 
SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
>_ lolz
| Treating customers like pirates Stupid DRM... when will they learn.
I personally like Valve and how they built their Steam client. Play offline after activation just fine, play online as well.
No keys... no rootkits... etc.
Those that wish to pirate always will, stop treating your paying customers like everyone fails.
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»www.google.com is your best friend... please use it before asking your question. | |
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Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Treating customers like pirates The thing is this stuff won't even be a speed bump for the pirates. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| Re: Treating customers like pirates said by Skeedatl  :The thing is this stuff won't even be a speed bump for the pirates. Exactly, and thats what pisses me off. It does absolutely nothing to actually stop or even slow piracy. But it will create a headache for the people who actually pay for the damn game.
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Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
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delt4
Anywhere but North
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Pittsburgh, PA
 ·Comcast
| Re: Treating customers like pirates said by Camelot One :said by Skeedatl :The thing is this stuff won't even be a speed bump for the pirates. Exactly, and thats what pisses me off. It does absolutely nothing to actually stop or even slow piracy. But it will create a headache for the people who actually pay for the damn game. Esp the 3 installs.....screw that. I actually pay for my games and if I can only install it 3 times, I'll either not get the game or look for a way around it. | |
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Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Treating customers like pirates Problem is it ends up in shrinkwrap licensing and you end up fighting the store to take it back plus gas at $4 a gallon. | |
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| | | AnonShawUser
join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB
| Actually, the secondary effect will do a LOT to slow down piracy. They're removing the requirement of a CD check from both games, which means there won't be any readily accessable no-cd cracks. As I've seen, there aren't really a lot of groups out there that will actually bother with big cracks if there's no need to make a no-cd. That means that when they update the game, the users may well be left screwed if they didn't pay for it. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
clubs:
·VoicePulse
| Re: Treating customers like pirates Right, because there are so many titles out there that haven't been cracked.
It will be cracked for no other reason than that it is a new challenge. And then it will be downloaded for free by both those who don't want to pay for it, and those who might have bought the game but don't want to deal with this crap.
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Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
edit:
May 12th, @10:54AM
| BS I can only install this thing 3 times even on the same PC or does it mean I can install it on 3 pc's? That seems kind of dumb if you can just put it on one PC 3 times. Damn no wonder PC gaming is hurting. I was going to buy spore but fork it I'll just download it now.
Ok now I want to know this say I buy spore and me and the wife want to play it on both our PC's can we install it on both? It's not issue to play a console game on different consoles should be the same for PC's. | |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
Walla Walla, WA | Re: BS That what I was wondering. If for some reason I need to reinstall OS and all four times in a week, the game wont install the fourth time? | |
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Mizzat
This space for rent
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by TOPDAWG :I can only install this thing 3 times even on the same PC or does it mean I can install it on 3 pc's? That seems kind of dumb if you can just put it on one PC 3 times. Damn no wonder PC gaming is hurting. I was going to buy spore but fork it I'll just download it now. Ok now I want to know this say I buy spore and me and the wife want to play it on both our PC's can we install it on both? It's not issue to play a console game on different consoles should be the same for PC's. Do you have Windows XP? It does the same thing....
You just call in when you need a new activation. Lots of software has that now. | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| It's on 3 different PC's.
And they have stated that you can play without the disc being required in the drive.
The DSLR article makes it sound much worse than it is.
See here for more details:
»kotaku.com/5008454/spore-to-use-···tication
And patches are not released as often for games as the DSLR article says, so that part is pretty ridiculous in saying that it's not much of a tradeoff.
As if patches are released nearly as often as every 10 days. | |
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: BS quote:
We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
Still doesn't strike me as much of a trade off. | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| Re: BS said by Karl : quote:
We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
Still doesn't strike me as much of a trade off. So you're saying that having to go online only for patches and new features is as bad as having to go online every 10 days no matter what?
If you want new features and patches, then you need an Internet connection to begin with.
So what does it matter that you have to have a validated version of the game to get the patches and online content? You had to go online to get it in the first place...
Even Stardock does this, and they have no copy protection on their discs. You cannot get patches unless you have a CD key registered online with them. And people say that Stardock has the least interfering copy protection around.
How is EA far off from that here?
I don't buy EA games anyway, but I certainly don't see the change in this DRM as not being significant for the better. I can't remember the last time I could play a game without a crack to play without the disc in the drive. | |
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: BS quote:
So you're saying that having to go online only for patches and new features is as bad as having to go online every 10 days no matter what?
I'm saying it's not much different. I still need a connection from the outset to use the product. Thereafter, I'm still authenticating every time I play multi-player, download a patch, or download new game content.
Other than eliminating the ten day authentication window, what actually changed here?
I still absolutely need an Internet connection to play a purchased product. I'm still authenticating constantly. I still am restricted to 3 PC installs per key and have to negotiate with EA if I want to install a product I purchased on a fourth configuration. I'm still using Securom, whose history is troubled at best.... | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| Re: BS Sounds like you're assuming that there is some kind of interaction required to validate the game when you go online.
I would assume the opposite, that when you sign in online, it reads your CD key, and verifies you without you having to do anything. So if you're going online ANYWAY, what would be the problem there? That is a far cry from being required to be online because you don't know when the 10 days is going to hit, and you'll no longer be able to play the game.
Also, this allows you to play the game completely offline, which the original DRM scenario did not, because of the 10 day validation.
I should also mention that your post says BioWare specifically, and they make Mass Effect, which has no online play, you'd only be going online for patches and downloadable content. So what are you worried about there? Are YOU even worried or are you just trying to make this look worse than it is by being sensational?
I never install a game on more than 2 computers myself, and I can certainly see that someone would install on more than 3. But you've got to be realistic and know that you and people that visit DSLR are NOT the norm. EA sadly isn't going to miss the few people that won't be this because they can't install it on 4+ computers simultaneously.
Everyone would have been affected by the 10-day requirement, but now a small percentage of people with access to 4+ computers they want to install the game on are going to be affected. EA certainly knew if they affected EVERYONE that they were going to have significant issues.
I would say that is a huge step in the right direction and not simply a weak trade off as you suggest. | |
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| | | | | | tad2020
join:2007-07-17
| Re: BS said by skuv :
I never install a game on more than 2 computers myself, and I can certainly see that someone would install on more than 3. But you've got to be realistic and know that you and people that visit DSLR are NOT the norm. EA sadly isn't going to miss the few people that won't be this because they can't install it on 4+ computers simultaneously. Does this proposed system limit its self to 3 simultaneous installations or 3 installations activations? The later is what I understood it to be, which could be troubling to anyone that plays a game several times over a couple of year period. | |
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
edit:
May 12th, @05:10PM
| quote:
Also, this allows you to play the game completely offline, which the original DRM scenario did not, because of the 10 day validation.
My understanding is the DRM still requires online activation to play the game. Can you, anonymous defender of EA, show me where this is not the case? quote:
Are YOU even worried or are you just trying to make this look worse than it is by being sensational?
These solutions annoy more legit customers than pirates, and this one comes with a 3 PC limit, requires a connection for the first time ever, and comes from a company with a bad reputation (Securom). No, I'm not being sensational, I'm asking legitimate questions while everyone else is giving EA PR the benefit of the doubt for what seems to me like a very minor change in the overall DRM structure. quote:
I never install a game on more than 2 computers myself, and I can certainly see that someone would install on more than 3. But you've got to be realistic and know that you and people that visit DSLR are NOT the norm.
What if you install it on two PC builds and a laptop, then sell it? Is that "the norm"? What if you keep the game for five years and by the time you're ready to play it, the activation server no longer exists because EA has dropped out of the PC gaming business to do consoles exclusively? Still not the norm? | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| Re: BS said by Karl : Can you, anonymous defender of EA, show me where this is not the case? I'm far from an EA defender, so don't put words in my mouth, please. I hate EA for many reasons.
But I am being objective here, because they did take a huge step back with this DRM scheme.
However you must really hate them because you just cannot look at it objectively. | |
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| | | | | | | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Re: BS DRM that focuses on control is BAD, almost all DRM is bad by design. It doesn't stop piracy and all it does is annoy users. Since when does the publisher get to say that you can only install a game 3 times before you have to buy a new copy?
I'm fine with a DRM scheme like Steam where I am not limited and actually have far greater freedom with authorized use (including them keeping a backup copy for redownload) at the expense of authenticating online to initiate play along with offline mode.
I'm NOT ok with DRM that automatically assumes I'm a criminal and limits my use of the software to try to prevent unauthorized use which it won't prevent. | |
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Mizzat
This space for rent
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: BS said by rahvin112 :. Since when does the publisher get to say that you can only install a game 3 times before you have to buy a new copy? You don't have to buy another copy, just call them to activate a new install. Just like you have to do with Windows, Scansoft, etc, etc.... | |
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| | | | | tad2020
join:2007-07-17
| 3 install limit is a bit insane. I have 3 gaming computers: my desktop at home, my desktop at work, and my new laptop (which will be dual booting Vista and XP soon). I'd already hit my 3 limit before the end of the week.
What about many years from now and I want to replay this old game, but all the auth servers went off line years back because they switched to the neural-fingerprint tracking chip system instead. | |
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| | | | | dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| said by Karl : quote:
So you're saying that having to go online only for patches and new features is as bad as having to go online every 10 days no matter what?
I'm saying it's not much different. I still need a connection from the outset to use the product. Thereafter, I'm still authenticating every time I play multi-player, download a patch, or download new game content. Initial install aside... multi-player, downloading patches or new content already involve an Internet connection. I'm not sure what the gripe is here if they're authenticating when you're connecting to the Internet to update or play the game anyways. | |
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| | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by skuv :
And they have stated that you can play without the disc being required in the drive. So EA made one step forward, and took 5 steps back. Well done. 
said by skuv :
And patches are not released as often for games as the DSLR article says, so that part is pretty ridiculous in saying that it's not much of a tradeoff. I can play the console versions w/o worrying about where I may have played this game or being locked out from patches.
Personally, the tradeoff for playing old games again on a mouse/keyboard isn't worth the technical hassles the publisher wants to put me through. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by skuv :It's on 3 different PC's. And they have stated that you can play without the disc being required in the drive. The DSLR article makes it sound much worse than it is. See here for more details: » kotaku.com/5008454/spore-to-use-···ticationAnd patches are not released as often for games as the DSLR article says, so that part is pretty ridiculous in saying that it's not much of a tradeoff. As if patches are released nearly as often as every 10 days. I don't see anything stating in the DSLR article as to how often patches are released | |
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Clever Name
Premium
join:2005-05-06
Davenport, IA | Crack a lacka And it will be cracked almost instantly so only legit customers will be annoyed. Nice job idiots. | |
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JusticeDun
join:2004-10-15
Okeana, OH | Hack Attack Stuff like this makes hacking more exciting. | |
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kba4
join:2001-10-23
Akron, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| makes sense while I agree that DRM is more restrictive than protective, the idea that you must authenticate to utilize their online services seems perfectly reasonable to me. after all, unless they use Bit-Torrent and open source applications, it is their server, internet connection, etc. that you must use to get these updates. and since you must be *online* to get these updates, what a perfect opportunity to authenticate a *live* user. as long as this doesn't stray into anything more than entering a few fields' of data, even a few times a week, then what's the problem? I'd much rather have to enter my SN or whatever to get a patch from a server being used only by other legit users than wait in line and get a few KB/s because half the users are using the same SN on the same un-patched app (game in this case).
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when will these humans realize their insignifigance in the universe? | |
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TheHelpful1
Premium
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD
·EarthLink
| Re: makes sense So I guess your okay with other games EA puts out like the current iterations of their NFS (need for speed) series that for online play, only lets you play on their servers. So, what if you want to organize a nice LAN game 5 years from now when EA has shut down their NFS-carbon online servers in favor of their current 'hit title' NFS-Rice burners (hey that's where their headed!).
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"My weakness is that I care too much" | |
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kba4
join:2001-10-23
Akron, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: makes sense no I wouldn't go that far, nowhere near it in fact. The issue at hand is whether or not freeloaders should have access to patches and updates: I say no, because it ends up costing the legit gamers more in the end. It's not like it's Windows and the game will present a security risk to the net if left unpatched. It's a game, and gamers being a (large) niche market should expect preferential treatment. And we're talking about a one time license at POS, not a membership fee to download updates anyway.
Plus, I'm sure the more sophisticated gamers out there can figure out how to set up an update server somehow for LAN parties. But you'd expect that these gamers would be fine with the version of the game they have if they don't want to pay anyway. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Hey Karl, I submitted it last Friday - what happened to it? Don't see my name anywhere... 
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | 3 times? What if I wanna reinstall it 5 years and 5 pc's later?I gotta buy it again?I don't think so.I'll be buying and not installing it.I'll be getting a "backup copy" online that lets me play when I want to. | |
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LurkerLito
join:2004-06-08
 ·Verizon FIOS
| It works kind of like this: From what I understand, you can install it on up to 3 different computer configs. It works kind of like the XP and Vista activation where it gets a hardware hash value for the system and uses that with your cd-key to make an activation key from their server. You can get up to 3 different machines with the game activated without any help, but once you go over that number you have to call EA support to get a new install activated.
My biggest gripe with the system is they don't mention at all if their uninstaller deactivates the game on that machine. This is a big deal IMO, because if it doesn't deactivate the game then if you upgrade "enough" of your computer components you'd need to reactivate the game with each hardware change. Not a good thing if you're a computer enthusiast that changes their hardware up a lot. | |
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anonpomy
@comcast.net | Steam Why doesn't EA follow Steams model i think steam is becoming one of the greatest playforms for pc gaming out there | |
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anonpomnot
@verizon.net
| Re: Steam Steam blows. They send you 6 CDs and then tell you to d/l another 500megs. Then you need to find patches for your video driver. And meanwhile, a million others are trying to get on Steam and it lags.
Nice try.
As far as EA/BioWare go, maybe they are listening. But when you read that a title (Rockstar games) like GTAIV just raked in $500M in first week, crying "we need DRM to protect us from pirates" is just a joke. Consoles have less theft (stil lthere but marginal) so just leave your titles on consoles if you are so inclined. But PCs will always have hacks and thieves as it's the mentality. But that should be factored into the cost of the game, no? | |
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| | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Steam said by anonpomnot :
Steam blows. They send you 6 CDs and then tell you to d/l another 500megs. Then you need to find patches for your video driver. And meanwhile, a million others are trying to get on Steam and it lags. *shrugs* It's not a game company's fault that your rig and setup blow chunks. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
edit:
May 12th, @02:43PM
| Steam is a PITA --- For the reason that I have to go through hoops to play all my games in Steam at the same time. You can only log in to your Steam account on only one machine at a time. That sucks.
Fileplanet's Direct-to-drive (D2D) is better IMHO. | |
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| | Jito463
join:2008-05-09
| Re: Steam How many times do you really need to play your games in Steam on more than one computer at a time? Frankly, I'd find that a little disconcerting, trying to focus on two different computers (or more) playing my games. Steam is probably the best choice out there for buying games online. I've dealt with D2D, and had nothing but issues with Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and Chronicles of Riddick. I detest D2D completely.
Steam - on the other hand - has only caused me grief one time; Steam Community with the OB games (HL2:E2, TF2, Portal). Their forced use of SC in those three games caused me nothing but headaches. Though they finally listened and allowed SC to be disabled for all games, including the OB games, so they're back in my good graces again.
I never had any problems with HL2 when it was launched (started playing at 4:30am Central on the day it was launched). Never had problems with Bioshock. I've never had problems accessing or playing any of my numerous games through Steam. Sorry you had such a bad experience, but not everyone has issues with Steam. I like it. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL | Re: Steam Ok...It is enough to be annoying. I have had no problems with D2D. I also don't like the fact that every Steam game seems to have an exception to modding or patches. If Steam works out for you, great. With me, not so much. | |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD | I like playing PC games . . . but I'm not gonna deal with this crap any longer.
Goodbye EA Games . . . you've lost me as a customer. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Only 3 installs per license? So if you reinstall the game 3 times that's it?
This is BS.
Why is this legal?
Imagine the rage if manufacturers made cars that only could be started 1000 times or if the made TV's that could watch only 2000 shows or DVD's that exploded after being watched 3 times (oh wait they're trying schemes like that...)
This is total bullshit.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Long live the Freedom Fighters--- Hackers, Crackers, Pirates Maybe we should all wait for the DRM stripped, permanently activated "Freedom" editions.... IE the PIRATED ONES.
3 installs then it's worthless. That's BS. Total BS. | |
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Toadman
Hypnotoad
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Re: Big deal. said by hayabusa3303 :Ea games sucks at everything they touch or SCREWS up a good series game. Imo everytime i go into Bestbuy,gamestop any of those the PC market for games keeps getting smaller and smaller. Why do this now? I think your about 8 years too late there EA. Fully agree on this one. Simcity Societies is a classic example. Original Sim Cities were great, I couldn't even install Simcity Societies and I wasn't the only one. Glad I could stick the stickers back on the package and take it back to Walmart! | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
edit:
May 12th, @11:55AM
| Are you guys stupid? It's 3 computers not 3 installs on the same computer. Any reason why you need to install it on any more than that at one time LEGALLY? | |
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See 21 replies to this post |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Like Bioshock It will be instantly cracked. Ever tried to install Bioshock without an internet connection. If you using a legitimate version, YOU CAN'T. however, download the same game from your local pirate bay, and you can just mount both images and install it no problem.
DRM brings the value of the product down to ZERO. So if it has ZERO value, then when you download a copy, you aren't really stealing.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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See 19 replies to this post |
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bf2142
@qwest.net
| Fix all the bugs on BF2142 I don't think I've played at least one evening without the game freezing my computer requiring to restart it, freezing requiring to restart the game or just crashed to my desktop. Before you take every last dime from your customers at least fix the bugs in your games! | |
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devilshaven
@rogers.com
| cat and mouse cat and mouse they just go round and round, the more complicated DRM protection they put on applications, the more hackers will want to crack it just for fun, just to show off that company's keep spending millions on is useless and in the end completely pointless.
3 systems limit WTF I'll play it today, in the next 3 years I'll probably change/upgrade my system several times, and in 4 years time i won't be able to play the game i paid for, maybe instead of selling games they should just rent them, this looks like its not sale, not something i owen, more like something i leased/rented for a few years and then i can just throw the media away, it seems to me ea is taking more care on making DRM protection on games then actually making good games | |
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| morisato
join:2008-03-16
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: cat and mouse I like to change my hardware alot The 3 systems Limit can suck a Big one I have No problem authenticating to get patches, Fine by me not like i am not there anyways. Personally for a single Player game The CD based Drm is best imo. disc must be in drive. for Multiplayer games a Key system Imposed, and said key is required to get any patches. etc.. The whole concept of limiting installs is only going to bite the game makers in the ass adding more labour costs and bad pr. | |
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Lowtarget
15Mbps Roadrash
Premium
join:2003-12-22
Alger, OH
clubs: | Re: cat and mouse Even if EA goes ahead with the new DRM on new games. Given some time the pirates will be able to crack it. There is far more people cracking software then making it. Thats just the facts of life I hate to say. | |
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Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FIOS
| Another win for the pirates I love to buy games, not as my only way to get them but as a way of saying thanks for the creativity and entertainment. That said, getting a pirated game with a hacked executable is so much less hassle than it is to own a legal version. Sure, I dont get to play online but if its a pretty decent offline game, who cares? Game gets an update fix? Pirated version is out just as quickly. I dont need to authenticate, I dont need the CD in the drive, I dont need to login to a secondary piece of software (Steem) - I just start the game and play.
That said though, I like Steem, even appreciate it. I had lost my CD for Half Life 1 and wanted to play some old skool CS with some friends. I had long since uninstalled it from my computer. A luck would have it, I installed steam and was able to download half life since I had registered it on Steam years ago.
Bottom line, EA and the rest need to find a happy medium with this DRM crud so that those who purchase a license get value - not hassle - for their money. | |
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klde97
| Re: Another win for the pirates hell i havent touch a ea game since BF2... since they refused to fix it and rush that crappy 2142 out.. the only ea game i play that doesnt have that crap is sim city 4..
steam and wow have checks to make sure you are legally playing it and i dont mind the checks ( plus factor of not having to put in the discs too ).. those are the only 2 companys i give my $$$ to and id/activision | |
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TSI James
TSI James
Premium
join:2008-02-22 | WOW! I wish EA put this much effort in supporting there games when they are done. Maybe they should start there first.
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TSI James - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. | |
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Matrix
@verizon.net
| DRM the smart way? Samplebase.com is using a DRM system that actually works. When you download their software (for creating music) the software is linked to your online account and will only load sounds that you downloaded from that account. You can install the software on as many computers as you are working on and never need to enter a serial number or use a dongle.
Would be cool if other industries could use this type of non-intrusive DRM system, if DRM is absolutely needed. | |
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EA Scales Back 'Internet Required' DRM
