FCC To Vote On White Space Broadband Will vote on rules governing unlicensed wireless devices in vacated TV spectrum As some tipsters had suggested earlier this week, the FCC will be addressing white space broadband at their upcoming September 23 meeting. According to a meeting agenda (pdf) posted to the FCC website, the FCC's September meeting will focus on the E-Rate program (specifically, letting universities and schools purchase dark fiber directly), some E911 issues, and White Space broadband. The FCC announcement says that by creating rules that will allow "unlicensed wireless devices to operate in unused parts of TV spectrum," they'll "create opportunities for investment and innovation in advanced Wi-Fi technologies and a variety of broadband services." Somewhere, Wally the interference demon and Dolly Parton (aka the National Association of Broadcasters) are really pissed off.
|
  Duramax08Win8 sucksPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | Dolly parton What the hell does she know about technology in the first place????
just wondering.... | |
|  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | One problem In my area it would show basically all the Tv spectrum as unused. That's not true, but that's what it will show because we are in a fringe area. Morons wanting to use white spaces are to stupid to actually look stuff up to make sure. This will cause problems for sure. | |
|  | | | Re: One problem said by BF69:In my area it would show basically all the Tv spectrum as unused. That's not true, but that's what it will show because we are in a fringe area. Morons wanting to use white spaces are to stupid to actually look stuff up to make sure. This will cause problems for sure. Of course it will. King Julius wants to kill off OTA. | |
| | |  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit | Re: One problem said by fifty nine:said by BF69:In my area it would show basically all the Tv spectrum as unused. That's not true, but that's what it will show because we are in a fringe area. Morons wanting to use white spaces are to stupid to actually look stuff up to make sure. This will cause problems for sure. Of course it will. King Julius wants to kill off OTA. They spent all that time & MONEY converting all the OTA stations to DTV and now they are doing their best to kill off OTA completely. Opening up whitespaces won't do that by itself, but it is just one more step on the path to try and drive OTA in to oblivion. | |
| | | | | | Re: One problem Many have been and are dropping cable to go to OTA to reduce costs and partly because of the freely available HD programing.
I do not know the numbers, but *killing the institution* of 'Over The Air' television, now of course with 'High Definition' broadcasts,' *will* be an uphill battle. | |
| | | | | | | Re: One problem said by OTAman :
Many have been and are dropping cable to go to OTA to reduce costs and partly because of the freely available HD programing.
I do not know the numbers, but *killing the institution* of 'Over The Air' television, now of course with 'High Definition' broadcasts,' *will* be an uphill battle.
This administration is ALL about uphill battles. The healthcare bill, cap 'n' trade, etc... all uphill battles, yet they keep on truckin' | |
|
|  DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | Before a TV Band Device (formerly known as White Space Device) can transmit it needs to know where it is and needs to check an on-line database for incumbent users. TV stations and other licensed users are in the database and therefore the device will not turn on if there's a chance of causing interference.
There are no suitable channels for these things in New York, L. A., Chicago, etc. I doubt they will ever see any kind of mass appeal. | |
| | |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: One problem ..maybe not there.. But the rural areas would welcome it. | |
| | | | DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | Re: One problem Except for Billings, MT., apparently. | |
| | | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
2 edits | Re: One problem said by DavePR:Except for Billings, MT., apparently. We would. Heck, we have 3 WISPs here and plenty of open channels.
I think the mostly rural states would benefit from White Space Broadband. | |
|
| | | | said by DavePR:Before a TV Band Device (formerly known as White Space Device) can transmit it needs to know where it is and needs to check an on-line database for incumbent users. TV stations and other licensed users are in the database and therefore the device will not turn on if there's a chance of causing interference. There are no suitable channels for these things in New York, L. A., Chicago, etc. I doubt they will ever see any kind of mass appeal. The problem is that some areas won't be accurately mapped, and these devices will spew interference all over the TV band. Fringe areas like mine are especially susceptible.
And they absolutely REFUSE to enable signal detection in these devices. One has to wonder why? | |
| | | | DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | Re: One problem "Sensing" was dropped because they couldn't get it to work right. Do whatever you can to get "standing" with the FCC vis a vis input to the database. | |
| | | | | | | Re: One problem said by DavePR:"Sensing" was dropped because they couldn't get it to work right. Do whatever you can to get "standing" with the FCC vis a vis input to the database. Maybe the reason they couldn't get it to work right is because there were actual signals in the area?
Geolocation isn't going to work unless the database is VERY conservative. If it's anything like antennaweb, it's going to be a mess for rural OTA viewers. | |
|
| Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Why not just dedicate a channel? Problem solved. | |
| | | | | Re: One problem said by Simba7:Why not just dedicate a channel? Problem solved. Find a channel that is free in every market.
I'm sure you'll find out that the answer is that there isn't one, unless you're counting channel 37. | |
|
 mr seanProfessional InfidelPremium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
kudos:1 | I guess... ...Minnie Pearl never came thru either, huh? | |
| | | Ed purchase Schools already purchase directly. They get around the "rule" by creating some non-profit that they purchase under. Nothing new with that, since they've been doing it for well over 20 years now.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods | |
| Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Sorry, but they're right There are a LOT of reasons to avoid white space devices. TV interference is only one. The other major reason is that there are tons of us already responsibly using the TV white spaces for wireless microphone systems, and we rely on a high degree of reliability that would be lost if white spaces become available.
The tech world is quick to dismiss us, point out that our use is already unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few compared to the "everybody" that would benefit from other white space devices. If I recall correctly, the wireless microphone issue is what got Dolly Parton to speak out against white space devices.
Quite simply, it's a real issue, and unless you basically never enjoy any form of entertainment or religion, it affects you. Everything from church services to pop concerts to auctions to sports games to live theatre relies on these wireless microphone systems. The loss of them wouldn't just affect the production engineers, it would affect you. The systems work in both directions, and are used for wireless in-ear monitoring too.
Imagine if next time you go to church, a loud hiss interrupts a key part of the pastor's sermon. Imagine if the next time you go to a concert, hissing noises interferes with your favorite songs. Or imagine if the artist messes up due to annoying hiss and drop outs in his or her in-ear monitor. Imagine if next time you're at an auction, a flakey wireless microphone system leads to you bidding far more than you realized you were.
This is the future if white space devices become reality. | |
| |  Shack
join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN | Re: Sorry, but they're right well you could of course go back to using wires. | |
| | | | | Re: Sorry, but they're right said by Shack:well you could of course go back to using wires. But what if they don't want to? | |
| | | DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA | That would cause all manner of accidents. There's a whole generation with no cord skills. They'll end up strangling themselves.
The FCC needs to hear from you regarding their proposal to broaden eligibility for Low Power Auxiliary licenses. If you have a license you can get the aforementioned database. | |
|
|  DaDawgsPremium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA | said by Markie:The tech world is quick to dismiss us, point out that our use is already unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few compared to the "everybody" that would benefit from other white space devices. If I recall correctly, the wireless microphone issue is what got Dolly Parton to speak out against white space devices. Well there you go... Unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few...
Sadly wireless microphones started using white space LONG after the OTV folks had license to the spectrum. They were grandfathered into unlicensed because the manufacturers had deep pockets and plenty of lobbiests.
IMHO they should have been fined out of existence for their kibitzing of white space.
That is probably just me though...
--
--
 | |
| | |  John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | Re: Sorry, but they're right said by DaDawgs:Well there you go... Unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few... "But, but...we're entitled!
*whimper*
--
The Truth is the foremost enemy of the State now.
| |
| | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Did you read my post? My point was that it doesn't only affect a small few. That was my *entire point* - my point was that, realize it or not, almost all Americans enjoy the product of wireless microphone systems. You don't have to be a sound engineer or a performer to enjoy the shows (and the many other uses such systems have) | |
| | | | DaDawgsPremium
join:2010-08-02
Deltaville, VA | Re: Sorry, but they're right said by Markie:Did you read my post? My point was that it doesn't only affect a small few. That was my *entire point* - my point was that, realize it or not, almost all Americans enjoy the product of wireless microphone systems. You don't have to be a sound engineer or a performer to enjoy the shows (and the many other uses such systems have) I read your post... I have not "enjoyed the product of wireless microphone systems" in 25 years.
"Other uses"? Do you mean bugging devices? I don't know of any other "other uses".
--
--
| |
| | | | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right You mean to tell me that you haven't gone to a concert, a play, a church service, or a sporting event - or watched a television newscast on location in 25 years? I doubt it. | |
| | | | | | jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2 | Re: Sorry, but they're right Yeah, most of us HAVE, but not all microphones use the TV whitespace to operate. From what I have read, most high end places (such as national touring bands, tv shows, and sport events) own a license for the frequencies they use. So that mostly leaves the small people (like churches) on the list who use the unlicensed channels.
Why is your stuff more important than Internet, which is becoming a necessity to get through life? The reality is that you could put a TON of microphones into one white space channel. So rather than trying to kill this off, maybe you should be doing the responsible thing and asking for ONE white space channel in each market be dedicated to microphones. Or you could just get a license. | |
| | | | | | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: Sorry, but they're right Wrong. Wireless microphone licenses are ONLY available to TV stations. Concerts, sporting events, etc DO NOT have licenses and they are not eligible to get them. Television programming may, and indeed I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.
ALMOST ALL professional wireless microphone systems DO use the television whitespace. The exceptions are few and far between. Toy-quality microphones are generally the only users of ISM bands due to the interference in them that white-space devices propose to add to the TV bands.
Sabine makes a 2.4GHz ISM system that functions EXTREMELY well even in the high-noise 2.4GHz band. However it is an extremely advanced digital wireless system, with a very high price tag, that still doesn't perform as well as standard white space microphones. It's mostly popular for worldwide touring where you KNOW it's legal everywhere.
I'm not saying wireless mics are more important than the Internet... but TV white spaces are not the place for the Internet. Licensed spectrum is - and it provides a better Internet experience to. What we need is more licensed spectrum to be GIVEN to non-profits with a public interest plan for it... | |
|
| John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | said by Markie:This is the future if white space devices become reality. FUD
--
The Truth is the foremost enemy of the State now.
| |
| | | | | Re: Sorry, but they're right Expect any TV Band (white space) device to have an embedded kill switch at least for channels 21-51 so when AT&T Mobility and Verizon Wireless try to take over that spectrum they can have it (at least for billions at auction) without worry about pesky unlicensed broadband devices. | |
|
|  dMarksMelting Faces For FunPremium
join:2007-02-09
Jackson, MI | said by Markie:There are a LOT of reasons to avoid white space devices. TV interference is only one. I for one don't watch OTA (digital now) TV. Besides, I highly doubt it's actually that big of an issue. TBH I highly doubt there'll be any actual interference at all. This is all my opinion of course, same thing you're posting.
said by Markie:The other major reason is that there are tons of us already responsibly using the TV white spaces for wireless microphone systems, and we rely on a high degree of reliability that would be lost if white spaces become available. Weren't you using that before all this white space was opened up? If so...and there were no interference issues then...what exactly will be the problem now...? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
said by Markie:The tech world is quick to dismiss us... No, just those spreading FUD
said by Markie:...point out that our use is already unlicensed, not guaranteed, and only affects a small few compared to the "everybody" that would benefit from other white space devices. If I recall correctly, the wireless microphone issue is what got Dolly Parton to speak out against white space devices. I highly doubt Dolly Parton is going to be of much help to your cause, so bringing her up really...is just plain silly actually. Again, Wireless devices such as microphones have already been in use since before the transition to digital OTA TV. My guess is you already know that interference is going to happen, since it's done so for you when OTA analog TV was still going and you couldn't do anything about it. Guess what...you still can't do anything about it.
said by Markie:Quite simply, it's a real issue, and unless you basically never enjoy any form of entertainment or religion, it affects you. Everything from church services to pop concerts to auctions to sports games to live theatre relies on these wireless microphone systems. The loss of them wouldn't just affect the production engineers, it would affect you. The systems work in both directions, and are used for wireless in-ear monitoring too. Imagine if next time you go to church, a loud hiss interrupts a key part of the pastor's sermon. Imagine if the next time you go to a concert, hissing noises interferes with your favorite songs. Or imagine if the artist messes up due to annoying hiss and drop outs in his or her in-ear monitor. Imagine if next time you're at an auction, a flakey wireless microphone system leads to you bidding far more than you realized you were. This is the future if white space devices become reality. I'll say it once again. Wireless microphone systems, for one example, have been in place for a long time. Way before this digital transition. I will not say there won't be any bumps in the road...but I highly doubt there will be any difference once White Space devices are implemented.
All I see in your post is FUD, and that's pretty messed up.
--
Windows XP Pro SP3|AMD Phenom II x4 965 BE|Asus M3N72-D Motherboard|4GB Patriot PC2-8500 1066MHz RAM|EVGA GeForce GTS 250 1GB Ram Superclock Edition x2|Corsair CMPSU 650HX 650w Modular|Lian Li Lancool PC-K62 Case | |
| | |
See 9 replies to this post | |
| jcremin
join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2 | said by Markie:If I recall correctly, the wireless microphone issue is what got Dolly Parton to speak out against white space devices. Actually, it was the tons of money that they paid her to read a script. It's what "actors" do for a living, ya know... | |
|
Reviews:
 ·Millenicom
 ·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| White Space. The fact is that the regulations requiring the proper application for license to operate wireless microphones was never enforced. The manufacturers and users never did anything prior to the white space broadband proposal to fix the enforcement problem themselves. That being said, I think the proper application of white space broadband is to restrict it to Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) who are licensed for fixed location operation only. For example Point To Point(PTP) or Point To MultiPoint(PTMP). This allows for a professional installation of carrier grade equipment at the locations. The FCC license that has points of contact in the FCC database on who, what, where, when, and how to contact someone about interference issues, similar to a broadcast station engineer. | |
| | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: White Space. I can absolutely support such a plan provided they also operate on a must accept interference basis. Point to multipoint WISP installations running at similar power levels with high gain antennas are not gonna cause me major problems. I may need to start operating receivers on stage, and lose some range, but I'll live. It's white space Wi-Fi and Bluetooth replacements (or worse, baby monitors, video security systems, and the entire plague of junk that crowds the ISM bands) that give me nightmares... | |
|
 KL
@comcast.net | OTA Doesn't anyone care about the poor schmuck who pulled together his/her life savings to buy that beautiful New 52 inch HDTV and put up a large antenna to receive the best TV entertainment available with the bonus of extra stations. This person relies on OTA for news emergency information and more. In MI we have over 600,000 OTA households. They may or may not have BB on their phones but if the FCC messes up a Tigers game or a U of M or MSU game there will be hell to pay for our lawmakers who have allowed the FCC to run a muck and try to force the public into "Paid" entertainment services. Who really cares about the public?? I sure do not see good public policy coming out of the FCC. | |
| | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | Re: OTA White space devices shouldn't affect in-market TV reception. | |
|
| |
|
|
