Comcast Tells FCC To Butt OutHints at legal action if they try to act 02:30PM Thursday Mar 20 2008 by Karl Bodetags: legal · competition · Fileswapping · fcc · business · bandwidth · cable · networking · ComcastTipped by TK Junk Mail  In response to an FCC investigation, Comcast has been trying hard to convince the agency that the company's forging of TCP packets to throttle P2P traffic for their users is perfectly reasonable -- as per the definition of reasonable in the FCC's network neutrality policy statement. That has involved using the word reasonable a lot in a new terms of service, and issuing an 80 page statement to the FCC that used the word reasonable forty times. With Comcast apparently figuring out that repetition of a word doesn't alter reality, the cable giant is now arguing that even if their traffic shaping does violate the FCC's policy statement, the FCC lacks the authority to do anything about it. In a new filing (pdf), Comcast Executive VP David Cohen hints very strongly that they'll take legal action if the FCC attempts to fine the company. "The congressional policy and agency practice of relying on the marketplace instead of regulation to maximize consumer welfare has been proven by experience (including the Comcast customer experience) to be enormously successful," Cohen says. "Bearing these facts in mind should obviate the need for the Commission to test its legal authority." Cohen goes on to deny the FCC's suggestion that there isn't adequate transparency for customers, given "we communicate appropriately with our customers." That's pretty entertaining from a company that first outright denied they were throttling P2P traffic, followed by months of semantic denials. They've still yet to fully explain exactly what they're doing to P2P traffic within even the finest print of the company's terms of service. In lock step with Comcast, National Cable and Telecommunications Association boss Kyle McSlarrow engaged in a 15 minute monologue with reporters this morning, arguing that regulators should essentially butt out, because as overseers of industry they're in no position to oversee industry (or something like that). McSlarrow also suggests there's no need for consumers to fill their pretty little heads with the technical specifics of TOS agreements and network operations: "We're not blocking access to any application, and we don't throttle any traffic." |
McSlarrow said Thursday that he believes Comcast has always been transparent enough about its practices and that it's impractical for cable operators to reveal, on an application-by-application basis, how they manage their networks. "If you're disclosing 8,000 things, no one's going to read these things," he said, adding that there's also a chance that "proprietary" information could get out. Comments from Martin at the first hearing in Hartford seem to suggest he's leaning very heavily toward at least fining the company for not being forthcoming with customers. If so, it looks like he can expect a long, drawn out, "Comcastic" battle in the courts. Related:- NY Attorney General Investigating Comcast
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- Comcast, Cox, Trot Out Their Worst 'Bandwidth Hogs'
- Beating Comcast's Sandvine On Linux With Iptables
- Don't Fear The Bandwidth Apocalypse
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  mrchris Stop deleting my posts Premium join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY | Heh, the picture of.. The old lady who went into a service center with a hammer "Do I have your attention now?"
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|  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: Heh, the picture of.. that picture is awesome. | |
|  |  |   CConverse
join:2006-01-31 Syracuse, NY | Re: Heh, the picture of.. LOL I love the old lady that photo is classic  | |
|  |  |  |   Camelot One Premium,MVM join:2001-11-21 Austin, TX clubs: | Re: Heh, the picture of.. Someone needs to photoshop Martin with the hammer though. | |
|  |  |  |   TraumaJunkie Premium join:2004-03-05 Knoxville, TN
| said by CConverse :LOL I love the old lady that photo is classic But what the hell does it have to do with this story? | |
|  |  |  |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Heh, the picture of.. It's someone who hates Comcast, just like Karl.  | |
|   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL | Comcast, the new AT&T Anyone hearing echoes of the 1970's? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | Re: Comcast, the new AT&T A shame the company didn't go through with the early plans (when they first started talking about buying AT&T Broadband) to name the company "AT&T Comcast"  | |
|  |  |   BabyBear Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| Re: Comcast, the new AT&T said by EPS :name the company "AT&T Comcast" *shudder*
A subsidiary of Microsoft Google.
Slogan: "Would you like to use OUR Internet, Today?" | |
|  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: Comcast, the new AT&T Sounds like the old AOL model for Internet... wait.. its history repeating itself, with 'portal' driven content and a proxied/restrictive Internet...only faster -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD | So are they or arn't they blocking traffic? Seems Comcast can't be straight with even themselves.  | |
|   Alakar Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23 Milwaukee, WI | Transparent? Isn't this the same company that denied they had usage caps and still won't specify what those caps are? Transparency my ass!! | |
|   DHRacer Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10 Lake Arrowhead, CA | No way Any company that tells the government regulator to go to hell should be btch-slapped and broken up into tiny little pieces and sold off.
Wait, they did that to AT&T and look how well that worked out. Nevermind...
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|   A P CC Premium join:2003-07-26 ..
·AT&T Southwest
| C,C,better be careful about pushing , the cable giant is now arguing that even if their traffic shaping does violate the FCC's policy statement, the FCC lacks the authority to do anything about it.
Weather the F.C.C. does or doesn't have the authority, Castrate, (I mean comcast) had better step gently, the F.C.C. is the authority that hold the licence of each station in its power,they can suspend or at make it very hard on comcast,and since WHEN does or can a private company dictate over how a gov't agency is run. maybe the F.C.C. need to know Comcast back down a peg or 2. -- IF YOU ONLY look for the worst THATS ALL YOUR EVER GOING TO SEE. | |
|  |  JerryTongue
join:2003-04-01 Auburn, WA
·Comcast
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing Isn't that a slap in the face to the FCC. Before you know it everyone will start to tell the FCC to just kiss off, I will do what I want and you will like it. We have a lot of big battles going on right now with all the ISP's, if the FCC doesn't step up and give a good hard look at everything and make sure all the rules are clear "in Black and White" they will lose any control of anything and we are all going to get screwed in the end. I think now is the time they need to set a example just to let everyone know just who they are.I think this could really hurt the FCC if they dont act hard on this and act very hard so EVERYONE hears it. | |
|  |  |  |  |   tshirt Premium join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing said by TK Junk Mail :So, the FCC is pretty much a toothless tiger unless & until Congress passes new laws that changes that. Correct, the FTC would be the one to deal with unfairtrade practices , if any. Even if the FCC had authority, gov't agencies can't respond in a vindictive manner. So what if CC was rude, as long as they didn't fail to respond to a legal request/order the FCC would be unable to punish them just for being rude. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
edit: March 20th, @03:42PM
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing said by qworster :said by TK Junk Mail :said by A P CC :the F.C.C. is the authority that hold the licence of each station in its power,they can suspend or at make it very hard on comcast Comcast isn't a broadcaster like ABC, NBC, KYW, WPVI, etc. They don't have a LICENSE from the FCC that can be suspended. What power the FCC has comes from the Congress when they deregulated cable TV. The power is relatively limited. And when a cable company hasn't liked what the FCC is doing they went to Federal court and won. So, the FCC is pretty much a toothless tiger unless & until Congress passes new laws that changes that. WRONG!!!Don't show your ignorance by stating things you know nothing about! Congress specifically GAVE the FCC the power to regulate cable. There's an entire division of the FCC just FOR cable! have you ever heard of the cable bureau? Obviously not... So they have a bureau that deals with cable companies. So what!! Their power is very limited and when they have exercised it, they got slapped down in court. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|  |  |  |   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| said by qworster :There's an entire division of the FCC just FOR cable! have you ever heard of the cable bureau? Obviously not... Nobody has heard of the FCC "cable bureau" because there isn't one.
There is the Video Division of the Media Bureau which handles Cable TV. But that certainly is not their only responsibility. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  |  |  |  JSRoman Premium join:2005-03-10 Callahan, FL
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing said by RadioDoc :said by qworster :There's an entire division of the FCC just FOR cable! have you ever heard of the cable bureau? Obviously not... Nobody has heard of the FCC "cable bureau" because there isn't one. There is the Video Division of the Media Bureau which handles Cable TV. But that certainly is not their only responsibility. Too funny. Some things just write themeselves.
WRONG!!!
Don't show your ignorance by stating things you know nothing about! -- »www.seabee.navy.mil | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
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| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing said by JSRoman :said by RadioDoc :said by qworster :There's an entire division of the FCC just FOR cable! have you ever heard of the cable bureau? Obviously not... Nobody has heard of the FCC "cable bureau" because there isn't one. There is the Video Division of the Media Bureau which handles Cable TV. But that certainly is not their only responsibility. Too funny. Some things just write themeselves. WRONG!!!
Don't show your ignorance by stating things you know nothing about! The Mass Media Bureau and Cable Bureau have merged to become simply the "Media Bureau." -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon "We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL | Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing He was being ironic. I'm pretty sure he (and anyone else who actually deals with the FCC) knew that already. The 'merger' happened awhile ago when cable was deregulated. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL | Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing Welcome to my hell. I am dealing with them every day... -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  |  |  TIGERON
join:2008-03-11 Pacifica, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
edit: March 20th, @04:13PM
| Thank you.
History has a way of repeating itself all over again as with the railroad monopolies of the 19th century and MA Bell of the 20th. They too were broken up. Comcasts' days of continuing to get away with murder is nearing an end.
»www.gilbertrandolph.com/about-news-64.html
This is already spreading to several states and many angry former subscribers are about to get even.
WATCH DAVID COHEN, BRIAN ROBERTS AND THE REST OF THE COMCAST BIG WIGS BE TAUGHT A LESSON AND BE BROUGHT BACK DOWN TO EARTH. | |
|  |  |   funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
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| said by TK Junk Mail :Comcast isn't a broadcaster like ABC, NBC, KYW, WPVI, etc. They don't have a LICENSE from the FCC that can be suspended. Yes, they do have FCC licenses, but I haven't researched what they cover and whether/if/how they might be in play in this case.
»www.fcc.gov/mb/attcomcast/ -- the licenses are enumerated in the Order. I'm sure there are more.
said by TK Junk Mail :What power the FCC has comes from the Congress when they deregulated cable TV. The power is relatively limited. And when a cable company hasn't liked what the FCC is doing they went to Federal court and won. So, the FCC is pretty much a toothless tiger unless & until Congress passes new laws that changes that. Throwing my own bias aside for a moment, let's assume you are right. The FCC sends Comcast a "Notice of Apparent Liability" (a fine) and Comcast fights and "wins."
1. The legislation required to give the FCC such power is sure to be passed, OR
2. The next time Comcast wants anything at all that requires approval, the FCC can use this example in demonstration of lack of cooperation, poor history of disclosure, bad-faith bargaining, anti-competitive behavior -- etc., OR
3. Both
Comcast should just reverse itself now and admit wrongdoing. This is what Verizon did with the NARAL codes, and it is very clear that the FCC and the public both are going to give that incident a pass. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon "We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. | |
|  |  |  |   TraumaJunkie Premium join:2004-03-05 Knoxville, TN
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing Throwing my own bias aside for a moment, let's assume you are right. The FCC sends Comcast a "Notice of Apparent Liability" (a fine) and Comcast fights and "wins."
1. The legislation required to give the FCC such power is sure to be passed, OR
2. The next time Comcast wants anything at all that requires approval, the FCC can use this example in demonstration of lack of cooperation, poor history of disclosure, bad-faith bargaining, anti-competitive behavior -- etc., OR
3. Both
Comcast should just reverse itself now and admit wrongdoing. This is what Verizon did with the NARAL codes, and it is very clear that the FCC and the public both are going to give that incident a pass. No, Comcast does not have a snowball's chance in hell until either (a) Martin is gone or (2)They change their name to VerizATTcast and have their primary business changed from cable to telephony. Then, as Verizon & ATT have shown, they will have carte blanc to do as they please without any FCC interferance. | |
|  |  |  |  |   A P CC Premium join:2003-07-26 ..
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing said by espaeth :said by A P CC :since WHEN does or can a private company dictate over how a gov't agency is run. Did lobbying disappear while I was sleeping? This is like the airlines or ALPA telling the FAA how we are going to 'skip" the rules until we get ready to fix a problem,and we can all see or have heard what SWA is going through when they "tried" to do this
the FCC need to also come down HARD on reguardless if its castrate,(ie comecast)dish, or dtv, the FCC needs to come down fast & hard,or its going to loose what little authority it has now, -- IF YOU ONLY look for the worst THATS ALL YOUR EVER GOING TO SEE. | |
|  |  |  |  espaeth Misanthrope Premium join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Re: C,C,better be careful about pushing That's a completely different situation.
In the case of SouthWest there were very specific safety regulations on the books that they violated and they solicited the help of their federal oversight officials to attempt to cover it up.
For Comcast, there is an open ended policy statement that describes the general theme for future broadband policy from the FCC. It's about as general as the "first, do no harm" mantra you hear in the medical profession, but more specific regulation was created so that the use of a scalpel for necessary medical procedures is allowed. (as on the surface, making incisions into the body could be perceived as "doing harm") | |
|  Yetskii
join:2002-03-01 Hazel Park, MI
edit: March 20th, @02:53PM
| Heh, 8000 things "If you're disclosing 8,000 things, no one's going to read these things," he said,
I for one would be very interested in reading about all 8000 things thank you.....and I am sure there are alot ofpeople who do as well. -- www.homelanfed.com
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|  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
 Gilitar
join:2000-11-20 Mobile, AL | AT&T all over again When a company feels like they are big enough to push the FCC around it's time they are put in their place.
It's just a matter of time before the FCC puts these idiots in their place. They have it coming. | |
|  |  See 11 replies to this post | |
 flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07 Jersey City, NJ
·Verizon FIOS
| Break'em Break'em! Let's break up comcast in 20 smaller companies, then like year later, they will all merge and go from 20 down to 10, then 5, then 3 then back to 1.
I'm waiting for Verizon to take over Embaq, then AT&T will merge with Verizon and since American Telephone & Telegraph sounds better than Verizon, the verizon name will go away. Then the FCC will be aka FCC an AT&T Company. | |
|  |  |  |  |  flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07 Jersey City, NJ | Re: Break'em Break'em! hahahah kid u not. | |
|   funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast
| "Technology is agnostic, but... [some] traffic is pirated." said by NCTA President :
"Technology is agnostic, but it is plainly the case that some significant percentage of the peer-to-peer traffic is pirated material."
--Kyle McSlarrow, president of the National Cable and Telecommunications AssociationAND WITH THAT LINE, he adds another reason that Cable TV companies should NOT be allowed to inspect and then discriminate on traffic at their whim.
The ISP is supposed to connect the end-user to the Internet Cloud and charge for said transit. If the ISP decides to inspect your packets to ensure you're not violating the copyrights and distribution rights of his Cable TV or its media partners, then your right to privacy is infringed.
Furthermore, we've already seen the collateral damage. Due to such inspection and "management," the Associated Press could not upload the King James Version of the Holy Bible (which has no copyright interest as it is in the Public Domain).
Way to go, NCTA! Thank you for making our point for us!
Robb Topolski -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon "We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. | |
|  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
  jonnyb
join:2008-03-15 Haverhill, NH | ISPs Want To Bill By The Byte Its only a matter of time, this should fix all the probs I bet you techies cant wait huh? | |
|  jellybean
join:2006-07-15 Shreveport, LA
| It don't matter... It won't matter what Comcast does or says,Big comapnys will do what they want as long as they get away with it a until enough people comaplain about it and someone gets threatened to not get re-elected! And then if the FCC DON"T have enough power to do anything, an new agency will be formed or a new branch and then so on and so long!. But nothing will become of the bigwigs...just a "Now you don't do that anymore you bad boy". | |
|  |  radam
join:2004-02-13 Fairfax Station, VA | Verizon competition target Looks like Comcast needs a dose of Verizon FIOS competition. Cox's attitude changed quite a bit in Fairfax County now that Verizon is in town! | |
|   UriahHeep
@verizon.net
| Comcast Traffic After reviewing the above posts, it appears that there are a millions solutions to the Comcast traffic problems.
Just think about this, Comcast could be compared to the GM of old, where their most famous statement was, "What' good for GM is good for the country", well we all know what happened to GM. One post, which talks about a Virginia county where FIOS is installed and running, seems to be the start of Comcast's downfall, because no matter what their STUPID ads for internet service say, you can only fit 5 pounds of s__it into a 5 gallon pail!!! | |
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