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FCC Has $185 Million in Unclaimed Broadband Funding
After AT&T, Verizon Turn Back on DSL Users
by Karl Bode Friday 17-Aug-2012 tags: coverage · business · bandwidth · consumers
Telecompetitor directs our attention to the fact that the FCC still has around $185 million in unclaimed broadband funds available from phase one of their Connect America Fund. As we've been noting, Frontier signed up quickly for the funds, agreeing to take $71.9 million to wire some 92,000 homes. However, some companies (like Windstream) have balked at taking full funding, saying that getting $775 per install wasn't enough for their liking. AT&T and Verizon have refused funding entirely, as both companies have made every indication they have no interest in retaining millions of their DSL users, or expanding fixed line broadband in any meaningful fashion. The balking by smaller telcos suggests that unlike previous government telecom subsidies, the FCC's program for once actually has guidelines ensuring the money gets used correctly.

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Rob
In Deo speramus.
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They already get government funding..

Why would they take money that has requirements attached to them when they are already receiving funding from the government (aka the taxpayers) that has very little restrictions?
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Linklist
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Longport, NJ
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Re: They already get government funding..

said by Rob:

Why would they take money that has requirements attached to them when they are already receiving funding from the government (aka the taxpayers) that has very little restrictions?

And what funding would that be?
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Rob
In Deo speramus.
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Re: They already get government funding..

said by Linklist:

said by Rob:

Why would they take money that has requirements attached to them when they are already receiving funding from the government (aka the taxpayers) that has very little restrictions?

And what funding would that be?

Relay Service funding for starters... Not to mention the numerous government contracts that are overpriced.

And let us not forget any private deals between AT&T and the NSA.. do you think AT&T is letting the NSA in for free?
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tshirt
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Re: They already get government funding..

said by Rob:

Relay Service funding for starters... Not to mention the numerous government contracts that are overpriced.

And let us not forget any private deals between AT&T and the NSA.. do you think AT&T is letting the NSA in for free?

You don't suppose that Relay Service fees, actually pays for the relay service, and the NSA payments go towards what the NSA does and neither go toward connecting new homes.

You seem to believe each dollar of income can be used 2-3 times for different tasks.

Rob
In Deo speramus.
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Kendall, FL
kudos:3

Re: They already get government funding..

said by tshirt:

said by Rob:

Relay Service funding for starters... Not to mention the numerous government contracts that are overpriced.

And let us not forget any private deals between AT&T and the NSA.. do you think AT&T is letting the NSA in for free?

You don't suppose that Relay Service fees, actually pays for the relay service, and the NSA payments go towards what the NSA does and neither go toward connecting new homes.

It's been established that the relay service is being abused and AT&T, for the most part, isn't do anything to curb that abuse.
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tshirt
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2 edits

Re: They already get government funding..

So the gov't should police that program. it doesn't mean any excess use nets AT&T profit, nor does it pay for connecting new homes.
Remember that AT&T was the service provider, the abusers were others who misused the system, by law AT&T was not allowed to make judgement as to whether it was appropriete usage or not.
And that the operators/whistleblowers who reported the abuse did so in violation of the law (it was a good thing/bad law)

You should really blame whoever drafted the ADA regulations for not including proper safe guards.

Rob
In Deo speramus.
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Re: They already get government funding..

I certainly do blame the poorly written bills, which have good intention, but didn't foresee the abuse and lack of responsibility on the teclo's part.

And since neither pay for connecting new homes, AT&T is more than happy to keep the cash cow rolling while rejecting the broadband funding that.. would.. shocker.. make them actually show results!
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tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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Re: They already get government funding..

Suppose they don't believe it is possible to provide the upgrades and connect the homes under the stated conditions for the amount offered.
aren't they being responsible for refusing to take the funding?

Rob
In Deo speramus.
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Re: They already get government funding..

said by tshirt:

Suppose they don't believe it is possible to provide the upgrades and connect the homes under the stated conditions for the amount offered.
aren't they being responsible for refusing to take the funding?

Possibility. I'm not sure if you would know this, but has AT&T presented the FCC with a better, more acceptable plan on the use of the funds to wire America?
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tshirt
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Re: They already get government funding..

They've probably suggested many plans.
But generally YOU (gov't/people) figure out what you want done, and then you go to the contractor (s) and ask "How Much?
If you just start with (a likely) prime contractor and say "what do we need?/just do it/ send the bill later." you end up with endless pentagon style programs and overruns and delays and get the most expensive, bullet-proof, bomb resistant, triple locked, lasar guided swiss army knife ever built.

given you will NEVER see that kind of budget, or timetable or national priority assigned to this what you really need to do is encourage those prime contractor to do much of this on their own (requires consitant longterm investment, tax, and RoW regulations that acknowledge the long(10-20-30-40 year) investment window needed, so they can assure their lenders/stockholders of a return.) and only suplement/direct for the few places that will NEVER become profitable.
To keep costs down to match our limited We The PEOPLE need to trim as many extras from our list as possible, so we might still give schools and libraries freebies, but city dept's? and everyone we think has some sort of disadvantage? or has a limited budget? and those we wish to honor? (I have seen proposals that suggest ALL vets should get free service and or wound vets, which while we are thankful, everyone who can MUST pay, or the remaining few will be overwhelmed by the cost (social security?).

In return for their longterm financing, design and construction they will need to charge a rate that pays for ALL of it. which may be more than some think it should be.

ruralwelfare

@comcastbusiness.net
Rural Welfare from the Department of Agriculture:
Electricity, Water, Sewage, Telephone, Cell Phone, Roads, Internet, Schools, School Lunches....Billions and Billions every year

Rural Welfare from NTIA and the FCC

Rural Welfare from Interior

Rural Welfare from Congress - Ask Mich McConnel why HIS rural state gets more than $2 in federal spending for every $1 in federal taxes paid by the people of his rural state while California gets about 75 Cents. 42% of Kentucky's state budget comes from the Federal treasury - only a point or two higher than Sam Brownback's Kansas (but not touching the 66% Federal Budget contribution made to CATHOLIC CHARITIES.) Nikki Haley's state gets even more. No one beats tea bagger Palin's Alaska haul though - except for that great individualist, Haley "I want to be president and make all of American look like Mississippi: Fat, Lazy, Poor and Stupid" Barbour and the Great Welfare State of Mississippi.

tshirt
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Re: They already get government funding..

On the other hand being able to call the farmers out in that rural area and buy some beef and some corn to eat, and cotton for your skivvies and wood to build your home and so on is pretty handy too.. unless you're that naked, hungry city guy.

chris laco

@sbcglobal.net

USF

Good. Now can we all stop paying the damn USF "Fee".

tshirt
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Re: USF

said by chris laco :

Good. Now can we all stop paying the damn USF "Fee".

This was "stimulus" money, not USF which will continue in a newly mutilated form. this time to fund broadband rather than dialtone.
gunther_01
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Saybrook, IL

Re: USF

CAF IS the (old) USF now. The "stimulus" money was dolled out quite some time ago. CAF has multiple "phases"
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hydnar

@b2xonline.net

Grant Monies for Whom to Benefit From

What is really sick here is that I have newly installed fiber optic (installed summer 2011) right in front of my house that was installed with federal grant money BUT it was installed exclusively for the elementary school 0.2 miles away and NO ONE else can get access to. The only broadband options here are satellite and a basic canopy system with NO cell-based or cable or dsl connectivity either. Talk about last mile, we are last mile and does the government really care?

FBGuy
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: Grant Monies for Whom to Benefit From

that federal grant money you talk about wouldn't come close to being enough to hook up more than just the school.

hydnar

@b2xonline.net

Re: Grant Monies for Whom to Benefit From

Anyway, when they started plowing the fiber in they placed a huge sign in the middle of the project that clearly stated that the project was funded my federal stimulus money. The county project included connecting the 6 outlying elementary schools with a fiber system to facilitate video learning. There were already fiber lines through the center of the county, they just did not reach out into the outer limits. Like I said, seems bad to have the fiber in place but not allow anyone else to use it - opening up to paying customers would be a way to offset the tax money that was used to put the fiber optic in place.
elefante72

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Hence why the government sucks and should stick to basics. I takes your money and uses it for their purposes, not your best interests.

What they could do is once the trunk is installed, let local coops connect in to run their own gig. That would make sense except that the industry is upside down on the legislative front.

Stimulus was essentially a cash payout to corporations. Take a look at comcast/twc/att and look how they were rolling in dough on the stimulus.

Plain and simple the big guys ROI period is not there for rural areas, so it should be opened to coops, period which can do this locally and affordability.

tshirt
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Re: Grant Monies for Whom to Benefit From

said by elefante72:

Take a look at comcast/twc/att and look how they were rolling in dough on the stimulus.

I'm not sure if this was intended or not, but CC, TWC and AT&T all refused stimulus money, but your statement creates the impression that they got rich from it.

anyone could have applied for these grants, so apparent nobody else thought they could build out those specific areas at that price either.
openbox9
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japan
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Return it to the treasury

Please, please, don't waste this money again. I can only imagine what Phase II will bring if the FCC can't even dole out half of the Phase I money. Something is wrong with the program if money can't be given away.
silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: Return it to the treasury

said by openbox9:

Please, please, don't waste this money again. I can only imagine what Phase II will bring if the FCC can't even dole out half of the Phase I money. Something is wrong with the program if money can't be given away.

I disagree. The fact that they can't give away money is perhaps the best thing I have heard about a government program. It means they have true requirements and stipulations on the money. I am looking forward to phase II.

As I have said before, many of the rural residents who are unserved pay many more times the taxes of people in the city. Farmers in particular pay sickening amount of taxes. Giving them a little bit back for their tax money instead of spending it on foolish projects is an excellent idea that pushes the economy forward.
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

Hmm, I see you're from Fairfax. Nice rural town. Farmers pay a sickening amount of taxes? Please provide examples, because from my experience, that's not true.
silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: Return it to the treasury

The average farm size in Iowa was 331 acres in 2007. Based on the taxes I know many paid last year, that farm could have paid easily $60k from income and property taxes alone last year, after all the deductions. That's a lot of money for a small business with high expenses to swallow.
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

You need to give me percentages, not dollar figures. I'm from a cornfield in IA too and I have/had many farmers in my family. I've not once heard complaints of paying too many taxes...at least beyond the standard "we pay too many taxes in this country" that many people say.
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Return it to the treasury

quote:
You need to give me percentages, not dollar figures.

Thats funny because people who are against government spending (on anything except defense) are usually the ones quoting dollar figures to show that the rich pay 'most' of the taxes.
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

I'm against wasteful spending, not government spending per se. And FWIW, the "rich" do pay a vast majority of the taxes in this country. I can't imagine anyone legitimately arguing otherwise.

So, what percent of income do farmers contribute in taxes?
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Return it to the treasury

said by openbox9:

I'm against wasteful spending, not government spending per se.

Fair enough, me too. Just out of curiosity, do you consider the current defense expenditures to be excessive and/or wasteful? I do. Defense spending supporters tend to justify the excessive levels by comparing defense budgets as a percentage of GDP... a totally worthless measure by logical examination.

said by openbox9:

And FWIW, the "rich" do pay a vast majority of the taxes in this country. I can't imagine anyone legitimately arguing otherwise.

Admittedly statistics can be made to agree with both sides. As you obviously noted, the definition of 'rich' factors heavily in the determination. But when examined as 'From whom does the majority of the tax revenue come', the answer I usually arrive at is the middle class.

said by openbox9:

So, what percent of income do farmers contribute in taxes?

I haven't the foggiest idea... I work for Verizon. I was only commenting on the irony of reversing the general rule of using dollar amounts when discussing who pays what.

i.e.
Romney pays around 13% in taxes (if we give him the benefit of the doubt)... I pay around 30%. Hence, I pay more taxes than Romney.

The usual counter-argument to this is 'Romney pays millions of dollars in taxes, how much do you pay?' The dollars figures tend to be quoted rather than the percentages.
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

said by CXM_Splicer:

Just out of curiosity, do you consider the current defense expenditures to be excessive and/or wasteful?

Since we've gone OT, I believe that we waste a good deal of money "nation building" and sticking our nose in places that we shouldn't be. Given the number of pressing issues in our country, and those of our allies, I believe that we could refocus our efforts in some areas. Do we spend too much on defense? That's a hard question to answer. One could argue that since our sovereignty has survived this long, that we're spending enough on defense. However, I have no doubt that we could cut defense spending (as we are) and still maintain a similar position in the world scene.

Question back at you. Why are you just focusing on defense? What about a lot of the non-discretionary programs that we throw money at hand over fist?
said by CXM_Splicer:

Admittedly statistics can be made to agree with both sides. As you obviously noted, the definition of 'rich' factors heavily in the determination. But when examined as 'From whom does the majority of the tax revenue come', the answer I usually arrive at is the middle class.

Obviously definitions are important, so how do you define "rich" and "middle class"?
said by CXM_Splicer:

I haven't the foggiest idea... I work for Verizon. I was only commenting on the irony of reversing the general rule of using dollar amounts when discussing who pays what.

I'm not sure there's a general rule. Arguing how much a person pays in taxes only becomes relevant when you know how much that person earns.
said by CXM_Splicer:

Romney pays around 13% in taxes (if we give him the benefit of the doubt)... I pay around 30%. Hence, I pay more taxes than Romney.

You contribute a higher effective rate in taxes, you don't necessarily contribute more in taxes. There is a big difference. Having said that, if your effective tax rate really is 30%, you may want to speak with an accountant.
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Return it to the treasury

I focus primarily on defense spending because it is the most blatant example of where cuts should be made. Instead, we focus on non-discretionary entitlement spending and actually INCREASE defense spending. It is a ridiculous situation that screams fraud and I don't think anyone doubts that the people making these decisions are (directly or indirectly) profiting from them. By conservatives' estimates, defense spending makes up a full 14% of the budget. The numbers are actually much higher because certain non-discretionary costs are reorganized under other headings (military pensions for instance). They also include the numbers for Social Security under pensions which incorrectly reduces the other numbers.

Ultimately, the US could reduce defense spending to 20% of its current value and be on par with the next highest spender China. Of the top 15 spenders in defense, none of them are threats to US security. Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan... they aren't even on the list!

I don't have a problem with scrutinizing non-discretionary spending and making cuts where warranted but the biggest possible savings will be from defense cuts.

The rich/middle-class question is a little harder because it is so subjective. Living in NYC, I probably have a different view than someone in middle America. But I don't think anyone would doubt that someone making $1M or more is in the rich category. I would tend to put the boundary between top of middle class and bottom of rich somewhere between 500k & 1M.
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

I think defense spending is an easy target as you suggest. However, there are easy targets in non-discretionary spending as well, but most people are afraid of impacting social programs. Threats to our national security involve more than just the military might of our potential adversaries. Having said that, I believe our nation still has a way to go to transition out of the "Cold War, force on force" mentality.
said by CXM_Splicer:

The rich/middle-class question is a little harder because it is so subjective. Living in NYC, I probably have a different view than someone in middle America.

Thank you being for realistic and not simply repeating the "$250K" or "top 1%" rhetoric. You wisely acknowledge that income tends to be relative to location and you can't easily assume that a person earning more than an arbitrary threshold is rich. I'm still curious as to how you determine that the a majority of tax revenue comes from the middle class.
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Return it to the treasury

quote:
I'm still curious as to how you determine that the a majority of tax revenue comes from the middle class.

While I dislike the 1% figure too, most of the data available has been formatted to it. For 2009, the top 1% ($343k cutoff) paid 36.7% of income tax collected. The next group, .1% (with a $1.4M cutoff) paid only 17.1 % of income tax collected. With my cutoff of 'middle class' somewhere between them, it is obvious that the 'rich' paid less than 1/2 of income tax collected.

Of course, these figures include the bottom 50% of tax payers (cutoff $32k) which throws the percentages off due to the sheer number of 'poor' people.

The average tax rate is also very telling... the tax rate of the top 5% is 20.46%, the top 1% is 24.01%, the top .1% is 24.28%. Does that seem very 'progressive' to you? It doesn't to me.

These numbers don't include FICA which (technically speaking) is not a tax. If you do include it, it shifts even more of the burden on to the middle class since it is a deductible expense when paid by the employer (not to mention that it is capped) but not deductible to the employee.

Factor in the corporate portion of income tax collected (only 9% for 2010) and it is quite obvious that the majority of tax is paid by the middle class... this includes small business (encouraged not discouraged. (And I don't mean that the new tax loophole should be for large business to divide into thousands of smaller businesses.) Why they bear such a proportionally large burden of the taxes while large & behemoth business gets the breaks is beyond me.

»taxfoundation.org/article/summar···x-data-0
openbox9
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Re: Return it to the treasury

said by CXM_Splicer:

While I dislike the 1% figure too, most of the data available has been formatted to it. For 2009, the top 1% ($343k cutoff) paid 36.7% of income tax collected. The next group, .1% (with a $1.4M cutoff) paid only 17.1 % of income tax collected. With my cutoff of 'middle class' somewhere between them, it is obvious that the 'rich' paid less than 1/2 of income tax collected.

Of course, these figures include the bottom 50% of tax payers (cutoff $32k) which throws the percentages off due to the sheer number of 'poor' people.

What about the almost fifty percent that pay zero federal income taxes? Don't they distort the numbers too? (They aren't just the poor or middle class either)
said by CXM_Splicer:

The average tax rate is also very telling... the tax rate of the top 5% is 20.46%, the top 1% is 24.01%, the top .1% is 24.28%. Does that seem very 'progressive' to you? It doesn't to me.

Not really, then again, I'm not necessarily sold on progressive tax structures.
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Return it to the treasury

quote:
What about the almost fifty percent that pay zero federal income taxes? Don't they distort the numbers too? (They aren't just the poor or middle class either)

Yes, those are who I meant. I should have said tax 'filers' since most don't pay any tax. It obviously depends on the particular situation, there are many different stories in that 50%. Some should be paying a lot, some rightfully shouldn't pay anything.

LightS
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Greenville, TX
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Put the money to good use...

I think they should get DSL or Coax to everyone, especially rural areas / people "just outside" of the service area.

Too many people can't get broadband, and getting 1.5Mbps DSL would be a godsend compared to satellite or dial up service..

It may not be the fastest, but it sure is better than nill!
decifal

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I

I wanna see unmaintained areas of ATT taken from em and dissolved.. They have had too long of a time to build out, with or without usf funds.. Obviously this company is done with land lines.. Lets let smaller startups take over and help the country move on and catch up with broadband penetration already.. ATT is not going to do it, all they seem to do is put up roadblocks for others to even attempt it..

SECraft

@bellsouth.com

Re: I

So what you are clamoring for is the federal government actually taking property from a private company and redistributing it to whomever they feel is worthy? That's a dangerous and very slippery slope you've proposed there, where does it end?

And to your statement, there are no "unmaintained" areas of AT&T. The federal, local, and state governments regulate large portions of all ILEC's business, including service areas.

The real truth is this, companies like AT&T and Verizon are not expanding DSL service, even with money from the federal government, is that the subsidy would not cover near the cost of providing and maintaining the service. Instead, they have chosen to build out wireless broadband networks that will cost less per user. As private companies, they have a right to create the best business model for them. I'll put it this way, I live in a rural area. The nearest Target store to me is almost 50 miles away. I can get the same items by going to 2-3 different, smaller stores in the area, it just isn't convenient. Do I start raising cain with the state/federal government because I want a Target nearby? No, and I understand why Target isn't closer, there isn't enough of a population base here to justify the cost. There are other options for service, just because I would prefer another option to what I have doesn't mean I'm being hosed. And by the way, those types of businesses get incentives (tax breaks, grants, etc.)to build in low income, rural areas as well, but it doesn't mean they will build one everywhere, just where the need and cost/benifit are lined up.

Alex J

@ecatel.net

Re: I

The real truth is this, companies like AT&T and Verizon are not expanding DSL service, even with money from the federal government, is that the subsidy would not cover near the cost of providing and maintaining the service.

You, and others in this thread, seem to forget that these telcos have been delivered TENS OF BILLIONS in subsidies over the last thirty years for services often never delivered. If you calculated the subsidies handed out to U.S. telcos, you could probably wire the country six times over with fiber to the home. People should be very concerned that these companies are now turning their back completely on this infrastructure. In fact, they're just letting those users flee to cable, creating a massive monopoly.

There needs to be more solutions than "gosh, shucks, well what can AT&T and Verizon do, they'e just trying to earn a meager living." They have sucked BILLIONS from this nation.

tshirt
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1 edit

Re: I

said by Alex J. :

] If you calculated the subsidies handed out to U.S. telcos, you could probably wire the country six times over with fiber to the home. People should be very concerned that these companies are now turning their back completely on this infrastructure. In fact, they're just letting those users flee to cable, creating a massive monopoly.

Maybe it could, but that is not what they were paid to do, specificlly they were paid to develop and maintain a dialtone system, and in the late 40's to the '90's provide hardened telphony backbones between CO's, seperately they (AT&T specifically) built hardened redundant microwave and buried conduits for data links for the military between C&C facilities and assets (missile silo, military bases etc.) a very impressive and expensive system.

Home Broadband as a service is fairly new 10-15 and only very recently has the federal gov't considered shifting funding from dial tone to broadband.
The point being if you hired someone to very specifically build and maintain a basic FENCE for the last hundred years, you should not now expect if to be a brick wall, and if you now want a brick wall it will likely cost a lot more to build and maintain, and the fence guy isn't going to do it free just because you changed your mind.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

LTE wins!

AT&T and Verizon are wise to avoid bedding down with the government, committing to maintain long copper loops in rural settings at below-market rates.

LTE will provide a much faster connection at a lower internal ost without the labor headaches.

See 14 replies to this post
cooperaaaron

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Joliet, IL
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In my opinion...

Most places that have electric lines that run to them should be able to have some sort of internet access, that is, if someone can hang some wire on poles to get lines to people's homes, then someone should look at it, otherwise let the private or public entities get internet to the people if the big companies don't think it is worth it...
silbaco

join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: In my opinion...

said by cooperaaaron:

Most places that have electric lines that run to them should be able to have some sort of internet access, that is, if someone can hang some wire on poles to get lines to people's homes, then someone should look at it, otherwise let the private or public entities get internet to the people if the big companies don't think it is worth it...

It takes a lot of money to get started up. I am all for starting up new companies, but even wISPs have a high startup cost. Getting affordable backhaul isn't very easy in rural areas either.
dplantz

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Re: In my opinion...

I would like to see the US build a national fiber to the premise network. It would be installed by gov contractors. The gov would own the system. It would connect all homes and businesses that can get wired electric services. The fiber would be leased to multiple service providers and maintained by a new national telecom agency. This would mirror on a national scale what Utah has done with utopia. This would cost 300-600 billion to build, but it would provide a network that serves all and lasts for at least 100 years. After its built the old rotting coper pots network can be eliminated. In Australia they are doing just what I am suggesting. It would put a ton of people to work for sure.

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