With the FCC finally poised to vote on new rules for the use of unlicensed "white space" spectrum for broadband on September 23, the agency has ramped up a PR campaign to sell the idea. "We’re going to do something big here," FCC boss Julius Genachowski tells Bloomberg News. Well, hopefully. The vote of course needs to pass, and then the idea still has to navigate a gauntlet of some very wealthy opponents like AT&T and Verizon (who don't want any added wireless broadband competition), and the National Association of Broadcasters -- who don't want competing TV options, and claim there will be interference. Of course the white space idea has very wealthy supporters as well, namely Dell, HP, Microsoft and Google.
You can solve the majority of the problems with the white space usage by restricting it to fixed location operations. Fixed Location Wireless Internet Service Providers could obtain licenses to utilize the spaces. They would have the equivalent of licensed broadcast station engineers to be the Point Of Contact for interference issues.
Fixed Location Wireless Internet Service Providers could obtain licenses to utilize the spaces.
I like the idea of licensing white-space use. I don't like the plan till now, that unlicensed use will exist within licensed use, and somehow work itself out through the use of a database documenting where interference "shouldn't" be a problem.
once there are ACTUAL instances of interference after whitespace internet deploys, we can have something to talk about but until then, it's a myth.
Ok so if some ISP decides to offer this service and beause I live in a fringe area thus it will show maybe only one channel in my area even though there are more and the ISP chooses a frequncy that is being used by broadcast I'm supposed to wait until AFTER I'm getting my TV intefered with before comlaining? Yes how many months/years am I going to have to wait for that issue to be solved?
umm i doubt that would happen but lets say it does...which i doubt why do you need tv reception anyway? you ever heard of iptv??????? if you have internet then you have tv too (ANYWHERE) but if you have tv, you don't really get internet:))) see internet anywhere is way more important than TV
once there are ACTUAL instances of interference after whitespace internet deploys, we can have something to talk about but until then, it's a myth.
It's a matter of physics that there will be interference. There are small towns in the desert using 20-foot antennas that are 100 feet off the ground to receive broadcasts from Tucson and Phoenix.
It's just a fact that someone will have to make the determination of what is a "viable" signal, and where white space can be used. It won't be a crisp, black/white equation. Just a matter of how few people will be impacted.
Like my example, some area in the desert will be considered beyond the range of a viable signal. Someone will setup a whitepsace device and interfere with the 50 people who are receiving very week television signals.
There's no reason to wait for that to happen before acknowledging that it *will* happen.
Maybe with analog you could say that, but with OTA DTV either you get the signal 100% perfect or you don't get anything at all. The signal drop out point is very sharp and well defined. There is no issue of someone with "static" getting "more static" to the point of unwatchability.
either you get the signal 100% perfect or you don't get anything at all.
But, it doesn't take 100% signal to get 100% perfect. About 20% signal?
So, I think the principle the same.
With a long enough, tall enough antenna, you could receive sufficient DTV signal in a fringe area that would be unwatchable with normal antennas.
If a whitespace device fires up around that fringe area, it could interfere with the marginal signal that is usable.
I think this boils down to someone having to make a decision about what is a "usable signal" as they geographically define the whitespaces. But, because whitespace will be unlicensed, there won't be any meaningful way to resolve disputes.
either you get the signal 100% perfect or you don't get anything at all.
But, it doesn't take 100% signal to get 100% perfect. About 20% signal?
Maybe my grammer isn't clear. Either your signal is high enough to get the picture, and if you get a picture it will be absolutely perfect, or you don't get any picture at all.
either you get the signal 100% perfect or you don't get anything at all.
But, it doesn't take 100% signal to get 100% perfect. About 20% signal?
Maybe my grammer isn't clear. Either your signal is high enough to get the picture, and if you get a picture it will be absolutely perfect, or you don't get any picture at all.
I understand. I have DTV.
I thought you were saying DTV couldn't be pushed into the "no picture at all" category by interference from whitepsace devices.
It's not a myth; the FCC did extensive testing a few years back. The system will cause interference, not only to over-the-air broadcasts, but to cable TV as well. In spite of negative findings, they are going ahead with it anyway.
Since the switch over to DTV, I can't receive a single channel anyway (I'm one of those huddled masses that still uses an antenna) since I live about 65 miles from the nearest broadcast tower. My only hope is that opening up the white space might create something more useful (to me) than what I'm currently getting - which is nothing.
Since the switch over to DTV, I can't receive a single channel anyway (I'm one of those huddled masses that still uses an antenna) since I live about 65 miles from the nearest broadcast tower. My only hope is that opening up the white space might create something more useful (to me) than what I'm currently getting - which is nothing.
I live 50 miles away and I get perfect reception, which would not be possible if everything was still analog.
Maybe you need to take the antenna out of the attic and put it up on your roof.
With a fairly modest outdoor antenna I am able to pick up two TV stations that are over 125 miles away from each other (KRCB and KSBW/KCBA). What really matters is whether you have a good, clear line of sight or not.
Here in Silicon Valley, there Is. No. White. Space. Every channel is occupied. I'd be surprised if this weren't the case for the top 5 or 6 metropolitan areas (by population), maybe even as many as the top ten. The top ten markets count for something like a fifth of the US population, last I checked.
But the problem is that the occupied channels problem is also one for the adjacent markets, in many cases. The Sacramento/Stockton DMA is also full, as it is adjacent to San Francisco. Los Angeles and San Diego share space as well, not only because of their geographic proximity but even more so because of the Santa Ana weather conditions that lead to frequent tropospheric ducting. Not to mention the fact that San Diego is also adjacent to Tijuana, Mexico, with their own TV stations.
Maybe you can justify technically allocating white space in really out-of-the-way rural localities, but then there aren't going to be a lot of people out there who might be served.
There has to be an adjacent pair of empty TV channels, as I recall. A TV Band Device (real name of white space devices) cannot operate on a channel adjacent to a DTV channel. No room for them in Los Angeles. I know that.
I'm calling BS. TVfool shows vacant channels. I must say there are a lot of channels in use, but 'NO WHITE SPACE' is a lie.
No, it's not. Just because a channel is not in use in the San Francisco DMA, does not mean it's available for use. If it is in use in an adjacent market, then you gets none.
Upon reflection, I do not wish think. My mindless thoughts.
History repeats over and over don't it, it look like we went to work for freedom, 1778 we won freedom, to get away from taxes. But we really was the was for, new rich rulers? We are now taxed by our own government, we controlled by police & nothings free so was it really for? You can choose to live your life like you want but if some else seems to see it it unfit with their opinion then its wrong as it drugs where once all under free market very hard to control and tax and on day a man decided to say this is all bad and from their on it was bad. Now if Joe blow smokes crack but holds job and never robs anyone but the only vice he can afforded in his life that makes him happy is the drug! He still is preconceived as bad and evil person so we must lock him up from stopping him from doing his vice, But drugs its self had major role playing threw out history and not until not has it became bad and of course this is only if your not rich. Anyways since arrest its hard its now harder for him to get a job, ok but he is a crack lets take a lesser evil or so we say. A pot head likes to smoke pot he just got more years then the dude who just killed his children in crazed fit because he had a good lawyer and the pot head had a public defender, also the pot head has a problem like most drug addicts they get pee tested at work, so when they lose their job their life is tarnish. All because of some one Else's opinion effected these issues, yet they could have chose not to do so but people have been doing drugs years before the the birth of Christ, people choose to do drugs but are not allotted, so your not free. They use the drug like many of us on taxable drugs to treat a problem that they have and that's their was of escape bad or not the problems of theft they cause is because if they get pissed tested they get fired. Under a non drug policy working environment most choose not to steal yea they waste their money but who's opinion matters other then the person doing it.... They steal not because of the drug but the system in place. That makes them out cast and just further that cause, if you say don't do it, some ones going to do it. But that's not what this is all about so don't stop here.
I also wander for a day when people need to learn that this all bullshit, This country everything around you is pulled by people have been in very high positions for very long times and their family's will continue to conclude and rule the poor or middle class what ever you want to see your self ass. They talking about selling this new white space, so how did they get to own it in the first place? Welcome to the new lands where the poor don't feel poor so their blinded. But the rich love life but those few who still are on the boarder of middle class and the street pay attention a little more and then at times their is people like me, f**k the FCC. BTW fk rich people and all the greedy people out their, the worlds problem is greed, even when you give shit away for free, like welfare people love to take it but they don't want to do shit for it and they still complain but this will end in this new system. Why can't we have a social order that's truly pure. no more money since well we destroyed that and realistically their is to many people to go back to the gold standard and this current situation allows for people to cuntrol the strings of every part of government with the slightest slowdown of printing of money they could could send us in to a crisis, currently they could make some one rich and no one would even know because they control the strings to every bank in the states, but in this new evolved economy all dept will be erased & everyone will start out as everyone should as equals this is the real fix America needs to be released from dept. Oh no I hear it now a rich person would object right at the idea. But the problem is with the current situation is a old one, the rich get richer the poor get poorer but this time we work as a society. Instead of money let it all be credits you earn, no longer paper but instead plastic. Then make everyone equal everyone in our country could be upper middle class to almost rich of course those who where ultra rich would move down to rich smalling the system and hopefully eliminating the poor, the only way to be poor in this build is to do nothing at all for society but. But with the current balancing its not really right that the ultra rich could still tip the scale among most people in the country that's not a joke that's a reality and needs to be fixed but they would keep all their company's just the slandered of living would raise for all! Anyways everyone must work for credits, no matter what job you do you will earn credits working on roads working on what ever but you must work to earn credits, credits is what will keep us some what even as a nothing and keeping wealth distributed everything will be purchased using credits buy both food and stuff if your disabled you can still help in small ways but of course you may need some need some type of help, but the system needs to make sure their is no one one able to abuse the system anything, if you can sweet side walks for your community their was way of earning extra credits, Schools would be free you just need to apply your self. But we must not lower the standards of Knowledge ever their will never be a excuse to do so, if you want the better school you must study and earn it their will be no special exceptions for no one! Also Library's should take a higher importance books from all ages will need to be eventually stored on computers allot library's would then to have access to any type of literature from any century yea this would take years but it can be done. I'm talking about making the rarest books in the world available on a maga scale and one day we could preserve all books for ever, eventually libary shelves will be full of tablet that would allot you to simply slide it out and search the datebase for you content and then trad saving paper. The problem with society is greed it would need to be taught out of society before we can ever succeed as a single planet we should be working on ways to unite the human race, thousands of years and all we have done is unleashed war, and more war..... we should be further ahead then this we should have already had a base on the moon to further exploration! One thing we do know is us man has a drive to explore for what ever reason and we need to keep following that main erge if we could work to gather as a single race human, we just might survive but doing nothing is a guaranteed disaster for such a evolved people as us. Their is chances mars could have been just like here on earth their is signs but thing in comen threat people do not think about is the deserts, it could have been the same thing that destroy planets before us and we know as it spreads its doing the same to our earth the sun from sand can make it no longer rain it can stop any weather at all from happening yet no one looks at this problem but i belive this is how mars went. if anyone wants to talk one on one with me about my thoughts of a new way please email me Bobbyspicer@gmail.com I feel we are a failed race, some people more then others some how evolved quicker then anything else on this earth.... nothing like it before....... its as if one time their was just a jump threw time and we evolved but only us.. how could we evolve so past ever other creaturel
sorry for any typos, feel free to email me or ridicule me. Anyways my thoughts sound better when talking not typeing so don't take all of this two serious but i'm just seeing problems and sooner or later its going to come to a major back lash and well its ok to bail out the banks the rich people, but people losing their home all well, people who are smutherd in bills all welll...... just like always the rich for the rich and always the rich, btw middle class people your not middle class you more like well living poors with good lives or something this is how this country works tell me if you still think your in the middle
The Poor (Hundreds and Thousands) all estimated 6% == The Middle Class (Multiple Thousands) about 40% Their children like to hide in this tax bracket anways these are all just guesses but it shows middle is not really middle when you think about it ==== The Upper Middle Class ======(Multiple Thousands to hundreds of thousands) 20% * The Rich ====================(Million's to Multi Millions) 19% * The Middle Rich ==============================(Million's to Hundred of Millions) 14%
The other problem is some of these dudes know how to hide thier money so some of these people with endless type money can make thier self look like on of the stars
The rich rich of america, you should see that chart people this rich is rediculas really ================================================================================== ================================================================================== ================================================================================== ================================================================================== ================================================================================== ========== Hundreds of Billions not to mention if needed liquidated up in the trillions
Sorry for going in to a rant on like this its just I feel fed up with life some times, i know it could be fix but people are two dumb to fix it and i Can't understand how people can't see threw shit like i can, or may be I'm wrong idk, i found only few others who think like me. so anyone can read any of my ramblings feel free to write
Re: Upon reflection, I do not wish think. My mindless thoughts.
History repeats over and over don't it, it look like we went to work for freedom, 1778 we won freedom, to get away from taxes. But we really was the was for, new rich rulers? We are now taxed by our own government, we controlled by police & nothings free so was it really for? You can choose to live your life like you want but if some else seems to see it it unfit with their opinion then its wrong as it drugs where once all under free market very hard to control and tax and on day a man decided to say this is all bad and from their on it was bad. Now if Joe blow smokes crack but holds job and never robs anyone but the only vice he can afforded in his life that makes him happy is the drug! He still is preconceived as bad and evil person so we must lock him up from stopping him from doing his vice, But drugs its self had major role playing threw out history and not until not has it became bad and of course this is only if your not rich. Anyways since arrest its hard its now harder for him to get a job, ok but he is a crack lets take a lesser evil or so we say. A pot head likes to smoke pot he just got more years then the dude who just killed his children in crazed fit because he had a good lawyer and the pot head had a public defender, also the pot head has a problem like most drug addicts they get pee tested at work, so when they lose their job their life is tarnish. All because of some one Else's opinion effected these issues, yet they could have chose not to do so but people have been doing drugs years before the the birth of Christ, people choose to do drugs but are not allotted, so your not free. They use the drug like many of us on taxable drugs to treat a problem that they have and that's their was of escape bad or not the problems of theft they cause is because if they get pissed tested they get fired. Under a non drug policy working environment most choose not to steal yea they waste their money but who's opinion matters other then the person doing it.... They steal not because of the drug but the system in place. That makes them out cast and just further that cause, if you say don't do it, some ones going to do it. But that's not what this is all about so don't stop here.
I also wander for a day when people need to learn that this all bullshit, This country everything around you is pulled by people have been in very high positions for very long times and their family's will continue to conclude and rule the poor or middle class what ever you want to see your self ass. They talking about selling this new white space, so how did they get to own it in the first place? Welcome to the new lands where the poor don't feel poor so their blinded. But the rich love life but those few who still are on the boarder of middle class and the street pay attention a little more and then at times their is people like me, f**k the FCC. BTW fk rich people and all the greedy people out their, the worlds problem is greed, even when you give shit away for free, like welfare people love to take it but they don't want to do shit for it and they still complain but this will end in this new system. Why can't we have a social order that's truly pure. no more money since well we destroyed that and realistically their is to many people to go back to the gold standard and this current situation allows for people to cuntrol the strings of every part of government with the slightest slowdown of printing of money they could could send us in to a crisis, currently they could make some one rich and no one would even know because they control the strings to every bank in the states, but in this new evolved economy all dept will be erased & everyone will start out as everyone should as equals this is the real fix America needs to be released from dept. Oh no I hear it now a rich person would object right at the idea. But the problem is with the current situation is a old one, the rich get richer the poor get poorer but this time we work as a society. Instead of money let it all be credits you earn, no longer paper but instead plastic. Then make everyone equal everyone in our country could be upper middle class to almost rich of course those who where ultra rich would move down to rich smalling the system and hopefully eliminating the poor, the only way to be poor in this build is to do nothing at all for society but. But with the current balancing its not really right that the ultra rich could still tip the scale among most people in the country that's not a joke that's a reality and needs to be fixed but they would keep all their company's just the slandered of living would raise for all! Anyways everyone must work for credits, no matter what job you do you will earn credits working on roads working on what ever but you must work to earn credits, credits is what will keep us some what even as a nothing and keeping wealth distributed everything will be purchased using credits buy both food and stuff if your disabled you can still help in small ways but of course you may need some need some type of help, but the system needs to make sure their is no one one able to abuse the system anything, if you can sweet side walks for your community their was way of earning extra credits, Schools would be free you just need to apply your self. But we must not lower the standards of Knowledge ever their will never be a excuse to do so, if you want the better school you must study and earn it their will be no special exceptions for no one! Also Library's should take a higher importance books from all ages will need to be eventually stored on computers allot library's would then to have access to any type of literature from any century yea this would take years but it can be done. I'm talking about making the rarest books in the world available on a mega scale and one day we could preserve all books for ever, eventually library shelves will be full of tablet that would allot you to simply slide it out and search the database for you content and then trad saving paper. The problem with society is greed it would need to be taught out of society before we can ever succeed as a single planet we should be working on ways to unite the human race, thousands of years and all we have done is unleashed war, and more war..... we should be further ahead then this we should have already had a base on the moon to further exploration! One thing we do know is us man has a drive to explore for what ever reason and we need to keep following that main urge if we could work to gather as a single race human, we just might survive but doing nothing is a guaranteed disaster for such a evolved people as us. Their is chances mars could have been just like here on earth their is signs but thing in common threat people do not think about is the deserts, it could have been the same thing that destroy planets before us and we know as it spreads its doing the same to our earth the sun from sand can make it no longer rain it can stop any weather at all from happening yet no one looks at this problem but i believe this is how mars went. if anyone wants to talk one on one with me about my thoughts of a new way please email me Bobbyspicer@gmail.com I feel we are a failed race, some people more then others some how evolved quicker then anything else on this earth.... nothing like it before....... its as if one time their was just a jump threw time and we evolved but only us.. how could we evolve so past ever other creatures
sorry for any typos, feel free to email me or ridicule me.
Sorry for going in to a rant on like this its just I feel fed up with life some times, i know it could be fix but people are two dumb to fix it and i Can't understand how people can't see threw shit like i can, or may be I'm wrong idk, i found only few others who think like me. so anyone can read any of my ramblings feel free to write
From a 40 year Ham radio veteran, unlicensed ANY space is BS
I have seen many great working laws go to the way side for the sake of the all mighty dollar. With out going in to the technical issues ANY and ALL air space has for many years been license's and well thought out by way of license, band width, distance,rated power, and very much more. ( ie. for many years any 2 transmitter's had to be a certain distance and designated power all handle by a firm hand of a frequency coordinator) to prevent problems. It hasent been but a couple of years ago the FCC said that TV stations had to go digitial so as the air space can be used by Fire, rescue, police and the likes yet in reality it went to the internet. In the mean time something no one wants to talk about is human lives are being lost do to the fact digitial isn't even ready for critical communications systems. Broken and "Drop" transmission are causing mass confusion for First responders and fire fighters as well as others. If you think I dont have a clue as to the real world go find out for your self " WHY does ALL air craft still use analog A radio as there primary voice communication". IT SAVES LIVES. If you take the time to check it out for your self you would understand much better as to the size of the major over push to digitial has been and most likely will be.
I think this is all for the better. Things cannot stay the same forever and things do improve over time. People would be more likely to pickup a local internet provider than a local station. They can use the internet to stream the content from their local stations. If there was a big problem with whitespaces or if they would wise up, they could work together for solutions. The local stations have subchannels and if they do not use them then that is space that may be used to provide broadband. Some of these local stations themselves may want to offer a broadband solution. If they charge for the internet service then they could allow free access only to the websites of those local tv stations and links to streaming of the television stations on each channel that gets lit up or perhaps one streaming station on each channel that lights up or divide among them.
