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story category Customers Lose VoIP Numbers to Slamming
Vonage, Packet8 customers are not pleased
(old news - 01:05PM Saturday Mar 01 2008)
tags: business · trouble · VoIP · consumers
It’s been reported again and again that Vonage makes it difficult for customers to cancel their VoIP service once they’ve signed up. However, recent cases are pointing to the fact that people who don’t even sign up for Vonage service are having difficulties with the company. Russell Shaw at ZDNet has been reporting on just such a case this week in which Vonage managed to assign a Packet8 VoIP customer’s phone number to one of Vonage’s new subscribers. This left the Packet8 subscriber without phone service

Vonage apparently told the customer that Packet8 would need to be responsible for taking the number back. Packet8 hasn’t been particularly helpful in the situation given that they have told the customer that he needs to contact the company that got the number in order to get it back from them. The case is now being handled by attorneys.

This case is not the first case in which Packet8 customers have lost the numbers that they were assigned and using. A recent report from our forums reveals that the same thing happened to another Packet8 customer who was told by the company’s customer service that the customer would need to start calling other VoIP companies to find out who took the number. A representative wrote into the forums to say that it's probably a slamming issue and should be something that can be resolved with customer service. The issue is still being dealt with by the customer.

Related:
  1. Vonage Tries to Keep Customers
  2. Skype Takes Heat For Chinese Censorship
  3. Bright House Slams Verizon On FiOS Grounding
  4. Sacramento VoIP, SMS Tax Starts Tomorrow
  5. Tech Media Discovers FCC Staffed With Dunces, Lobbyists
  6. Qwest Ordered To Restore Services To SkyWi
  7. VoIP Dead, Not Dead, Depending Who You Ask
  8. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
Forums » Customers Lose VoIP Numbers to Slamming
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Post a:

Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

F*&! VOIP

That's the Mickey Mouse kind of crap that will forever not make me switch to these shi++y VOIP fly-by-nights.

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com

Re: F*&! VOIP

said by Goober See Profile :

That's the Mickey Mouse kind of crap that will forever not make me switch to these shi++y VOIP fly-by-nights.
Vonage ever takes my number from anywhere I'll file suit in the range of $100 million. $10,000 in damages and a $99,990,000 in punitive damages. Slamming is illegal so I'll get something.

If a LD company slams you, you get 150% of your LD bill for the month or months the slammer sharged you. Just do it within 90 days.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl
DMS1

join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX

Re: F*&! VOIP

said by supergirl See Profile :

Slamming is illegal so I'll get something.
Slamming is when your phone provider is changed without your agreement. This isn't the case here. Instead, a person's number is allegedly being given to someone else, presumably leaving the original owner with no incoming phone service.

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com

Re: F*&! VOIP

said by DMS1 See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

Slamming is illegal so I'll get something.
Slamming is when your phone provider is changed without your agreement. This isn't the case here. Instead, a person's number is allegedly being given to someone else, presumably leaving the original owner with no incoming phone service.
Then it's fraud violating the LNP system.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl

chris
Whimmy Wham Wham Wazzle
Premium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT

Vongage will be gone soon anyway

... it's only a matter of time before they are sued out of existence.

devicemanage
Premium
join:2002-03-16
Chalfont, PA

Re: Vongage will be gone soon anyway

Happened to a friend of mine too! The ended up staying with Vonage because they didn't want to lose a number they had for 20 years.
--
»www.devicemanager.net
DMS1

join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX

Re: Vongage will be gone soon anyway

said by devicemanage See Profile :

Happened to a friend of mine too! The ended up staying with Vonage because they didn't want to lose a number they had for 20 years.
Not that I don't believe you, but I'm cynical. If Vonage had somehow ported his number then they would have had to port it to someones account. Therefore, your friend would have temporarily lost it at that point anyway. Once the "mistake" was spotted it shouldn't have been much harder to port it back to its original home than to move it from the Vonage customer who got it to your friend's new account.

devicemanage
Premium
join:2002-03-16
Chalfont, PA
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Vongage will be gone soon anyway

Well there was much more to the story.

Vonage claimed the number was in the process of being ported for months. My friends were not able to receive a call on that number either. After some investigation and a whole bunch of calls to both telco's, they found that the number was stuck at the carrier with incomplete information. Both telco's were pointing the finger at each other. Neither mentioned anything about a carrier. The receiveing telco basically just catches the number. It seemed to me that Vonage might have left something out. The porting process was canceled and submitted multiple times when months was given when they stated that all they need was weeks. They are still a Vonage customer after all and so am I and there is nothing wrong with the service.

dodgetech2

join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·Vonage

said by chris See Profile :

... it's only a matter of time before they are sued out of existence.
if I had a dollar for every time I saw this posted, I could start my own VOIP company.

chris
Whimmy Wham Wham Wazzle
Premium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT

Re: Vongage will be gone soon anyway

said by dodgetech2 See Profile :

said by chris See Profile :

... it's only a matter of time before they are sued out of existence.
if I had a dollar for every time I saw this posted, I could start my own VOIP company.
agreed! although you have to admit - they seem to keep losing
alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA

Cheap Telco Service!

It all has to do with the cost of Telephone Service, people think the cheaper the better. The Telco's had everything under control, and then the VoIP Providers started popping up and Number Portability came into play. That means that a customer could take the number assigned to him to what ever Carrier they wanted. This is not an easy task, in order for your number to work and ring that phone it has to be built into the System. In the old days it was hard wired, but now it's all in software still not an easy task. Providers don't like pulling these numbers in and out of their Systems at the drop of a hat. With so much competition out there, you can see where keeping the numbers and keeping the cost down is almost impossible.

Linsys

@myvzw.com

Re: Cheap Telco Service!

When did the Teleco's have "things under control" have you ever called Qwest? I'm surprised I have dial tone most days with the idiots that work there.

There customer service is horrible when you call in you get transfered to a 100 different departments none of which can help you with your problem, then you get India who tells you to "Reboot Your Computer" then you have to remind them you are calling about Phone service NOT DSL.

Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA

VoIP is not dead

Hybrid VoIP solutions used my most major cable companies are much better. Also it's less likely one of these corporations will simply disappear overnight.

This looks really bad though. These smaller outfits (including Vonage) should work something out because it's this kind of publicity costing them new customers.

But then again majority of people have Wal-Mart mentality and go for the cheaper service. That's why companies like Teleblend still exist.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast

VoIP is the best thing since sliced bread

Most subscribers do not take full advantage of VoIP. One of my neighbors, who happened to be retired, was about to embark on their annual migration to New England for the summer. They asked me what to do with their VoIP telephone number. I told them to take their VoIP Interface with them and plug it into their Broadband connection up North. They did and it worked. They thought it was a miracle. Shortly after they connected their VoIP Interface to their broadband connection at their New England Residence, they received a call on their South Florida Telephone Number. With VoIP the Subscriber has true number portability. One advantage of not having ones telephone number tied to a particular network allows the subscriber to receive calls from that number anywhere there is a broadband connection. These people also had a telephone number local to their New England location assigned to the second port on the VoIP Interface. That way their friends could call them while the Wintered in South Florida without incurring toll charges. When they visited their Son in Europe they brought their VoIP Interface with them and were able to make and receive calls to and from the United States without incurring outrageous toll charges. I hope that Vonage can get their problems resolved otherwise the consumer will fall victim to the predatory practices of competitors.

jhacker

join:2001-12-11
Peoria, IL

Advertising Claims

...and when Vonage advertises 'a number for life' they really mean it!!
DMS1

join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX

Why blame Vonage?

I would have thought that this is more likely to be Packet 8's problem than Vonage's. VOIP companies don't own any phone numbers. Instead, they partner with CLECs that provide the numbers, since it is them who are responsible for terminating incoming POTS calls. It sounds suspiciously like Vonage and Packet 8 were using the same CLEC in this case and somehow when Packet 8 assigned the number originally it didn't get removed from the CLEC's free-number pool. In this case, Vonage would have assigned it in good faith.

dodgetech2

join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·Vonage


edit:
March 1st, @09:15PM

Re: Why blame Vonage?

said by DMS1 See Profile :

I would have thought that this is more likely to be Packet 8's problem than Vonage's. VOIP companies don't own any phone numbers. Instead, they partner with CLECs that provide the numbers, since it is them who are responsible for terminating incoming POTS calls. It sounds suspiciously like Vonage and Packet 8 were using the same CLEC in this case and somehow when Packet 8 assigned the number originally it didn't get removed from the CLEC's free-number pool. In this case, Vonage would have assigned it in good faith.
Because its easier to blame Vonage..all the cool kids are doing it now..:)

voipper

@comcast.net

Works in both directions....

I lost my Vonage number to a Comcast customer, who requested it. Comcast gave it happily away, of course...
Well, and cancelled my account, cause i had no number any more... At least, they are consistent in their decisions.
I'm with Comcast now, let's see how this works out.
nbicomputers

join:2002-03-31
Bronx, NY

money

i saw a post here that said the customer would get 150% of their LD bill
What about lost money?
Running a small bis out of a home or anywhere for that matter a lost phone could you thousands of bucks in lost business if your customers can't find you because one day your phone just stops working
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Re: money

said by nbicomputers See Profile :

i saw a post here that said the customer would get 150% of their LD bill
What about lost money?
Running a small bis out of a home or anywhere for that matter a lost phone could you thousands of bucks in lost business if your customers can't find you because one day your phone just stops working
That's where the attorneys get involved.

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com

Re: money

said by ISurfTooMuch See Profile :

said by nbicomputers See Profile :

i saw a post here that said the customer would get 150% of their LD bill
What about lost money?
Running a small bis out of a home or anywhere for that matter a lost phone could you thousands of bucks in lost business if your customers can't find you because one day your phone just stops working
That's where the attorneys get involved.
Yep. If lost business, sue with a lawyer. Consumers only get 150% of the LD bill from the new carrier. But, customers never get it since they don't know to request it. Of course, nobody knows what you are talking about when you request it. It is an FCC regulation though. But, only if done within the first 90 days.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl

landline4me

@rcn.com

landline

get a real landline from at&t, verizon, embark, fairpoint, or whoever your local ILEC is.

stay way from these cheap voip providers..u get what u pay for!

TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it

join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
·EarthLink

Never, ever an issue with VoIP !!

I have never had a problem with billing, slamming, unidentified outages with my phone service...I don't use VoIP .. Let's see a VoIP provider BEAT ..$15.00/mo UNLIMITED LD...and near 100% uptime and on demand when I need it with cyrstal clear calling..

GEE ..I most ne a LandLobber on a LandLine ..
--
Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.
nozzer

join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Never, ever an issue with VoIP !!

I dont believe for a minute that $15 is the true cost of your "unlimited LD". Add up all the line charges, "bundling" discounts, fees and taxes and I'll be surprised if it comes in much under $50

I've had flawless service from Vonage for 5 years now, and have unlimited calls to Western Europe as well has the whole of North America for about $30 after taxes and fees. This includes all the vonage features, which also allow me to forward or simulring a number anywhere, including western europe, for free. I get voicemail in my email, and with VonageTalk I can pick up calls on my laptop when I'm travelling. Bet your crappy POTS can't do that.

noz

TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it

join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
·EarthLink

Re: Never, ever an issue with VoIP !!

said by nozzer See Profile :

I dont believe for a minute that $15 is the true cost of your "unlimited LD". Add up all the line charges, "bundling" discounts, fees and taxes and I'll be surprised if it comes in much under $50

noz
Ha Ha Ha ...that was pretty good ! ..But, Yup ..checked mah bill and there it is .. 15 buker-ooh's for unlimited LD, anytime !!

Mind you it's stripped down landline for my DSL, so those added charges/fees are for DSL. And, since I have the landline anyway, I just put a phone on it and make FREE unlimited local calls and inbound calls to the house.

What's really cool though ..is I use my cell phone for over 600 minutes a month for only $33.05. Since my cellphone number is a local call...I access my vox mail without using primetime minutes ..SPRINT eat your heart out...!

Hey .. just kidding with yah too..!!

It all boils down to "how yah gonnah use it"..yah know. VoIP just dosen't fit what I want to do.

Oh BTW .. once Sprint gets "decent" data coverage in my area, the L/L & DSL go away and I get an aircard for my router .. can't wait for it to happen..that will lob $60/mo off even paying for the data service....

Take care
--
Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.

SNT
Premium
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL

I don't know

I have had Vonage since Apr 18, 2003. I have yet to have a major outage. I really can't recall it being out at all, but I am sure it has for a short period of time at some point. I still have my original Cisco 186 ATA going strong. Vonage has been nothing but solid for me.

-SNT
JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

Why Do Research?? .. Just Blame Vonage


DMS1 has correctly identified the source of the described problem.

said by DMS1 See Profile :

I would have thought that this is more likely to be Packet 8's problem than Vonage's. VOIP companies don't own any phone numbers. Instead, they partner with CLECs that provide the numbers, since it is them who are responsible for terminating incoming POTS calls. It sounds suspiciously like Vonage and Packet 8 were using the same CLEC in this case and somehow when Packet 8 assigned the number originally it didn't get removed from the CLEC's free-number pool. In this case, Vonage would have assigned it in good faith.
But why research it and ID the CLEC that's at fault? If Vonage appears anywhere in the facts list, just blame them. This has absolutely nothing to do with Slamming, but is a number assignment problem.

La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
·Vonage
·Optimum Online

Re: Why Do Research?? .. Just Blame Vonage

said by JohnA See Profile :

DMS1 has correctly identified the source of the described problem.

said by DMS1 See Profile :

I would have thought that this is more likely to be Packet 8's problem than Vonage's. VOIP companies don't own any phone numbers. Instead, they partner with CLECs that provide the numbers, since it is them who are responsible for terminating incoming POTS calls. It sounds suspiciously like Vonage and Packet 8 were using the same CLEC in this case and somehow when Packet 8 assigned the number originally it didn't get removed from the CLEC's free-number pool. In this case, Vonage would have assigned it in good faith.
But why research it and ID the CLEC that's at fault? If Vonage appears anywhere in the facts list, just blame them. This has absolutely nothing to do with Slamming, but is a number assignment problem.
ding ding ding ^^ Winners.

Just more FUD caused by a few anecdotal cases of number porting screw ups. A far cry from "fly by night" VoIP carriers going "under" because of bad service. I don't have bad service with Vonage, in fact, just the opposite and it's certainly better than paying hundreds of $$ per month for LD calls, which I was previously doing. "$15" for unlimited POTS LD? HA, not around here! A BASIC phone line costs $65/month, before they add their outrageous LD charges.

How long does a company have to be in business before it's no longer "fly by night" anyway?
--
10,656 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~TEAM DISCOVERY
Can't feel you anymore, don't need you anymore, don't believe you anymore, I don't need you anymore

poopon

@comcast.net

Re: Why Do Research?? .. Just Blame Vonage

forget all that just get comcast believe it or not its even better than verizons fios. Fios is soo expensive to maintain those cords are sooo delicate its not worth it. I know ive worked for both companys
ed56

join:2008-01-13
Cincinnati, OH
·Vonage

Non Sequitur - but it is soooo much fun to slam Vonage

There is little doubt that this probably is the CLEC. From a different blog/forum, the customer was quoted as saying:

. . . "[his attorney] contacted both Vonage and Packet8. They were able to get more information from Vonage than me, but also got a different explanation of what happened from Vonage than the one I got from Packet8."

In the "orginal" story about this instance on that blog/forum, the autohor wrote:

"Are you ready for another Vonage horror story"

The author in this blog/forum writes:

"It’s been reported again and again that Vonage makes it difficult for customers to cancel their VoIP service once they’ve signed up"

Both cases, a Non Sequitur! But it is soooo much fun to slam Vonage, isnt it!

Heat305

join:2007-01-11
El Paso, TX

Avoid These Guys

Staw away from Vonage and P8 people.

packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:

Pools

Pools of number are provided to the providers.

Looks like vonage was assigned number that packet8 already had the rights too..

Woooopsie
--
Reach out and Tap someone!
GoHardGoDeep

join:2007-07-18
Rio Rancho, NM
·Teleblend

Re: Pools

And of course, that underlying carrier is NEVER going to get the amount of bad press that Vonage or P8 does. If either Vonage or P8 does, then all their customers on that carrier are going to suffer because that carrier will make their lives miserable.

elmoso

@bms.com

In defense of Varbage

When I used to work for Vonage. We used to get these types of calls, not as often as you think, but now and then I would get a call like this. What would happen is someone intentionally would sign up to Vonage's business line using someone else's number or vice versa. A Vonage business client would have their number stolen by a competitor. I'm not sure how this fell through the cracks, as the number is supposed to be verified that it is owned by the person. However it maybe, this really did not involve the carrier. Vonage or the other company would put the request through to have the number either ported out/in. When a report came in for a slammed number. We would require prove the number was owned by the person calling in. The LNP dept. would require prove and go back to the paper work and try to get the number back from the other carrier. During the time I worked there and had tickets logged in for these types of cases. They would be resolved. There were some instances where the Vonage LNP department could not get the number back. This is when the customer would be referred back to the carrier now holding the number. I'm not sure what happened next after the LNP dept couldn't restore their number. To get this to go through successful. The other carrier has to agree on releasing the number and most of the time. The other carrier would not cooperate and the number would be lost and stolen. So no, it is not Vonage's fault for loosing the number. Someone did something illegal and the new carrier would just keep the number. It was out of the hands of Vonage at this point.

bennythepitbull

@rcn.net

PIC freeze

Any one ever here of this? PIC freeze
GPershing

join:2007-02-06
San Francisco, CA

New FCC Rules re VoIP Numbers Promulgated - Rulemaking Open

In October the FCC announced new rules that makes number portability rules apply to interconnected VoIP providers as well.

QUOTE

"The FCC made clear that the obligation to provide local number portability extends to interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol providers and the telecommunications carriers that obtain numbers for them. This action was, in part, a response to numerous complaints by consumers about their inability to port numbers to or from interconnected VoIP providers.

END QUOTE

The FCC also released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking seeking comment on additional issues related to VoIP and number. Recently the FCC published the order and notice in the Federal Register, setting for the date by which the rules must be complied with, and initiating the time to receive comments related to the rulemaking.

»www.cybertelecom.org/voip/numbers.htm
Forums » Customers Lose VoIP Numbers to Slamming


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