page: 1 · 2  |
 yt
Premium
join:2008-06-03 | How is this different... From DTV cards
From FiOS set tops | |
| 
baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Never will work If people start buying their own equipment, they will be able to sell it second hand. If this happens, people WILL SAVE MONEY, but companies wont troubleshoot that equipment, especially if its not on their "approved" list. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: Never will work That's why there should be open standards and everyone should standardize. | |
| | | 
jt7
@comcast.net
| Re: Never will work look up tru2way. it is already being done. comcomcast supports tru2way. Tru2Way capable TVs are 2-way without a box, allowing customers to access digital cable without a digital receiver.The first Tru2Way devices to be released is the Panasonic TH-42PZ80Q and the Panasonic TH-50PZ80Q | |
| | | | AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Re: Never will work In fairness, Tru2Way is a lot more than just 2-way without a box. Some consider that a good thing while others do not. | |
| | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| said by jt7 :
look up tru2way. it is already being done. comcomcast supports tru2way. Tru2Way capable TVs are 2-way without a box, allowing customers to access digital cable without a digital receiver.The first Tru2Way devices to be released is the Panasonic TH-42PZ80Q and the Panasonic TH-50PZ80Q
Tru2Way has finally moved to just beyond vaporware. There is no guaranty that it will be any more successful than cable cards and may in fact turn out to be too little too late. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Never will work "....and may in fact turn out to be too little too late."
In what way? "too little too late" has a big implication.. what are you trying to say? .. that cable will go out of business? or that this ruling will go through and true2way will be moot? .. That Satellite will dominate becuase of this; a service that is largely 1-way and has box rental fees? what? I don't get it...
Tru2Way is much more than cable cards, today, are.. Also, what you don't probably get, is that cable card is just fine.. they're capable of multiple stream, they're two way.. the problem is that the HARDWARE that is made is not capable of interactive services.
To be honest, if Tivo worked with Cablelabs and simply made their boxes capable of working with the DAC and other head end hardware the same as any moto or S/A box, this would be a non issue..
What's at play here is mostly politics than anything. | |
| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Never will work The problem is you practically have to wave firearms at the MSO to get them to cut loose with a CableCARD, and even then Comcast charges a ridiculous installation fee plus monthly rental, so that "consumers could get CableCARDs and a TiVO" is not quite as simple as the industry would like Karl to believe. Been there, done that. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Never will work I'll agree with you on the fees. It doesn't take a degree to install a cable card. Power down the device, insert card (anyone with an older laptop has likely used this type of card already) power on device, go into the menu, give numbers to operator.
The company would SAVE money by allowing self installs. In my opinion, give the chance for a self install. If you can't do it yourself and need a tech, then you should pay the roll. This is how Qwest used to do DSL installs.. (you did it for free, but you need a tech, you pay - makes sense) | |
| | | | | | | | | | | AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Re: Never will work Based on what? | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | I can't agree with these suits at all.. as a matter of fact, the government, first handed, is what has had a big part of the so-called "forced rental" of converters.
If you will recall back to the mid 90's when cable was regulated, de-regulated, regulated again, and so on and on, equipment was never charged to the customer; it was simply part of the price of cable.
The LAW came in and REQUIRED that the cable operators break out a line item to show the cost of equipment to the customer. Meantime, the additional outlets were no longer able to be charged for, the law required they line item equipment where necessary. Along with the change came mirror fees, which were allowed, and equipment rentals, and the free installation of outlets went away as well.
So now that equipment is charged and required to be line itemized, customers are angry and want to sue the providers for 'forced rental' of equipment?
This is a classic reason why anytime someone here says "I want the government to do X for us to "make things better" for the consumer" is why I say what I do.. The government, which includes the judicial branch, rarely does any favors to the consumer.
Now, to the reality.. and this is what people JUST DON'T GET!! This is NOT what someone really wants to push.. that $5 per box is not going to go away no matter how one tries to sue it out of existence. Comcast, for the most part, simply charges for the equipment rental on the additional outlet.. SOME systems do charge the "mirror" fee on top of box rentals.. and then some companies, like media com have been charging both for quite some time (equipment + mirror feet or as they call it the "gateway fee".)
What's going to happen is Comcast will stop charging for equipment to those that want to buy theirs, obviously, but you're GOING to see that very same fee BACK in the form of a "digital programming" fee, or "mirror fee" etc..
So really, what people are saying, in my summary, is:
1) The lawyers: We'll take the case, we need the money! We're in the business of telling another private industry how to run their business and will gladly take their money, but we really don't care about the consumer.
2) The customer: We want to buy the same crappy box that constantly has problems (according to many) and we want to buy it for a few hundred dollars. When the box breaks, we want to deal with warranty ourselves (unless we can get our attorneys to MAKE comcast extend a year warranty too even though most places will make you deal with the manufacture after 30 days) AND when that box breaks down, we don't want credit for the down time and PLEASE charge us to come out and diagnose our own equipment and charge us for it.. or, I'll gladly pay the $3.95 monthly wire charge, which will likely go up becuase of this.
3) Even with the box that we now own, PLEASE charge us the same charge for the programming of the box every month. I just want to own the box, not rent it and be responsible for that "piece of crap box" that you used to rent to us.. I just feel better about owning it now. Thank you!!
Seriously.. when July came around and the operators were forced to stop even deploying hardware already purchased that didn't have cable cards in it, do we all remember that...? ... it was suppose to open up the flood gates to all those profit hungry electronics companies just itching to make consumer converters... so, where are all those boxes on the wal-mart shelves and so on?? (Crickets chirping) Wow.. the government called that wrong too.. and just like the digital transition about to happen, that ruling wasn't new either.. everyone knew it was coming. So, you'd think with YEARS of knowledge, electronics manufactures had all that time to stock up on consumer boxes.. and didn't.
NOW consumers want the cable companies to sell THEIR boxes, or the ones they get, to the end user?
While personally, I have no issue with that.. and believe that there's nothing wrong with it (other than the same head ache over who owns the box, like the cable modem issues today) I just don't think that 1) there is going to be NO demand of people wanting to buy boxes and the law suite is all about money to the lawyers and those involved, and 2) this is NOT going to drop the price of the cable bill ONE cent, rather it will raise it in many cases, and people will ultimately will be even angrier realizing they're spending even more money on equipment, with the same head aches, and its costing them more per month, in the long run, to simply see the monthly fee go away.
The one thing history has shown is is that you can't legislate or win a verdict in court that will lower your bill. Anytime this kind of thing happens, it just causes a provider to find other ways to make life "pleasant" for the consumer. Even the very cable act in the 90's that was supposed to "lower bills" caused more than 80% of consumers to pay more per month when it took effect.
The law suit makes good press and riles people up, however, I don't think they know really how hard they are poking at the bee's hive. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ImoBeJoAss
join:2009-06-12
303339
| Re: Never will work Exactly the point. Comcast would probably welcome the idea of customers buying the boxes from them. When they break, the consumer has to handle fixing it, pay for fixing it, and probably deal with the vendors. I am sure that MSO's already pay a great deal in just maintaining this equipment. It's sort of like renting a house or an apartment? When you rent, its maintenance free, but when you buy... Its on your tab. | |
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guestuser
@verizon.net
| I suppose none of the detractors remember phone leases, and the $37.50 it cost for the installer repairman required to connect it. The cost of telephones was paid many times over by customers.
When modular became the norm, a telephone could be purchased for what four months rental cost those who still leased from their telco. My mother, who had continued leasing after modular was available, paid more than $500.00 to lease while I had paid $60 to buy two cheap phones. Let the compitition begin and see how the cost will fall. | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
 ·Comcast
| Re: Why? It is exactly for these reasons that the marketplace should be freed up. Purchasing from Comcast would be one option, but even better, buy a better box at your local WorstBuy or whatever.
Or, for example, I have a media PC. I can only get clear QAM reception because no one allows an encryption card to be installed unless you buy a special PC that has been locked down. | |
| | | 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Why? said by SLD  :It is exactly for these reasons that the marketplace should be freed up. Purchasing from Comcast would be one option, but even better, buy a better box at your local WorstBuy or whatever. Or, for example, I have a media PC. I can only get clear QAM reception because no one allows an encryption card to be installed unless you buy a special PC that has been locked down. Tivo?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | | |
joebdragon
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: Why? said by dadkins :said by SLD :It is exactly for these reasons that the marketplace should be freed up. Purchasing from Comcast would be one option, but even better, buy a better box at your local WorstBuy or whatever. Or, for example, I have a media PC. I can only get clear QAM reception because no one allows an encryption card to be installed unless you buy a special PC that has been locked down. Tivo? still have to rent the cable card and maybe even the SDV add on as well. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Why? said by joebdragon :said by dadkins :said by SLD :It is exactly for these reasons that the marketplace should be freed up. Purchasing from Comcast would be one option, but even better, buy a better box at your local WorstBuy or whatever. Or, for example, I have a media PC. I can only get clear QAM reception because no one allows an encryption card to be installed unless you buy a special PC that has been locked down. Tivo? still have to rent the cable card and maybe even the SDV add on as well. Even if you purchase a box, you're still likely to pay for a "mirror" fee on top of the fact you own it. This has been going on since digital cable started and satellite has been doing it since day one.. on owned equipment.
Many systems charge a small $1.99 fee on the cable card.. not much. But, even if you ever were able to purchase the same box the cable company uses, they're just going to charge you to activate the "outlet" instead.. | |
| | | |
SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | Why would I want to buy a Tivo when I have a media PC? Tivo isn't even close to as flexible when it comes to software or storage options. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Why? I have three(3) media PCs - I know what you are saying.
But to get the non-ClearQAM channels - you have to pay.
Now, you can choose the $3.00(?) for a cable card, or the $5.99(?) for a cable box.
*OR*...
You can a free box like I did with the triple play.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
·Comcast
| Re: Why? The problem is that I can't use a cable card in my Media PC. The cable companies have conspired with the tuner companies to prevent them from selling the tuners that accept cable cards to PC users unless they buy a new PC with limitations built in. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Why? Those DAMN conspiracies!!! Yea.. I remember when Windows MediaCenter Edition was only available on new computers from authorized retailers too.. and now you can buy it anywhere you want..
.. funny how that works.
As with MCE itself, they initially launched the software the same as they are the CC tuners. They did so in order to ensure that the correct hardware was being used so that the software worked as predicted. I think MS has a right to want to ensure that their software is used according to specs so that the idiot geeks that try to run it on underpowered hardware don't bash the company for "building a POS o/s"... Well, I think that the CC tuner is the same way, for now. ATI has them but ship only with authorized partner's computers, at this time. Since they just came out in a relatively recent amount of time, I believe if you just wait a little bit, like everything else related, they will be available on the open market.
There's one mentality, today, that I just don't get.. and that's the "I'm entitled" mentality that makes people believe they're always entitled to have what they want, when they want, and HOW they want and it's some how a "god given right".. I REALLY love the radio that GM uses in their vehicles. It was well thought out.. you can have AM/FM/XM all on the same soft presets.. user interface is pretty easy to get to.. I like it! So damn it! I want to buy one and put it in my Ford truck.. maybe I should sue and make them offer it to me in my Ford as well, right? That's just one of many examples I can make.. just becuase something is made on the market doesn't mean that it's going to be available the way YOU want it.. to this date, you can't get an iPhone on any network other than ATT in the U.S., and you can't buy NFL Sunday Ticket unless you're on DirecTV.
As the song says.. "you can't always get what you want..." | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Why? said by fiberguy :Since they just came out in a relatively recent amount of time, I believe if you just wait a little bit, like everything else related, they will be available on the open market. They came out over 2 years ago. In computer terms, that was forever ago.
I REALLY love the radio that GM uses in their vehicles. It was well thought out.. you can have AM/FM/XM all on the same soft presets.. user interface is pretty easy to get to.. I like it! So damn it! I want to buy one and put it in my Ford truck.. maybe I should sue and make them offer it to me in my Ford as well, right? That's just one of many examples I can make.. just becuase something is made on the market doesn't mean that it's going to be available the way YOU want it.. Your car radio analogy is poor. You can get aftermarket radios to put into your Ford if you want. Ford doesn't prohibit you from using your truck if the radio wasn't provided by them. Ford also doesn't require you to pay a monthly rental fee in order to listen to their inferior radio.
to this date, you can't get an iPhone on any network other than ATT in the U.S., Sure you can. Many people have their iPhones working on T-Mobile. There are hundreds of sites that sell unlocked iPhones or can unlock a locked phone. And you can always import one from overseas. You will pay premium for an unlocked phone and won't get a contract discount from your carrier, but AT&T isn't the only option.
| |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Why? Okay, you're REALLY stretching here in an attempt to invalidate my points..
iPhone first: No, they are not MADE for T-mobile and HACKING a phone doesn't count.. even hacked they still don't function correctly as intended. Enough said. MY POINT was that in CONTEXT of this discussion, people are wanting to buy THE SAME ITEM that cable has for themselves. MY point is that they don't have to allow that. Same as you can't for apple to make the iPhone for you to buy and use how ever you want.
As for the car analogy, no.. you're wrong.. it was RIGHT on point! Again, I wanted that very radio MADE BY FORD to be MADE AVAILABLE TO ME FOR PURCHASE so that I can use it in my ford as I WANTED it.. but, they don't ... the radio doesn't fit.. The POINT is proper.. it's simple.. just becuase the customer WANTS something, doesn't mean they are entitled to it.
What people are asking is that a company, Motorola here, to make the very box they sell the cable company be made available for them to purchase.. and there is no law that requires it.
The market was opened up.. I don't see a flood of action on the electronics manufactures to stock store shelves with them.
And quite trying to make your point sound better by using words like "inferior" etc.. it doesn't work for you at all. There are good products, there are INCREDIBLE products and then some that are inferior, as you are saying here.. either way, they are an item that works.. inferior is a relative term. You're comparing the box to someone else's box, such as Tivo probably which is available to you, OR your own opinion - which is irrelevant.
The boxes they provide to you work and do the job they are supposed to. They tune to a channel, they provide you the video.. that's all. If satellite provides you a better box, guess what? .. that's competition working for you.. exercise that option in a competitive market place.
Laws don't speak about "inferior" devices.. never will. And as for ATT, it's fine that you want to violate the terms of service in so many levels.. but when we're talking about right and wrong, my arguments/side will always go based on facts, not feelings and not work-arounds. | |
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
| Re: Why? said by fiberguy :Okay, you're REALLY stretching here in an attempt to invalidate my points.. He is not. Your points are just wrong. Your fanatical corporate defense does not mask the abusive business practices. Or maybe you feel that it would be right to have a choice ONLY an AT&T provided phone, in order to use the "right" equipment with a phone line...
Competition and open standards are what have been driving the American technology force. These changes will only get some corporations some money in the short run and destroy our technological superiority. For your understanding level, it is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
--
Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by dadkins :I have three(3) media PCs - I know what you are saying. But to get the non-ClearQAM channels - you have to pay. Now, you can choose the $3.00(?) for a cable card, or the $5.99(?) for a cable box. *OR*... You can a free box like I did with the triple play. At least until your promo ends.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by SLD :Why would I want to buy a Tivo when I have a media PC? Tivo isn't even close to as flexible when it comes to software or storage options. Not the mention the steep listings fee, recording infomercials without asking, ads. tivo meh 
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| What does being able to purchase a box and a locked down PC have to do with the same argument at hand?
The market place is already freed up.. that happened on a hot July day. However, there's no flood of box makers out there rushing to WalMart to sell them is there?
My understanding is that HP makes a cable card enabled Media Center PC.. you're still going to function no different than a Tivo.
I don't think that the law states you have to offer a box with two way services such as OnDemand and even the guide function.. it said that they had to offer a secondary access system, which is cable card.. and people have that now.
So we're not seeing a lawsuit over box purchases becuase that's possible now.. NOW people want the cable box so they can own the one that gives you the "crappy OnDemand" that "never works".. I just see this suit as nothing more than a "cash grab" for some.. Hmmm.. wonder where that came from.
And personally, I'd like to find a way to stop the idiot that's pushing this.. becuase in the end, HIS quest and desire to make 15 minutes of fame will ultimately cost the rest of us MORE money in the future when the industry figures out how to lash back.. maybe more fee's for truck rolls, higher installation costs, outlet mirror fees.. you name it.. | |
| | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Why? Let's just nationalize the cable companies and get it over with. Maybe Big Ed would like to run those once GM is planted six feet under.
rant rant rant rant.
Cut the cable. You'll feel better and live longer. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Why? You know what Doc,.. I actually agree with what you're saying.. believe it or not.
What I don't understand, is simple.. TV, no matter WHO provides it, remains a luxury. (Except OTA) If people are going to get THAT worked up over television that they have to sue, or nitpick over how much power a box consumes, or any other "issue" other than getting the service you pay for, then really.. get rid of TV. There are FAR better things to do with one's time than let something like television get people so worked up.
I believe if someone wants something, they should pay for it.. if it's not priced where they want it.. don't take it.. sooner or later, if enough people exercise that option, they'll get it. But, at the same time, if I pay $50 a month, or $200 a month, I DO expect it at least works as advertised and/or they make an HONEST effort to make it work correctly. ALL providers have the ability to make what they sell work correctly if they apply themselves and care.
But, if I can't get what I'm paying for.. it's going to head out the door. Believe it or not, I too have had some choice words with Comcast.. and you knowing what you do about me, trust me, it wasn't pretty in the end, but I won and they complied. I had an issue with my service as well and it ended up being "escalated to the government level".. and by all methods, a CSR actually did the escalation with out me even knowing.
But anyway.. especially in this economy, CUT THE CORD! There's better things to do with that money.. and that includes NOT buying converter boxes... | |
| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Why? Yep. And DirecTV does what cable TV does for half the price. Plus, I don't have the random outages (you know, 70 degrees and sunny, nothing but snow on the tee vee) that Comcast is famous for here.
OTA rulez, cable drools. | |
| | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Agreed completely. I've had the same problems with those worthless SA boxes (went through 3 here). Why on earth would I want to buy them when each time they break I can call Comcast and they come and replace it?
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
| | |
See 11 replies to this post | |
| 
ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
1 edit | said by Chris 313 :Why would I wanna buy equipment (Modems excluded, Moto 5100 still going 5 1/2 years later) from Comcast. Back when they were still running under Time Warner Cable, I went through like 5 SA8300 DVR boxes. They kept dying, poor picture quality, losing recordings despite settings. The Moto 6412 DVR box I have now works, but I'm starting to have recordings problems with this box. I'm probably gonna trade it in soon and see if that solves my problem. I wouldn't wanna buy a box like this, especially if I continue to have problems time and time again in the same spots. But that's the thing. Right now you are tied to the crappy stuff put out by Comcast. They contract with a certain company to make their boxes and that is the only choice.
Quit charging rental fees or open up the system for the end user to purchase their own equipment. When the system is opened up there will be more demand, more manufacturers will get into the game and produce better equipment, more features, and an overall better (hardware) experience. | |
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Why? The "system" is already open... there is no demand.
But, I'll assume that you're wanting a box that is capable of OnDemand, right?? .. that's that service that people, more so, say that is worthless.. right?
But, since you get your first box free with your package, you're really talking about the second box for most people anyway.
And, let me correct you.. "Comcast" and other cable companies (people need to stop attacking comcast directly as it's the industry in whole that operates the same way in this country) do not "put out crappy stuff"... last time I checked, Motorola and Scientific Atlanta are the ones that "put out the crappy stuff".. | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo
| Re: Why? said by fiberguy :The "system" is already open... there is no demand. But, I'll assume that you're wanting a box that is capable of OnDemand, right?? .. that's that service that people, more so, say that is worthless.. right? But, since you get your first box free with your package, you're really talking about the second box for most people anyway. And, let me correct you.. "Comcast" and other cable companies (people need to stop attacking comcast directly as it's the industry in whole that operates the same way in this country) do not "put out crappy stuff"... last time I checked, Motorola and Scientific Atlanta are the ones that "put out the crappy stuff".. So, you are saying I can go to Motorola or SA and buy a box directly from them and Comcast will accept it and allow me to do so. Forget pricing for right now.
I wasn't meaning to harp on Comcast directly, as it is all cable companies that do this. They just happen to be the subject of the article posted. You are right, it is Motorala and SA that are putting out the "crappy" stuff. However, there is no market for anyone else to really put any effort into building boxes as these companies are the ones "chosen" by the cable companies and the end user cannot buy their own.
If the customer was allowed to BYOD then there would be other companies out there developing their own boxes to sell and more pressure would be put on Motorola and SA to fix theirs. | |
| | | | | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
| Re: Why? Comcast is not preventing you from purchsing a box from MOto or SA. Additionally, you can buy a Tivo or a cable card PC/TV if you don't want to rent their box. I don't see what the problem is.
If there were real demand for Tru2Way stuff you'd see it in the marketplace. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You can BYOD right now.. Tivo and DCTV Ready sets via cable card.
As for them sticking with Motorola and S/A, well, that's a technology issue as you can' only have one manufacture standard per system at this time when it comes to interactive services. Comcast, Cox, TWC, et all, none of them can simply say "well, we use Moto, but we'll go ahead and let you use S/A too.. " ... not on the interactive side (2way) of the system.. to do so, with current technology, is simply not going to happen. So, if you live in a moto system, you get crappy moto boxes. If you live in an S/A system, you get crappy S/A boxes.
Until the other platforms are up and running (Tru2Way) and systems are retrofitted with the equipment to handle them, this is the way it is for now.. and the companies are compliant with the law.
There are some mis-understandings for some people. These laws that the average person is trying to break down, are not being done so correctly. Some people still believe that every HD box must have a firewire port on them. In fact, the rules say that the system/operator has to HAVE them available.. So long as one model has the option, they are compliant. As for allowing customers to buy their own boxes, that's already available. At this time, the OnDemand service is about the only thing you can't get "as a service" from the company on a customer owned box... and I don't believe the law states that you have to make that available as written. Further, I also don't believe the law, as written, or any other cases being cited in this forum, say that the company has to make available, for purchase, any of the exact equipment with the same features as they offer their own customers. They don't have to sell cable modems.. those are available by retailers.. I see this as the same thing as Tivo and DCTV ready sets and cable cards. And with the cards, I believe you get the first one free.. again, nothing says they have to make available, for free, something for every set you own. They cover you on the first/primary outlet, and that meets requirements.
So as it stands, customers are allowed to BYOD, as you say. | |
|
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Free HD Free HD - no service or equipment charges
Access to over 1,000 HD choices
Over 80 digital channels
Channel 1 On Demand with over 10,000 movies and programs
Over 45 channels of digital music
100% digital-quality picture and sound
Now, tell me again why I should purchase a cable box. 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| |
See 19 replies to this post | |
i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS | the reason i would like option of buying one just for kids room, i only need the dam thing for one channel.
--
calling a illegal alien undocumented is like calling a drug dealer a undocumented pharmacist | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: the reason said by i1me2ao :i would like option of buying one just for kids room, i only need the dam thing for one channel. If that's the case, buy a Tivo.. since you're not using OnDemand and all that.. get a Tivo.. OR, buy a cable card capable TV. | |
| | |
i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS | Re: the reason it new pbs kids channel and it is listed as on demand. | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: the reason said by i1me2ao :it new pbs kids channel and it is listed as on demand. Then it's not a channel.. it's Video OnDemand.
So you know, if we're going to start calling an OnDemand category a "channel" you're going to open up a can of worms.. becuase then you validate the argument that Comcast DOES have "More HD *Channels* than.." as some people around here like to claim they are saying.. so just be careful..
So yea, ... as of now, OnDemand is not available on a customer owned box.. just the linear channels through your TV direct (cable card) or a Tivo box with cable card capabilities. | |
| 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Not sure if I care Interesting I've seen several class action notices come my way recently. Most of them amount to being entitled to $20 or some such thing.
Really not worth my time.
Having said that though, it's annoying to pay Comcast for the rental, especially with how they stack fees on HD boxes. However, given their apparent distaste for supporting CableCards (and the relative lack of any enforcement in that area), having the Comcast supplied box seems the most appropriate from a support standpoint.
If the thing goes TU, I get a new one, no other cost involved. Can't say that about my TiVo.
I can also see where with all the older boxes that would appear on the market, there would be a vast disparity of what boxes support what over the long term. Sounds like a systems nightmare. And you bet Comcast et al would throw up their hands and say "oh well, too bad for you" and I can't say I blame them for that.
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TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
| | | | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Not sure if I care said by iansltx :Standards, man, standards. Let's call a standard DVROI (Digital Video Recorder Open Initiative) DVROI-SD - Records SD content DVROI-HD720 - Records HD at 720p DVROI-HD1080i - Records HD at 1080i DVROI-HD1080p - Records HD at 1080p DVROI-OD - Does on-demand Just have an easy way of describing standards and you're good. I think most of the public knows about WiFi now, and they know that WiFi N is better than WiFi G etc. Which is all fine & good in theory...now let's see it implemented. 
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TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
| | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: Not sure if I care Don't lose faith Just make it an IEEE standard like WiFi, Ethernet etc. and see what goes...we have standards for codecs (MPEG-2, MPEG-4) etc. so why not have a standard for STBs? | |
| | | BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| *Pulls out sock puppets
"I'm Comcast - I have deal with MOTO to sell box - I HAPPY"
"I'm consumer, I want box for kid's room + extra for guest room, where 2 buy?"
"I'm companyX, I have DVR, you buy?"
Comcast goes "NOMNOMNOM" on companyX and consumer.
Standards are good, but hard to get. I like yours, easy to understand. Then again, aren't consumers supposed to be dumb like most companies want them to be? They certainly can't learn can they? | |
| 
dathing
join:2002-01-09
Sykesville, MD
| You'll pay one way or another They'll just roll any revenue loss into other fees or increased service charges. A few years back our power company (BG&E) charged a monthly "meter rental fee". I called and asked to buy it and they of course had no idea. Over time they took enough grief that the monthly "rental fee" was just changed to a "service fee" at the same price. | |
| | neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA | Re: You'll pay one way or another yeah, even if you could own your own boxes, they probably would add a "customer owned equipment on network allowance fee" or something stupid like that | |
| | |
joebdragon
@sbcglobal.net | Re: You'll pay one way or another they will just hit you with outlet fees and mirroring fees | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: You'll pay one way or another said by joebdragon :
they will just hit you with outlet fees and mirroring fees
the same as satellite does today.. yup! | |
| 
syslock
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Ann Arbor, MI
clubs:
·Comcast
| Setup your own. I got sick of it! Why pay the cable co's for limited junk boxs with bad menus, when you can have something better?
I setup my own prv server with SageTV and run hd200 boxs to my tv's. I can do a lot of cool stuff from my tv now.
If I want to put a recorded show on a portable device and take it with me, I can do that too. No more locked down dvr box's from the cable co!
You can buy your own cable modem and have it put on an account, why not cable boxs? Oh I forgot the nickle and dimming of the customers.... All that value they provide me by having the company equipment instead of my own. (Yeah right) | |
| | |
See 6 replies to this post | |
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
2 edits | Cable should just let people buy the boxes A) when people see a box is $300 they'll stick with their $5 a month rental
B) if they do buy and it goes kaput, then they find out there no support for store bought boxes and they have to send them back to the manufacturer( assuming it's till under warrenty ) and have to wait weeks to get it back. They'll go back to renting.
Either way it's not hurting Comcast or any other cable company. | |
| |
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Cable should just let people buy the boxes said by BF69 :Either way it's not hurting Comcast or any other cable company. Then why not let us own? i've probably paid for my box 3 times over in rental fees! @ $18/mo
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
| 
n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Owning Your Own Equipment The whole set top box issue should be handled like a cable modem. There should be a standard in place, like DOCSIS, that allows any compliant device to be hooked up and registered with the cable company, just like a cable modem. When cable modems first came out, they were quite expensive but competition forced the prices down. Set top boxes are $300+ now but enterprising manufacturers could probably cut that in half easily if they had to compete with others making the same device.
I am sure the cable companies are doing quite well from the rental fees for the box and separate rental for the remote. After their initial investment in the equipment itself is paid off, everything else is free money. I am sure they have a contract with the manufacturer to fix all broken boxes so they probably just accumulate the broken ones and ship them off for repair once they have a truck load. If a consumer spends $100 on a set top box and it breaks after two years, it will be cheaper to go out and buy a newer box than to have it fixed.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| 
Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
| Buy, buy, buy! Well having the option to buy doesn’t mean you would be forced to buy the box. So I can’t see why anyone would be against having the option with respect to not having the option.
Also, buying a product such as this should always be accompanied with a warranty of at least one year whereby any defect would result in replacement free of charge. In addition an extended support plan should also be offered up to a period of 3 years at a nominal additional fee. A buy back policy should also be available should the user wish to terminate service provided the box is still in good working order (this helps illuminates a resale to third parties). An option to buy a third-party upgrade box should be available too. I know my Motorola DCT5100 units have never failed me and I wouldn’t want anything less.
I’ll also add that some form of protocol should be strictly enforced such as a notification grace period of at least 6 months (I’d prefer a year) before any system changes could take place to render the boxes obsolete / unserviceable with respect to the services they access.
Finally, I have had RCN cable in NYC for about 8 years. In that timeframe I have had two cable boxes with a rental fee of between $10 USD to ~$12USD. For these calculations lets just assume ~$12USD.
$12 x 12 months = $144 per box for a total of $288 a year in rent fees.
$288 x 8 years = $2,304.
There is no way in hell these boxes are worth that much money (as good as they may be) and they keep generating cash for the cable provider.
Again I can’t see how any subscriber would be against the option of buying. I would have gladly bought my boxes at about ~$300 each maybe a little more. | |
| |
joebdragon
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: Buy, buy, buy! Essentially, Comcast offers the same service for a (different) price, depending upon the perceived affluence of particular areas and their ability to pay, in violation of state and federal law," the suit states.
is right as they have a lot stuff in higher tears that other areas have in the lower ones. Stuff like sci-if has been analog for ever but not in comcast Chicago they have in there high level digital tear. In other areas you get it with the starer level. | |
| MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| This is just like the Phone Company Way back when, you had to rent equipment from the Phone Company. You could get any phone you wanted so long it was in one of their 2-3 lines and 6 or so colors. Not much choice.
Then, they opened it up so that you could buy equipment. It really opened up the answering machine business. It also created much more choice. You could also continue to rent from the Phone Company.
I think cable should be the same. Set up a standard and allow people to buy or rent equipment from whoever they want. | |
| | biglittlewil
join:2009-04-02
Seattle, WA | Re: This is just like the Phone Company Tru2Way addresses this issue. Read up on it. | |
| | | MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: This is just like the Phone Company I am aware of Tru2Way. It is close but not a complete solution. I think it leaves too much in the control of the Cable Company. I would like to see Sony and Panasonic and other companies provide their own interfaces - like Tivo does. With Tru2Way, most of the interface and all applications will be delivered from the head end. It is kind of like the way Verizon controls cell phones with the GetItNow feature. | |
| | majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY | hmm Last time i checked you can get a cablecard and buy your own tivo box so wouldnt that invalidate the lawsuit? | |
| | | | | | cableman0327
join:2004-10-10
Westminster, MD | Buy it , Buy it. Oh Please buy your own, and when it gets hit with lighting or a power surge, oops, you own it, you can buy another one.... | |
| | |
Mike927
@comcast.net
| I dont get it So this is my question. You have to either buy or lease equipment from any TV provider. My uncle has satelite and the DVR took a crap on him, now he has to shell out a hundred+ dollars for a new one, for the third time. My buddy has U-Verse and he pays box rental fees, I have Comcast, DVR died on me once, and a new one was brought out. | |
|
Sums it up
@rr.com
| Sums it up as posted above. Posted by someone above:
This about sums it all up.
2) The customer: We want to buy the same crappy box that constantly has problems (according to many) and we want to buy it for a few hundred dollars. When the box breaks, we want to deal with warranty ourselves (unless we can get our attorneys to MAKE comcast extend a year warranty too even though most places will make you deal with the manufacture after 30 days) AND when that box breaks down, we don't want credit for the down time and PLEASE charge us to come out and diagnose our own equipment and charge us for it.. or, I'll gladly pay the $3.95 monthly wire charge, which will likely go up becuase of this.
3) Even with the box that we now own, PLEASE charge us the same charge for the programming of the box every month. I just want to own the box, not rent it and be responsible for that "piece of crap box" that you used to rent to us.. I just feel better about owning it now. Thank you!! | |
| | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Sums it up as posted above. said by Sums it up :
Posted by someone above:
This about sums it all up.
2) The customer: We want to buy the same crappy box that constantly has problems (according to many) and we want to buy it for a few hundred dollars. When the box breaks, we want to deal with warranty ourselves (unless we can get our attorneys to MAKE comcast extend a year warranty too even though most places will make you deal with the manufacture after 30 days) AND when that box breaks down, we don't want credit for the down time and PLEASE charge us to come out and diagnose our own equipment and charge us for it.. or, I'll gladly pay the $3.95 monthly wire charge, which will likely go up becuase of this.
3) Even with the box that we now own, PLEASE charge us the same charge for the programming of the box every month. I just want to own the box, not rent it and be responsible for that "piece of crap box" that you used to rent to us.. I just feel better about owning it now. Thank you!!
No the thing is you are forced to rent the carp box and can't buy one / have more box choice also what is up with the cable guard fees /protection plans that should cover the cables and not the tech fees and other stuff that you can get hit with when you swap a box. If you are renting then a swap should be fee and if you need to send a tech out to do that then that needs to be free. | |
| | |
Me Again
@rr.com
| Re: Sums it up as posted above. How about you get off your butt and swap it out at the office you probably pass on your way out and about anyway. There you go...free!
1. You are already out
2. Swap your box
3. How do you know the equipment is faulty anyway?
4. If you are that qualified then you should be able to fix it yourself anyway
5. Go buy a Tru2way device when they come out and shut up! | |
| 
FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| Under suburban cablevision.. We had a simple 50 dollar security deposit. When SC was bought out by comcast, they gave us back the 50, then started charging per month.
I'd rather pay a monthly fee for 3-6 months then own it no more rental fees. Charge me for service, not a box that has long been paid off.
In fact i'd rather be paying vz for real tv, not over-compressed crap. I'm not a contractor, i don't like tiling.
- A
--
LETS GO METS! | |
| crginc
Premium
join:2003-03-28
Thousand Oaks, CA
 ·Covad Wireless
| What Ever Happen To Cable-Ready Television? The advantage cable alway had was one could buy a cable ready set and plug it into any outlet in the house. They way the cable industry is going with encripted basic channels etc. They are loosing homes to satellite. There is isn't much difference. Both require boxes on every TV. When I moved into my home a couple of years ago evenbody in the neighborhood was on cable. Now almost every other home as a satellite antenna on the roof. Good luck cable. You will need it. | |
| | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: What Ever Happen To Cable-Ready Television? said by crginc :The advantage cable alway had was one could buy a cable ready set and plug it into any outlet in the house. They way the cable industry is going with encripted basic channels etc. They are loosing homes to satellite. There is isn't much difference. Both require boxes on every TV. When I moved into my home a couple of years ago evenbody in the neighborhood was on cable. Now almost every other home as a satellite antenna on the roof. Good luck cable. You will need it. even back then if you wanted a ppv you need a box or HBO, SHOW, MAX, STARS, needed a box in some systems. | |
| | |
anon4
@optonline.net
| Re: What Ever Happen To Cable-Ready Television? said by Joe12345678 :said by crginc :The advantage cable alway had was one could buy a cable ready set and plug it into any outlet in the house. They way the cable industry is going with encripted basic channels etc. They are loosing homes to satellite. There is isn't much difference. Both require boxes on every TV. When I moved into my home a couple of years ago evenbody in the neighborhood was on cable. Now almost every other home as a satellite antenna on the roof. Good luck cable. You will need it. even back then if you wanted a ppv you need a box or HBO, SHOW, MAX, STARS, needed a box in some systems. i think the point being missed is the huge price increase involved with digital cable on the consumer side, i have 6 tv's each one needs a digital box, $6.95 each per month, $41.70 per month.. my cable was only $50 a month, now, it's $91.70 just to get the SAME channels i did before.. and there's no way around that.. THAT is what people don't like.. you can't buy anything that don't involve a huge rental fee.. and those cablecard tv's.. try fitting one of those in a bedroom!!.. only the large screen tv's have those!!.. | |
| | | |
Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
| Re: What Ever Happen To Cable-Ready Television? Actually my cable fees have gone up considerably and the service has declined under the guise of an upgrade. We used to get maybe ~200 channels of analog TV across the raw feed without a cable box. So ever TV could receive a very rich channel lineup. RCN under “Analog Crush” has done away with analog altogether so this is no longer possible. If that’s not bad enough, we used to get about ~$140+ Clear QAM channels with a nice smattering of HD channels of which included “The National Geographic Channel HD” TBS-HD, TNT-HD, SNY-HD and more now we essentially only receive the local channels via Clear QAM but we also get about 30 or so “Digital Audio Services” of pure commercial free (DRM free) music.
All while they have doubled the basic rate.
I’m tempted to just drop them to tell you the truth. Since we get cable internet we could still receive Clear QAM at no charge but I don’t want to do that. I could also pay 1/3 of what I am paying now for one yr if I switch to another cable provider’s internet service. | |
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Comcast Sued Again Over Forced Equipment Leases
Enforce the Cable Television Consumer Protection act of 1992
It appears that our government has failed to enforce the Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act of 1992. How long will it take Reed Hunt to apply the Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act of 1992 to digital transmission technology. Before the CATV Industry introduced digital cable the majority of channels were transmitted unscrambled. Consumers could use their cable ready television sets without renting a box and remote control from the cable company. The exception was premium and pay per view channels. Most Cable Companies used Tier Traps to filter out blocks of channels that the subscriber did not subscribe to.