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 |   Blasterbator Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20 Jackson, MS
·Cox HSI
| Re: Just more protection of telcos;killing competi Line sharing has always been a silly concept as long as the Telcos were allowed to offer their own competing service.
Hopefully investment will now be made in "alternative last mile technologies" such as wireless, LEO-Satellite and fiber instead of the counter-bureaucracy bureaucracy required to deploy and support services via the RBOC's lines. -- "If PCs are hard, then Macs are flaccid" -bb | |
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 |  clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22 GA | Yep we could be heading back to AT&T, sort of. There's a lot of speculation the RBOC's wanna merge at the end of the day. | |
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  CPM
join:2001-08-24 Miami, FL | Well.
Maybe now we will see faster DSL speeds. | |
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 |   DrTCP Yours truly Premium,ExMod 1999-04 join:1999-11-09 Round Rock, TX
| said by CPM :Maybe now we will see faster DSL speeds. When there is no competition what is the incentive for Telco to provide service at a reasonable price? They know you are captive so they can ask whatever they please. Oh, if you do not live in upscale neighborhood you can wait much much longer.... | |
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 |  |  AquaBlaze Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA
| Re: Well. said by DrTCP :Oh, if you do not live in upscale neighborhood you can wait much much longer.... Hell, even in an upscale neighborhood, that may or may not be the case. We didn't have affordable broadband up until about 2002-2003, even as all the surrounding urban neighborhoods were getting wired up.
*laughs* I remember AT&T calling us then about a 128k ISDN line for the low-low price of $100+ a month. Uh-huh. We needed broadband, but we weren't about to pay 3x-4x subscription rates of the surrounding neighborhoods. | |
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 |   cao1964
join:2000-08-09 Danville, PA | Sure, and next you will see free internet also, I have a few things to sell you. | |
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 |   JohnDrenZ Premium join:2000-04-03 Brooklyn, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: UNE-P ? There wont be any significant impact but a DLEC like covad would have to negotiate an UNE-P loop now instead of line sharing. Line sharing in my opinion really doesnt work for a DLEC because there is no real preprovisioning like what is done for an unbundled loop. So in some cases you get no service or crappy service on a line shared loop. | |
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 Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19 Chicago, IL
| Telcos lay down lines.... ...and others reap the benefits. It is unfortunate that it costs too much to lay down the infrastructure or to even get it started. Sharing the lines the someone else paid for sucks but it does help competition. It's a double edged sword.
Cable companies are lucky that they don't have to share. So they get to monopolize the area, but only until Cable company B comes in with it's own lines to bring on competition. A heavy price to pay for a shot in the dark.
Most people will not switch from one company for the other unless the price difference is significant. But how much will it cost company B just to bring in a decent customer base? Lose money to hope to make money.
I don't feel bad for the baby bells having to share their lines, but I understand that it sucks. | |
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 |  priller
join:2000-10-20 Gainesville, VA
·callwithus
·Callcentric
·Vonage
| Re: Telcos lay down lines.... said by Plldwnyrpnts :...and others reap the benefits. It is unfortunate that it costs too much to lay down the infrastructure or to even get it started. Sharing the lines the someone else paid for sucks but it does help competition. It's a double edged sword. Line sharing does not equal FREE. If Covad or others "share", they still have to pay the telco for the access.
People always seem to think that the telco is being forced to give something away and not get revenue. Not true. | |
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 |  |   SteveCon IBEW 2222 Boston, MA Premium join:2004-09-02 Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Telcos lay down lines.... said by priller :said by Plldwnyrpnts :...and others reap the benefits. It is unfortunate that it costs too much to lay down the infrastructure or to even get it started. Sharing the lines the someone else paid for sucks but it does help competition. It's a double edged sword. Line sharing does not equal FREE. If Covad or others "share", they still have to pay the telco for the access. People always seem to think that the telco is being forced to give something away and not get revenue. Not true. You're right, they're not giving it away for free. They give it away for a LOSS. Simply put, the government sets the rate for which the telco can charge the CLEC for the loop. This amount is LESS than what it cost for the loop & the maintenance. How the hell is that fair?? CLEC's have to be STUPID to NOT make money. Maybe that's why there are so many CLECs. It's a license to print money!
And I don't know how the CATV groups get their digital phone classified as an "information service" and avoid having to share their lines. If you regulate one - you have to regulate the other. Simple as that. -- I work for the ILEC.. stuff happens. | |
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 |   Maxeh Woot? Premium join:2002-12-23 Chicago, IL clubs: | yes, but telcos built the infrastructure laregely with PUBLIC money, hence the infrastructure should be open to the public -- Woot? | |
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 |  |  raye Premium join:2000-08-14 Orange, CA
| Re: Telcos lay down lines.... And this is the difference between cable and local telcos.
Cable footed the bill for their infrastructure without taxpayer support. The local telcos had taxpayer financed aid in putting infrastructure in place.
IMHO, Cable should not be required to share, but telcos should.
What will this line sharing elimination do for T1 providers? | |
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 |  |  |   JohnDrenZ Premium join:2000-04-03 Brooklyn, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: Telcos lay down lines.... said by raye :What will this line sharing elimination do for T1 providers? T1 is an unbundled product (UNE-P) so any ruling wouldnt effect it. | |
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 |  |  |  skrupowies
join:2002-08-22 Wallingford, CT clubs:
·AT&T U-Verse
| I suppose one could argue that it was "semi-public" money that placed the majority of the existing cables and poles since they were done during the days of big time monopoly. However, ALL of the DSL based infrastructure (DSLAMs, NGDLC RTs, fiber, etc) has been placed during the days of competition. There is no public money involved so there should be no requirement to share that equipment. And of course there is that great misnomer called competition anyway. How can it be called competition when NO ONE wants to build their own network? All any of them want to do is mooch off the incumbents. Let the incumbents design it, let the incumbents build it, let the incumbents maintain it, let the incumbents provision it but let me use it for some ridiculously low cost so I can slap my name on the bill. | |
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 |  cmaenginsb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-19 Palmdale, CA
| While the Baby Bells have to share their lines, it's not like it's free. It's not like it costs them anything. Understand that they are able to charge a fee to anyone using their lines to recover their costs. So it doesn't cost them anything.
What it does cost is their profit because by sharing that line means that someone else is making money on it and not them.
Not only is it a huge expense to create create a large network, think of the excess cabling etc. I have long said that the company who is maintaining the facilities should operate independantly of the company providing services.
As to higher speeds from this, nope this will make it worse. In areas where there isn't competition expect pricing to go up and speeds remain the same. The only thing that will drive DSL speeds up in certain areas is cable, as cable increases in speeds DSL will do the same to match it. After all if it wasn't for cable internet we'd probably all still be on 56k modems. | |
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 |  |   rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04 USA
| Re: Telcos lay down lines.... said by cmaenginsb :What it does cost is their profit because by sharing that line means that someone else is making money on it and not them. Not necessarily. It's like acquiring a wholesale customer. The costs of acquiring an equal number of retail customers isn't there (i.e. advertising, salespeople, etc.) Of course I guess these deals require a lot of attorneys, so maybe it is a wash... | |
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 Stumbles
join:2002-12-17 Port Saint Lucie, FL | year right. Anytime a government agency proclaims one of their decisions will benefit the customers be prepared to pull more money out of your back pocket.
The FCC was bought by corporations a long time ago. | |
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 |  priller
join:2000-10-20 Gainesville, VA
·callwithus
·Callcentric
·Vonage
| Re: year right. said by Stumbles :The FCC was bought by corporations a long time ago. Exactly! This is nothing but 3rd world style gov't corruption at the highest level. | |
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 |   rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04 USA
| said by Stumbles :Anytime a government agency proclaims one of their decisions will benefit the customers be prepared to pull more money out of your back pocket. The FCC was bought by corporations a long time ago. It looks like Chairman Martin is trying to outdo former Chairman Powell in cloaking corporate-lobbied decisions as consumer-friendly initiatives. He has at least another three years to do damage, so hang on tight folks while he "fixes" our broken broadband strategy.  | |
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  bent not broken Premium join:2004-10-04 Longmont, CO clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| So what happens to CLEC customers? In my office I currently have Covad, with LBDSL as the ISP. I chose them for several specific reasons, primarily the fact that Qwest uses PPPoA, which is the most useless piece of trash ever put on this earth. Am I going to be stuck with Qwest? Am I going to have to shell out the bucks for a T1 just to get usable service? This is bullshit. I take back what I've said about "their lines, their rules." | |
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 |  BullroarerT
join:2003-10-08 Fountain Hills, AZ | Re: So what happens to CLEC customers? agreed, PPPoA sucks! what competition, there's only one or two dsl modems on the open market place that support PPPoA, now that's competition! I'll never recommend Qwest for DSL | |
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 |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| said by bent :This is bullshit. I take back what I've said about "their lines, their rules." Sorry, too late to take it back. ... You asked for it, you got it, Toyota!
Hello Moto... wanna sell some canopy?
 -- Improve your wireless signal! | |
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  Sean The Great Divide
join:2004-01-23 Richmond Hil
·Bell Sympatico
| Two ways. I dunno, I see this going two ways. With the 125 or so odd years of existance, the telcos are ancient. Maybe they'll respect their age and perform the way they're expected to? This definately means more revenue for them, since anyone who wants to use DSL has to go with them.
It could translate to higher money in the pockets of the execs, or they could do the right thing and invest that money in performance upgrades. I'm not just talking abotu speed. CS imrovement, more outreach, better service when shit hits the fan, stuff like that.
If they deregulate it and it all goes wrong, why can't the public just go to the FCC? Isn't that what they're for? | |
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 |  jbjetta Premium join:2004-07-23 Laurel, MD
| Re: Two ways. hahahaha, you think they will bother to improve CS, outreach or service if they are the only game in town? They will do enough to keep the PUC off their back and thats about it. Why do you think ever LEC out there has a derogetory nickname? They do what they want when they want and thats fine.
I cannot even get DSL because I am on a 30k foot cable pair, there is a CLEV with an RT in it 4k feel from my house, but the LEC wont reengineer me over there, I have to order a second service and take the luck of the draw? Thats how they will contine to operate. | |
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 |  |   Sean The Great Divide
join:2004-01-23 Richmond Hil | Re: Two ways. How are they the only game in town? Cable competes with them, don't they? | |
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 |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| said by Sean :If they deregulate it and it all goes wrong, why can't the public just go to the FCC? Isn't that what they're for? Well, that was the plan in the beginning. Today the FCC is the stop over point from civil service to a nice cushy job in the communications industry with a fat pension and a fatter salary.
"Deregulation"? That's another word for "sold out" isn't it? -- Improve your wireless signal! | |
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  sockEMback
@comcast.net
| Ho hum,Business as usual Snce when is the FCC a legislative branch? All they seem to do is bend the laws around to the highest bidder! I'll remember their righteousness when I cheat on my taxes! After all,We ought to play by the same rules! ) | |
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 |   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Ho hum,Business as usual said by sockEMback: Snce when is the FCC a legislative branch? All they seem to do is bend the laws around to the highest bidder! I'll remember their righteousness when I cheat on my taxes! After all,We ought to play by the same rules!  ) They just follow Congress' lead. There, laws are written for the highest bidder. What's the difference? -- When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire. | |
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 amejr999 Eric Premium join:2001-01-13 Fair Lawn, NJ clubs: | breaking news CNN/Money: FCC to declare phone company DSL service an 'information service,' freeing carriers from some rules, Reuters reports. Details coming. | |
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 flushls
join:2004-11-02 Joyce, WA | All this does is speed wireless BB The bells are now setup so they can be sued under anti-trust regs. I have been watching this for awhile here in QWEST territory there are a lot of WISP's and indies that are ready to stick it to them. | |
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  richardpor Fur it up
join:2003-04-19 Portland, OR
| FCC dose not go far enough WE need to go beyond the ridiculous notion of sharing. How can one share the physical wires from the central wires to my apartment? The FCC need to make it loud and clear that telcos and cable are providing a fix connection. This is what I am buying from Comcast not the data that travels over them like this web site. One cannot slap dial-up rules on a fixed-dedicated connection. All the FCC need to do is to protect my rights to purchase additional service from a hosting service. In other words If I wish to purchase a domain name and additional web and e-mail hosting services from Go Daddy, Comcast can not prevent me to access GO Daddys servers using Comcast lines. I cat testify Comcast and Verizon does not block me for content or web services. While I use Verizon then switched to Comcast for my personal e-mail, I get my Ebay business e-mail and my own web store is hosted on Insider Hosting. I am planning to move my e-mail and person web site to a web hosting company and get a personal domain name because I might switch back to DSL, then I will never have go thin the pain of changing all my email addresses. | |
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 johnh123
join:2002-11-19 Chicago, IL | finally This is great, and it is very pro-consumer. Now the rollouts will increase- more FIOS, more lightspeed, more goodness. This should have happened years ago, but better late than never. | |
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 |   kamm
join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Re: finally said by johnh123 :This is great, and it is very pro-consumer. Now the rollouts will increase- more FIOS, more lightspeed, more goodness. This should have happened years ago, but better late than never. This is ridiculous.
This rule is *clearly* against consumer interests, this will *create monopolies* and competition will disappear. | |
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 |  |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Covington, LA | Re: finally And prices will go down and available services will increase. | |
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 |  |  |   kamm
join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Re: finally said by bogey780 :And prices will go down and available services will increase. Sure and finally you kiss the frog and it turns out to be a princess... | |
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  kamm
join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
edit: August 5th, @01:06PM
| FCC should be disbanded, I'm more & more convinced FCC, in most of the cases is clearly against the consumers interests but serving the corporations and minority of the cases ignoring it and only a fraction of the cases when it actually cares about us at all.
FCC should be disbanded. This case is classic example how utterly rotten this organisation became, how fully driven by checks written by big companies only. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
|
 ElJay
join:2004-03-17 South Portland, ME | Higher prices here we come It sounds like higher prices are on the way for me, which is just what I need. It's so great that the modern day American government has the greedy corporations in mind for every decision that it makes. | |
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  eric_n_dfw
join:2001-10-22 Euless, TX | Oh great! I just switched over to SpeakEasy OneLink + VoIP (Covad naked DSL) -- does this mean I will be having to use SBC again - say it isn't so!!!! | |
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  logic1977 Premium join:2001-02-11 Tucker, GA
| Thisis a good thing This is a good thing. The only real broadband competition was DSL vs Cable, and DSL had an arm tied behind it's back. This ruling makes that battle less one sided. Like it or not all the indie ISPs and resellers like Covad don't matter.
They are too small to really make an impact, and while I don't think they will go away, even if they disappeared, nothing would change in the big picture.
You can't have real competition if you have to buy service from your "competitor" That would be like me claiming to compete with ford by buying Mustangs, calling them Wild Horses and selling them under my own brand. How on earth would I be a competing Car manufacturer? I can only sell what Ford offers and have no way to make a better product.
This order will increase the cable vs DSL battles, which is where most of the consumer benefit will come from. Indie ISPs have no ability to create a price war as long as the ILEC sets the base price (what the whole seller pay for the line), nor can they drive faster service. If the ILEX doesn't sell 10 meg than neither can its resellers.
Cable can do all of those things. So if you want faster cheaper service, you should LOVE these new rules.
History has shown that if you want consumer benefits than get the government the hell out of the way. You can rely on corporate greed to get consumers what they want.
A smart indie ISP would also take this as Thier clue to start looking into some WiMax type solutions, its going to cost a lot to deploy, but when your playing poker with the big dogs, you cant come cheap. | |
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 |   djlloyd Premium join:2002-12-18 Goose Creek, SC
edit: August 9th, @03:43PM
| Re: This is a good thing I could not agree more, this deregulation will spark more growth in infrastructure than one could believe. When the LEC's can realize full compensation for said digital connections they will only get better from infrastructure improvements to provide the service.
I have always been one to purchase my services from the local infrastructure owner. In doing so I get far better service and when things go wrong remedy is much faster. It eliminates the finger pointing at fault and the problem just gets fixed fast. You as a direct customer of the LEC are more valued than a third party lease arrangement.
I am surprised at the number of people that want more regulation and middle men. The internet has brought us all better economy through the processes of DIRECT marketing and lower prices. Why would you promote multilevel marketing involving someone else's infrastructure in these days.
Look at the locations of the individuals wanting more regulation! These are some of the worst places on earth to try and do something without major involvement of lawyers. This is not a condescending statement to those people in these areas, but their responses show they are a product of over regulated government.
I do think the FCC is doing a great job at protecting our media rights. Look what how OTARD has protected our personal rights to TV, Radio, and DATA reception.
»www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
Remember, If you build it, they will come, a quote so many have used from the movie "Field of Dreams". It is true, there can be more than one infrastructure, look at Knowlogy build outs in areas where LEC's and CableCo's are already in place.
Deregulation kill competition, I don't think so.
:D:D -- Respectfully, Dennis
--- A US NAVY NUCLEAR SUBMARINE VETERAN. | |
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