  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
1 edit |  Frivolous
What's next, a lawsuit against cable companies for "requiring" you to buy a TV? Come on.
But as for buying such boxes, here's my personal reasons why I would not buy a box (if I were still a Cable TV subscriber)
1. Absolutely horrid build quality. The rental boxes are absolute junk. In the last 3 years that we had digital cable, we went through 5 boxes.
2. Related to #1, there's no way such boxes are worth more than $10 retail, since they must be replaced so often. Make a better box and sell it for a little more instead.
3. But if you do #2, you run into the problem that even within the same cable company's service footprint, different types of boxes are used. I don't want to spend $200 or so on a box and then be left with a useless brick should I move to a different area (sorta the same problem you get with satellite now).
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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 | | | Re: Frivolous ...the company's business practices "are straightforward, fair and in full compliance with applicable state and federal regulations."
Notice they didn't mention "ethical". | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Frivolous said by 8744675:...the company's business practices "are straightforward, fair and in full compliance with applicable state and federal regulations."
Notice they didn't mention "ethical". Sure they are ethical, for the shareholders of the company.
Legal standards are the only ones by which parties in court should be judged.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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|  MajestikWorld TravelerPremium
join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK | It's true. Nobody is forced to upgrade.
Basic Cox cable came with my condo. Never upgraded so never needed any box.
TV is just not that important to me.
Always been fascinated at how much people are willing to pay for tv.
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The adventure continues...Sanctuary.... | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Frivolous said by Majestik:Always been fascinated at how much people are willing to pay for tv. I have to say I do miss cable TV.
But I can't justify paying the steep price for it. Even if the money wasn't an issue, I just can't look at that bill and say "yes, this is worth an extra $120 a month."
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | | MajestikWorld TravelerPremium
join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK | Re: Frivolous I never liked the idea of paying for cable tv when I only really watch less than ten channels. Commercials are too long and too many info commercials.
And I don't watch sports.
Haven't owned a tv in over ten years.
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The adventure continues...Sanctuary.... | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | said by pnh102:I'm no fan of the cable companies but if you really don't want to pay the box rental fee, then don't get service that requires a box.
Where I live there is no longer cable TV (except a few unencrypted QAM channels) without a box or DTA. Comcast includes one standard box (not a DVR) in the monthly subscription charge. They allow people to use their own cable modem (if it's on the approved list) for internet service but those who choose their digital phone service must rent a Comcast EMTA. The trend is toward more rented boxes or no service. | |
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|  GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | I want to watch television. Let's examine potential options:
1) Over The Air: Unavailable. There is no reception whatsoever in or near my apartment.
2) Satellite TV: Unavailable. My lease expressly forbids the dish, and even if it didn't, I have no line of site to the satellite.
3) IPTV: Unavailable. CRTC regulation prevents IPTV providers from offering service outside their own physical last-mile, and Bell won't sell you IPTV unless you switch to their internet, which has a cap too low for my needs.
4) Analog cable: Unavailable. Because it's a deprecated service, the cable companies that still carry an analog signal will not sell it to new customers.
5) Digital cable: Available. Lower image quality than everything except analog cable.
So, if I want to watch television, perhaps catch a hockey game, my only option is one service from one company. Yeah, nobody is holding a gun to my head to force me, but since one company has an effective monopoly over the entire class of service, I don't have any other option if I want to watch many things.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org | |
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| | | | Re: Frivolous #2, if you have line of sight they can't "forbid" you from using a dish. It is against the law. The only thing they can forbid you from is attaching it to the dwelling. You can run a pole that is in an 5 gallon bucket of cement up to 15' above (if I recall correctly) the roof line and there isnt a single thing they can say. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Frivolous I cant speak for Canada, where is that?  | |
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|  Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:11 | quote:
I'm no fan of the cable companies but if you really don't want to pay the box rental fee, then don't get service that requires a box.
Exactly what i was thinking when i read this thread bud!!!!
They can charge for whatever they feel is adaquate! (Even though i dont agree) | |
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| | also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well.
service Electric Cablevision let's you pay a One-Time Lease fee for a DTA and they let you BUY CABLE cards as well.
shaw cable and other canada systems yet you buy the or rent to own with no outlet or mirroring fees per box. | |
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|  Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well said by Joe12345678:also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well.
service Electric Cablevision let's you pay a One-Time Lease fee for a DTA and they let you BUY CABLE cards as well.
shaw cable and other canada systems yet you buy the or rent to own with no outlet or mirroring fees per box.
Yes, they need to look at mirroring fees on satellite services as well, like your precious DirecTV.
With cable it is very simple, you pay $7-10 per month per every digital cable terminal you have on your account. There are no upfront costs, you do not own the hardware and if you cancel service the hardware must be returned. With DirecTV, I pay an additional outlet charge for having two boxes, I also had the privilege of paying $100 for the HR34 and $200 for the HR24, that’s $300 in upfront costs plus the additional outlet fee, for hardware that I do not own that must be returned to them when I cancel, that I cannot resell and recoup some of my costs. If one of my boxes dies, that’s a charge, unless you pay for the DirecTV rip off service protection plan. If one of my cable terminals dies, I hop in my car and exchange at the office at no additional charge.
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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| | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well And don't you have a monthly fee on top of that for each box?
That reminds me why I stick with cable even though we're light years behind in HD channels. Not all of us can be spoiled with the kind of lineups Time Warner Cable has in many areas, unfortunately. | |
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| |  ilikemeI live in a van down by the river.Premium
join:2002-08-27
Denton, TX
kudos:1 | said by Steve Mehs:said by Joe12345678:also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well.
service Electric Cablevision let's you pay a One-Time Lease fee for a DTA and they let you BUY CABLE cards as well.
shaw cable and other canada systems yet you buy the or rent to own with no outlet or mirroring fees per box.
Yes, they need to look at mirroring fees on satellite services as well, like your precious DirecTV. With cable it is very simple, you pay $7-10 per month per every digital cable terminal you have on your account. There are no upfront costs, you do not own the hardware and if you cancel service the hardware must be returned. With DirecTV, I pay an additional outlet charge for having two boxes, I also had the privilege of paying $100 for the HR34 and $200 for the HR24, that’s $300 in upfront costs plus the additional outlet fee, for hardware that I do not own that must be returned to them when I cancel, that I cannot resell and recoup some of my costs. If one of my boxes dies, that’s a charge, unless you pay for the DirecTV rip off service protection plan. If one of my cable terminals dies, I hop in my car and exchange at the office at no additional charge. At my other house we have DirecTV and all the basic HD receivers were free. We had to pay a one time fee of $100 for the HR34 HDDVR, but they do not charge an additional fee per month for it being a DVR, unlike cable.
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| | | Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well DirecTV charges an $8 DVR service charge. This charge covers all of the DVRs on the account. Typically with cable you pay a DVR Fee on each box.
The first receiver on the account does not get charged a lease or mirror fee, well it actually does but is credited off to make it look like your saving money. I pay $6 extra for having a second box. Plus an $8 DVR service change and another $3 for Whole House DVR service. I’m not sure what it costs with cable as $230 gets me everything and prices are not broken down. But that includes 2 whole house HD DVRs. My point is cable does not charge you to an upfront fee to rent their equipment and neither should satellite. But oh well, I was duped into paying $300 for these shoddy DVRs. Live and learn I guess
quote:
cable systems have a protection plan as well and I think there may be a fee to have some one come over to swap the box out.
Never heard of that. But since you typically spin thing sin a pro DirecTV way, I wouldn’t doubt if you’re making it up. I have Time Warner and have never been charged an install fee or any type of fee for having a tech come out for any reason, including an equipment swap. The only fee I ever paid for anything was the $15 or whatever activation for digital phone to have my number ported. DirecTV tries to push their protection plan on me every chance they get. If anything goes wrong with their crap, I'll just cancel the service and pay the ETF.
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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| | | | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well Atlantic Broadband does have a protection plan that you'd have to pay of $6/month to avoid any fees for having techs come out.
They typically have installation fees too unless you do something, both times I've had them come it's either by taking the protection plan and agreeing to pay it for 6 months (a net savings of nothing, really) or doing auto-pay (which reduced it, but didn't eliminate it). | |
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| | | | cable systems have a protection plan as well and I think there may be a fee to have some one come over to swap the box out.
On directv with out a plan you pay a fee to cover shipping out a new box to you / send the old one back. | |
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| | | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well If you need a tech to hook up a cable box, then you're an idiot and deserve to be robbed blind. | |
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| | | | said by Steve Mehs:I also had the privilege of paying $100 for the HR34 and $200 for the HR24, that’s $300 in upfront costs plus the additional outlet fee, for hardware that I do not own that must be returned to them when I cancel, that I cannot resell and recoup some of my costs. You paid $300.00 for equipment that you don't own? Is this standard? If so, why would someone get their service?
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? | |
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| | | Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well Yes, paying an upfront fee for leased equipment is standard for DirecTV with DVRs and has been for sometime. I believe the very basic non DVRs are free. The only reason got DirecTV was on Jan 1 2012 Time Warner temporarily pulled MSG. I cannot live without my Sabres hockey. So I had DirecTV installed. I kept cable due to their vastly superior HD line up. I was going to cancel DirecTV when MSG returned, but decided to give NFL Sunday Ticket a try this year. As much as DirecTV irks me, NFL ST is a stellar product. And while I don’t agree at all with what DirecTV does regarding equipment, I can’t get NFL Sunday Ticket anywhere else.
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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| | | | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well You do NOT have to pay upfront for DirecTV. You get free equipment. Maybe when you signed up you had to pay- Like if you bundle with AT&T, yes YOU PAY up front. Directly through DirecTV no up front fees. Dish network requires you to pay up front though. But again NOT DirecTV. | |
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| | | | | Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well Incorrect. Here's a screen cap of my order. I signed up via DirecTVs website on Jan 1 2012. I originally ordered an HR34 along with an H25. As you can see I was charged $100 for the HR34 and the H25 was free. A month later I replaced the H25 with the HR24 and was charged $200 for that.
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well You got the wrong package/promos. I just signed up with them again and NOTHING. | |
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| | | | | | | | Here is your proof they don't charge for equipment unless you ordered more of the "free" boxes than you were permitted. | |
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| | | | | | | Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well The Genie is a new receiver they just came out with. The HR34 was the top of the line before the Genie. You paid $100 for it and Direct subsidized $300 for the rest of the cost of it. It has the same features of the Genie except you need a plain HD or SD box in every room you want to see recorded shows from the HR34. Don't know if the Genie can hook up to your home network with wireless Direct Connect or Ethernet. The HR34 does both and you can watch the shows recorded on it on your PC also. I don't understand why some people get the HR34 and get another DVR for another room. Since it can do five channels at once also. | |
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| | | | | | | | Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well The Genie and the HR34 are the same exact thing! DirecTV is just marketing under a real name now to better compete with Dish and the Hopper. It’s just a rebranding. Like a few years ago when Ford changed the name of the Lincoln Zephyr to the Lincoln MKZ and GM changed the name of the Cadillac Deville to the DTS. The domestic brands rebranded their products to match the alphanumeric naming scheme of the imports like Lexus and Mercedes for marketing purposes. And besides for those of us that do the CE beta downloads, the Genie software features have been around for a while now.
As to why have both the HR23 and another DVR, well to view independent channels on two different TVs. I don't have one of the three Samsung TVs compatible with DirecTVs networking and the C31 client boxes just came out a few weeks ago. I have absolutely no desire to watch TV on my PC, when I have two 55” TVs in the house. And besides the DirecTV2PC software is utter crap. It sometimes worked on my desktop and never worked on my laptop.
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well And as I have posted before I never had to pay up front for my DVR. I selected ONE HD-DVR and never was charged. For all the other Tvs they got just an HD box and was able to access the DVR just fine. By selecting more than one DVR yes you DO PAY for those due to they are NOT included in your "package" DTV makes it clear what you get for free and what you do not.
DTV even sends out flyers in the mail by RedPlum that they don't charge for equipment. Since today is Saturday I'm sure I'll get one and I'll scan it. And their TV ads state the same thing, no equipment to buy. | |
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| | | | stridr69
join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA | Actually NFL ticket is available on PlayStation 3.
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| | | | | Steve MehsGun Control Is Using A Steady HandPremium
join:2005-07-16 | Re: also need to look at mirroring / outlet fees as well Yes, I know. I have no interest in streaming video. I'm guessing the PS3 version doesn't have Game Mix, mobile access or probably even a Dolby 5.1 audio feed. I cannot stand the thought of not having actual channels to flip between. Internet streaming sucks!
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For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track. | |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| TiVo is an option All you need is a CableCard for TiVo.
I have a TiVo in the living room, a Comcast DVR in the bedroom and a SD box in the basement on an old TV.
I used to have two TiVo boxes but I moved one of them to grandma's house in Maine so I could have a DVR in my room at her house without making her pay Time Warner the $12 DVR rental fee. As a matter of fact, the CableCard for the TiVo is $1.75 per month (and includes the SDV tuning adapter) instead of the $8 set-top box that was there before.
At my house, Comcast charges hefty fees for equipment (probably to compensate for the high rate of unreturned equipment in my area). They charge the same $9 for either an SD box or an HD box.
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Romney-Ryan and Scott Brown are the Right Choice as they are Hope & Change you can count on. | |
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See 24 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Illegal tying -- legal definition From the Wikipedia article: re a Federal suit:
"Success on a tying claim typically requires proof of four elements: (1) two separate products or services are involved; (2) the purchase of the tying product is conditioned on the additional purchase of the tied product; (3) the seller has sufficient market power in the market for the tying product; (4) a not insubstantial amount of interstate commerce in the tied product market is affected."
In this case:
1. yep, you could make this case
2. yep
3. maybe... this one's iffy... there are certainly choices like satellite out there
4. hmmm... not sure there's any interstate commerce here, the local cable outlet is doing all the business
Conclusion... this will probably not fly legally, and the initial judge who said "file in the states" probably had it right. | |
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|  gerglesGregPremium
join:2003-05-30
San Francisco, CA | Re: Illegal tying -- legal definition You buy the boxes from some other source = interstate commerce. | |
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| | | Interstate commerce may apply in that they are live feeding you content that comes from across state lines. | |
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| | | | Re: Illegal tying -- legal definition You both raise a good point. I don't know if there's a case for calling streaming paid content between states "internet commerce", or not. | |
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 plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | By them from where? While I agree paying a "rental fee" each month upwards of $7 is a bit much. However, I am trying to figure out where I can "buy their set top boxes".
Unless things have changed in the last few days, they are not like a Cable Modem where I can go to Best Buy or Wal-Mart and pick one off the shelf and pay for it.
Does this former judge also plan to get the Set Top Boxes in stores for people to purchase? Kind of throws this whole case out the window if people have no way to purchase them on their own.
--Brian
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--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail | |
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|  drewAutomaticPremium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6 | Re: By them from where? You don't think that the OEMs would start putting their STBs in retail outlets if people were actually able to use them with their service? | |
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| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: By them from where? The cable companies won't activate cable boxes they don't own unless there's a government mandate that forces them to. Government mandates can have unintended consequences so be careful what you wish. | |
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| |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by drew:You don't think that the OEMs would start putting their STBs in retail outlets if people were actually able to use them with their service?
I suspect that even one could purchase STBs in store and pries were set at $200( which would be the most likely price point ) and the people in my area had a choice of getting says 4 STBs from Wal-Mart for $800 or just pay Charter $20 a month. They'd take the $20 a month option. Sure after 3 years and 4 months they are ahead of the game, but most people don't want to wait that long for ROI. | |
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| | | drewAutomaticPremium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6 | Re: By them from where? Who needs four STBs? | |
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| | | in canada the Set Top Boxes are in stores | |
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| | Who would buy their own set top box.... ...whan it requires a cablecard for it to work? Or do people not realize that requirement?
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? | |
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| | I would sue over forcing a box to get network tv channels I would sue over forcing to rent a set top box to get network tv channels. I guess a box to get certain premium channels and stuff is ok, as long as it's not too much. I know comcraps dvr fee is close to 20 bucks for old equipment in my area. | |
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| | | Re: I would sue over forcing a box to get network tv channels said by nonamesleft:I would sue over forcing to rent a set top box to get network tv channels. I guess a box to get certain premium channels and stuff is ok, as long as it's not too much. I know comcraps dvr fee is close to 20 bucks for old equipment in my area.
To bad you aren't on Charter cable as those morons are getting ready to do just that.
»Goodbye Clear Qam Channels - FCC ruling
Hopefully, someday soon, my wife will despise tv as much as I do and we can totally get rid of that boring/ripoff form of entertainment, if that's what you want to call most of that crap on tv!
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 linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
 ·CenturyLink
| Yeah you do. If you have cable AND internet you buy the modem, rent the set top AND pay a transmission fee to watch the same shows you watched the night before without a fee.
Moooooo. We are the cash cow.
We are stuck with it because there is no competition, and no other options except to build your own Internet service. We will never have fair competition as long as giant corporations are allowed to woo FCC members and grease Congress.
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Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside | |
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Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI
| This actually has merit. If you want multi-room functionality, Cox forces you to rent their DVR at $20 a month per DVR.
Normally you could use a Series 3 Tivo or an HTPC with mythtv, but Cox doesn't allow this by flagging all channels with CCI 0x02.
While you can use a series 4 tivo, they cost a lot, and its a lame solution when your existing DVR would otherwise work fine if cox left the cci flag alone, like all other cable tv companies. | |
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