verizon We've frequently discussed Verizon's treatment of copper when they install fiber-optic cable to a home. Over the weekend the Associated Press penned an article about how Verizon cuts copper connectivity to the home when installing FiOS, which "traps customers" and "hampers rivals." Except so far, there's no actual evidence of such. The piece explains how one Long Island, NY resident, Henry Powderly II, was upset that he wasn't given the option to retain his copper or POTS service. The only problem? Powderly wasn't actually upset at all, according to his blog.  We only remove copper if it is in the air, but if buried, we leave the copper in place. -Verizon's Eric Rabe |
Verizon's John 'CZ' Czwartacki emails us these two retorts to the AP story over at the Verizon policy blog, where the company clarifies its position on "retiring" copper infrastructure and blasts the AP story for being inaccurate. "We only remove copper if it is in the air, but if buried, we leave the copper in place," says Verizon's Eric Rabe. "Indeed in some places (Long Island) the policy now is to leave the copper drop from a pole too. If a customer asks, we'll leave the copper in place, and if a new resident wants or needs a copper service, we'll provide it without charge."CLECs have been concerned that Verizon would yank copper and then be uncooperative should a homeowner downgrade back to POTs or a new homeowner wanted DSL -- probably not an unreasonable assumption for those of you familiar with the CLEC/ILEC installation dynamic in the earlier days of DSL. However, a piece in Light Reading last week cited at least one CLEC that had no problem getting copper reconnected. As for customers, Rabe insists customers are informed several times during installation of what's happening and have multiple chances to intervene on poor old copper's behalf.
Related:- AT&T Realizing 25Mbps Not Enough
- Comcast: U-Verse Interfering With Our Network
- Wednesday Evening Links
- Friday Evening Links
- Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
- ISPs Shouldn't Pretend To Be Content Companies
- Wednesday Evening Links
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
|
 
johndoe303
join:2003-01-01
Boca Raton, FL | Out with the old and in with the new. The subject says it all. 
--
WRTSL54GS v2 + WRT54G v2 | |
|  | | | | 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
1 edit | Crap Journalism To learn about the laying sacks of crap our news services are one only has to look at the coverage of the war in Iraq. When is the last time you have heard about the roads, schools, hospitals, outpatient clinics, etc, that our troops in Iraq have built, or how the Iraqi people really think about al Ameriki tribe, the American Tribe. You instantly hear about so called civilian deaths at the hands of American soldiers. The press gloats over the deaths of American service men and women, but we never hear the fact terrorists in Iraq are being killed by the score, and you never hear about the utter evil of al Qaeda such as this;
"At first, he said, they [Al Qaeda] would only target Shia, but over time the new al Qaeda directed attacks against Sunni, and then anyone who thought differently. The official reported that on a couple of occasions in Baqubah, al Qaeda invited to lunch families they wanted to convert to their way of thinking. In each instance, the family had a boy, he said, who was about 11 years old. As LT David Wallach interpreted the man’s words, I saw Wallach go blank and silent. He stopped interpreting for a moment. I asked Wallach, “What did he say?” Wallach said that at these luncheons, the families were sat down to eat. And then their boy was brought in with his mouth stuffed. The boy had been baked. Al Qaeda served the boy to his family."
( »www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/baq···2007.htm )
If our press will slant the news from Iraq to make our Soldiers look like the NAZI SS, and Al Qaeda as freedom fighters what chance does any thing else have to be reported truthfully.
--
Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
| | | 
Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: Out with the old and in with the new. Who is the original reporter's name?
It would be good to keep the bastard under the bullshit list.
--
Duct tape, saving lives since 1942. | |
| | | | | | 
battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| What happens if a new home or business is built and they order service from a CLec? I don't think they refuse service in that case. I do believe that the CLec is charged a small Install fee for the drop.
Is there anything that says you can't order POTS from verizon and then switch to a Clec?
Wouldn't this be the same case if the copper drop is removed? | |
| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Out with the old and in with the new. said by battleop  :What happens if a new home or business is built and they order service from a CLec? I don't think they refuse service in that case. I do believe that the CLec is charged a small Install fee for the drop. Small? Maybe small for a large corporation, but prohibitively expensive for the typical homeowner. The CLEC can't afford to absorb the cost of a new dry loop installation, that might be several thousand dollars if Verizon so chooses, not for a single customer. They might be able to wire the whole subdivision more economically, but would require a minimum number of initial sign-ups for a minimum commitment that's long enough to amortize the capital outlay. In areas where state and local governments still grant Verizon eminent domain privileges as if it's still the old AT&T, the CLEC might have trouble finding a place where the air and/or ground rights aren't owned by someone else. And Verizon can make it too costly for the CLEC to terminate the copper bundle with ease.
Is there anything that says you can't order POTS from verizon and then switch to a Clec? Common sense. CLECs are totally dependent on a pre-existing copper plant owned by the ILEC in order to offer service. No copper plant, no service.
Wouldn't this be the same case if the copper drop is removed? Yes, it would. No copper plant, no service. That's why Verizon is tearing up its copper plant. | |
| | | |
battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: Out with the old and in with the new. I have a very hard time believing that any PUC in any state would allow Verizon to charge a few thousand dollars for a drop from the pole to the dmarc. | |
| | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Out with the old and in with the new. said by Harddrive :i [sic] couldnt [sic] have said it better. goodbye [sic] copper, let the light shine through via fiber. At least as long as you can afford to pay for it. With no monopoly regulation, Verizon can price you right out of the market if it wants to. If it's beyond your budget, tough luck. | |
| 
ShootToThril
Tell The Truth
Premium
join:2004-06-07
Sherman Oaks, CA
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits | For Crying out loud! If they deployed the super advanced FIOS network, couldn't they just let people pay for a 3mbps connection over that fios connection instead of thinking "Oh... we need copper for that". I mean this new technology from space can't be provisioned to lower speeds???... And for that matter, would phone service not work over FIOS, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't POTS used for phone service. | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: For Crying out loud! said by ShootToThril :If they deployed the super advanced FIOS network, couldn't they just let people pay for a 3mbps connection over that fios connection instead of thinking "Oh... we need copper for that". I mean this new technology from space can't be provisioned to lower speeds???... And for that matter, would phone service not work over FIOS. Can't do POTS over fibre, thats what this is all about. POTS which can also do lineshare DSL.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| | | pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA
1 edit | Re: For Crying out loud! said by dvd536 : Can't do POTS over fibre. Can't do LINE POWERED POTS over fibre. Not "can't do POTS." | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: For Crying out loud! said by pcnetworx1 :Can't do LINE POWERED POTS over fibre. Not "can't do POTS." Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. There's nothing "plain" or "old" about the equipment necessary to make any telephone work over fiber. And POTS does in fact include all of the necessary electrical power and signaling required for a POT to work with it. If an old western electric phone can't use it, it's not POTS. | |
| | | myokitis
join:2004-06-19
Alexandria, VA | Of Course VZ Does POTS over Fiber Get your facts straight before you post. VZ WANTS to sell their triple-play (voice/data/video) over fiber. And the voice is POTS. Yes, POTS. | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Of Course VZ Does POTS over Fiber Sorry, but your personal private definition of POTS is not the widely accepted definition. Playing with semantics doesn't alter the facts. | |
| | | 
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: For Crying out loud! Can't do POTS over fiber? Two words: get real. VZ does POTS over FiOS every day (the typical voice service they deploy over fiber is *not* BroadWing (their branded VoIP service) but actually a fiber-based POTS - copper inside the premises, but fiber starting at the NIM/NID). The current trend in *greenfield* developments is for FiOS preinstallation, where you *start* with fiber-based POTS (and the NIM/NID went in with the rest of the household pre-wiring). | |
| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| said by ShootToThril :If they deployed the super advanced FIOS network, couldn't they just let people pay for a 3mbps connection over that fios connection instead of thinking "Oh... we need copper for that". I mean this new technology from space can't be provisioned to lower speeds??? It's possible, but there are no regulations to compel Verizon to do this. In the interest of killing off all competition, Verizon will not do it willingly, so you're out of luck.
The original AT&T copper plant was built under monopoly regulation, with government assistance, and often using taxpayer money. That is what makes the copper plant so valuable today. Without it, the competition doesn't have a way in.
Your government(s) screwed you when they improperly gave Verizon the go-ahead to build a new copper plant (which is not subject to regulation) over the old rights-of-way granted to the old AT&T under eminent domain. This essentially gave Verizon an unfair advantage over all competition in continuing to grant them monopoly access to those rights-of-way to operate a new monopoly, but without any new laws to govern the new monopoly. And it's your fault, because you're responsible for electing the government(s).
Next time, you might want to lift a finger... | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| 80% as I recall? When my FIOS got put in... the techs originally said (2004) that when about 80% of a given "town" gets on FIOS they would be able to yank the copper down off the poles.. which would kind of dictate a "market success" circa 2004.. but who knows if that number changed.. Verizon has in the past made it quite clear that their intention (2004-2007) is for FIOS to be a ONE WAY TICKET to Fiber. When the light of day is shined upon the subject, they will use 80% as the fall back position and try to look as if they'll do whatever you want.. leave it, take it down, put it back etc..
However, YMMV (your mileage may vary) given the random Verizon tech assigned to the job, etc. It seems to PAY for VZ to NOT piss off customers in the Cablevision (primarily long island) footprint, as they do have another decent option. | |
| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: CLEC telephone service said by PhoenixDown :For arguments sake, what if you wanted to switch to a non-voip clec for local services - would you be able if the copper facilities were no longer in place? (ie: MCI, AT&T, etc) No. | |
| 
SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | ... I believe that Verizon has to pay for connection on the poles, which is probably why they want it off the poles. | |
| | 
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: ... said by SquareSlinky :I believe that Verizon has to pay for connection on the poles, which is probably why they want it off the poles. In Verizon's case, many of the poles are theirs and those that aren't belong to private electric utilities. I don't believe they will pay any less to the electric utility because they only have fiber hung from the pole instead of fiber and copper.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
|  Re: Pole Access
said by GOLFnSUN :In Verizon's case, many of the poles are theirs and those that aren't belong to private electric utilities. I don't believe they will pay any less to the electric utility because they only have fiber hung from the pole instead of fiber and copper. I wouldn't be so sure about that last part if I were you. When renting pole access, you're not just negotiating a flat rate for a right-of-way. There are real-world considerations that any smart landlord will take into account. Weight, and hence the wear and tear on the poles is one such consideration.
Fiber alone is obviously lighter than fiber and copper. It's also lighter compared to copper, at any given capacity. So any smart tenant is going to take this into account when re-negotiating a lease. | |
| | | 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Get rid of the copper and change the fiber rules The FCC should allow Verizon to remove the copper lines, however they must allow any home previously served by copper converted to fiber with copper removed to have access grated on the line to CLEC's.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
| |
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Get rid of the copper and change the fiber rules said by NOCMan :The FCC should allow Verizon to remove the copper lines, however they must allow any home previously served by copper converted to fiber with copper removed to have access grated on the line to CLEC's. Well that isn't the deal they got from Congress and the FCC to encourage them to build out fiber systems. The deal was that if they put fiber in they get to tell the CLECs to go to hell.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Get rid of the copper and change the fiber rules said by GOLFnSUN :Well that isn't the deal they got from Congress and the FCC to encourage them to build out fiber systems. The deal was that if they put fiber in they get to tell the CLECs to go to hell. Anyone who believes that deal to be permanent is going to have a rude awakening in a few years. Congress certainly is not going to like being responsible for kill thousands of smaller and better ISPs and for sticking consumers with less choice and an even less competitive marketplace. Once the fibre is up, they will open it up again (if they have the interests of their constituents in mind).
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| | | |
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Get rid of the copper and change the fiber rules said by bmn :Anyone who believes that deal to be permanent is going to have a rude awakening in a few years. Congress certainly is not going to like being responsible for kill thousands of smaller and better ISPs and for sticking consumers with less choice and an even less competitive marketplace. Once the fibre is up, they will open it up again (if they have the interests of their constituents in mind). I suspect the same congresscritters that ok'd the deal initially can be bought just as easily the next go around.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| said by bmn :Anyone who believes that deal to be permanent is going to have a rude awakening in a few years. Congress certainly is not going to like being responsible for kill thousands of smaller and better ISPs and for sticking consumers with less choice and an even less competitive marketplace. Once the fibre is up, they will open it up again (if they have the interests of their constituents in mind). I want to believe that it could rally be that simple. I really do. But I know from experience that an army of litigators can hold up reform until the point is moot. This country is going to have to lay in the bed that it made for a very long time to come.
OTOH there is a very important election coming up. One that will decide (or not) the new course that all of the Executive Branch agencies that have the power to reign in the new mega-Bell monopolies will take. I believe that for a nation with a GNP number that's a work of fiction, a huge trade deficit, massive debts (both public and private), and the burden of decades of unregulated corporate governance, that domestic business reform ought to be one of the top three campaign issues. | |
| eherot
join:2006-09-03
Cambridge, MA
| Yeah but...."Required??" I'm not under any delusions here about the usefulness of copper phone lines. I know that they're inferior to fiber in every measurable respect. I also agree that, all things being equal, fiber infrastructure should completely replace copper infrastructure.
What gets me here is that Verizon has made it a *requirement* of getting fiber installed. It seems to me that there is exactly one reason why they're interested in taking down the copper lines, and that's regulation. Verizon enjoys far more monopolistic ownership over the fiber than the copper, so it seems to me that it would be in their best interest to get rid of as much copper as possible, as quickly as possible.
Given that copper is currently the ONLY platform on which the government mandates that the little guys be allowed to compete, I'm extremely suspicious of any deliberate attempts to diminish its usefulness.
Of course the right thing to do here would be to make the same mandate for fiber optics and other next generation distribution systems, but until that happens I think Verizon needs to leave the copper alone. | |
| | 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah but...."Required??" "litte guys compete" ?
You're the reason there's still modems in pc's. And the whole competition argument is flying out the window with this sitting congress! | |
| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Yeah but...."Required??" said by S_engineer :You're the reason there's still modems in pc's. Those kind of ad hominem attacks serve nobody.
It's a losing argument to attack the person. The only people who you will impress are idiots; not a very notable achievement. And evading the issue just allows it to fester longer.
Not a good move. | |
| | | 
captnhook
join:2001-02-20
NY
| said by S_engineer :You're the reason there's still modems in pc's. And the whole competition argument is flying out the window with this sitting congress! No the market place is why there are still modems in pc's.
Simple economics dictate their continued use.
Let's say I just want to go on-line to check email.
My choices are $10-$15 dial up access or $50 cable/FiOS.
Not everyone has the cash to burn like yourself.
These people don't waste their money on a High Speed Internet connection just to check their email/spam.
 | |
| | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| said by eherot :(Copper phone lines are) inferior to fiber in every measurable respect. The cost of deployment is measurable. Copper's already-amortized zero-cost is clearly superior to that of fiber. Other factors, like the benefit to the consumer of capitalism (as in allowing competition) is more complex, but copper emerges on top there as well.
So how can you claim that copper is "inferior to fiber in every measurable respect", when clearly that is not the case? | |
| 
Ream0
@rr.com
| I have No FAITH ...In Verizon, or the AP shit News service! VeriZon is spending too much money for a handful of customers. They should file for chapter 11 now and get it over with! BTW,the funds from the dubious "long distance charge" are being funneled into FIOS. That shows they don't have the resources to upgrade their outdated telegraph system. | |
| | pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA | Re: I have No FAITH Source? | |
| 
ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | The AP making sh!t up? Say it ain't so 
quote:
Often a story is envisioned ahead of time, its direction, the endpoint, are set. And sometimes journalists mold quotes to fit the story, even if it completely nullifies the point the quoted was making.
Exactomundo. However major news outlets fabricating stories is noTHing new. | |
|
How I see it
@comcast.net
| For Starters... I don't see where the AP reporter and Powerderly's versions of the story disagree.
The reporter never said he was upset.
And, assuming he made the statement "I was never given an option"..one might reasonably assume if they're a reporter that that is a complaint of sorts.
In addition, Powderly admits that verizon never told him about the removal of the copper...and that he learned of it being an issue himself prior to the install.
And so? I'd say the reporter reported on what occurred..whether it had the spin powerderly wanted on it or not.
Personally, what I find rather surprising is Verizons position on this matter. One would have gotten the impression from all the BBR stories on this issue that Verizon was ripping out all the copper most if not all the time.
Clearly, according to Verizons spokespersons statement anyway, that isn't the case and they're trying to be as flexible as possible.
And finally, honestly I think for those who want to make a continued issue of this..really, it's time to get over it.
Verizon is spending 23 some odd billion dollars to improve their network to become truly state of the art.
Many BBR members constantly cry out for the latest in innovation and lord help any company that doesn't give it to them. And then, when they do that..we just get to read all these stories finding fault with what they're doing.
These are truly exciting and innovative times we're living in, and for a public company to spend that much of their shareholders money to do this when they COULD have tried to argue what AT&T does nonstop..that it's not necessary...really is something they should be praised for.
How many more BBR stories must we be subjected to about THIS issue, versus stories about how GREAT FIOS is?
It's time to talk a whole lot more about that..and a whole lot less about some old, tired..decades old copper that anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't want anyway.
Well, unless you're AT&T of course..and it's continuing to be at the heart of your very poorly designed flop of a next generation network. | |
| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: For Starters... Deborah..? | |
| | | dyao5
join:2005-09-01
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: Verizon cutting copper Sorry Ahrenl - that post defending my story wasn't written by me. I'm not afraid to show myself. I'm that AP reporter that you guys are dissing. You folks are entitled to your opinion. (I told Henry Powderly the same thing - he has a right to his opinion even though he never gave me a chance to explain my side of the story before going on his rant. That's the thing about blogs - he can write what he wants. As a reporter he can't do that without getting a comment from the other side. That said, I will never censor him.)
Are there any Verizon employees posting here? Because in past blogs in this forum, there were several people who were unhappy/surprised about copper being cut. I emailed several of them, including FIOS Troubl, who fought like the dickens to get his copper back. In my article, Bill Kelms even filed a complaint with the FCC. You can google his blog. He has devoted several pages to his complaint.
I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon told employees in the PR department to destroy my story through blogging. Doesn't it seem strange that a story that clearly helps the consumer by telling folks about Verizon's copper cutting policy is being destroyed in this forum?
Who does the story help? THe customer. Who does the story hurt? Verizon. It doesn't hurt the consumer at all. So how can consumers be upset about a story that tells them something they ought to know? Think about it.
Some of the arguments I read in this forum sound just like the Verizon complaint letter we received and that AP thoroughly checked out. I was asked about my notes, I forwarded copies of email to my bosses, and I was put through the grinder to prove that I in fact did not manipulate or change the story. I don't have much to gain by writing a story like this - I don't get paid more and it can only attract complaints from companies (which means headaches). I can choose to write only positive stories that tout a company's products. It's easier, really. Write something fun between 9 to 6, then go home.
As for the article itself, the whole point of it wasn't FIOS technology at all - it was about consumer marketing. Tell people what you're doing and give them a choice. That's it.
Bill Kelm even said that my article wasn't tough enough. No FIOS consumer I spoke to or contacted - including Henry Powderly and several AP reporters -was given a choice about cutting copper despite what the Verizon PR guy told me. And what we write about isn't even half of what we see out there, because we have to be fair and balanced (at least I try to be in spite of what you think).
One of the things left out of the article was that a Maryland consumer regulator is thinking about investigating Verizon's habit of cutting copper even before my story came out. She was concerned about consumer choice. As for Henry Powderly, who is a reporter himself, I called him back several times and asked him to comment on Verizon's statement that he should have been told 3 times that his copper was cut.
The upshot of all this is one day we might only have two choices for tv/internet/phone service - either from the phone or cable company. Who knows, we might see our bills hit the $200 or $300 mark a month one of these days? | |
| |
datguy3
@aol.com | the only copper they remove is the drops they leave the copper cable from pole to pole intact..
so whats the big deal? if you want a copper based service later on a tech has to come out and run a new drop..
Doesnt sound like this warrants a news story! | |
| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: the only copper they remove is the drops said by datguy3 :
they leave the copper cable from pole to pole intact..
so whats the big deal? if you want a copper based service later on a tech has to come out and run a new drop. The big deal is that they apparently are not leaving the copper on the pole. Even if they did, what Verizon might call "no longer maintained" could amount to sabotage. If Verizon severs the copper at several points, the cost to recondition the copper plant to operational status becomes cost prohibitive.
The fact of the matter is that the national copper PSTN plant was underwritten and funded with taxpayer dollars. Verizon does not own that copper free and clear. If they willfully damage that copper plant to discourage competition, they need to be held responsible for those actions under criminal, civil (common) and antitrust law. | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | I really hope... Users stop complaining and realize that copper is useless in comparison to fiber. | |
| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: I really hope... said by Rob A :Users stop complaining and realize that copper is useless in comparison to fiber. Given the choice between Revereware® copper-clad pots and pans, and a sheet of fiberglass for cooking a meal, I'd say that the fiber is the one that's useless. I'm also not holding my breath for loudspeakers with fiber voice coils (or hard drives, for that matter). | |
| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| axus Well obviously Verizon shouldn't be required to maintain their copper lines, but cutting it is a bit much. They wouldn't go through the trouble of cutting the line if there wasn't some financial motive.
All the reports I heard a year ago were that people who asked to not have their copper line were denied. Maybe Verizon will change their policy now that they are on the record saying that customers can keep it if they ask. | |
| nat_f
join:2005-02-07
Merrimack, NH
| Verizon in RI refused to keep copper in place Last year my brother (who lives in Coventry Rhode Island) asked me about FiOS, and if I thought he should have Verizon install it since they had just sent him the "we're wiring your neighborhood, do you want FiOS?" letter. I had been following the FiOS situation in New Hampshire (where I live) so I told him it was something I was eagerly awaiting and he should take Verizon up on their offer but he should also make sure they left the copper (on poles) to his house. Awhile later he told me how the install went and told me that despite his asking for the copper to remain both the Verizon person who scheduled the install and the Verizon crew on site insisted on removing the copper wiring to his house.
He went ahead with the install anyway, and is quite happy with the service, in fact he's now getting the FiOS TV service after deciding not to activate the cable TV line already run to his house when he moved in 5+ years ago. I do not know precisely how hard he pushed to have the copper remain in place to his house, but I do know he asked both at the time of scheduling and the actual install and was refused by Verizon.
So there are certainly some cases where Verizon has refused to leave the copper in place to the house.
-Nat | |
| | | davl
join:2006-01-28
Furlong, PA
| Re: Copper is for reminiscing about. You summed it up nicely JT and so did someone on slash dot (/.), I think, who likened this issue to the person who has just had indoor plumbing installed and was complaining that the installer was trucking his outhouse away. | |
| 
darbea
from the Dark Side
Premium
join:2007-07-15
Coatesville, PA
1 edit |  The copper plant is staying in place
VZ or any other "approved" contractor could be contracted to "make good" a copper line from the c.o. to the prem.
All fiber placed for the FIOS service is wholly owned by verizon, and no clec can lease lines. Fiber that was placed before FIOS will be treated like copper, and abandoned to public domain.
For many years, clecs got a free ride on the telco lines. They did not have to place any plant. You could compare it to someone going to the supermarket, demand space (free) to set up a deli, buy their deli items from the supermarket's deli at a very reduced rate, and sell their deli items to the public at a cheaper price. That is what happened to the telco industry. That is why they want out of the clec business by building their own private plant. If a clec wants to provide service, then they should adsorb all the costs of of providing that service. | |
|
mcgreen
@verizon.com
| verizon does cut the copper if you live in an existing neighborhood where VZ had installed FIOS, when you turnup the FIOS they disconnect the copper. I wasn't really happy about that because copper is always up during a power outage, the FIOS only lasts as long as the battery backup | |
|
BH
@verizon.net
| Verizon Fios and Copper I believe that Verizon is using unfair business practices to shut out the competition, in home telecommunication services. There is a lawsuit present, which if I am not part of the class, my landlord surely is. I called Verizon and inquired about DSL internet service in approx. the winter of 2005. I was not given information about DSL, I was told about Fios ( fiber optic internet) and how later Fios would provide television. I signed up and they came out and ran a box into the home. Since then we have had a couple of problems with billing, where the service was cut off 2xs. Each time I called and had it taken care of on the same day. Although 1x their fault and 1x mine, both times they issued new account numbers extending the contract and (at least 1x) increasing the fees. (Even though it was taken care of on the same day it was disconnected.) I had made up my mind that if it happened again I would look into DSL. Today (5/31/07) I decided to look into a special being offered by Cavalier, $79.99 for TV, Internet, and Telephone. I found out(and later verified with Verizon) that because they do something to the copper wire coming into the home when installing Fios, no other service provider can access the home with internet (such as DSL), and quite possibly TV and other landline phone services. I called Verizon and asked about their DSL services and was told at that time, that DSL cannot be put in the home once Fios is installed. Of course if I had been told this up front I would not have ordered Fios, as it not only limits my choices, but materially alters my landlords rental property. Verizon said that fiber optics will be the only thing available in the future, but it is unfair as they are the only ones that offer it now, and lower cost services cannot be obtained after installation. Verizon does now offer television over Fios at a higher rate than Cavalier. But since I cannot change my internet provider all package deals are lost. It is unclear if any choices, such as, telephone companies or landline non-cable digital television services are still available, as it is unclear if Verizon cut the existing copper wires or just altered them. It also explains why you get another account number after a short disruption. I transferred to Fios after many disruptions in cable. If I am dissatisfied with Verizon's service, where else am I going to go? Dial-up is out of the question. Oh, did I fail to mention that although I kept the same package with each disruption, the speed is a lot slower than when I signed in 2005. Another reason I thought DSL would be just fine. I think there is a problem with disclosure here. Also, Verizon should not be allowed to cut the existing copper wires (the new box is in a different location in the house, as I believe it is done to make sure you stay with them for services. And when offering this service they should make sure that the home owner knows or should know by way of tenant, that the property is going to be altered. For instance, now in rental listings it might have to say no DSL or Verizon services only. Also, I was not told they would put a sophisticated box in my home, but upon seeing it when I came home from work, after installation, I did not think it was a big deal, as I thought it increased the choices for services to the home, not limited them. Thank you, BH | |
| 
batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | Copper must die. Maybe not tomorrow but some day the copper will not be maintained. Does anyone think Verizon will spend millions to maintain copper when FIOS is up? | |
| | | |
|
|
·
·