 amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
 ·EarthLink
| Not a good test ... ... when it's announced four months in advance. The results of the test won't be representative of the preparedness of the rest of the country because they won't have had the additional buzz about this topic which North Carolina will (as evidenced by this news item being picked up and distributed by others, like DSLR).
Mark | |
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 | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: Not a good test ... You mean like all of the commercials and articles discussing the Feb 09 cutoff date for everyone else? If anything, this is a bad test because everyone else will still have 5 months remaining to purchase their digital receivers. | |
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| | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| Re: Not a good test ... said by openbox9  :You mean like all of the commercials and articles discussing the Feb 09 cutoff date for everyone else? If anything, this is a bad test because everyone else will still have 5 months remaining to purchase their digital receivers. The stated purpose of the test is to gauge how many people are unaware of the Feb. transition, and extrapolate those results to the rest of the nation. I think that extrapolation will be flawed because NC news will be abuzz about the Sept. cut-off *test* even more than the rest of the nation will be about the Feb. cut-off.
Mark | |
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| | | systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace
·Embarq
| Re: Not a good test ... This isn't necessarily true.
Everyday viewers of OTA television may not know who to call when the stations go off the air.
It already has happened with the CW translator station WDCA50 out of Martinsburg, WV earlier this year, when they just turned the station off one day to test why Comcast was having problems receiving their digital channel.
First, since OTA is licensed by the FCC for the benefit of the community, how can Comcast get WDCA to shut-down a translator station that has no requirement to stop transmitting in Feb. of 2009.
Second, there was no notice of the shut-down and only those who know how to use the FCC website to get contact information to WDCA will complain (there were seven of us according to the broadcast engineer I talked to).
Third, the WDCA translator transmitter served many viewers up and down the I-81 corridor from VA to PA and now there is no CW service for most OTA viewers within this area now.
Fourth, I was told they would turn the transmitter back on in a couple of days and include a scroll across the screen asking those who were viewing the station to contact WDCA, which never happened because the transmitter has not been reactivated.
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Personal Theme Song:
RUSH - Mystic Rythms from Power Windows.
Rush Radio Website | |
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| BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
edit:
May 11th, @04:21PM
| said by amigo_boy :... when it's announced four months in advance. The results of the test won't be representative of the preparedness of the rest of the country because they won't have had the additional buzz about this topic which North Carolina will (as evidenced by this news item being picked up and distributed by others, like DSLR). Mark Please anyone that doesn't know about this now doesn't deserve to watch TV. Jeez I've known about this digital transition for about a dozen years now. | |
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| | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| Re: Not a good test ... said by BF69 :Please anyone that doesn't know about this now doesn't deserve to watch TV. Jeez I've known about this digital transition for about a dozen years now. Sheesh. I wasn't arguing for the test, or concern for those who don't know about the transition. Just saying that announcing the test (in a geographic location) four months in advance, and claiming this will be a gauge of the rest of the nation is flawed by the fact that it's going to be in local NC news for four months.
That will make the results inapplicable to the rest of the country who is getting only the normal buzz about Feb (which the govt. is apparently worried isn't enough).
It would have been better to have a nationwide "test" in September.
Mark | |
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| | | BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Not a good test ... said by amigo_boy :said by BF69 :Please anyone that doesn't know about this now doesn't deserve to watch TV. Jeez I've known about this digital transition for about a dozen years now. Sheesh. I wasn't arguing for the test, or concern for those who don't know about the transition. Just saying that announcing the test (in a geographic location) four months in advance, and claiming this will be a gauge of the rest of the nation is flawed by the fact that it's going to be in local NC news for four months. That will make the results inapplicable to the rest of the country who is getting only the normal buzz about Feb (which the govt. is apparently worried isn't enough). If people are so unaware they don't know about the transition they won't know about the test. Those that do know about the transition well who cares if they know? How will that mess up the test? what some peole might buy boxes or new TVs earlier? who cares that's actually a GOOD thing.
Fact is if this test was never announced no more than 10% of the population would have noticed anyways.
It would have been better to have a nationwide "test" in September. No it wouldn't. A smaller test makes it easier to figure out if there is any issues. | |
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JE
Can I Taste It? Mmmm
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Brooklyn, NY
| said by BF69 :said by amigo_boy :... when it's announced four months in advance. The results of the test won't be representative of the preparedness of the rest of the country because they won't have had the additional buzz about this topic which North Carolina will (as evidenced by this news item being picked up and distributed by others, like DSLR). Mark Please anyone that doesn't know about this now doesn't deserve to watch TV. Jeez I've known about this digital transition for about a dozen years now. THANK YOU!
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BLAZIN' FAST OOL @: 27.883/4.7233 Can Your ISP Go This FAST? VRoOoOoOoOm!
-- I Have: ZA Suite 6.0.631.003 | ICQ: 16705298 | YaHoo IM: Gemini365i | AOLIM: EdGei365i | FWD#: 452620 | VoIP#: Hmmm... |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Utica, MI | Nationwide And how is this test going to show that people in Idaho or North Dakota will know about it? The FCC should be doing a nationwide test. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: Nationwide Because most have already gotten Satellite, or really do not care. Even those with Government Aid checks have CATV or Satellite, so what difference will it make. | |
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| | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Nationwide By doing it nationwide it will at least clue people in that have no clue what is going on. Or are unsure about the whole "will your TV work this winter" ads | |
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| | systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace
·Embarq
| I think you'll find that with over 300 Million people in the USA, there are plenty of folks who don't have cable or satellite. I had cable and it sucked with all the drop-outs, tiling, and audio/video sync problems. I prefer dealing with fringe reception.
I do have my two coupons and plan on using them when I find a retailer that carries the unit I want (8-day EPG, Pass-Through, and Smart Antenna at a minimum). Same with my In-Laws.
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Personal Theme Song:
RUSH - Mystic Rythms from Power Windows.
Rush Radio Website | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Don't worry, the test is coming in Feb  | |
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| BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Jwobot :And how is this test going to show that people in Idaho or North Dakota will know about it? The FCC should be doing a nationwide test. Do you think this will be the ONLY test? By the way Idaho and ND only have a combined 900,000 households | |
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IndyDoug
join:2003-10-26
Indianapolis, IN | WWE The people in NC already have CATV or SAT TV because they all watch professional wrestling (WWE). | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: WWE said by IndyDoug :The people in NC already have CATV or SAT TV because they all watch professional wrestling (WWE). and NASCAR | |
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| | wvcaver
join:2005-04-17
Millersburg, OH | Re: WWE hahahahahahaha | |
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ironweasel
Weezy
join:2000-09-13
Belen, NM
| said by MattE :said by IndyDoug :The people in NC already have CATV or SAT TV because they all watch professional wrestling (WWE). and NASCAR February - June: Fox
All-Star Race: Speed TV
June - July 12: TNT
July 27 - August 31: ESPN 
September - November: ABC
The broadcast stations usually have better race coverage. ESPN has more commercial time than race time. Blech.
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But there’s no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Do the Test CORRECTLY Instead of turning off the Analog Signal, broadcast as analog (with the normal feed as digital) a SEPARATE Signal that shows a Static Screen and an Audio stream that informs the viewer that if they are receiving it they will no longer be able to view TV after February. Be PRO ACTIVE not just pull the plug on the analog signal as a test. This way you are TELLING the analog viewers of their situation as opposed to just not broadcasting to them during the test. | |
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| Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX | Re: Do the Test CORRECTLY Best plan I have heard of. Obviously too complex for the FCC. | |
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| Mutiny32
Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO
| That's not the point of this test. They want to see if completely shutting off analog will cause any issues. While this will most likely cause nothing but a bunch of rural residents some inconvenience until they figure out they need to buy either satellite or get their DTV converter box.
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Do the Test CORRECTLY said by Mutiny32 :That's not the point of this test. They want to see if completely shutting off analog will cause any issues. While this will most likely cause nothing but a bunch of rural residents some inconvenience until they figure out they need to buy either satellite or get their DTV converter box. How will broadcasting a special Screen and Audio via the Analog Signal TELLING the viewer of the problem not be a better test than sending out NO Analog Signal during the test period? My way INFORMS the viewer of the need to get satellite or a DTV Converter box - Turning off the Analog feed only prevents them from getting any signal without offering an explanation or assistance in solving the problem. | |
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DataDoc
Nilsson Schmilsson
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC | If I wasn't aware of the change-over, getting no signal without audio would probably make me think it was just off the air.
Audio telling why there was no video would be much more helpful. | |
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MrMoody
Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
| I bet the test finds some mom & pop cable systems, and maybe a small system or two owned and never upgraded by the big boys, that are still receiving analog over the air for their feeds ...
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The public is a poor business manager. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Do the Test CORRECTLY said by amigo_boy :said by RARPSL :Instead of turning off the Analog Signal, broadcast as analog (with the normal feed as digital) a SEPARATE Signal that shows a Static Screen and an Audio stream that informs the viewer that if they are receiving it they will no longer be able to view TV after February. I believe part of their concern is all stations going dead on the same day, causing a huge demand for converters. The converter manufacturers and retailers are probably concerned that only ten people are ignorant, and there'll be no demand. They should require every broadcaster to go dead for one day between Sept. and Feb. 9(?). Also, the video static should be broadcasted video of static, with a text bar at the bottom displaying what's said on audio. Otherwise the Natl. Assoc. of Deaf people will file suit. Mark When I used the term "Static Screen" I should have qualified my meaning. I did not mean a screen full OF Static (ie: what you see if there is no signal) but a static as in "constant" (either a constant crawl or a screen of full of text). The idea is that the analog viewer DOES see some transmission but in lieu of the normal programming, it is a special broadcast explaining of the pending analog shutdown and how to switch to DTV. There would be an accompanying audio explaining the same thing.
As to all the stations going dead, we are talking about a test which is going to occur in a small limited broadcasting market (and I had the impression for a limited period of time not permanently although I could be wrong on this part).
As to the worries of the converter people, this would be a boost for them since my method advertises for the need of the product while just not broadcasting in analog is not as much of a indication that you will need the box. | |
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ibcool
@ameritech.net
| Re: Do the Test CORRECTLY Your so called term "static screen" you suggest them to use they have been using....it's called a "commercial" and they've been running this "static screen" umm....commercial for about a year now on TV saying that as of February 2009 your TV signal will go dark. The public has been currently been informed on TV, in newspapers, in magazines, and all over the place for quite some time now. Currently for the past year now all TV stations have been transmitting both analog and digital simultaneously so people can make the change. I'd have to guess that what the FCC wants to test out by turning off the analog transmission is to see if the public has been actually paying attention to all this publicity and to see how many people are going to whine and cry about how it's not fair to turn off their TV transmission and how they weren't told about it with enough notice and they didn't have enough time to do anything about it even though they've been advertising this for the past couple years now. | |
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| | systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace | Not all analog stations will go off the air. Class "A," Low-Power, & Translator analog stations have no requirement to stop transmitting.
Most PBS, educational, community, and fringe area primary networks use these transmitters. | |
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| eljay001
join:2004-03-17
South Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
| So you don't think the white noise will be obvious enough to people that the analog service is gone? There have been TV ads of all sorts going on for months about it. My local affiliates are putting pop-in ads during the programming about it. By January 2009 I expect they'll probably be running a constant crawl across the screen to alert people. | |
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DTV Victim
@verizon.net
| Better late than never I got my coupon and my Zenith converter last month.
Reception is excellent - unless a car or truck drives by.
Then it just freezes.
My folks have a huge antenna on their roof, with a power rotator. With analog, they can get stations 75 miles away, no problem.
With their new digital set, half of the channels don't come in. The others lose audio.
Am I complaining? Not really, IFF DTV results in more content on multicast channels, not just informericals and weather stations.
But what we've discovered is that while DTV makes snowy reception a thing of the 20th century, crystal-clear pixelated slow-motion silent movies is not exactly what we were expecting.
Over the next year, we'll spend $150-400 to install new antennas on the roof. This is a hidden cost of conversion to DTV, which should be disclosed. I don't have any problem with it - after 50 years, I can understand the need and benefit of a forklift-upgrade, and the desire to recover the spectrum, and the content is still free..
We'll need the FCC to restate its satellite-dish placement rule, so it is understood that it applies to antennas as well.
I do believe that the government SHOULD NOT be handing out discount coupons (paid for by the taxpayers) of any kind, but as they have, they should be stackable, and apply to a converter, antenna/installation, or a new basic SDTV set. | |
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| systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace
·Embarq
| Re: Better late than never Since OTA television is being pushed further up the frequency spectrum, it becomes more critical to Line-of-Sight (LOS) issues and become more problematic for station transmitters beyond the 65 mile limit.
Use this link to see where you stand.
»www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html
This site is a simple guide to reception.
»www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
--
Personal Theme Song:
RUSH - Mystic Rythms from Power Windows.
Rush Radio Website | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY | here comes the anti wifi moms... The same moms who protested the wifi will now do it to tv because wifi is digital and now that tv will be it must too cause danger to kids, but remember only when its digital. | |
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dsldude08
Premium
join:2008-01-03
La Crosse, WI
·CenturyTel Inc.
| Hmm, have they ever thought of this? Maybe they should turn the analog broadcast into something with a message stating that it is a transition to digital TV, and you need to do such and such to receive broadcasts again. They could do this for like a month or whatever. Not a big deal if they actually put some thought into it.
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln | |
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aSic
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:
| Re: Hmm, have they ever thought of this? said by dsldude08 :Maybe they should turn the analog broadcast into something with a message stating that it is a transition to digital TV, and you need to do such and such to receive broadcasts again. They could do this for like a month or whatever. Not a big deal if they actually put some thought into it. A little late to the party I see?  See below for whats already been covered.... 
said by RARPSL :Instead of turning off the Analog Signal, broadcast as analog (with the normal feed as digital) a SEPARATE Signal that shows a Static Screen and an Audio stream that informs the viewer that if they are receiving it they will no longer be able to view TV after February. Be PRO ACTIVE not just pull the plug on the analog signal as a test. This way you are TELLING the analog viewers of their situation as opposed to just not broadcasting to them during the test.
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Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.
Who is Ron Paul? | |
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dsldude08
Premium
join:2008-01-03
La Crosse, WI | Re: Hmm, have they ever thought of this? Hehe, whooops! Thanks! | |
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NTVNAT Group Ltd
@rogers.com
| How about crappy Erie, PA as test market? Here in London, Ontario, Canada, we get 3 Erie, PA locals (ABC, NBC and PBS) via cable (so analogue or digital, this won't effect us). And let me tell you-- there's NOTHING going on dead end Erie, PA. I don't know how the local news anchors can slap on a happy face working in such a market. I'd probably want to commit suicide if my destiny was to anchor news in the Erie market. lol Oh, btw, here in Canada, we don't have to deal w/ all this crap until 2011, so TRULY, you Americans are our guinea pigs.  | |
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ogar
join:2001-12-05
Ephrata, PA
clubs:
| Loest common denominator Anyone not ready for the transition does not deserve to have a TV. They have pushed the transition back so many times it is not funny. Most people will not have to do anythign for their TV to continue to work. Those that are still using 20th century equipment need to upgrade.
The fact we base policies on the lowest common denominator causes us to not stay up with the times | |
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Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
edit:
May 12th, @10:59AM
| Voucher problems 1. Voucher takes too long to come: 8 weeks (yes, that's almost two months). March 15 - May 10.
2. Voucher doesn't stay valid long enough: 10 weeks. May 10 - July 22. They say 90 days, but it's shorter (73 days from date of receipt, 81 days from when they mailed it), because they lied and miscounted from 10 days before they said they mailed it which was about 8 days before I received it (they use "standard" mail, not first class, which is too slow for a quickly expiring voucher).
March 15, 2008: I applied.
Apr 22: When they counted when they mailed the voucher from for the 90 days expiration.
May 2: When they mailed the voucher according to their tracking website.
May 10: 56 days (8 weeks) later after I applied, I received the voucher.
July 22: 73 days (10.4 weeks) after I received it, it expires. 81 days (11.6 weeks) after they said they mailed it is when it expires, instead of the 90 days (12.9 weeks) that they claim it should expire in. I have to find a box that is appropriate in the marketplace within that narrow window of time.
They will not send another one, either, if the one you have expires.
So, #1, you can't use the momentum from studying boxes to get one right away, and #2 you can't take time for the market to mature by the cutoff.
Of course, the side effect of #2 is that it forces the market to be ready sooner, but still, I can't just get my relatives to use their vouchers for something they don't think they'll ever need. I'll probably end up having to subsidize their vouchers for them or something.
Why? Because my surviving relatives are clueless and need to have the boxes as backup, and since we all pay so much taxes, we ought to get some back when it's offered (better than just giving, since they're not going to stop taking yet). And because our budgets and cable suppliers are not constant (i.e., those things could change before our TV sets are moribund, and we might then use antenna).
P.S., anybody know a good DTV converter that's made in USA and doesn't cost more than about $75? Best features would be quality, then NTSC pass-through. (They *do* convert HDTV to NTSC, right? I always assumed they would, since that's the whole point of them.)
Government: why do we allow people who use more government money to have the same voting power as those who pay more taxes? For that matter, why do we let people with low IQ have the same voting power as those with high IQ? Must we always see government, even republics, as things which must be overthrown periodically? I thought we had graduated from that, since we graduated from so much else (we value life higher now, we try to limit theft, we were healthier for a century or so, etc., but lately those things have been sucked out of a lot of US from the south). | |
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FCC to Test DTV Transition
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