said by chemaupr :

$1200 are you insaine? That will make the rental of one at least $33 buck a month assuming a breakeven in the hardware at 36 month. Not even the cable companies will buy something like that to lease...

Look at the average HD playback hardware *they have similar if not superior components* out there... then add 50 bucks for an 80 gigs hd or so... That is what it should be priced at retail which means it porbably cost less to make....

said by majortom1029 :

Yeah but then tivo also charges you monthly for the service.

said by baineschile :

Thats how much it may cost the consumer. Remember, cable buys in bulk

said by jmn1207 :

I don't think the issue is not having someone make cable boxes for consumers, I think the problem is that consumers should be allowed to purchase the models currently being used by Comcast, complete with standard definition menu screens, a measly 160GB hard drive, and video on demand support.

said by Zoder :

I would think Cisco and Motorola enjoy the market as it currently exists. Right now they have guaranteed demand for STB's at grossly inflated prices. Why give that up unless forced to by Congress or the courts.

said by fiberguy :

So.. but yourself 3 Tivo boxes.. and, I do also believe that Verizon applied for a waiver to excuse themselves from the requirement to have separable security boxes.

I'm sorry if this doesn't fit in the spirit of factless based bashing of greedy corps.

said by sonicmerlin :

$1200? Are you nuts? More like sub $100.

said by baineschile :

A Tivo series 3 is $300-400, and thats with no tuner.

said by sonicmerlin :

$1200? Are you nuts? More like sub $100.

said by dcdeadbeat :

When you were able to buy DVRs from Dish Network they were in the $800-$1000 range. The price was so high that Dish Network switched over to a lease structure. It is no surprise that the cable companies do the same thing. Most people have no idea how much these things actually cost.

said by jwersan :

My last two Dish DVRS were less that $200.
I own both...
SD single tuner boxes.

said by sonicmerlin :

$1200? Are you nuts? More like sub $100.

said by ender7074 :

DVR boxes cost a lot more than 300-400 bucks. More like 1200 bucks.

said by baineschile :

Situation A: We can buy cable boxes.

A DVR box will cost $300-400 bucks; which, over time, is of less cost than paying the $15/month (or whatever operators charge). But, if the technology changes (IE smart-card boxes, tru-2 way, maybe new whole home DVR box functions), then it will be up to the consumer to have to buy new equipment? I dont see anyone putting up that type of investment for a changing technology.

Also, lets say we can buy boxes, and a house has one box for one TV. And that box breaks down. Is it the responsibilty of the cable operator to credit the time without TV, or the manufacturer of the equipment? When the cable controls it, yes its a bit more expensive, but you can now just call your cable company with any problems; not have to slice and dice responsiblilty.

Remember, cable OPs buy their equipment in bulk. The price per box would go up if sold individually; and may lead to contracts with cable operators.

I dont think any major operator would mind losing the box expense; i cant even imagine how many boxes they rent out that never get returned, that are a direct loss for them.

Situation B: We can only rent boxes.

We will always have the most up to date, compatible equipment, supplied and troubleshot by one company.

The bad news is that this is more expensive over time. The all mighty dollar. Pay a few bucks more fot that convenience? Or just sue any major cable operator for as much money as you can.

said by fiberguy :

... don't say "all consumer electronics".. Last I looked, cell phone prices, in a whole, have no come down.. and many good flat screen televisions are still up there in price.

Sure, you say that the item itself comes down in price, however, the movement forward keeps the average price at the selling point they want.. so even if a specific item comes down in price, it does so when the item is out of cycle / dead stock being moved to clear.. its replacement generally comes in at the same price, if not higher sometimes.

It's all how you want to look at it.. and then apply general applications to it.

said by veldy :

CableCards should be free to the customers or nearly so.

said by veldy :

Some people have been known to get screwed by a poorly informed CSR by getting charged a Digital Access Fee, which is incorrect.

said by veldy :

For a Tivo; almost certainly Tivo will update software on their boxes to account for this and start offering added benefit to those that get two-way cards.

said by veldy :

As far as the cost of a DVR, they can be purchased for much less than they actually cost, but there is usually an obligation involved. Tivo requires one year of service (just buy the life-time subscription and get it over with ... at today's retail price that amounts to $700 per unit).

said by bicker :

The TiVo was not designed to be a two-way host device in this regard, so a software upgrade won't help -- it doesn't have the necessary hardware on-board. Instead it uses a tuning adapter as an intermediary. Same effect, though.

said by veldy :

Are you sure about that?

said by veldy :

Comcast has been working closely with Tivo for a few years now; mostly on those Motorola POS devices they call a DVR. However, they have also worked to make the cable card compatible. The guy that installed my card mentioned that he is surprised the two-way cable cards aren't available yet so that Tivo users can get On-Demand features (clearly that would requires some sort of software update on the Tivo and it would likely have to be generic enough to work with multiple providers ... although my Tivo is aware that I use Comcast, if only for reasons of pulling down the proper guide data).

said by dvd536 :

You *aren't* going to be saving when you buy your own box because the cableco will just make an unfee line item to get that amount from you.
you CANNOT beat the big boys at their own game!

said by therob006 :

Let me start off by saying that I have read through a majority of the posts and I really want to set a few things straight. I work for Comcast and I've dealt with customer owned boxes.

Comcast does allow customer-owned boxes onto the network. There is a procedure that we have to follow to make sure the box was not taken from another system. There were only two Motorola boxes that people could buy, 501 and 601, which were cable boxes with built in DVD player and stereo. No other company sold boxes.

The FCC passed a rule not too long ago to try to spur more cable boxes to be produced by electronic manufacturers. Separable Security rule required any company that makes cable boxes to have a cable card slot on them so customers who buy a box can then take them with them wherever they move. You know how many electronic manufacturers made cable boxes? The same companies that made boxes before the rule: Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Pace and TiVo.

Consumers and lawyers want to blame Comcast, Time Warner and other cable companies for not reselling boxes. The rules are in place to allow, say Sony, to make and sell cable boxes that can easily be used for any cable platform. Why does Sony, Panasonic, LG, Mitsubishi, etc. produce cable boxes? Maybe there really is no market for them, maybe they do not want to hire the support staff for customer service, or the cost to make the boxes are too high.

But here we are. Comcast certainly rules in place to allow boxes onto the network. The FCC has rules set up to oversee cable boxes with built in cables cards. But no one is rushing to produce them but Motorola, Scientific Atlanta and Pace who just sells the boxes to Comcast so they only have to deal with Comcast and not the general public. But it is easier to put the fault on Comcast for not selling the boxes they rent out. While we are at it, why not sue Hertz because they do not sell cars or USPS because they do not sell post office boxes. Consumers certainly cannot sue Sony because they do not want to make cable boxes, which Sony tried to do.

Say what you want, these lawsuits are a waste of time for our judicial system. Except for West Virgina because apparently there is nothing else better to do.