 
gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | Cold At this rate they will be giving away 105% of stock dividend and close to 1.5b for the 3 states.
Is that even enough for rebranding and new billing systems?
Think of the poor Lobsters! | |
| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | America can't get everything it wants If you want competition you have to deal with the result. Companies go under and sell off their clients. Verizon needs the cash to compete. It happens. You got "competition". | |
|  | 
demaven
@logical.net
| Re: America can't get everything it wants The merger is a great idea, as long as you don't mind senior, competent employees replaced with convenience store drop outs. Who cares that you'll sit with your thumb in your ear for hours waiting for a customer rep? So what if it takes a few weeks to get your line fixed, it just a phone. And who cares that 911 and other emergency lines are on someone's to do board for weeks on end, we don't really need top quality phone service, do we? O yes, btw, just blindly believe them when they say proceeds will go into wireless communications. Out of the goodness of their corporate hearts they'll drop building projects in dense cities and suburbs to make one one hundreth the profit up there. It isn't all bad, bet there are some sweet job offers floating around the regulatory corridors about now, Democracy, best for of government money can buy, and yup, the voters always get what they deserve......... | |
|
Frank1
@rr.com | cwa ibew The unions will be forced to change with the times. Concessions by them will be needed or layoffs will happen. Vz needs the money for fios, and I can see NY being next. | |
| 
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | struggle under the debt load...like Charter
why would a company buy the "unprofitable" states that Verizon no longer wants? even with the sweetened pot, this is a bad idea. | |
| | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Re: struggle under the debt load...like Charter Actually not really. I used to work for a small oil company that bought "unprofitable" oil wells. They were unprofitable to the big companies who typically had a lot of overhead. A smaller company with less overhead made the wells profitable from the first day they were purchased. | |
| bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | The only remaining objections.... The only remaining objections then are those that are nothing but self-motivated -- nothing anyone is entitled to. | |
| pepperxn
join:2001-02-21 | states are they selling off the whole states? or just the unprofitable parts? I thought I read both before. So Verizon would then have 9 states plus some states where they have parts of the state. | |
| qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
 ·Brand X Internet
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME
·EarthLink
edit:
December 14th, @08:06PM
| These states aren't unprofitable, they just make LESS profit These states are profitable, they just make LESS profit then Verizon wants. Okay, sell them off Verizon. BUT the problem is that Verizon is REALLY greedy and wants to have THREE cakes and eat them ALL too-with the taxpayers and ratepayers paying for all three cakes.
See, Verizon looks at how many people per wire mile crossed and in these three states there's less then they claim justifies upgrading plant. BUT the old plant DOES need to be upgraded, as much of it is old and literally falling apart, and ignoring that is folly. Things wear out, and Verizon's plant in these states is old. Their attitude is why should we spend ten dollars there to get 30 dollars of return, when we can spend that ten dollars in a Boston suburb and get 100 dollars of return? Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE A REGULATED MONOPOLY, THAT'S WHY! As part of getting that monopoly, you AGREED to service the good areas with the bad, and now you want to unilaterally cancel that agreement.
Well guess what? YOU CAN'T!!! You should NOT be allowed to sell off your problem children at a HUGE profit to a poorly financed company that won't be FINANCIALLY ABLE to do the necessary upgrades!
But that's what you WANT, isn't it Verizon?. Because if Fairport does poorly, more people will dump them and go wireless. And, who's the biggest cellular operator in these states? Hmmm..let me think-VERIZON IS!!!
Live with it (GREEDY) Verizon and move on! | |
| | ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: These states aren't unprofitable, they just make LESS profit Verizon will make a contribution of $235.5 million to the working capital of the new company prior to the closing. That should get them off to a good start.. | |
| | | qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA | Got it... Just like Verizon got BILLIONS from the tazpayers and ratepayers in Pennsylvania almost a decade ago to build a statewide fiber network thay haven't even STARTED to build!
You people in PA should be the ones trusting verizon LEAST OF ALL!!! | |
| | |
publius
@comcast.net | Re: These states aren't unprofitable, they just make LESS profit that $235 million is only the suggestion that is being offered in Maine. It doesn't take into account what NH will ask for, as well as Vermont. If this goes through, it's going to cost Verizon hundreds of millions to sell off the three states | |
| | | |
dh
@wbf.com | Re: These states aren't unprofitable, they just make LESS profit don't be a liar...
..it won't "cost" them anything; the whole sale is a cash cow for Verizon in the end, between the proceeds, tax savings, and deferred maintenance that they skipping out on.. | |
| 
hawk82
join:2001-04-26
Oakland, ME
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| I just wish... that the CEO Of Fairpoint would quit sugarcoating this whole deal with the ads they have been plastering on the TV channels here. They make Fairpoint out like they are some type of superhero here to fix all of our broadband internet problems. I'm sorry but it just isn't reasonable to think that every podunk town here in Maine will have "state of the art" broadband dsl service. Nor will every Verizon Union worker be keeping their jobs and at their current payrate, nor will they increase current broadband penetration to 90% of their service customers (or whatever that insane figure was) in the next couple of years they keep claiming.
These ads are played almost as much as the presidential candidates ads are here. It's ridiculous to think how much money they are spending trying to warp the public into thinking they will be our saviors.
And what's up with DSL being state of the art? It's an old technology relying on old copper lines that consistently break down. Fiber optics really is the only way to do it. And unfortunately until it is made cheap, we'll have to deal with crappy dsl.
If the CEO of Fairpoint and Verizon would just be honest and say "yep, we're going to sell to Fairpoint, we aren't going to keep many of the of the current Verizon workers, we won't be making any huge increases of broadband rollouts, but provide you quality service" I might go with that. Instead they keep rolling out these lies.
Or how about Verizon sell off one state at a time, and let Fairpoint work out the bugs in the deal, become profitable over a longer period of time, and not taking off too big a bite that they can't swallow.
I was hoping that with the PUC advisory board would have made those recommendations stick, but I guess not.
/rant
--
hawk82[at]nailbat[dot]com
IT Consultant
Yes, I use pico... laugh all you want.... | |
| | xsiddalx
join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: I just wish... said by hawk82  :that the CEO Of Fairpoint would quit sugarcoating this whole deal with the ads they have been plastering on the TV channels here. They make Fairpoint out like they are some type of superhero here to fix all of our broadband internet problems. I'm sorry but it just isn't reasonable to think that every podunk town here in Maine will have "state of the art" broadband dsl service. Nor will every Verizon Union worker be keeping their jobs and at their current payrate, nor will they increase current broadband penetration to 90% of their service customers (or whatever that insane figure was) in the next couple of years they keep claiming. It happens. Before SBC bought out Ameritech, there was a carefully orchestrated (allegedly) reduction of employees at Ameritech. All service went to hell. Mergers must result in savings to make sense..employees will be cut for sure, especially union.
said by hawk82 :These ads are played almost as much as the presidential candidates ads are here. It's ridiculous to think how much money they are spending trying to warp the public into thinking they will be our saviors. Always a good indicator that they are selling something.
said by hawk82 :And what's up with DSL being state of the art? It's an old technology relying on old copper lines that consistently break down. Fiber optics really is the only way to do it. And unfortunately until it is made cheap, we'll have to deal with crappy dsl. Why is DSL crappy and fiber optics advanced? Most DSL is provided via fiber-fed terminals, not unlike cable internet.
How does copper "break down" as you say?
said by hawk82 :If the CEO of Fairpoint and Verizon would just be honest and say "yep, we're going to sell to Fairpoint, we aren't going to keep many of the of the current Verizon workers, we won't be making any huge increases of broadband rollouts, but provide you quality service" I might go with that. Instead they keep rolling out these lies. You'd be surprised...VZ's money is coming from the business and wholesale markets. Fairpoint's is the residential market. Different business models. DSL isn't exactly expensive if the customer takes a land line (regulatory construct).
said by hawk82 :Or how about Verizon sell off one state at a time, and let Fairpoint work out the bugs in the deal, become profitable over a longer period of time, and not taking off too big a bite that they can't swallow. Fairpoint, or any other wall street financed company, can swallow the purchase. What bugs are there to work out? Business as usual, upgrade terminals, and/or extend fiber and upgrade terminals...Why not argue Verizon should sell one exchange at a time? That would give any buyer lots of time of build real slowly..
said by hawk82 :I was hoping that with the PUC advisory board would have made those recommendations stick, but I guess not. /rant Unfortunately PUCs don't act on behalf of customers anymore than the FCC does. Just State versions of the FCC. | |
| | |
hawk82
join:2001-04-26
Oakland, ME
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: I just wish... said by xsiddalx :Why is DSL crappy and fiber optics advanced? Most DSL is provided via fiber-fed terminals, not unlike cable internet. How does copper "break down" as you say? Any water gets into the copper pair, it causes numerous issues. Crosstalk issues. Older, aging copper plant which had a lot of issues with just voice quality, let alone try to push DSL over those lines. Distance limitations.
Unless cheap line extenders and new copper plants are run, DSL is a stop gap measure to keep customers slightly happy until FTTH becomes cheaper to implement. Fiber is the way of the future. Just need to have the price come down on all of the related equipment.
Not like we'll see a big FTTH rollout by Fairpoint if this deal were to go through, when they invest a lot of money in "state of the art" DSL. Why not invest money in getting fiber run throughout the larger towns in Maine, and keep DSL for the smaller towns until it becomes more financially feasible to run FTTH there.
It's like throwing a small bandaid over a large wound. Doesn't make much sense to me to spend lots of money on an end of life technology. One can only do so much with copper. | |
| | | |
dh
@wbf.com
| Re: I just wish... In most of Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont there will never be FTTH unless it is done 100% or close to 100% at taxpayer expense.
In Maine, for example, there is a large concentration of people in 3-4 areas of the state, but the rest of the state doesn't have the population to support decent phone service, let alone fiber. It is not unusual to have a country road that is 10 miles long that has 4 houses on it, 2 on each side. And that's not "way out there", that's maybe 20-30 minutes from a population center.
People often forget that you can drive for 7 hours and STILL be in Maine.
For example:
»www.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&ge···z=7&om=1
If you head to the real hinter lands, you can drive from the NH border to the northern tip of Maine in just about 9 hrs.
»www.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&ge···=16&om=1
The truth is that NO COMPANY, not Verizon, not Fairpoint, not ANYONE is going to provide fiber services to the areas that Verizon is selling off. It. Will. Never. Happen. Would it be nice? Yes. But short of government mandates and funding, there won't be much hope for fiber to these areas of the states. | |
| xsiddalx
join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
| "Consumers" aware of FIOS? With all due respect, how many "consumers" are opposed to the deal because they thought they might get fiber to the home and verizon's FIOS service?
In my experience, most of us only want to see our bills to stay the same or decrease. The folks I know in VT and NH don't care about FIOS, but they do like faster internet access at the same price they are paying for up to 1.5 mbps (not that they'll do much more email and web surfing).
Hell, give me a solid 1.5 symmetrical for the price of my "Extreme" service and I'd be a happy camper. Add a burstable option for those few BIG downloads that need to be done and I'm even more happy!
Not sure how this is bad for the customers, but I think it works out ok for the stockholders and Verizon. Not so good for the taxpayers (less revenue into the US Treasury).
Both VZ and Fairpoint are public companies. The PUC will not allow either to go bankrupt and disturb that "so critical" POTS, or any incumbent telephone company for that matter.
No matter who VZ sells to, it is the PUCs responsibility to ensure that the company is viable via the regulatory rate setting process. | |
| sozekizer
join:2002-07-16
Fort Worth, TX
·Charter Pipeline
| Hawaii Telecom anyone? Some of the comments here have given me more cause to wonder whether this isn't similar to hawaii telecom's move a couple years back. Verizon supported HT customers for a few months but then all support for them ceased. This Fairpoint thing sounds too much like the same thing's happening. | |
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Fairpoint Deal Moves Forward