 nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| the future of U.S. broadband wow, the market is great isn't it - they seem to have decided that FTTH just isn't right for the U.S. Of course, the market is always right.
poor Verizon, I guess they'll be going out of business soon because they're wasting their money on fiber. | |
|
 | 
tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
| Re: the future of U.S. broadband said by nasadude  :... they seem to have decided that FTTH just isn't right for the U.S. Of course, the market is always right. Ummmm, maybe.
The market is right, if you have the financing to invest in FTTH (neither Qwest nor Sprint do)and you can afford to wait for the payback (neither Qwest nor Sprint can)
ADSL can fill-in some gaps, for a while anyway, and is quick and fairly cheap to deploy. | |
|
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | waterfalls DSL will run out of steam soon. Once cable footprints fully utilize docsis 2... DSL will be obsolete. I'm sure speakeasy, covad, and earthlink are heading for the junkyard as fiber and cable encroach their footprint. Embarq's days are numbered. | |
|
| 
digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533 | Re: waterfalls Don't you mean v3? | |
|
| | |
lostinthewest
@QWEST.NET | Aw Come on
The automobile (fill in ftth) will never take off. Why when you all already have a horse (fill in copper pair). | |
|
|
lostintheeast
@pacbell.net
| Re: Aw Come on said by lostinthewest :
The automobile (fill in ftth) will never take off. Why when you all already have a horse (fill in copper pair).
lol, I agree.  | |
|
| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | So you believe that in the late 1800s it would have been economically feasible and worthwhile to produce a 70mph roadster? | |
|
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Aw Come on said by bogey780 :So you believe that in the late 1800s it would have been economically feasible and worthwhile to produce a 70mph roadster? No but a 40 mph roadster would have been great. oh wait people of the times said no one would ever need an auto too.
Oh my the world is a changing.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Aw Come on But even then with the lack of roadways, gas stations, and the cheapness of a horse...why pour a huge amount of money into making them? | |
|
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | Re: Aw Come on natural progress. The fact that what was a luxury before has become a standard part of life. | |
|
| | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Aw Come on Well why not invest in dropping 100GB feeds to every house? Economies of scale and ROI just don't disappear instantly based upon a fraction of the market. | |
|
| | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Aw Come on If that is the case then why did we even bother bringing broadband to the world ? Or telephone service to all.
Now your arguing on a different scale. Hows it said ? Rome wasn't built in a day ? Jumping ahead like that isn't really a progression as much as it is pushing the boundaries. There is no reason to push the boundaries that far. It's not proven yet. I would be all for pushing gig fiber to peoples homes. It would drastically bring down costs and provide a uniform environment for development of our country.
It's like asking why not give every one a porsche. That is pushing it. Copper has it's limits and people are starting to hit them. the next progression has to be fiber. The costs are going to be to high to keep copper on the poles. Thieves and maintenance are the biggest costs.
If you look at what our country has become you will notice we are not developing new technology , we are merely tweaking what we already had. It doesn't help push us forward in natural progression if we don't keep on innovating. FTTH is a progression but not a break through , just like the change from horses to autos , that was not a huge breakthrough but a tweaking of what we had.
We just really need to realize we need subsidies or a nationwide network that will support our nations need for both information and entertainment.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
| | | | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| Re: Aw Come on So you're saying that we shouldn't allow the natural demand or edonomy push out the product but we need to spend way more than we really should to guarantee that it gets done. Like building a 70mph roadster in the 1800s.
None of these companies are saying that they'll always run copper. Just that they'll run less.
And besides, Americans cheered in the 1980s when the world's best telecom network got put on cruise control. So we're getting right now everything we demanded. | |
|
| | | | | | | | 
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Aw Come on said by bogey780 :So you're saying that we shouldn't allow the natural demand or edonomy push out the product but we need to spend way more than we really should to guarantee that it gets done. I do not think that is a good analogy.
There are times market forces are effective. In that case there is no reason for government to interfere.
There are other times market forces are not viable. In that case government steps in and changes the rules in an attempt to maximize to public good.
Examples of the latter are initial creation of the Internet. It was very risky, the incumbent AT&T had no interest in creating a potential competitor. Another example was rural electrification in the 1930's. Federal government stepped in to address markets not deemed profitable enough for private enterprise.
These calls are never black or white, but always shades of grey.
/tom | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | 
old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."
join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD
| said by BosstonesOwn :We just really need to realize we need subsidies Are you footing the bill for these (ahem) subsidies?
Will they be anything like the subsidies, i.e., kickbacks companies like ADM are getting for ethanol production?. Curious minds want to know. 
--
"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..." | |
|
| | | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Aw Come on said by old_dawg :said by BosstonesOwn :We just really need to realize we need subsidies Are you footing the bill for these (ahem) subsidies? Will they be anything like the subsidies, i.e., kickbacks companies like ADM are getting for ethanol production?. Curious minds want to know. Define subsidies and define scumbags.
First off this nation pays people not to grow crops at times. Sorry but that is just not right , if we would stop doing this and stop just giving out money like we are , we could be ok. Growing excessive amounts of corn for ethanol production would be a better idea.
I hate hand outs , but its government needs to be run more like a business , not a welfare line. Give out tax breaks to the companies producing fiber , and the companies laying it. Not the telco's. I want the government to own the lines not the telco's. I want things in place so the normal people in the country can see what the government is doing to these lines.
I want the country to actually lease carriage rights to the providers who want to provide us with bandwidth and such. To help pay off the lines and help pay maintenance , and other things which may come up. Who knows maybe then profit could be funneled into things we need like say healthcare or bridge building , or maybe even servicing rural areas with fiber , you know the things that could benefit society as a whole , not just the share holders of 1 company ?
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
| |
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by bogey780 :So you believe that in the late 1800s it would have been economically feasible and worthwhile to produce a 70mph roadster? There are lots of risks being too early to market and there are also lots more being too late.
Seems to me Fiber is more mature then Automobiles were in at the turn of 2oth century. Cost per residence passed is pretty low. It is already cost effective in greenfield sites. The difficulty for Telcos is deciding when to transition from copper to fiber outside plant.
The downside risk of not building out with fiber is severe as first player in the market will most likely dominate it. Cost is high enough to discourage second and third entrants into a particular market.
/tom | |
|
| | | MichaelWacey
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Comcast
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Aw Come on said by tschmidt :said by bogey780 :So you believe that in the late 1800s it would have been economically feasible and worthwhile to produce a 70mph roadster? There are lots of risks being too early to market and there are also lots more being too late. Seems to me Fiber is more mature then Automobiles were in at the turn of 2oth century. Cost per residence passed is pretty low. It is already cost effective in greenfield sites. The difficulty for Telcos is deciding when to transition from copper to fiber outside plant. The downside risk of not building out with fiber is severe as first player in the market will most likely dominate it. Cost is high enough to discourage second and third entrants into a particular market. /tom The telecom industry has used Fibre to connect central offices since the mid 1980's. The technology is well understood and stable. The only reason to not do it is that it costs investors now for a payoff in the future. Without competion (or government subsidy) FTTH would never happen. Verizon has done it because of competion from Cable. I am lucky to live in a Verizon area that has FiOS. | |
|
| |
| 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Maybe better:
Why should we build an interstate system of roadways? We have plenty of dirt tracks for those automobiles to use....
Kinda like, "We don't need Telephones, we have the Telegraph already..." | |
|
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| They may be waiting for prices to come down... ...which in both Qwest's and Embarq's situations, makes good business sense. Neither is small enough to get much, if any USF money, and are to spread out (rural) to pay for it themselves. Qwest is doing some fiber to the node stuff (Qwest appeares to be installing fttn in Boise, as a local example), and may be the backbone for some kind of fttp in the future. So while I consider it unfortunate that these 2 companies will not try the TV game for now, it still may happen down the road. | |
|
| travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Albuquerque, NM
| Re: They may be waiting for prices to come down... said by viperlmw :Qwest appeares to be installing fttn in Boise, as a local example And in Albuquerque and a few other cities... Haven't seen any public statements on availability to the general public though. | |
|
fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | Distance Does anyone of these business' neglect to see the DISTANCE LIMIT of DSL as an issue?
I Have not been able to get DSL - in 6 houses, 6 towns. They aren't neighboring towns, either. | |
|
|
| ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
·RCN CABLE
| Re: Rural said by Hazy Arc :After all, we have people living in rural areas who would pay an arm and a leg for 512kbps DSL while we are here bickering about fiber and 10mbps DSL not being fast enough. You have a good point, I believe verizon also can see that customer satisfaction with Comcast & At&t is not good and it is not getting any better. If Verizon can build and penetrate key urban areas quickly enough they will definitely put a hurting on the big guys. I for one will switch the moment it is available in my neighborhood, if prices are reasonable and there is no ridiculous fine print in TOS attached to the service. | |
|
| BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Hazy Arc :After all, we have people living in rural areas who would pay an arm and a leg for 512kbps DSL while we are here bickering about fiber and 10mbps DSL not being fast enough. But ISPs don't want to provide those people with services. | |
|
| 
nobody
join:2001-01-30
Mayer, MN
| What happens when 4G operators decide to provide basic coverage out in those areas? WiMAX (and LTE once it is available) seems to be the real solution for last mile rural access. However neither Embarq or Qwest have spectrum to deploy unless they go with unlicenced bands. Sprint does but they look to b e deploying in cities first where they can take advantage of multipath to compete with cable speeds. | |
|
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| sigh "We have our new portal.."
As soon as I read this I know this guy doesn't have a clue.
" we migrated to that includes our video store with 5000 movies, 5000 music videos and 1000 television episodes that our customers can pull down over the 10-Meg pipe."
So and ther are lots of other places I can get that stuff over your pipe too.
"There is a newer generation of customers that wants to see something when they want to see it.”
So? what does that have to do with you not wanting to provide higher than 10 Mbps. Maybe people don't want to have to wait hours for something. | |
|
Yaco
Yaco
Premium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ | It's the Economy Stupid.............The dollar is worth crap right now.
Lee
PS
Not you Karl  or the article | |
|
JohnNWPVNJMH
join:2007-03-26
Berkeley Heights, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
March 3rd, @04:46PM
| FiOS is forcing others to inovate or raise the white flag! I suppose the fact that since I signed up for FiOS both neighbors on each side of my home signed up .. the guy across the street and the house 1 house from his. FiOS is almost the majority provider on my street! This doesn't include the people I know that don't live in the neighborhood that have had FiOS installed or are currently on the waiting list for installation!
Some companies are actually jealous or fear they will need to invest in order to survive the competition that Verizon has caused and that is what it comes down to.
This is a perfect example on how a big company can indeed create competition as if Verizon was not as large as they were, they wouldn't have had the money for R&D and the deployment of this ground breaking 21st century infrastructure upgrade. The rest of the companies now will either need to cut their top brasses multi-million dollar sallaries and actually invest in some R&D or raise the white flag! | |
|
| 
Yauch
join:2005-06-24 | Re: FiOS is forcing others to inovate or raise the white flag! Are you really claiming that because: 1. 6 people have fios and 2. Embarq doesn't want to invest in a FTTP infrastructure. Embarq is attempting to exit the ISP business? | |
|
| | JohnNWPVNJMH
join:2007-03-26
Berkeley Heights, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
March 9th, @10:54PM
| Re: FiOS is forcing others to inovate or raise the white flag! Not at all, what I am saying is that all players will need to take FiOS seriously. Out of the 10 homes on my block, already 6 went to FiOS since it went live in October of '07 & that doesn't count the many friends and assocites that have switched and reported the same demand in their neighborhoods. This means that firms like Embarq, Comcast and any other competition will need to make the investments to compete or they will be run over. | |
|
ol
@rr.com
 from:
Richard B
| how much what i find funny, is that half the people who bitch on here as well as other forums really don't understand what it takes for companies to get the dsl/cable service to areas where there currently is none.
the equipment, buildings, line leasing, local laws, state laws etc are not cheap and easy to navigate. ever price a dslam server?
most companies realize they can't rely on their current customers to support them forever so they do what they can to expand their services. while at the same time, try to bring them new products.
small companies like emabrq, qwuest, etc dont have the funds like major players like at&t and verizon. | |
|
OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
clubs: | Older VZ stuff Maybe VZ should start selling their older, but still in good shape DSL related parts to these smaller rual ILEC to help them get DSL out farver, at the same time raising more funds to roll out FiOS faster and calm the investors. | |
|
dibbb
join:2003-09-19
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| Embarq 10Mbps ADSL I recently upgraded my business from 5 to 10Mbps ADSL. It's fast enough for probably the next few years. But yes, I'm hoping that in less than five years there is something much faster available.
Now, I will say that Embarq screwed up the install so bad that we lost ALL phone, fax, and DSL connections for most of the whole day. | |
|
RainWind
join:2000-10-20
Van Wert, OH | Farms don't need fiber.. Aside from Vegas and Florida Embarq serves mostly rural areas. I guess to them it makes no sense to wire up BFE with fiber... but Verizon is laying it in metro areas. It makes a lot of sense to fiber up the nation's big cities. | |
|
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
| US Government should install Fiber to every home We now live in a country where many schoolchildren are required to have a computer and download their assignments from the school website. The recent effort by minorities to block network neutrality was not in their best interest. On the other hand the incumbent Telecom and CATV Companies have attempted to claim ownership of internet access by paying off government officials to pass laws to block competition. In reality the minorities should have been lobbying for universal internet access at an affordable price. My local telephone company is Embarq. If Embarq does not want to install fiber to every home, the US Government should arrange to provide fiber to every home whether the homeowner is rich or poor. In the past the Government provided funding to the Telecom Companies to install Fiber to every home but the Telecom Companies other than Verizon took the money and ran.
I live in a development where the city provides water and sewer service. The city and county maintains the local roads and traffic signals. In the next town the city owns the electrical distribution network. During the 1930's the US Government set up the Rural Electrical Administration to fund the development of electrical distribution and telephone systems. Americans need a similar program to install fiber. I am sure that the cost to install a mile of fiber bundle is a lot less expensive then installing a mile of two lane highway. If the government installs the fiber network they can lease it back to the service providers. The homeowner could then select the best service provider for their needs. The homeowner and service providers would pay for a connection and a capacity charge for the desired transmission speed. | |
|
| Jasper1970
join:2002-12-29
Finksburg, MD
·Comcast
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: US Government should install Fiber to every home I think this is so funny. With all the telcos upgrades to date. Like dialup to ISDN or ISDN to DSL then DSL to T1 etc. Thats alot of upgrades to be made. Why didnt they just install fiber in the first place? Has to be CHEAPER in the long run. Just 1 upgrade not 4 or 5. This country ALSWAYS works backwards. Maybe stop worrying about other countries and use the resources in our country. And use the money here and not over in what ever country. | |
|
|
|
|
Embarq Also Doesn't See 'Business Case' For FiOS
·