 
ztmike
1kwikgt
Premium
join:2001-08-02 | Just Die The RIAA should just DIE already. | |
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Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| Re: Just Die Their business model is dead. 
They just don't want to believe it or move on to the future.
So they just keep doing the same thing over and over (suing) and failing.
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| Re: Just Die I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but...
The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story.
Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it?
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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| | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: Just Die No, the RIAA is trying to say that by DOING it, he committed a crime. THERE IS NO CRIME IF NO-ONE DOWNLOADS IT. That is what the EFF is saying.
The RIAA DIDN'T download any songs from him, they just got a list of songs. He OWNED the SONGS. If the RIAA had gotten PROOF that other people were downloading, then they would have a case. As it is, they are attempting to argue the mere FACT that he ripped the songs to his hard drive, he committed a crime. No proof of downloads, no foul. Simple as that.
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Relgion and Politics don't mix! I have firsthand knowledge of what happens when ANY religion mixes with ANY politics. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Just Die said by karlmarx  :The RIAA DIDN'T download any songs from him, they just got a list of songs. Well....I agree with the EFF's point that the act of placing the ripped MP3s into a "shared folder" isn't infringement in any way. My rationale is that I could have a "shared folder" on my local home network and not have it be infringement.
The difference here is that I think what they're saying is he also was sharing that folder on some P2P app. I think that's a different story. That's probably enough to claim intent to distribute, which is a problem. Somehow they got a list of what he was sharing. So either it was available publically or they hacked his PC or network.
said by karlmarx :He OWNED the SONGS. Actually no he doesn't. You never do. He owns the physical media (the CD), not the content on it. Thus you don't have rights to distribute the tunes, which really is in my view the RIAA's one and only valid argument.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Just Die said by GlobalMind :The difference here is that I think what they're saying is he also was sharing that folder on some P2P app. I think that's a different story. That's probably enough to claim intent to distribute, which is a problem. Somehow they got a list of what he was sharing. So either it was available publically or they hacked his PC or network. Ah. So if I walk around town with a pistol openly carried on my hip, you know that I have the intent to use it on somebody. That is actually legal, under state law in California; open carry. Might be different under local laws, but that is the state law.
"Intent" is damned hard to prove, absent an overt act.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Just Die said by tc1uscg :All they gotta do is show INTENT. Same argument used many times in court.. "assault with INTENT to kill". "Possession with INTENT to distribute". In conjunction with an overt act, you can usually prove intent. In the absence of an overt act, you can't prove intent.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| | | | | DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| Harder than you think.
In criminal trials, proving intent is important because the litmus test is "beyond reasonable doubt". If you can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, no crime has been committed. That was the problem with OJ's first trial - the prosecution was such a mess tha they couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt.
In civil cases, intent is not required. The plaintiff piles up their evidence, the defendant piles up THEIR evidence, and the judge/jury sees who has more. Beyond reasonable doubt is not required, nor is intent; the burden of proof is instead 'preponderance of evidence'. | |
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texans20
Johama McBama 08
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| Re: Just Die said by tcp1 :said by Cabal :I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but... The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. You do know just because you say "end of story" it doesn't actually mean that's the end of the story, right? said by Cabal :Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it? No, but in our legal system, that is the only way you can be prosecuted for it. You know, with actual evidence. You don't have to commit a crime to be accused of it. Kids are arrested and prosecuted for "hit lists" in schools. If you posses a bunch of materials to make a bomb, you could be prosecuted for a terrorism attack. If you own guns, ski masks, and pictures of a bank you could be tried for attempted bank robbery. The term attempted murder mean anything? Planning to kill a person can have the same sentence as actually killing a person, you know.
There are many examples in criminal law of people punished for not committing a crime. In this case, the guy attempted to violate copyright law.
I don't like the RIAA, but to act like this guy is innocent is a joke. If he is smart enough to rip CDs, he knew what he was doing.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt
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"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson | |
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ff1324
Where did the time go?
Premium
join:2002-08-24
On Four Day
| Re: Just Die said by texans20 :You don't have to commit a crime to be accused of it. Kids are arrested and prosecuted for "hit lists" in schools. If you posses a bunch of materials to make a bomb, you could be prosecuted for a terrorism attack. If you own guns, ski masks, and pictures of a bank you could be tried for attempted bank robbery. The term attempted murder mean anything? Planning to kill a person can have the same sentence as actually killing a person, you know. There are many examples in criminal law of people punished for not committing a crime. In this case, the guy attempted to violate copyright law. I don't like the RIAA, but to act like this guy is innocent is a joke. If he is smart enough to rip CDs, he knew what he was doing. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt What should he be charged with in a criminal court? Possession of music? Does having a computer, MP3 files, an internet connection, CD's, and a file sharing program demonstrate that you are intending to infringe on someone's copyright?
If that's the case, lock me up. I got it all. I don't share music nor do I download music. But I meet your litmus test for handing over my life's savings to the RIAA.
Please, don't ever run for congress.
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What do you want to do to the world, Ronald?
Burn it all.
See you next year, Ronald. | |
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| | | 
Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by Cabal :I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but... The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it? Right you are. The story was mis-reported.
However there is a discussion over at EFF in regards to ripping CDs you legally own.
»www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/01/ar···d-or-not | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Cabal :I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but... The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it? And here are some more facts for you.
Part of what the RIAA is saying that the mere act of converting an audio CD to MP3 format is illegal irregardless of whether or not he shares it. That is the main part of the argument.
In essence, it would make nearly every single MP3 player, including iPods, illegal unless all your music was bought online. | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
| Re: Just Die I prefer lossless audio files when I rip my Cd's.
In the future, I plan on putting all my media files on a network drive so I can access them from my LAN.
AFAIK I am not infringing and will not be as long as I don't make them available from the WAN for anybody but myself.
The EFF is right on this one, they have to have proven infringement to prosecute the guy.
The RIAA could have just gotten hold of a file list which are common on servers, that doesn't mean you can actually download them.
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
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| | | | | NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
Myrtle Beach, SC | Re: Just Die you guys know if the RIAA wins this thay can sue you for just copying your cd to mp3 even without a share | |
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by gaforces :I prefer lossless audio files when I rip my Cd's. In the future, I plan on putting all my media files on a network drive so I can access them from my LAN. AFAIK I am not infringing and will not be as long as I don't make them available from the WAN for anybody but myself. Lossless or MP3 formats, it doesn't matter to the RIAA. | |
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| | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | moonpuppy,
I'm on your side on this issue. Please don't use "irregardless" as a word. It's not a word. | |
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Just Die said by jjeffeory :moonpuppy, I'm on your side on this issue. Please don't use "irregardless" as a word. It's not a word. It is gaining acceptance.
You would be surprised what started out as "non-words" to suddenly appear in Webster's. | |
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| | | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit:
January 14th, @11:48AM
| said by moonpuppy :It is gaining acceptance. You would be surprised what started out as "non-words" to suddenly appear in Webster's. Unfortunately. Some changes just shouldn't happen. What really grates on my ears is incorrect pronoun order, and case mismatch. I can't say how often I here people say, "I and him went to the game". "I" should always come after any other pronoun, and "I" (subjective case) should not be used in conjunction with "him" (objective case).
Oh, and "ran" for "run" is another pet peeve. And "should of" instead of "should've".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| | | | | | | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Just Die said by NormanS :Unfortunately. Some changes just shouldn't happen. What really grates on my ears is incorrect pronoun order, and case mismatch. I can't say how often I here people say, "I and him went to the game". Everybudy knowz its "Me an him went to tha game"...  | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
edit:
January 14th, @01:54AM
| --edit; no need to echo the above-- | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Cabal :The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. Actually they were in the \shared docs folder. that isn't the same as a sharing folder in kazaa.
only way they could have been accessed by the outside is the file sharing ports and every isp blocks those.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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texans20
Johama McBama 08
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| Re: Just Die said by dvd536 :said by Cabal :The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. Actually they were in the \shared docs folder. that isn't the same as a sharing folder in kazaa. only way they could have been accessed by the outside is the file sharing ports and every isp blocks those. Well then how did the RIAA find out he was sharing music?
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"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson | |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
 ·Mediacom
| Re: Just Die if that is true the only way the RIAA could see that folder from out side this guys networks is to use some kind of backdoor or rootkit
and if that is true the RIAA could be in some real hot water
copyright infringement is civil law but IF that is what the RIAA did there is real jail time for them | |
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megladon
@hoola.com | I could be wrong, and maybe i am, but i thought that some sharing programs before would auto scan for music or whatever for your share folder, or atleast ask you where you kept it, and then used whatever was in there to share by default? | |
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| | | NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
Myrtle Beach, SC
·Verizon FIOS
| one other thang here is just becuse a file is in your shared folder dont meen it was shared he could have just been useing it a play list editor and even then did he have the app setup for that folder ? .... the fact it was in a shared folder meens nothing becuse you can have shared folders that no one can get to heh | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL
| said by Cabal :I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but... The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story. Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it? Actually he probably downloaded a file sharing program, clicked next next next next through the entire setup process in turn automatically sharing all the music files on his computer. He probably also set (the default option) the filesharing program to load automatically on Windows startup.
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir | |
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| | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | HAHAH,
Cabal... Nice try! Nice 'twist'on words. | |
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texans20
Johama McBama 08
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| They just might. They keep settling out of court for $2500 or so but that does not recoup their legal fees, so for every case they have they end up loosing money. The record companies are getting tighter on cash as CD sales keep falling and since the RIAA isn't doing much for them I suspect to see some more record companies drop their membership.
All the major record companies have now opened up their libraries to non-DRM sales. Now it's up to us, the consumer, to start buying music.
First we said CDs are overpriced, sell them online cheap, so they did. Then we said DRM sucks, sell your music DRM free, so they did. I hope to see less pirating and more purchasing.
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"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | riaa mpaa just remember they are working with att with the att internet filter, and on the security for the new (hd or blue ray) dvd type.
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me | |
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dadkins
Land of Confusion
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: riaa mpaa said by jgkolt :just remember they are working with att with the att internet filter, and on the security for the new (hd or blue ray) dvd type. HD DVD and Blu-ray protection has already gone the way of the Dodo.
One thing is still there though... 17-50GB file sizes.
For most of us, that is one hell of a deterrent from uploading to anyone.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: riaa mpaa said by dadkins :said by jgkolt :just remember they are working with att with the att internet filter, and on the security for the new (hd or blue ray) dvd type. One thing is still there though... 17-50GB file sizes. For most of us, that is one hell of a deterrent from uploading to anyone. At least those of us in non fios areas. even at fios speeds its going to take a while to download/upload that much data!
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | Re: riaa mpaa you could download 50 gigs in a day. uploading might be harder.
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me | |
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birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Read the brief Read the brief from the amicus curiae brief link. It's quite informative.
Essentially it says making available is not infringement, and uploading to an authorized agent (MediaSentry) isn't infringement, either.
Plaintiffs, according to the brief, must present evidence of upload to a third-party. Which, of course, they are unable to do. Even if they had the PC before the Kazaa was uninstalled. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Read the brief Yes and even though they downloaded the files they can't prove who was sharing the file on line give the thousands who where hosting these files at the time. They would actually have to witness him with their own eyeballs sharing the files with somebody. They can't use his computer to incriminate him. That would be like stealing a baseball bat, braining somebody and then blaming the person you ripped off because his bat was a potential murder weapon.
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Eat pork chops for Allah! | |
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| | birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Read the brief said by Transmaster :Yes and even though they downloaded the files they can't prove who was sharing the file on line give the thousands who where hosting these files at the time. Well, they do have the source IP, and Cox identified his account as in use at the time. His defense to the lawsuit has not mentioned "it must have been someone else using my computer." He says the files on his computer are fair use copies of CDs he already owns.
And, he uninstalled Kazaa after the complaint.
Hmmm. | |
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chuckman
@xspedius.net
| All the EFF argues in its brief is that in order for a copyright holder's distribution rights to be infringed, there must be actual dissemination. It explicitly states that it takes no position with regards to whether actual dissemination is required for a copyright holder's other exclusive rights to be infringed, such as his or her reproduction rights. Thus the EFF isn't arguing that if there is no actual dissemination there is no infringement. They are just arguing that if there is no dissemination, there is no infringement of the distribution right. Just thought I would chime in to clarify.
-chuckman | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Who has bigger pockets? Riaa or Eff?
I dont see how much longer the riaa is going to hold out since others are getting involved now. | |
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vermonster
@charter.com
| Re: Who has bigger pockets? What we want is reasonable priced music.
.99 a track, where the artist gets .10 a track.. if that, is just too much.
Look at the popularity of those Russian MP3 sites.
Or, I recently read in a Newsweek article, when Rhapsody (as an experiment) lowered its cost per song from $1.00 to $0.49 for 3 weeks, its music sales went up fourfold.
-A | |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX | Go Away RIAA OMG they just wont give up already.
the RIAA omoung other 4 letter agencys. are the reason the Cable/DSL/Satalite service is implenting filters which impact our day to day abilities to do what we once was able to do. | |
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lew_jean
join:2005-05-13
Marietta, GA | How did they know My question is how did the RIAA know he had the music on his hard drive. | |
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| etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
| Re: How did they know said by lew_jean :My question is how did the RIAA know he had the music on his hard drive. Good question!
Do the RIAA have unauthorized access to my computer?
If I take my computer to service will the tech illegally scan my hard drive and report the results to the RIAA?
Seems that the intelligence gathering methods used by the RIAA are higher in the criminal scale than copyright infringements. | |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA |  What's with all the File Sharing Anyway?
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cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA | desperate times call for desperate measures seems like the RIAA is getting more desperate on trying to maintain its monopoly.
seems like there is a little confusion on if the lawsuit if for the act of ripping the CDs or making the resulting mp3s freely available. | |
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| Hasher
join:2000-06-19
Rocky River, OH
| Re: desperate times call for desperate measures I REALLY WONDER.... AM I in VIOLATION of Copyright if I play these songs when other people are with me? Such as I pop a CD into my Car CD player and I have 5 people in the car. By their definition I have just broken copyright law as I have distributed this song to the ears of those 5 people. So if they leave my car humming and singing the song I might get pulled over and the RIAA will SUE me.
My gosh. I remember when SUE was a beautiful name for a child.
Such greed in the corporate world.
My concept is.. if it is reasonably priced I will buy it but for $20 to $25 it is not worth it for 1 song I like on an album.
I buy from Walmart and Amazon the mp3's I want and I will be darned if they are going to tell me on what device I can play them on. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
edit:
January 13th, @05:37PM
| We are all Crooks according to the RIAA
The RIAA sez I am a Pirate so I decided to dress the part. |
According to the RIAA the mere fact I have downloaded music into my computer means I am a Pirate. These sh*t for brains contend if I have it on my computer I am infringing because even if I don't share any of the stuff on my HD's I have the potential of doing so which is a violation. This is totally outrageous.
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Eat pork chops for Allah! | |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
January 13th, @03:19PM
| It doesn't matter, the RIAA is always wrong, fuck the RIAA! Hoo-yah! I liken them to a boil on the asshole of society; disagreeable pustules that require the lance to be rid of, and whom no one will miss when they are gone.
Forgot it was Sunday. I try to speak kindly even of miscreants on Sundays...back to the game! | |
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EFF Joins Arizona Man's Fight Against RIAA
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