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Credit Suisse: Sprint/Lightsquared Deal to be Announced Soon
Lightsquared Will Lease Access to 45,000 Sprint Base Stations
You may have noted that Lightsquared is certainly talking a lot for a company that doesn't actually have an LTE network built yet -- something that many correctly point out when expressing skepticism about whether or not the company pulls their LTE plans off. However, as we noted in an exclusive story in March, a big portion of Lightsquared's plans involve piggybacking on Sprint's planned $5 billion base-station retrofit, which is being done in part to help Sprint transition from Mobile WiMax to LTE. Credit Suisse now insists that the deal should be announced within a month, closely followed by a new network sharing deal with Clearwire with Sprint in the driver's seat:
quote:
"We assume LightSquared leases access to all 45,000 Sprint base stations, giving them a nationwide network. We assume they lease base stations at the pace that Sprint installs them, with lease payments starting at the beginning of 2012 and covering all 45,000 base stations by the end of 2013. We assume Clearwire leases 28,000 base stations to expand coverage to another 70 million POPs and replace some of their existing base stations. Clearwire will need an estimated 12,000 base stations in addition to the base stations they lease from Sprint, because they have higher frequency spectrum than Sprint (we assume Sprint's network will be configured for 1.9GHz spectrum, which has greater reach than Clearwire's 2.5GHz spectrum)."
According to the Sprint network roadmap, their network upgrade project involves having Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson and Samsung retrofit every Sprint cell site, eliminating the refrigerator-sized cabinets for each technology (800 MHz, 1.9 GHz and 2.5 GHz) in favor of small, more energy efficient multi-mode base stations. While Sprint publicly is playing coy about whether or not they'll make the shift to LTE, the decision has already been made -- Mobile WiMax and LTE networks will be run simultaneously at first -- and Clearwire and Lightsquared will play a very large role in the transition.
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Grothendieck
Premium Member
join:2002-07-28
Miami, FL

Grothendieck

Premium Member

LTE

So i assume my Epic 4G wont work on the new LTE? My download/uploads speeds with WiMax are excellent, however the ping is terrible. I assume this is because of the high frequency.

Offtopic (i hope you guys dont mind answering this): how come i have full bars on my 4G in my house, yet the phone signal is weak (sometimes no bars, and sometmes only one bar) and i cant even make phone calls inside my house else it will drop etc. I have to go outside so i can place the call and still get weak signal. If i have full 4G bars, it means i have a 4G tower near, but isnt the 4G equiptment mounted on a Sprint tower? So that same tower should give me good calling signal? Im just brainstorming, dont really know the details.

GPS
@insightbb.com

GPS

Anon

Re: LTE

Sprint CDMA is 1900 MHz. It does not penetrate buildings as well as 850 MHz. It could also be on a different tower than your WiMAX connection, thus the difference in signal strength. You might look into getting the femtocell from Sprint if you have a broadband internet connection at home.

Gotalk2Bob
@verizon.net

Gotalk2Bob

Anon

Re: LTE

said by GPS :

Sprint CDMA is 1900 MHz. It does not penetrate buildings as well as 850 MHz. It could also be on a different tower than your WiMAX connection, thus the difference in signal strength. You might look into getting the femtocell from Sprint if you have a broadband internet connection at home.

There are a lot of co located sites between Sprint and Clearwire depending on the market. Most colocated sites have the antennas on the same rad center. The difference in signal strength comes from the different frequencies. 800/900, 1.9, and 2.5 all propagate differently. The lower the frequency the farther it will go.

spikedude
@sprint.com

spikedude

Anon

Re: LTE

You're statements re: co-location and propagation are correct but do not answer the question. Clearwire's WiMax network runs at 2.5Ghz and therefore has worse in-building penetration that Sprint's CDMA voice network on 1.9GHz. (The current use of 800/900 for iDEN has nothing to do with the question.) Since you have good WiMax signal but weak CDMA signal, it is likely that you are near a Clearwire tower that is not loaded with Sprint's voice radios.
glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

glinc to Grothendieck

Member

to Grothendieck
Just switch to Verizon and you will get better signal and don't have to worry about a technology that will be discontinued soon by Sprint.

TSWYO
Premium Member
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY

TSWYO

Premium Member

Re: LTE

And pay $60 more a month... yes thats right... I signed up for Sprint in August 2010, not on any crazy plan... For me to have the same features on VZ it is $60 more a month. I've had minor issues over the past few months, but I am a happy customer!

Grothendieck
Premium Member
join:2002-07-28
Miami, FL

1 edit

Grothendieck

Premium Member

Re: LTE

said by TSWYO:

And pay $60 more a month... yes thats right... I signed up for Sprint in August 2010, not on any crazy plan... For me to have the same features on VZ it is $60 more a month. I've had minor issues over the past few months, but I am a happy customer!

Oh same here!

I pay $230 with taxes included for a family plan of 5. Each family member gives me their part and it comes out to $46 per line with the plan of Everything Data Family or something, which is everything unlimited even minutes to any cell phone from any carrier.

sally123
@spcsdns.net

sally123 to glinc

Anon

to glinc
When and if Sprint moves to LTE they will still support WiMax so do yourself a favor and stay with a carrier that is constantly innovating.

Smart_hahh
@thvilledigital.net

Smart_hahh to Grothendieck

Anon

to Grothendieck
Hi,

Not all of the 4G equipment is on Sprint towers.

Call Sprint and get a Airave, it will hook to your dsl or cable internet and give you great signal
Expand your moderator at work

SprintHelp
@sprint.com

SprintHelp to Grothendieck

Anon

to Grothendieck
The Clearwire towers only share space with a few Sprint towers, so based on your experience I would say that a 4G tower is very close while you are probably in the middle of a couple of Sprint towers but on the edge of support. An airave will help and depending on your market, the retrofit will increase existing coverage significantly so you may not need a femtocell going forward.

GPS
@insightbb.com

GPS

Anon

Re: LTE

Airave is a femtocell. Here is a review of the old one that can still be bought for around $50.

»reviews.cnet.com/cell-ph ··· 984.html

sedseds
@spcsdns.net

sedseds to Grothendieck

Anon

to Grothendieck
that's because 4g is for data only.....has nothing to do with voice.

Grothendieck
Premium Member
join:2002-07-28
Miami, FL

Grothendieck

Premium Member

Re: LTE

said by sedseds :

that's because 4g is for data only.....has nothing to do with voice.

Did you not read what I said?

I know 4G is data only, but I thought 4G equiptment was always mounted on Sprint towers. The fact I had full 4G bars implied to me that the tower of my calling signal was therefore at the same distance and hence I should have a lot better calling signal.

Nextel
@t-mobile.com

Nextel

Anon

Re: LTE

Clearwire co-locates with Nextel as well. You may be hanging on one of those sites for data while the Sprint site is further out. You need to be real close to Clearwire's antenna's to be getting that kind of speed

Trekka
@clearwire-wmx.net

Trekka to Grothendieck

Anon

to Grothendieck
You have full bars for 4G at your house and not on your 3G signal because Clearwire sites are not all co-located with sprint sites. Clearwire may be on a closer tower to your home than Sprints 3G site.

Grothendieck
Premium Member
join:2002-07-28
Miami, FL

Grothendieck

Premium Member

Re: LTE

Yes I understand now

I thought the 4G equiptment was concurrent with Sprint cell towers.

GPS
@insightbb.com

GPS

Anon

What about GPS Interference?

LIghtsquared is really getting ahead of themselves. If they think the whole engineering/construction/defense industry is going to stand by and let GPS signals be interfered with by their proposed mobile network, then they are NUTS!

GPS is not just for navigation. As we speak, roads/bridges/structures/pipelines/developments etc. are being planned and built using survey grade GPS. Airplanes are using GPS for guidance. Some missiles even have GPS receivers in them. CDMA base stations even rely on GPS receivers. There are many more applications for GPS that I'm not even mentioning. The cost savings from using GPS for such purposes, as compared to the alternatives, are in the BILLIONS.

Filters in GPS receivers to block interference? Is the cost of replacing millions of functioning GPS receivers built into the proposed financing for Lightsquared?

This issue should have been thoroughly researched early on.

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

1 edit

1 recommendation

n2jtx

Member

Re: What about GPS Interference?

According to an article from the Associated Press (see »news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2011 ··· _threats), the FCC and Lightsquared are taking the GPS industry to task and are putting the blame squarely in their lap:
quote:
Moreover, LightSquared and the FCC say the GPS industry should have been preparing for a ground-based network nearby since the FCC first allowed backup wireless systems in that space in 2003.
This is a pretty good indication to me that the FCC will grant final approval on June 15th. As I have posted before, when I follow the money trail of winner and losers, there are too many "important" winners who will have a fit if this does not go forward:

1) Lightsquared: their project gets built and the Wall Street investment houses get paid back many times their $14 billion investment. They can certainly afford to grease a few palms in order to get approval.

2) Manufacturers of GPS devices: All the non-functioning devices, because of LightSquared interference, will need to be replaced and someone has to make and sell them. Auto manufacturers can sell replacement on-board navigation equipment and overcharge for them like they do now. A win for dealer service shops, electronics manufacturers and the auto manufacturers. Military users need DoD grade equipment and the defense contractors can make a mint selling and installing new GPS receivers. Public safety departments like police or fire will get new GPS equipment courtesy of taxpayer funding. The contractors that install that equipment in said vehicles will get paid very well to do the work. Garmin, Magellan and Tom Tom will do very well with people replacing their non-functioning equipment.

3) FCC: gets to loudly proclaim how they are fostering wireless competition by allowing another entrant into the wireless industry and providing cover to approve the AT&T/T-Mobile merger (they can claim there is no duopoly). Also they can point to the success of their nationwide broadband initiative by bringing in a nationwide broadband carrier available to rural areas.

4) Trial Lawyers: when this gets built, expect several class action lawsuits against the GPS industry based on the FCC's position that the GPS industry "should have been preparing for a ground-based network nearby". That means lots of money for lawyers and $5 off coupons for the rest of us. The GPS manufacturers can cover any settlement with higher PND prices.

The only "losers" in all this are people like me who will have to pony up for a new PND on our own dime because we do not get funding to replace our devices, pay higher fees to banks and such so they can replace their timing equipment, and pay the taxes to replace all the government hardware. Everyone with power and connections wins with this being built.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT to GPS

Member

to GPS
This ain't Lightsquare's fault. The GPS industry, especially makers of cheap, consumer grade devices, it trying to lay claim to spectrum they never had any right to use. They're awfully arrogant to cry "foul" because they were too lazy to filter out spectrum outside the GPS band that was previously mostly unused, but is now allocatied to Lightsquared. Spectrum is a scarce resource; of course it would eventually be allocated.

To read an expert analysis from one of the country's leading experts on spectrum use, read the post "FUD Attack!" at »www.marcus-spectrum.com/ ··· ed1.html

towerbuilder
@twtelecom.net

towerbuilder

Anon

4G Signal

Sprint installed 4G (data only!) equipment nearby but do not have a voice installation nearby.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

This makes no sense.

First of all, lightsuqared is going to go out of business, because GPS is too valuable to lose. Commerce in this country would slow down if these idiots are allowed to foul up the GPS signals.

Secondly, Sprint has the 800mhz SMR spectrum, which is going CDMA/EVDO. That's as good or better than CLR, and almost as good as SMH. For WiMAX or LTE, they have a MASSIVE chunk of 2.6ghz spectrum through CLEAR, so why on earth do they need Lightsquared involved?

Sprint, without Lightquared, could become something really big if they utilize SMR CDMA, and speed up their network build-out with the new combined equipment infrastructure.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: This makes no sense.

said by BiggA:

Secondly, Sprint has the 800mhz SMR spectrum, which is going CDMA/EVDO. That's as good or better than CLR, and almost as good as SMH. For WiMAX or LTE, they have a MASSIVE chunk of 2.6ghz spectrum through CLEAR, so why on earth do they need Lightsquared involved?

Lightsquared will be a big source of income thru lease payments to Sprint. Always follow the money.

And that is why Lightsquared will ultimately be rolled out in some form. Too many uber rich investors will buy FCC & gov't OKs - no matter how much GPS is affected.
Noelle704
join:2010-12-12

Noelle704

Member

Re: This makes no sense.

That's the problem, Sprint and Clear has been iffy for quite awhile now. The 2.5 GHz is through Clear, not Sprint. Sprint doesn't have direct control over the spectrum anymore, not since Sprint merged its Xohm unit with Clearwire back in 2008. Clear is not a subsidy, so it can act independently of Sprint and Sprint voting power on its board was reduced recently.

On another note, with 1X Advanced and SVDO, Sprint can move all of its CDMA service to 800 MHz as those new standard allows better capacity and efficiency. Maybe with a freed up 1900 MHz spectrum it can be used for TD-LTE.

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb

Member

Re: This makes no sense.

Why in the first place doesnt Sprint just roll out a 4G network on there own. Did AT&T and Verizon have to partner on there projects?

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium Member
join:2001-01-16
Saratoga, NY

chlen

Premium Member

Re: This makes no sense.

said by Jon Geb:

Why in the first place doesnt Sprint just roll out a 4G network on there own. Did AT&T and Verizon have to partner on there projects?

Clearwire is Sprint. It is about branding. You can buy a product from clearwire or from sprint, but sprint will get the cash. VZ and ATT and Sprint dont do the networks themselves they partner out with Ericson, Nokia, Alcatel, and have other investors in their roll outs, Sprint is the principal owner of Clearwire, which was smart on their part as to not get screwed again by getting tied up in WIMAX. Now they have the ability to got straight to LTE.

SteelerRaw
@timet.com

SteelerRaw to Noelle704

Anon

to Noelle704
said by Noelle704:

On another note, with 1X Advanced and SVDO, Sprint can move all of its CDMA service to 800 MHz as those new standard allows better capacity and efficiency. Maybe with a freed up 1900 MHz spectrum it can be used for TD-LTE.

1X Advanced does indeed allow for improved voice capacity. SVDO, on the other hand, does not. All it does is allow simultaneous voice and data, which is a good thing. All the same, I'm not sure if their 14MHz of SMR spectrum would be enough to move all of their CDMA/EVDO traffic to, especially they have to use some to maintain iDEN until that network is totally phased out..

Additionally, Sprint's 1900MHz holdings are paired FDD spectrum. There's no reason to try to use TD-LTE. I'm sure that there's a 1900MHz FDD profile for LTE. TD-LTE would be more appropriate for the 2.5GHz spectrum of Clearwire's.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: This makes no sense.

Don't they have 10mhz of PCS for the most part now? 14mhz of SMR compares well, and if there's areas that have 20mhz of PCS, they can always keep 10 of the 20 on CDMA, and move the other 10 to LTE. Or keep it CDMA, and use CLEAR's massive spectrum for LTE, as I'm sure there's room up there in addition to the WiMAX. I really want someone to build out LTE-advanced. TeliaSonera's network is pushing 100mbps in Sweden and Estonia.

SteelerRaw
@timet.com

SteelerRaw

Anon

Re: This makes no sense.

said by BiggA:

Don't they have 10mhz of PCS for the most part now?

Nah, in most areas they have 3x-4x+ that amount of PCS. Check the FCC spectrum dashboard.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
There's a lot of industries that have vested interests in GPS, from shipping to trucking to logging to surveying and engineering. That's a lot of money behind Lightsquared not building their network.

CLEAR is dependent on Sprint for customers. They aren't going to do well at all on their own.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT to BiggA

Member

to BiggA
said by BiggA:

First of all, lightsuqared is going to go out of business, because GPS is too valuable to lose. Commerce in this country would slow down if these idiots are allowed to foul up the GPS signals.

They're not idiots, and they're not operating in the GPS bands. The idiots are the makers of cheap GPS receivers, that receive signals from outside the GPS bands, and don't bother to filter them out. This is like TV manufacturers building TV's to receive channel 4, and being too cheap to filter the input to eliminate interference of nearby channels, and then getting PO'd when Channels 2 and 6 start operation, and screw up Channel 4 reception in those TV's.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: This makes no sense.

GPS is a much weaker signal, and that's why it is susceptible to interference. Lightsquared is basically using satellite frequencies to build out a terrestrial network, which is just a stupid idea. I hope and pray that this god-awful idea is stopped by the FCC before it causes immense harm to commerce in the US.

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb

Member

LTE-Wimax Discount?

I sure hope they give the previous WiMax customers a credit toward a new LTE device. I'm in Metro Detroit and we still havent had deployment here.

••••••••••
j18322
join:2011-04-07

j18322

Member

Lightsquared Eventually, Wimax now.

Unfortunately there is a high probability that Lightsquared won’t get off and running like they had hoped because of the GPS interference issue. This issue is summed up VERY well in this article…. »tmfassociates.com/blog/2 ··· #respond
I do believe that Lightsquared is in the best interests of the industry so I would not be surprised if they are given the opportunity to buy additional spectrum from the FCC (if they can find it) that will allow them to move forward.

Speaking of a spectrum change, Clearwire’s 2.5GHz Wimax is very expensive to build because each signal output location only covers about 35 square miles. I am in the DFW area and Wimax coverage is very spotty and constantly dropped. However, I don’t know if that is due to the 2.5GHz spectrum or weak receivers in the HTC EVO 4G. One thing I do know, 2.5GHz does not penetrate walls worth a S. That has been confirmed by anyone you ask.
I believe the best possible result for the Sprint customer is…

- While Lightsquared works out their hopeful spectrum migration…
- The old Nextel IDN network on the 800MHz band should have all users switched to Sprints 3G band
- Wimax should switch or utilize where available the farther reaching and deeper penetrating 800 MHz band
- Upgrade to Wimax 2 that was standardized at the end of March 2011
- Once Lightsquared is allowed to proceed, (could be more than 5 years before that happens) the timing should allow them to utilize LTE-Advanced that can combine different spectrums for maximum efficiency. LTE-Advanced is perfect for Sprint seeing as they have use of lots of spectrum.
A guy can dream can’t he?

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb

Member

Re: Lightsquared Eventually, Wimax now.

5 years and they will be out of business if it takes this long. I'll migrate to Verizon assuming 4G is or will be unlimited cap... Reasonable cap at least.

Drowlost
@pentaxmedical.com

Drowlost

Anon

Re: Lightsquared Eventually, Wimax now.

Jon Geb,

I don't believe that any provider (Verizon or otherwise) will be providing "unlimited" services in the future, not with the ever-increasing demands for data traffic. Just look at the data storm that AT&T has been weathering since 2007...data usage has increased 8,000% and is expected to double another ten times over again in the coming few years.

With the costs of spectrum increasing due to limited availability and the CAPEX associated with the build-out of network infrastructure, no one will be providing "unlimited" services in the future.

Or such is my opinion...
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

More Hype

More hype from the hype box with no proof except "we think" we think". Rumors and Rumors. Want NEWS not RUMORS!

Techkraut
@cox.net

Techkraut

Anon

LTE Frequency

Wouldn't it be far more likely that Sprint would use the 800 mhz iDEN spectrum for LTE? This would allow them to make dual mode devices, that would benefit from the data throughput of 2.5 ghz and the range and in building penetration of 800 mhz.