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Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Quality vs. flexibility Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other.
The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
 ·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by djrobx  :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by djrobx :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility Except that with a car it's impossible to isolate yourself from outside noise (and if it was, it wouldn't be safe).
You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. Real life is far from perfect. I have yet to see a perfectly designed spatial audio system where everyone in the audience can hear everything perfectly. Besides, that's what distance controls are for.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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join:2001-02-18
Bettendorf, IA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Andoh :I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. I'm as much a sound geek as the next guy (or at least as much as I can afford to be), but there comes a point where it's an obsession. I mean, c'mon, by your logic you'd rather not have it than to not listen to it "optimally." That's purely argumentative and I guarantee you all don't mean it.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by yock :I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio. Unless you live in a hall or something a living room or home theater room is the same, but ideally with much better equipment. Car makers use crap equipment for their audio systems, while they can give you the audio in a 5.1 format, it won't be as accurate as a home theater system is, which is part of the idea behind DVD-A and SACDs. I have listened to the Acura TLs DVD-A system and it's ok, but not that great. | |
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| | | Davros866
join:2001-07-23
Houston, TX
1 edit | "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! You are listening to the wrong layer of your DVD-A disk if you think it is. Dolby and DTS are compressed, lossy formats. DVD-A is an uncompressed, high bitrate, multichannel format. Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Davros866 :DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! I never said it was. 
Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! Thanks, it already is. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. Problem isn't quality vs flexibility...it's availability. Try to find everything on DTS, DVDA or SACD...few titles are available so of course they're going to be a tiny fraction of the market. I wouldn't buy a non-5.1 title again if given the CHOICE.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Availability and price. Those systems are pricey and the media is pretty high as well. Although I admit $20 for a DVDA isn't that much more than some standard CDs out there going for $17, but then again I never buy my CD's at $17 neither. 
I'm guessing a few more years for the equipment to go down in price and the subsequent media will as well. I'll be living the high life (audio-wise) by then.
If you ask me hard copies will never go away. Maybe CD's might fade (in a few decades) but there will always be something out there. Look at how long they have been talking about paperless offices? It will never happen. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
1 edit | said by oliphant :I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. It's a shame that Acura didn't go for someone who knows how to make speakers. BOSE suck, they would have been better off scoring a contract with Dynaudio if they were aiming for high quality. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility The same could be said about most of the TL...but then it would be $40-$50K instead of $30K.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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andrewe77
Gonads And Strife
join:2000-09-17
Blue Springs, MO
clubs:
| "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by andrewe77 :I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Hardly. But believe what you want. I don't care. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. Yes high end audio in the car is wonderful, but having DVD-A or SACD quality would be a waste of money unless you are one of the few who want total isolation from the road and want the bragging rights. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility "Waste of money" is purely a judgement call and it really makes no difference here. There are applications other than entertainment for positional audio in a vehicle that could be useful. We also yet again get into this "optimal" argument. Why doesn't it have to be perfect to enjoy it? Last I checked most major movie theaters had positional audio. You all telling me that every seat in the house ps perfectly attuned to the positional audio system? Of course it isn't, but the effect is FAR from lost on the patrons.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility What I am saying is the audio entertainment enhancements (audio fidelity) of the more advanced sound technologies tend to be lost in an environment like the car. Regular CD audio with good hardware to back it up makes for an incredible listening experience in the car. Surface noise, impedance, and other factors in your average vehicle (in my opinion) outweigh the subtle benefits the average ear would enjoy.
Four speaker separation can easily be simulated with crossovers (if even that). Sure it's not true four directional audio, but it works. Not that I'm trying to make a point over not having a 5.1 Dolby Digital Surround car system. Positional audio wasn't my focus at all. Just audio fidelity.
Yes some people would welcome SACD capabilities in their car and yes it's a judgement call on whether or not buying one for the car is a waste of money. But I did point that out on my last comment. For the average consumer it is indeed not necessary today. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well, 5.1 implies positional audio. It has nothing to do with audio fidelity. You can get four channels of distreet audio from a cassette tape...doesn't mean it sounds like a dream. =)
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well you brought up the usefulness of positional audio in the car. Not me . And stet I know there are vehicles out there that cut out outside environmental noise. I see the commercials all the time. But there are fewer of those out in the road than the noisy cars. My preference is to be able to hear a fair amount of what's going on outside. Makes for safer driving when you can hear things quieter than a siren or horn (or crash, etc). | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| said by SRFireside :To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. I have a Chevy Avalanche (fully loaded) and when the windows are closed I don't hear much of the outside world at all. In fact, I hear more outside noises when I'm in my living room then I do when driving around. Also, doesn't Ford advertise that the interior of new F150 is almost completely sound proof?
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
Eternity courses through my veins. | |
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| | jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| Quote:
Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". To me both Sirius and XM sound like a badly encoded MP3.
Reply:
Have you ever listened to Sirius or XM without using those stupid FM modulators? If not, you can't judge the quality of service. These technologies are very hardware dependent. If you buy cheap crap you will get crap in return. I do agree that they aren't wuite CD quality, but I have yet to hear an MP3 off the internet that sounds as good. Heck, even the sirius internet streams sound better than most MP3's you find floating on the internet. | |
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| | | jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility I agree with jazzy112 , the quality is rather good (much better than MOST MP3s). I would guess that at least 85% of XM (I have not tried Serius) is at least the quality of a high-bit rate MP3 (at least 200kb/s).
It is either that or listen to static-filled, commerical filled, land-based FM. I heard a few years ago that FM was to go digital, but that is apparently bust.
Comparing satelite radio with FM terestrial radio is like comparing a Porshe to a Saturn. The Porshe is ganna sound better. Period.
Satelite is as high-quality as radio is ganna get in this age, your ganna have to live with it. | |
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BigFresh
join:2001-05-04
Stratford, CT
| The bottom line with me and my satellite radio was that I got similar quality to radio, WITHOUT the annoying commercials!!! A twenty minute ride in the car now gets 5-6 songs, compared to 1 to 3 (if I was lucky!) The bottom line is that there are different strokes for different folks.
To say the disc is dead is a foolish statement. Even if their preminition is true, it's not something we have to worry about now anyway. I think comparing music discs (CD's DVD-A) to video discs (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray) is foolish. I can accept a bit of loss on my music if it gives me portability when I want it. Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting the decision on HD-DVDs! I've held off my collection until they come about, because 480p won't hold a candle to 720p, 1080i, p, etc!! | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| said by djrobx :Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". Are you seriously frightened by it? What's the (real) damage if someone doesn't know (or care) about everything being the best quality?
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| | | mad_chemist
join:2001-08-06
Salisbury, NC
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Although I'm not "frightened" by people not caring about high quality audio, I do think that more titles would be released on SACD and DVD-Audio, if there was more of a demand for them. If people are satisfied with mp3-quality audio, then what's the incentive to produce a 5.1-channel, high quality mix? I'll add, though, that I'm not knocking mp3's -- I enjoy the portability and storage of mp3 (I can put 100 songs on a cd-r and play it in my car, for hours)..but at home, I enjoy my (few) SACD's and DVD-Audio disks a lot more, and I can definitely tell the difference between them and the mp3's (on my home theatre system, that is). | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Exactly!
There's a place for MP3s just like there's a place for vending machines, fast food, simple restaurants and fancy restaurants.
The problem is not always the ignorance of the average consumer, as some elitists would try to maintain, but rather that the average consumer has neither the money nor the desire.
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| | EnTRANCEd
join:2003-02-04
Dublin, CA
| said by djrobx :Never underestimate the human's desire to collect things. Television shows on DVD made 2.28 billion dollars in 2004, despite the fact that most were freely available on TV networks. Lots of people have huge DVD collections even though they only watch movies once. I think on demand content will be a huge player in the coming years, but a true paradigm shift away from collectable media will likely take much longer than a century. i know that rings true for me. once the bug hit me, i started collecting DVDs. i don't even get to watch most of them, it's just the fact of collecting them. from November of last year i think i collected 145 DVDs, and that's not counting each disc from a series (ie Friends).
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Life is all about ass ... either you are covering it, kicking it, kissing it, or trying to get it | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by vpoko :Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other. The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. I listen t some music through Rhapsody, but if it's anything I truly enjoy I get the CD. The difference is very noticeable.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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| p71rock
join:2003-06-16
Saint Clair, MI | Argg! then How am I suppose to get my Anime on DVD then.
Humm, RePlayTV then I guess. | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by 91439306 :Most people can't distinguish the difference because: a: they are listening on sub-$2,000 speakers b: they have never attended a classical music concert and have no idea what real music sounds like. c: a lot of people just never tried to tell the difference (ie: they never bothered to listen to the same song from different sources).
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
Eternity courses through my veins. | |
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UglyDork
Premium
join:2002-01-09
Buffalo, NY
 ·Vonage
| Discs are dead (of all kinds) If all kinds of disks are dead, then where will all the data that is served be stored on?
Some type of yet to be determined media?? 
Think about it.
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: Discs are dead (of all kinds) said by UglyDork :If all kinds of disks are dead, then where will all the data that is served be stored on? Some type of yet to be determined media?? Think about it. Never heard of solid state drives, eh?
-tom
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL | I imagine those little USB keys we carry around will eventually store hundreds of gigs of data, all on flash memory chips. No magneto-optical storage necessary.
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| | jboyo
join:2004-06-10
North York, ON | Re: Discs are dead (of all kinds) Already done.
There is (almost was) a company, www.go-l.com, that put a suped up custom version of XP on a massive Flash drive- instant boot (something like less than 2 seconds, I believe) | |
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| | jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Ever heard of optical memory, or the new memory Phillips is working on.
AKA 'Memory Cube'
My guess is the coming few years will yeald the long-awaited cube memory where a block the size of a sugar cube will be able to hold GB (eventually TB) of info at current USB drive prices. My guess is they will soon replace USB memory with optical, or Phillips' electrical. | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
3 edits | Hmmm isn't this article talking about....
(wth? my title isn't displayed in nested view?!)
Broadband distribution? | |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Flexibility? Not with DRM The biggest issue with flexibility is DRM and no fair-use.
People will soon get very angry when they discover the very limits of downloading LEGAL content.
I still will buy DVDs, because they give me more than DRM-loaded crap.
Audio CDs, well I just HATE riaa. They get nothing from me. If they start treating customers fairly, then we talk.
The outlook for internet-based content depends on how **AA handles that. P2P could be their ally, if used properly.
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anonzzzz
@sympatico.ca
| net replacing hdd's the average harddrive storage capacity is way too big to transfer over the net quickly. maybe what we need now is DVD sized (i mean its physical size) high-storage capacity ( 300 gigs )/ high speed drives/disks that let you basically take your harddrive with you wherever you go  . so basically an external harddrive the size of a dvd or summin with 100's of gigs of storage. | |
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Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| I don't believe it I don't think discs are dead in terms of video. DVD sales aren't falling off just yet. Now, some folks may say that this will change once broadband can deliver better video, but just wait until that DVD you can now buy turns into a pay-per-view movie over broadband. Hollywood may love that idea, but consumers won't. And even if a broadband connection can deliver NTSC video, what about a 1080i image? That'll take considerably more bandwidth.
As for audio, sadly, many people are choosing lossy compression over quality. With hard disk space so cheap, I can't see why. OK, they may want to send the files to a portable player. Then why not allow the compression to be done by the consumer? That way, they download a good-quality file, then they can compress it for portability. Personally, I won't buy music that sounds like crap, and I have a problem buying overpriced CDs, so I guess I don't really buy much music at all these days. Am I in the minority here? | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: I don't believe it Well, I don't buy much music either, but it's mainly for financial reasons. My budget is too tight to spend $15+ on a CD that I'll listen to once a month at most.
When I do buy CDs, however, I typically get them used. There are some really good deals to be had on Half.com, Amazon, and the like. The most damaged purchase I made was one where the case was shattered. I simply switched it out into a new case and it was as good as new.
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ | |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA
| I have all of the media I want (located in my optical non-moving parts high density 1" sq. computer wrapped in tin-foil, locked away and buried under a public park encased in concrete with an atomic battery and liquid nitrogen cooling and 1.2Gb encrypted wireless access to my LAN-- try pinning that on me **AA!!!).
I will buy none. Good NEW music/movies do not exist... it's all been done. and re-done and re-done. | |
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jboyo
join:2004-06-10
North York, ON | HA! Not with today's business models... Imagine trying to back up large data files when you ISP has puny caps!
I dont download much, but I backup dozen's of gigs of client data to disc.
I cant imagine when ISP's will be that flexible to allow this without psycho prices! | |
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| | Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: HA! Not with today's business models... yup... disk disappearing is more of a 22nd century prediction...
in this 21st century... its not going to happen not with how slow our communications networks are, and the lack for any company's will to upgrade it. | |
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Scree
In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24
Mount Laurel, NJ
·Comcast
| always fascinating So how many people still use video tapes? Quite a LOT, I bet. Discs will be around a long, long time, simply because they are the most common and affordable methods. I would love to see a little microchip thing able to store 1 TB someday, but that's just it... it's WAY off in the future, at least to be affordable. lol
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What is the mind? No matter. What is matter? Nevermind. UH-HEH-HEH-HEH | |
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| averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: always fascinating My wife tapes day-of-our-lives. She loves taping - it is easy and can be reused. She never has to worry about losing shows, unlike her dad who has lost shows with DVR. Stupid simple and easy to use. Yea I know, fuzzy picture and all, but she doesn't care, mostly listens while doing house stuff.
So the short answer for our family is - VHS tapes are here to stay. Not to mention the vast libarary of Disney videos on VHS. I am not about to loose that investment. | |
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netmasta
join:2004-06-06
Randolph, MA | Disks vs. Discs I doubt that discs e.g.: cd's & dvd's will be gone soon. But we can just forget about using floppy disks forever. I don't even remember the last time I used one.
BTW
disk = magnetic media
disc = optical media | |
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zentec
join:2002-01-05
Monroe, MI | Hey Wired! Never underestimate the bandwidth of a UPS truck filled with DVDs. | |
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| garrettm
join:2002-05-23
Beaverton, OR
| Re: Hey Wired! I agree with Zentec. The reason the optical disc has existed so long is that it is dirt cheap for a storage medium that is portable. This is an irresponsible statement by Wired Magazine. Are they saying by 2012 or 2007? All of us in this forum can predict that someday there will be a new storage medium and probably have 95% confidence in the statement. Most corporate business plans span 5yrs at most so I don't think I would go throwing out my optical disc plans over the next 5yrs.
I wonder what the neighborhood bandwidth looks like that allows everyone to watch a high definition movie that releases that day and will be watched at 7pm that night. What about the download limits? Will those go away in the next 5yrs? | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
| mmmm.... lets see if a ups truck hold lets say 1000 4gb dvds and has to travel 50 miles at 60 mph... how much bandwidth does it carry between the two location?
(1000 * 40 / ( (50 / 60) *60*60) = 1.3 gbps
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| | garrettm
join:2002-05-23
Beaverton, OR | Re: Hey Wired! I get 24Gbps.
Assuming a red disc is 9GBytes(dual layer) which is about 72Gbits.
Blue High def will be 50Gbytes(dual layer). So the UPS bandwidth(holding to your assumptions) will be 120Gbps.
UPS is looking better all the time. | |
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| tparker1
join:2004-09-29
Winston Salem, NC
| DVD's are not dead the Technology goes on besides we have had more than one Medium to store Movies/music on.VHS/CD/DVD/audio tape/Zip Drives/ so why can't Harddrives and DVD coexist?
I don't see a day where only One survives.Car Stereo's lack Clarity they have plenty of Bass although Upper Midrange and extreme High's have a lot of Improving to sound anywhere near a original Master Recording.I hate MP3's they sound terrible you can't polish a turd.Lets see we have DVD-Audio, SCCD and Dolby Digital 5.1 which sounds great for Movies although 5.1 is not a good Music Formst.As Harddrive Technology advances size wise Harddrives will be a lot more practicle than DVD's including Blu-Ray.
Harddrives playback what quality you put on them.
Younger Generation seem to care less about Quality Sound they will take Quanity over Quality nd it is up to Us older Generation to show them what Good Music Sounds like.I have LP's that sound better than a lot of CD's.Size and Music Studio's needed a New Medium where the Public would Buy a whole new Collection and it worked.CD's have less noise and more Bandwidth although some of the Music is Sterile to me there is no Soundstage and no You are there in second row expierence like you can get with the best LP's.Circuit Boards have something to do with this also the old Marantz Tube Amps and PreAmmps sounded a lot better to me.
I am not afraid of change I welcome Harddrives Big enough to hold all my Music that sound like Original Master Recordings .We are losing the Real Professionals that could run a SoundBoard and make sure that the Album sounded as good as it possibly could.We have Mixing Boards on Computers and Programs like Cool Edit Pro and there is a lot better 24 bit 192 khz Sampling rate Chips like the old Burr-Brown one's.I just hope that sound Quality doesn't die out like Classic Cars did .Now Cars are back in Vogue.
I will do my part to make sure Younger Generation gets to heara the difference between bad and good Sound Quality.When i listen to Music it is the Quality of Sound that makes me want to hear more of it.New Music is not like it was back in the 60's/70's .I hope Music doesn't die out to mediocricity.
Custom Hi-Fi Stores need to draw them in to where they can hear the Great Sounding Systems like Aragon/Krell/Mark levingston on the High-end there is cheaper Equipment that sounds better than the 500 Dollar Best Buys/circuit Citys.
I can take 300 dollar Klipch Speakers,Velodyne Subwoofer and a 500 Dollar Carver Amp with a Adcom Preamp with a good Cd Player from NAD and enjoy Music the way it was intended to Sound
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Hey Wired! While I don't agree all mp3's sound like polished turds I will say that there are other formats that blow them out of the water quality-wise. Vinyl is an inferior recording medium no matter how you slice it (more fragile, less frequency response, lower signal to noise ratio), but as someone else said CD media won't turn garbage into jewels. Sounds like you prefer live recording setups, which do in fact lend themselves better to warm vinyl audio than crisp compact disc digital.
Vinyl records still has their uses and thankfully are still being made. I'm sure CDs will be around for quite a while too. | |
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| jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Re: Won't happen soon said by Omega:
Several ISP's are imposing caps, how will they feel when you can download movies that transfer gigabytes of data (legally).
More than likely the video content will be delivered over a 'separate channel' that is not metered.
The internet connection can still be metered though, as they are probably run through separate routers within the same network. (one transfers video, the other transferes metered internet)
said by Omega:
I, for one prefer to have a physical copy. I'll take the CD or DVD over downloadable content any day.
I have a #*&$-load of CDs in CD racks and laying around, if you like discs thats good and well. Personally, I would like to start ridding of discs. | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| It's not hi-fi disc vs low-fi downloads... ...it's pay for a disc vs download for free. Most people don't care about a loss of quality as long as it's free. The few people who use services like iTunes (few when compared to those who download for free or even though who purchase CDs) have complained if those services don't at least use higher quality compressed files (instead of the super low quality highly compressed crap often found on P2P).
People will take anything, if it's free. But if they have to pay for it, people want quality.
People seem to be more then willing to purchase a high quality DVD set of their favorite TV show or movie instead of taping it off the TV with low quality VHS tapes.
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
Eternity courses through my veins. | |
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BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| quality of mp3s isn't that bad I think a lot of people are underestimating the quality of mp3 files that can be found on most p2p networks. For most songs (unless it's really rare or really old), it's very easy to find an mp3 encoded in at least 192kbps, which most people will have a hard time distinguishing from the original, especially if it's encoded with lame. With the newer songs, I've found that many are VBR-encoded in lame, at probably the alt-standard preset. The quality of that file will be completely indistinguishable on all but the most high-end of equipment.
The people flocking to buy heavily compressed stuff from itunes are mostly sheep who don't know any better, but they are not the majority. | |
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See 13 replies to this post |
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Whatever12
@anonymizer.com | Wired sucks Like many of the authors in this very tired magazine, Robert Capps is clueless. Discs will be around for a very long time to come. | |
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Bigpoppa206
@comcast.net | Re: Wired sucks Hahaha, ok, you keep telling yourself that when your discs start failng. | |
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Whatever12
@anonymizer.com
| Re: Wired sucks I've got CD's approaching 25 years that play absolutely perfectly. I've got records dating back to twice that age that play great too. Stamped CD's can last hundreds of years. Now if you're talking about burned CD's, I hear you. I've got stuff I burned from 10 years ago that have significantly deteriorated. I'm going to have to get those onto DVD or some other media shortly. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| That's a myth propagated by vinyl record zealots at that time. Only CDR and CD-RW have a limited lifespan, and mostly for the earlier ones. Factory pressed CDs do not have any dyes that fade over time (which was the big myth's explanation on why you shouldn't get into CD technology). | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Capps is missing something.... Robert Capps in Wired argues that Discs (of all kinds) are so 20th century, the glorious future is fat pipes (WiMax and better broadband) and download-on-demand.
Obviously Mr. Capps doesn't read our news like we read his. He would change his mind if he read all of our horror stories about port blocking and bandwidth limitations.
What good are these "fat pipes" if we can't even use them...
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. | |
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magicalpig9
Magical Pig
join:2000-11-04
Austin, TX
| I've been discless for years now! I've never owned a standalone DVD player. I don't have a standalone CD player. My home network server holds all my music and video. It lives in a closet, out of sight, out of earshot. All my plastic discs are there too, boxed up, where I don't have to look at them. A diskless computer in the living room is digitally connected to the TV and stereo.
Capps is right: This is the way of the future.
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I ride the short bus to school! | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: I've been discless for years now! but online distribution is in the ditches. | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | Good for you!
Now get it out of your home... | |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA | how much storage capacity do you have for your server? is it mirrored/raid? | |
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| | magicalpig9
Magical Pig
join:2000-11-04
Austin, TX
| Re: I've been discless for years now! Unfortunately, it is necessary to maintain the server myself. I know of no subscription streaming service that can even come close.
The server has ten drives with just over 1.8TB total capacity. Several drives are appended into larger logical drives using lvm under linux. Rather than keeping the backups on the server, where a single catastrophic event could take out all ten drives, selective backups are kept on a completely separate machine with considerably less disk space.
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I ride the short bus to school! | |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA
| Re: I've been discless for years now! cool, i was wondering how much disk space i could get away with for my setup. i think that sounds about right 1.5-2TB. right now i have all my stuff on different machines (all networked & connected to TV/stereo of course), but i plan on building a single central server. | |
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Zealous
join:2002-11-20
Baldwin, NY
| Quality vs format It really saddens me that I have LPs that sound 100x more realistic then most of todays CDs. This is not to say that current media is worse then past tech but more in that art of recording music properly has been lost for quite some time.
The purpose of high end audio is to be able to reproduce as closely as possible the original performance. If the performance or recording was poor then it should sound poor.
Once you have heard a quality performance on a quality system you will be amazed, it is as if the performers are in the room playing right in front of you.
Compression, regardless of how little = loss. | |
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| Andoh
join:2001-02-18
Bettendorf, IA | Re: Quality vs format I'll take the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio of a CD over the ticks and pops of an LP after each has been played 20 times.
LP's are too fragile and tend to skip when playing them in my JEEP | |
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Bigpoppa206
@comcast.net | Re: Quality vs format I've got LPs and 12" singles that are over 25 years old and no scratches or skips. Maybe its the way you care for your things? | |
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PlagueX1
Plague
join:2004-08-27
Twining, MI
| I don't think so Not everyone has High Speed internet, and not everyone will. It will end up being into the far future that everyone will have high speed, still theres going to be some people without it. And Disks area a way to easily move data. I completely disagree with Robert Capp in Wired. | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| CD or DVD will never be replaced CD or DVD will never be replaced. The word is Longevity. With CD and DVD, the media is mine as long as the disc last. I still have CD I have bought in 1984. Compared to Comcast On Demand for Videos and Rhapsody for music where one month I find something I like but gone the next. Furthermore as a Classical music connoisseur, it is difficult to find classical music in a searchable format except for rhapsody. Much of the on-line music is geared to separate young people from their money. Rhapsody has don better by offering whole symphonies instead of select movements. Apple and Napster are appalling. | |
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| barky
Premium
join:2001-03-17
San Diego, CA
|  Re: CD or DVD will never be replaced
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: CD or DVD will never be replaced Pretty much forever...A few brands of the first CDs would lose their aluminization and developed disk "mold", but that's a thing of the past.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. | |
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Bigpoppa206
@comcast.net | Re: CD or DVD will never be replaced You ARE kidding right? CDs AND DVDs can and WILL fail eventually. It may take them a few years but it does happen. | |
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| | | | Blisk
join:2001-01-15
Orlando, FL
| Re: CD or DVD will never be replaced yea i gotta agree with bigpoppa, esp with cd-r's ect.... the very best will only last ~50 years (those kodak cdr-s and other high end brands) and thats if its burned with a good burner.
pressed discs will probably have a logevity around that, supposedly its around 75-100 years but even then i doubt that as i've had a few cds (well cdrs) go bad on me after just a few years. | |
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NoelC
D S L R Bliss
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-03
Florida
| Anecdote Just yesterday I was called in to solve a problem...
Two of three required CDs (of data) had been overnighted to a testing lab. Someone from our company was onsite, but waiting another day for another overnight shipment of the remaining CD was not an option.
To make a long story short, I uploaded a 500 MB .iso file onto our ftp server, provided the URL to our man onsite, and he downloaded it and burned a CD. A quick CRC check verified the proper data had been recorded. Problem solved.
500 MB is not insignificant, and it took a few minutes to actually transfer the data (which actually went across the country several times given our company communications infrastructure), but that's minutes, not days. Makes me wonder why we're still FedExing CDs around in the general case.
-Noel | |
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| Blisk
join:2001-01-15
Orlando, FL
| Re: Anecdote yea sure its possible... but until a majority of people can upload at that speed without either being capped or having a limitation on their broadband where they can only upload 3 cds worth of content a month then it won't happen.
I'm not sure whats with the lack of investment lately into broadband, or the sudden popularity of capping, limiting bandwidth ect., but it seems like corporations are feeling ever so threatened by the internet and don't have any real incentive to improve the networks.
not to sound like a conspiracy theorist or anything but server-client models seemed to keep control on how content that wasn't to be seen got out, now with p2p there seems to be some real resistance to it. | |
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Derfel
join:2004-06-06
Winnipeg, MB | Discs gone? eh? So discs are so "20th Century" then?
Well, that's sure to happen any day now. Let me just get into my flying car and eat my pill-meal and I'll get right back to you on that one. | |
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StillNotRegistered
@verizon.net
| Re: Discs gone? eh? Exactly.
I mean, so what if discs are dead or not? What am I supposed to do with this so-called information, take this into account when deciding on investing in "disc futures" or something?
This magazine and all in its over-glossed, over-stylized, overly popularized class on a wide range of topics, including such fare as Time, Newsweek and their ilk all do the same useless thing. They take an idea or a bit of information and expound upon it with lots of over-wrought and flowery verbiage that lends little if any knowledge or understanding of the topic. Every time I do succumb to the temptation, I find myself feeling cheated for having wasted the time and effort to read these articles instead of doing just about anything else!
Wired seems to be the ultimate example of this. | |
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Whatever12
@anonymizer.com | Re: Discs gone? eh? Excellent post. | |
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