 nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| what about VOIP? the FCC has just requested that an appeals court dismiss the rules approved in November.
are these the same rules that cover VOIP? The FCC was awfully anxious to jump all over VOIP where E911 was concerned - where's the same level of concern for the cell carriers?
oh, I forgot, that's telcos, Martin's buddies. | |
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Lets Golf
Premium
join:2006-01-05
Davenport, FL | Re: what about VOIP? or maybe it's because VOIP is seen as a landline and has been marketed as a replacement for your POTS. Cell phones are mobile, and therefore less emphasis was applied to them in their infant years. | |
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| | Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: what about VOIP? That's true for cable VoIP, which tends to come with the full E911 capabilities that traditional landlines do (I know Comcast does).
However other VoIP companies allow you to use your phone from anywhere there's an internet connection. Some allow you to get a number from outside your geographical area code. All of these mess with the E911 service and can result in your call going to the wrong call center or in emergency services getting dispatched to the wrong place.
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"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." | |
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: what about VOIP? said by Corydon  :...However other VoIP companies allow you to use your phone from anywhere there's an internet connection. Some allow you to get a number from outside your geographical area code. All of these mess with the E911 service and can result in your call going to the wrong call center or in emergency services getting dispatched to the wrong place. it was this feature that the FCC jumped on in particular to make sure VOIP providers accounted for - this is very comparable to the cell phone issue, but cell carriers are getting a pass now, VOIP got beat all to hell about it. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Dumb
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greendragon
Premium
join:2003-09-20
Stewartville, MN | Re: Dumb You can call 911 from your cell phone right??
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Folding for our future!! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Dumb said by greendragon :You can call 911 from your cell phone right?? I've done it a few times.
If we are being required to pay for 911 service on our cell phone bills, then it is only reasonable to expect that it should work as best as it can, and that the technology will continue to improve over time, just as it has with landline 911.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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greendragon
Premium
join:2003-09-20
Stewartville, MN
| Re: Dumb While I don't exactly know what the 911 charge goes to pay, I could guess that there are a lot of salaries to be paid and current technology to be kept up.
If we want more from our E911 service then I think we shouldn't be asking "then why am I paying a fee", but rather we should be asking how much more we would need to spend to get the service we want.
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Folding for our future!! | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Re: Dumb It works flawlessly where I'm at...even switching between municipalities. I hope I'm not the exception!
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The "Lifetime" channel is responsible for 83% of all divorces...Robert Ginty | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| said by greendragon :You can call 911 from your cell phone right?? Yes, nine one one works beautifully during ordinary circumstances. However, the nanosecond there is any kind of natural disturbance, my cell phone service quits working and I'm shit outta luck with emergency services. Case in point: the EQ So Cal had on July 29, 2008. It was originally graded a 5.4 on the Richter, then the USGS downgraded to a 5.2, but the fact remained, although no lives were lost and multi billion dollar damages to the infrastructure was incurred -this time- I couldn't have called nine one one on the cell phone. So much for that service, eh?
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: Dumb That a limitation of the network. That's standard and has been so forever. The same thing can happen with POTS if the demand exceeds the capacity...which could be possible in a large disaster area. | |
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| | | | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Dumb said by wifi4milez :said by major marco :Yes, nine one one works beautifully during ordinary circumstances. However, the nanosecond there is any kind of natural disturbance, my cell phone service quits working and I'm shit outta luck with emergency services. What you are describing has nothing to do with E911. E911 was designed to allow emergency operators to locate a phone that dials 911 so they know where to send the first responders. What happened in your case was that when the EQ hit a few hundred thousand (maybe even over a million) people started dialing on their cell phones, and the towers and "cellular" networks got overloaded. E911 wont fix that issue, and realistically there is no way of fixing that issue. I'm not convinced E911 is strictly about locating First Responders. This paper elaborates and fully discusses the issue much better than "Kathyrn V"'s analysis above. Registration is free as is the paper itself. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Re: Dumb said by SilverSurfer :said by wifi4milez :said by major marco :Yes, nine one one works beautifully during ordinary circumstances. However, the nanosecond there is any kind of natural disturbance, my cell phone service quits working and I'm shit outta luck with emergency services. What you are describing has nothing to do with E911. E911 was designed to allow emergency operators to locate a phone that dials 911 so they know where to send the first responders. What happened in your case was that when the EQ hit a few hundred thousand (maybe even over a million) people started dialing on their cell phones, and the towers and "cellular" networks got overloaded. E911 wont fix that issue, and realistically there is no way of fixing that issue. I'm not convinced E911 is strictly about locating First Responders. This paper elaborates and fully discusses the issue much better than "Kathyrn V"'s analysis above. Registration is free as is the paper itself. Thats an incorrect assessment. E911 is used for one purpose, and one purpose only. It's sole purpose is to locate callers (geographically) so that first responders can find them in the event that they are incapacitated and can not speak or otherwise communicate with the operator. When dialing from a landline, E911 communicates the callers address to the nearest PSAP (public safety answering point. This allows the dispatcher to visually see what kinds of first responders are in closest proximity to the caller, and to subsequently dispatch them. Wireless E911 on the other hand, works a little differently. Given that you are calling from a mobile phone, that number (obviously) isnt tied to a physical address. In this case it is done using one (or more) forms of radiolocation to pinpoint the user. It has been a federal requirement that all handsets produced in recent years allow for radiolocation, most commonly in the form of GPS. Contrary to what most people believe, almost all newer phones have a GPS receiver in them just for this purpose (and no, you cant hack it to give you directions!). If the phone doesnt have GPS, the PSAP can triangulate your location based on the AoA (angle of arrival) that they determine when comparing the signal (to you) from at least two different cell towers. The other common method of locating a caller using E911 is TDOA (time difference of arrival). This method basically figures out your location based on the time it takes your phone to communicate with nearby towers.
The bottom line is that its pretty crazy how accurate E911 is, and most people dont even realize they can/are/will be tracked (and located) if they dial 911 from their cell phone!
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
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HardwareGeek
join:2003-11-15
Brooklyn, NY
| said by major marco :said by greendragon :You can call 911 from your cell phone right?? Yes, nine one one works beautifully during ordinary circumstances. However, the nanosecond there is any kind of natural disturbance, my cell phone service quits working and I'm shit outta luck with emergency services. Case in point: the EQ So Cal had on July 29, 2008. It was originally graded a 5.4 on the Richter, then the USGS downgraded to a 5.2, but the fact remained, although no lives were lost and multi billion dollar damages to the infrastructure was incurred -this time- I couldn't have called nine one one on the cell phone. So much for that service, eh? said by major marco :said by greendragon :You can call 911 from your cell phone right?? Yes, nine one one works beautifully during ordinary circumstances. However, the nanosecond there is any kind of natural disturbance, my cell phone service quits working and I'm shit outta luck with emergency services. Case in point: the EQ So Cal had on July 29, 2008. It was originally graded a 5.4 on the Richter, then the USGS downgraded to a 5.2, but the fact remained, although no lives were lost and multi billion dollar damages to the infrastructure was incurred -this time- I couldn't have called nine one one on the cell phone. So much for that service, eh? I know a bunch of people who couldn't call 911 from their landline either o your argument isn't valid. | |
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ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN | FCC on the clock If the FCC wants something that means there working for corp. not public. | |
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hroo772
Darkness Fears Me
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Mclean, VA
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
| What BS As a part of strengthing E911 on cellphones, the gov required all cell phone carriers to only sell phones with gps or location abilities in them for E911. Since this has been in place and there is a way to get the location data, I don't see why it's so hard to stick to what they already started. | |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
edit:
August 8th, @01:58PM
| Re: What BS That and a couple of other reasons are why I hold onto POTS - with 2 kids under the age of 6 - it is just too important to hope E911 works properly. | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: What BS telco is aware of this and hoping to milk POTS for many more years... | |
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gpscell911
@census.gov
| I do not get it either.... more and more cells are coming with GPS navigation.... if they cell can point and guide you what is so hard .... it should be better than traditional ones which is based in address only. with gps you could be in the woods and you can still be located. | |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Re: What BS As long as there is a cell tower nearby... lots of places still do not have great coverage. | |
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Bobcat
Volvo sucks
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | Clear need? I disagree. | |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25 | Is it just me... or does the article seem to, if not agree, then not disagree (double negative, I know, sometimes it's deserved here) with Kevin Martin and the FCC? | |
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| 8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: Is it just me... Even when they are able to reliably locate a 911 cell phone caller, it won't do much good if they don't fix the rest of problems plaguing the 911 system in most cities. During some peak times in many cities, there can be a 15 minute or longer hold time before a 911 caller is connected to an operator.
There are too many non-emergency calls to 911 and not enough operators to handle them all. The police and cities are partly to blame because they used to tell everyone to call 911 for almost everything in the early years, and people got used to using 911 for other police and city business.
It will be difficult to change people's behavior now, unless they start fining people who continue to use 911 for non-emergency calls and do a better job of publicizing the non-emergency numbers. Maybe the new 311 number will help. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Is it just me... said by 8744675 :It will be difficult to change people's behavior now, unless they start fining people who continue to use 911 for non-emergency calls and do a better job of publicizing the non-emergency numbers. Maybe the new 311 number will help. It is already illegal to call 911 for non-emergency reasons (aside from testing). These laws simply need to be enforced.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20
edit:
August 8th, @01:29PM
| and a lady in Atlanta dies.... »foxlocal.proteus.com/content.htm···Id=77802
911 Director Rocky Moore says the 911 operator misheard the address Dukes gave and sent City of Atlanta Fire and Grady EMS to Wells Street in Atlanta when Dukes was actually at home on Wales Street in Johns Creek, north of Atlanta...
Fulton County Emergency Services said the dispatch screen showed the call came from a cell phone in Johns Creek. | |
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FCC Asks Appeals Court to Dismiss E911 Rules
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