Comcast's Faster Speeds Have Many Users....Downgrading?Users are saving $10 and dropping down to company's slowest (12Mbps) tier... 03:26PM Tuesday Nov 04 2008 by Karl Bodetags: business · bandwidth · cable · ComcastA few weeks ago Comcast unveiled some new speed tiers for markets that are being upgraded to DOCSIS 3.0. Comcast not only doubled existing speed tiers ("Performance" 6Mbps/1Mbps and "Performance Plus" 8Mbps/2Mbps tiers became 12Mbps/2Mbps and 16Mbps/2Mbps), but adding two new tiers to the mix ("Ultra" 22Mbps/5Mbps and "Extreme 50" 50Mbps/10Mbps). 20% of Comcast markets should see the new speeds by the end of this year, while all markets will be upgraded by the end of 2010. One recurring theme we've seen in our forums is that the new speeds have many users actually downgrading service. In both forum threads and polls, many customers on Comcast's 16Mbps/2Mbps tier say they're downgrading to their 12Mbps/2Mbps tier -- apparently because they don't think an additional 4Mbps downstream is worth $10. Customers used to be willing to pay the additional $10 for double the upstream speed, but there's no longer an upstream difference between the tiers. Given we can't see Comcast's internal numbers, it's hard to tell if more customers are dropping down to Comcast's base tier, or springing for Comcast's new 22Mbps/5Mbps tier and a new DOC 3.0 modem. Given the economic climate, the former is likely. Is Comcast intentionally trying to drive people off of the 16Mbps/2Mbps tier, or did they simply make a marketing mistake? What's more appealing to you folks: 12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95, 16Mbps/2Mbps for $52.95, 22Mbps/5Mbps for $62.95, or 50Mbps/10Mbps for $139.95?
Related:- Which Comcast Markets Will See DOCSIS 3.0 Upgrades?
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- Martin, Comcast, Continue Lover's Feud
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- New Comcast Throttling System 100% Online
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DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs: | Ehh 12/2 would suit most people fine. Hell, I dont even need more than that really. Well, ok, I do, but I would settle for 12/2. | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
 ·Comcast
| Re: Ehh Interesting point. I'd be more than happy with 12/2, but if they broke down the bandwidth caps this way, I'd have to upgrade to 16/2 out of necessity alone. 
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| | | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Ehh Its what was done in Canada (Rogers, I believe) to sway the average user into a specific tier.
For the AVERAGE user, there's CURRENTLY very little to be gained by going from 6Mbps to anything higher.
When I say AVERAGE, I mean those the do Google search, Youtube, email, iTunes, etc., and not those running BT, downloading Oracle 10g / Fedora Core distros, hosting email, etc.
The 'new' incentive is caps - bottom tier is one they _really_ don't want you to use, so price is cheap, but has puny cap, and shouldn't be used for much besides searches and email.
Since there's little (relative) difference in speed between 12Mbps and 16Mbps (and none on the upload), why would anyone pay $10/month more ? I can only expect that there's some small print, such as caps.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | 
funchords
Robb Topolski
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
·Comcast
edit:
November 4th, @05:51PM
| said by en102  :This is where 'tiered caps' will start to come into effect. Assume the following were true for these new packages: 768kbps - 10GB 12/2Mbps - 40GB 16/2Mbps - 150GB 22/5Mbps - 250GB 50/10Mbps - 500GB Same pricing... but capped. Now which would most pick ? Here's the thing, and, as usual, nobody is listening to me.
80% (WAG) don't need a cap.
There are 20% that -might- benefit the entire network by having a cap, and in that number, probably only 10% that probably exceed all reasonableness in the opinion of some made-up fake jury somewhere. It's a tiny, tiny number.
They need a cap, maybe, but they need education and some methods of control. There are some tools for control now, some tools for control that the IETF is talking about. Let them use bandwidth, but let them use it in ways that won't interfere with the neighborhood and is fair to the ISP.
ISPs need to put away the scarcity and the scare tactics and become part of the Internet community -- one that looks at consumers and service providers not as money-sources and competitors, but as partners.
robb
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Ehh said by funchords :They need a cap, maybe, but they need education and some methods of control. There are some tools for control now, some tools for control that the IETF is talking about. Let them use bandwidth, but let them use it in ways that won't interfere with the neighborhood and is fair to the ISP. ISPs need to put away the scarcity and the scare tactics and become part of the Internet community -- one that looks at consumers and service providers not as money-sources and competitors, but as partners. robb While I mostly agree with you, what they need to do is be honest and put into place "useful" tools.
One that might be of some benefit is a tool this very site uses. In the upper right corner, there is a meter that shows the load of the site. If ISPs had some sort of tool that showed the load of the local node, AND WAS HONEST ABOUT IT, then people might be a little more cognitive of their usage. | |
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Paul928
join:2000-05-06
Haverhill, MA
·Comcast
| said by en102 :This is where 'tiered caps' will start to come into effect. Assume the following were true for these new packages: 768kbps - 10GB 12/2Mbps - 40GB 16/2Mbps - 150GB 22/5Mbps - 250GB 50/10Mbps - 500GB Same pricing... but capped. Now which would most pick ? Maybe I'm reading the posted story different than you, and I'm not sure if you meant that the caps that you posted would indeed be in effect....but I quote from the story. "For the time being, you can assume that all tiers will come with Comcast's new 250GB monthly cap." The part that scares me most though is "For the time being." | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| said by en102 :This is where 'tiered caps' will start to come into effect. Assume the following were true for these new packages: 768kbps - 10GB 12/2Mbps - 40GB 16/2Mbps - 150GB 22/5Mbps - 250GB 50/10Mbps - 500GB Same pricing... but capped. Now which would most pick ? If I did more than 40GB a month and my overage penalty was more than $10 the 16/2 tier would be a better deal. In fact, they could add a $10 overage cap to the 12/2 tier. IOW: In any month that I exceed the 40GB cap, I will be charged the lesser of the overage fee or $10 and then be allowed to go up to 150GB. This is the best of both tiers for both sides since they only need to provision for 12 while getting the extra $10 that 16/2 costs. Those who need/want the extra 4Mbps download speed would go for the 16/2 tier while the 12/2 tier would get the extra 110GB when needed for the extra cost of the 16/2 tier. | |
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Froggy
@bell.ca | I wouldn't pay more than half a yard (50 bucks for the ignorant people) for half a terabyte. | |
| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | yep, 12/2 @ $42 is the spot.
If I had the $52 tier, I would be downgrading to save $10. | |
| | | Tikker_LoS
join:2004-04-29
Regina, SK
·SaskTel Saskatchewan
| Re: Ehh said by nasadude :yep, 12/2 @ $42 is the spot. If I had the $52 tier, I would be downgrading to save $10. i know here that when we upgraded all lines from 1.5mpbs/384 to 5mpbs/640 and gave people the option to have their bill stay the same at 5mpbs, or drop it $10 to stay at 1.5mbps something like 85%+ went with the $10 savings
granted this is getting on a few years ago now | |
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ArkhmAsylm
Evrythng I need isn't really what I want
join:2006-02-22
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast
| I started out with a 28/8 modem & moved up to Qwest's 256/128 DSL service. They upgraded me to 640/256 not too long after getting the service. Two years ago I upgraded my 'puter &, after assessing my in-law's Comcast HSI, I decided to take the leap to the 4/512 service. I was happy with the 1st DSL tier, very pleased with their upgrade, & tickled with my original CC tier. While I would probably opt for the fastest service available - if money weren't an issue - I don't believe that I need anything more at this time.
--
Look at the pretty smoke! | |
| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Perhaps everyone who cared about getting the most speed have already left or plan on leaving? With the slowest tier my Comcast bill was still $30's more a month than the 20/5 triple play tier on FIOS. | |
| Rob2647
join:2008-08-12
Rochester, MI | And People rather not pay that much to hit that 250gb cap to quickly. | |
| |
ESVA Boy
@baycrk.net
| Re: And I don't have Comcast, but I just follow along. So even people that pay for the 22/5 service (which I would love, if it were offered) are still capped at 250gBITS (or Bytes?) a month?
Wow, Comcast doesn't sound so great anymore.
Keith F. | |
| zjumper
join:2004-08-17
Baltimore, MD | if i had comcast, which i don't... 22/5 tier of course... | |
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baineschile
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: if i had comcast, which i don't... LOL, always with the cap.
Remember, faster speeds wont change downloading habits, it will just make smoother | |
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SillyRabbit
@tds.net
| Re: if i had comcast, which i don't... said by baineschile :LOL, always with the cap. Remember, faster speeds wont change downloading habits, it will just make smoother Of course faster speeds will change downloading habits, silly rabbit! | |
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dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: if i had comcast, which i don't... said by SillyRabbit :said by baineschile :LOL, always with the cap. Remember, faster speeds wont change downloading habits, it will just make smoother Of course faster speeds will change downloading habits, silly rabbit! Hasn't for me in ~4 years.
I still punish my connection to the tune of 30GB per month, yet my speeds have multiplied 4x.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cox HSI
| Faster speeds open the possibility for trying new things. The limiter has really been upload speed, I applaud Comcast for "taking it to the limit" ;p FiOS makes their upload look ridiculous.
I'm in sort of a similar situation w/ Verizon, I'm fine with 3Mbps tier, because the next tier up has same upload speed. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
November 5th, @04:58PM
| said by SillyRabbit :said by baineschile :LOL, always with the cap. Remember, faster speeds wont change downloading habits, it will just make smoother Of course faster speeds will change downloading habits, silly rabbit! Between 1995 and 1997 I used a dial up modem and didn't do much but web browsing and email. Then in 1997 I got a cable modem with 5mbs down/1 mbs up and I really started downloading. I used that for almost 10 years, switching once or twice to DSl and also getting a little faster cable modem speeds when comcast took over Jones cable(although my upload dropped to 768kbs)
Then in 2007 I got the 30/5 from FIOS and was hitting over 600GB a month. Now I'm on the 50/20 tier and hit 800GB to 1.3 TB a month.
So as the speed has increased I have downloaded more and more.
And I'm hoping that FIOS increases their speeds again since Comcast is coming close to matching them. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by baineschile :LOL, always with the cap. Remember, faster speeds wont change downloading habits, it will just make smoother Most sites cap out at 5mbps or less so when quote "free downstream speed increases" are given by a provider, its done because they know the additional bandwidth will go largely unused.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|
dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Upload is king! Back when 3mbps/256kbps was the norm, and 4mbps/384kbps was "speed", I went for "speed" just to get the higher upload.
FFW to today, I still have the highest speed available to me, mainly for the 2mbps upload.
So, when this new upgrade hits, and I can have the same upload speed for $10.00 less per month... well, DUH!
Maybe when D3 gets here *and* I can buy my own modem, I will get the 22/5 service.
Again, just for the upload speed!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Palmdale, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
 ·Dreamhost
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Upload is king! I agree with the poster on this one. We've been getting too little speed in the upload department for way too long now, so if given the choice between 12 or 16mbps downstream, yet both packages offer 2Mbps upload, I'd go with the cheaper package, since I've got enough download, and it's the upload I'm after. when speed increases occur, they should really be in both directions, but that'd make too much sense. 16/2 should be at least 16/3. And why is Comcast requiring a Docsis 3 modem for their 22/5 service? Cablevision offers 30/5 on Docsis 2.0. I'd love to see other cable providers offer something higher than 2Mbps upstream on Docsis 1.1/2.0 equipment currently deployed, yet noone's yet done it. Strange, since I'm pretty sure currently deployed Docsis equipment can do at least 4Mbps upload. | |
| | jesseb_66
join:2002-12-06
Tucson, AZ | I'd spring in another 10 bucks personally for 22/5 if I had 16/2. $10 less for 4Mbps less probably is a good move for some 16/2 users. $10 more for 6 mbps more down and 3 mbps more up IS worth it for a lot of people IMO. | |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Comcast
| Re: 12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95 best for most users .... the caps prompted me to downgrade my comcast speed to their lowest tier (comcast's unreliability prompted me to leave).
based on what i was doing as a comcast customer, i'd imagine the same saavy folks who wold be willing to fork out the cash for the higher tiers are the same folks who object to caps (the power user). imo comcast shot themselves in the foot by implementing caps before they rolled out the faster teirs. they should have done it thr other way around. | |
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jt4
@comcast.net | Re: 12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95 best for most users .... but the cap is really high 250gb. you would have to watch stream movies 8 hour a day everyday of the month to reach the cap. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
November 4th, @04:23PM
| Re: 12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95 best for most users .... said by jt4 :
but the cap is really high 250gb. you would have to watch stream movies 8 hour a day everyday of the month to reach the cap.
I agree, if that is what your major activity is. But if you are a user backing up gigabytes of files nightly to an online server or are an engineer working from home, then none of these plans are appropriate. You really need a business SLA agreement, whether that is from Comcast or from a telco if Comcast won't or can't provide a business service to your residence.
And Comcast has 2 levels of business customers.
One is just people working from home(heavy but not huge bandwidth needs) or maybe a restaurant or Real Estate office looking to provide internet access with a higher grade of customer support. And here is some info on that:
»www.comcast.com/corporate/busine···net.html
The second is for real big data needs and for this type of service there are SLAs, dedicated customer support and account managers, and access that is typically NOT a coax connection off of a typical residential node. Access is often FTTP and is ethernet based as well. See here for the REAL business services that Comcast offers:
»www.comcast.com/corporate/busine···ult.html
Especially, the following 2 offerings:
»www.comcast.com/Corporate/Busine···net.html
»www.comcast.com/corporate/busine···ine.html
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
| | | | | wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| Re: 12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95 best for most users .... I still do not find anywhere that this first example is constructed to fit a home worker. They do not discuss bandwidth levels at all. This is catered to a small business.
What specifically in the business SLA defines heavy, but not huge bandwidth usage?
If Comcast does not provide business service to a home, is that not a sign that this is NOT, in fact, designed for a home worker at all, but for a small business?
cw | |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA | I agree 250gb is fine....for a single user. For a household, not so much. | |
| krazymon2
join:2008-01-13
Coraopolis, PA
·Comcast
| My thoughts are.. Right now I am on the 16/2 tier. When the 22/5 tier becomes available it would be worth the extra couple of bucks compared to what I pay now for the extra speed. Even if I don't feel I am using the extra speed others in my home might and if its not being used I can always downgrade to the 12/2. | |
| | 
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: My thoughts are.. I'm a CHSI Blast customer today; quite frankly, 22/5 would be pointless (even at the same price). My upload needs are not high enough that more upload bandwidth (than the 2 Mbits/second included with Blast today) isd even necessary. The problem (for me) is the caps, which get cracked by multi-gigabyte operating-system ISOs; as it stands, there is not enough bandwidth from most sites to even come close to taxing Blast as it stands today, let along 22/5. Other than the higher-end streaming-video and major download centers (especially Microsoft and Apple), there is a distinct lack-o-bandwidth, so last-mile bandwidth is largely irrelevant. | |
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swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs: | and then there is powerboost. For most users the 12mbps tier will look identical to the 16mbps when powerboost is in effect. So... essentially the two tiers act/are the same, except for the price difference. | |
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jt7
@comcast.net | Re: and then there is powerboost. powerboost only work for the first part of the download. not the whole thing. the 16mbps is for the while download not just part of it. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: and then there is powerboost. said by jt7 :
powerboost only work for the first part of the download. not the whole thing. the 16mbps is for the while download not just part of it.
With my current 16/2 service with Comcast, I see speeds over 20Mbps down and 5Mbps up with PowerBoost for the full duration of 99% of the files that I transfer. It's not too often that I push a file big enough to exceed the 2-3 minutes of PowerBoost that is applied.
I assume this is another reason some customers are downgrading their service. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
November 4th, @04:42PM
| Re: and then there is powerboost. said by swhitney2003 :said by jt7 :
powerboost only work for the first part of the download. not the whole thing. the 16mbps is for the while download not just part of it.
I know what Powerboost is. You missed the part where I said "most users," as in those that typically always see powerboost in effect because they are not maxing out their connections for long(er) periods of time. My response was not directed toward your comment.
Edit: Sorry, must not have gotten enough sleep last night. | |
| jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Obviously... Like any typical DSLReports member, naturally I demand unlimited free internet with no caps, and any company that won't provide that is GREEDY and EVILLLLL. | |
| | Tarnacha
join:2008-11-03
Boston, MA
| Re: Obviously... Dont speak for all DSL members.
Yes, unlimited is always good for the consumer, but the broadband providers also have a point in capping. With many people sharing the network a select few (dare I say bandwidth "greedy") consumers spoil the show for others who find it hard to get even the basic speeds they have subscribed to...
Their tiers and pricing can be challenged for sure, but they really really gotta cap! | |
| | | lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA | Re: Obviously... Either cap bandwidth use or cap speeds, not both. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
·VoicePulse
| Re: Obviously... said by lordofwhee :Either cap bandwidth use or cap speeds, not both. I have to very, very strongly disagree. I suffered DirecWay internet service a few years ago. The policy was to let you download as fast as the network could handle.....until you hit their 400Mb in a 24 hour period cap. At which point it cut you down to below dial up speeds for a day or two.
So I am not at all in favor of an unlimited speed with cap option.
I think 250Gb is reasonable for the standard 12/2 plan. But what would be the reason to pay more for a 16/2 with the same cap? And certainly not a 22/5.
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/2x 2048Mb G.Skill/Seagate 750.10/EVGA 8800GT's SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
| jriskin
join:2001-10-11
Topanga, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| Personally...12/2 OR 22/5 I would probably go for 22/5 but I would recommend 12/2 for people who want to save money. 16/2 just doesn't make any sense... if 4Mbit actually makes a difference to you then you will probably spend the extra money and get 22/5.
They should make the in-between rate 16/3 than it actually makes sense again. | |
| 
CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Half Baked Im not really disagreeing with the thought process. Im moreso disagreeing with what the conclusion is based on.
quote:
One recurring theme we've seen in our forums is that the new speeds have many users actually downgrading service. In both forum threads and polls, many customers on Comcast's 16Mbps/2Mbps tier say they're downgrading to their 12Mbps/2Mbps tier
You have two users, one anonymous that might not even had 12/2 available and 2 other users stating they would downgrade when it is available. Thats a weak 4 in a 3 page thread.
And the poll is simply asking what tier people would subscribe to, not if they would downgrade.
So are 4 forum members really what we are basing this MASS EXODUS of DOWNGRADING on?
I predict customers, much with past speed increases, will see a dramatic increase in speed and smile and keep right on trucking.
What do I know. Ive only been in the industry for 14 years.
--
CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" | |
|
pilotboy72
@bcop.com | Connections Capped Anyway What's the difference? I have the 16/2 tier now and most connections max out at 8mb anyhow. | |
| |
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs: | Re: Connections Capped Anyway Even if the connection weren't capped, the bandwidth at the *server end* is often far too low. What good is all that bandwidth (even 16/2) if you can max it maybe five percent (or less) of the time? | |
| |
dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by pilotboy72 :
What's the difference? I have the 16/2 tier now and most connections max out at 8mb anyhow.
Depends on what you are getting and where you get it from.
Some downloads only go 50KB/sec, does that mean I'm capped at 50KB/sec? No.
It means the server is junk or severly limited
Other places can bury my 16mbps line.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| 
dslwanter
Broadband blackhole no more
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
·AT&T Midwest
| Caps Caps will prevent people from going faster. Why should they get more speed when they can't do what they want? They're going to figure an economy tier is good enough.
--
Need a DJ within 60 miles of Youngstown, OH? Check out my service: »www.thebomb102djservice.com | |
| | 
jeffhambone
Peace, through superior firepower
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
·Comcast
·Cox HSI
| How about a larger price break, instead? As I said in the poll thread...
"There's a pretty big price/performance gap between [the economy tier] 768/384 for $24.95 and 12/2 for 42.95. Keeping a 4/1 or 6/1 service at a $30 or so price point would keep people like me who will probably jump ship as soon as XOhm or FiOS is available."
...or who are looking to cancel altogether in light of the latest round of TV service increases. After all, some revenue from a retained customer is better than none, right?
--
Son, there's only one thing you need to know: HEMI | |
| 
maartena
Nice'n Round.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| I agree. I am currently on 10/1, and will be upgraded to 15/2 on Time Warner.... and I want the 2 Mbps upload. But if there would be a 8/2 tier that was $10 cheaper, I would probably downgrade too. Same upload speed, and I can get just as much work done on 8 Mbps. 
--
Obama 2008 - Because McCain is more of the same! | |
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from:
12Mbps/2Mbps for $42.95 best for most users ....
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