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story category Comcast Pays Florida $150K For Misleading Consumers
Case indicates company was booting the top 1,000 customers....
02:24PM Friday Sep 05 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · business · bandwidth · cable · networking · Comcast
Tipped by JTRockville See Profile
We've always known that Comcast has long had an invisible usage limit, because our users have been complaining about it for the better part of a decade. While Comcast says they're now simply clarifying this previously existing cap (by capping users at 250GB starting October 1) a Florida court case would seem to suggest otherwise. After being investigated by the State of Florida for booting users without making service limits clear, Comcast divulged that the company has actually been booting the top 1,000 users without regard to consumption total.
According to the settlement, "Pursuant to the AUP, as currently applied, each month the top 1,000 bandwidth users out of Comcast’s entire customer base of approximately 14.4 million subscribers (i.e., approximately .007% of subscribers) receive a direct, personal notification from Comcast by telephone that they are violating Comcast’s Acceptable Use Policy, because of their excessive use of bandwidth."
Florida AG Bill McCollum apparently didn't like that Comcast was booting their top 1,000 heaviest users without mentioning hard limits in their acceptable use policy, and without ever actually telling impacted customers precisely what constituted excessive use. After a lengthy investigation, last week Comcast was forced to come clean with customers and pay $150,000. They're also no longer able to advertise the product as unlimited, though they stopped doing so a few years back (see ad).

Why does this Florida case matter? Well, the FCC has been seen as the primary motivator for Comcast's sudden shift toward clarity, despite a clear record of being anything but consumer advocates. In reality, it was the Florida Attorney General who was busy lighting a fire under Comcast's digital derriere. You can also thank tough Florida consumer protection laws. Martin may have simply used the situation for political gain.

The Florida documentation also would seem to indicate that Comcast isn't being entirely honest about the new 250GB cap simply being a transparent version of an existing cap. Instead, the settlement shows there was no locked hard cap at all -- simply the targeting of the top 1,000 hungriest (.007%) of Comcast's 14.4 million subscribers. That would explain why some of our users were able to consume in excess of 400GB per month before getting in trouble. It also indicates that the new 250GB cap, while clear, may impact considerably more users than the old system.

The full settlement is here, and may make for interesting reading for those of you who've been tracking this story closely since we first started covering it back in 2003, when the first bandwidth glutton letters started appearing.

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Forums » Comcast Pays Florida $150K For Misleading Consumers
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Matt
You can't fix stupid
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Yep... business as usual

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
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inferno

join:2008-07-06

Re: Yep... business as usual

Comcast is a complete joke... Just upgrade your old CRAPPY equipment and let the customers use as much bandwidth as we want! UPGRADE YOUR OLD CRAPPY EQUIPMENT COMCAST AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE STUPID BANDWIDTH PROBLEMS!!

Also... comcast get rid of your entertainment sections, I see you are selling movies directly from your site. Start thinking about upgrading your old crappy system before you start making sites that sell movies... there are other better sources for that type of content... UPGRADE YOUR OLD CRAPPY EQUIPMENT COMCAST!!

splat1622

@direcpc.com

Re: Yep... business as usual

no they need to expand to new customers first before they add more speed and bandwidth to currant customer's.using more than 250 GB is completely ridiculous.they ought to just cut you off

all i get is 200mb a day if that's all you had you would appreciate the 250 cap

csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
·EarthLink

Re: Yep... business as usual

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!
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espaeth
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Re: Yep... business as usual

said by csiemers See Profile :

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!
Until you start using more than the break-even amount of bandwidth on shared infrastructure. Than my bill starts to go to subsidize your usage.

It's like welfare, only we subsidize the greedy instead of the needy.

csiemers

join:2000-09-16
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·EarthLink

Re: Yep... business as usual

Then it sounds like the company need to improve it's shared infrastructure.

Fortunately I'm with an ISP that doesn't cap.
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Rob
In Deo speramus
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·Comcast

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by csiemers See Profile :

Then it sounds like the company need to improve it's shared infrastructure.

Fortunately I'm with an ISP that doesn't cap.
This post made me chuckle. Is your ISP Earthlink?
elray

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Santa Monica, CA
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said by espaeth See Profile :

said by csiemers See Profile :

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!
Until you start using more than the break-even amount of bandwidth on shared infrastructure. Than my bill starts to go to subsidize your usage.

It's like welfare, only we subsidize the greedy instead of the needy.
Um, isn't that already standard practice at all cable companies?

I have to pay for your ESPN, even though I would never watch it, if I want to get any cable-tv channels at all.

Not that anyone "needs" cable TV or internet.

Matt
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Yep... business as usual

said by elray See Profile :

Not that anyone "needs" cable TV or internet.
Try telling that to me when I don't get my weekly Mythbusters fix.
--
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splat1622

@direcpc.com
well keep going over 250gb and you wont have too worry about it anymore,because you might lose it
Binary

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV
Damn Give me some of that 250GB cap.

My cap only goes 375MB a day

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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edit:
September 5th, @02:09PM

said by Matt See Profile :

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Beware of what you wish for - you may get it."
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hopeflicker
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edit:
September 5th, @02:12PM

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Be honest with your customers in the first place."
fixed for YOU
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL

Re: Yep... business as usual

Now come on Karl. You know that customers are just a necessary evil, to be handled like cattle.

This makes me proud to be a Florida taxpayer. Go get 'em Bill.

caddyroger
Premium
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Graham, WA

Re: Yep... business as usual

Guess who will be paying the fine.
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

Re: Yep... business as usual

Where there is sufficient competition, Comcast. If there is not sufficient competition, those citizens are hosed anyway.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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edit:
September 5th, @02:27PM

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.
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S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.
i disagree. I think the above average users were complaining because some were getting access stopped on their "unlimited" contract. While this is clearly a case of "be careful what you wish for", Comcrap was wrong for selling unlimited contracts to people when they had no plans for a truly "unlimited" access.
I also think that this is just an excuse to introduce metered billing. With applications changing and becoming bigger in size, this is the new business model for the telcos/cablecos.
Now maybe if we had a politician paying attention to this, maybe regulations can produce what "competition" clearly is not....a decent broadband policy!

NOZIREV

join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA

edit:
September 5th, @03:16PM

Re: Yep... business as usual

???

TK Junk Mail
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said by S_engineer See Profile :

Now maybe if we had a politician paying attention to this, maybe regulations can produce what "competition" clearly is not....a decent broadband policy!
The end result of what you are suggesting is not just regulation of TOS & transparency, but price controls. Because if that isn't part of the regulations, then the service providers will just raise prices to cover the costs of all the other regulations. And then the real whining to the politicians will commence.
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S_engineer

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Re: Yep... business as usual

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by S_engineer See Profile :

then the service providers will just raise prices to cover the costs of all the other regulations. And then the real whining to the politicians will commence.
This company will raise the rates anyway. Do you actually think it won't be the customers paying this fine ?
If unchecked, these abuses will continue and when caught, The AG might as well just fine the customer.

NOZIREV

join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA
what is a "a decent broadband policy!" in your eyes just curious since you seem to be a fairly intelligent human being? 25 TB's for 42.95$??
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S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by NOZIREV See Profile :

what is a "a decent broadband policy!" in your eyes just curious since you seem to be a fairly intelligent human being? 25 TB's for 42.95$??
there are ways to push the stagnation we're in. In addition, there are also ways to enforce the contracts the businesses have with their customers. My suggestion is not fines (because the consumer pays that), but go after licenses. It's not the consumers fault that Comcrap doesn't like the contract that they themselves wrote!
fiberguy
My views are my own.
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.. got a contract for us to read where you or anyone was guaranteed "unlimited broadband" for life?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

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edit:
September 5th, @03:38PM

It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap.
A strawman point and completely irrelevant. A significant number of customers, the Florida Attorney General and the FCC have proven Comcast was lying to customers, yet here you are, claiming whatever happens is those customers fault for .... what .... demanding honesty?

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
»www.metacafe.com/watch/879688/pe···_fright/

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
»www.metacafe.com/watch/879688/pe···_fright/
OMG!!! stop the press.
TK posts a link to copyrighted material!!

Ohhh the humanity
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viperlmw
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said by Karl Bode See Profile :

It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap.
A strawman point and completely irrelevant. A significant number of customers, the Florida Attorney General and the FCC have proven Comcast was lying to customers, yet here you are, claiming whatever happens is those customers fault for .... what .... demanding honesty?

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
Karl, you don't understand. You are being painted as 'elitist', by being a "well above average" user. It's the only way they can sell their goods, by fear. Fear of the elite. Fear of taxes. Fear of regulations. Fear of equality. Make the other guy scary. That's how decisions are made by some. 'I can't win by being right, I'll win with FEAR'

funchords
Robb Topolski
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said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.
Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone who has been kicked off of the service abused it.

It was the top 1,000 users of bandwidth. This list was from across the system, not just from nodes with trouble reports, or highly-congested segments, or from observed complaints from other systems to the abuse@comcast desk! The only thing that kind of system protects is Comcast's loss from such a consumer -- and that's perfectly fine, but it has to be disclosed.

There was nothing in the TOS that covered kicking off users for being one of the top 1,000 users of bandwidth. Comcast didn't even check if they interfered with or impacted anybody == so they can't use that excuse.
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espaeth
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Re: Yep... business as usual

said by funchords See Profile :

Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?
He was warned weeks before they cut him off, and he's clearly tapped into online news to have drawn a reasonable conclusion about what the caps were.

True, Comcast official comments to him about usage were vague, but he would have needed to have been living in a cave (which is contradictory to his tech-savvy persona) to have not seen enough data to reasonably estimate the caps.

IMO, this one is a stalemate.

funchords
Robb Topolski
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Re: Yep... business as usual

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by funchords See Profile :

Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?
He was warned weeks before they cut him off, [...]

IMO, this one is a stalemate.
I agree that a warning does help, but it doesn't color Dave Winer as an abuser.
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splat1622

@direcpc.com

from:
TK Junk Mail See Profile

Re: Yep... business as usual

if he was using over 250gb he was abusing it

JTRockville
Data Ho
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clubs:
No one I've seen ever demanded a cap. The plea was, that IF there is a cap, it shouldn't be super-secret.

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edit:
September 5th, @03:13PM

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more
No. You've got it wrong.

Read both the Comcast website and the Florida agreement and then you'll see that it's BOTH, not either/or.

The language in the Florida AG settlement document is
2. Comcast may continue to notify any residential high speed Internet service subscriber whose bandwidth usage use exceeds the Threshold (as determined by Comcast in its sole discretion) that the subscriber's service may be, or will be, terminated as the result of excessive use. However, no residential high speed Internet service subscriber shall be notified of a breach of Comcast's excessive use restrictions unless the subscriber's bandwidth usage exceeds the previously disclosed Threshold.
The "top users" language from the Comcast page:
This is the same system we have in place today. The only difference is that we will now provide a limit by which a customer may be contacted. As part of our pre-existing policy, we will continue to contact the top users of our high-speed Internet service and ask them to curb their usage. If a customer uses more than 250 GB and is one of the top users of our service, he or she may be contacted by Comcast to notify them of excessive use. At that time, we'll tell them exactly how much data per month they had used. We know from experience the vast majority of customers we ask to curb usage do so voluntarily.
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badtrip
East Bay
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·Comcast

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".
Although you are being somewhat sarcastic, that is truly what we will start seeing. I have no idea how much bandwidth my household uses but I can tell you its probably alot with 3 ppl , two who telecommute and a teenager.

If the company I work for treated it's customers with the same contempt that Comcast treats their customers, we'd be out of business fast. Lucky for Comcast they have a near monopoly and don't have to worry about "satisfied customers".
I pos rep

join:2008-08-22

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Beware of what you wish for - you may get it."
The cap is by far better than kicking people without giving an explanation of acceptable usage. Nobody told me when I signed up with Comcast I could not use 6 petabytes a day if I wanted. Therefore they should not even have the right to kick them off in the first place. I hate all these TOS that are vague and give the corporation unlimited rights. "We can boot you because we shoved a dick up our ass and feel like it" should not be allowed period. At least now the consumers actually know about the limits and can choose whether or not to support that company.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

edit:
September 5th, @01:53PM

Greed!

Capitalism breeds greed. People just dont like to admit it.

That's what happening within Comcast.

See 14 replies to this post

AFX

join:2008-07-31
North Wales, PA

comcrap

just florida!they been shoveling the bull for over 30yrs.
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9929
quatrix

join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL

Only 1,000?

They should boot at least the top 1%.
HeavyC

join:2004-03-31

Re: Only 1,000?

Then after you booth that top 1%, boot the top 1% again. Just rinse and repeat. They'll have a really easy to manage network before too long....there will be no traffic on it.

banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance

join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast

Re: Only 1,000?

said by HeavyC See Profile :

Then after you booth that top 1%, boot the top 1% again. Just rinse and repeat. They'll have a really easy to manage network before too long....there will be no traffic on it.
That's what I was thinking...at what point does the cull stop? If you keep skimming 1,000 off the top, eventually you'd think the top value would be lower than it was before. Unless each month a new 1,000 people appear and use just as much as the previous 1,000.
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Sith HMP
I Did What?
Premium
join:2004-04-25
Bloomington, IL

Clarity

I get it now. If they can afford to just throw away 1000 customers every month with out blinking an eye, I now understand why they could care less about fixing any of my service issues. Thanks a lot Insight for handing me over to these tools.
azjerry

join:2002-12-04
Phoenix, AZ

Interesting policy

Given enough time they would boot every last user.

equalrights2008

@cox.net

Re: Interesting policy

actually, they'll leave the ones that pay and use nothing, or check 2-3 emails a month and charge them 45 a month to use it. It is really that simple, the users that pay for a lot but use very little is their target demographics. Its like selling a all you can eat dinner, and hoping that people only fill their plates 1/3 full and never go back for seconds. THOSE are the ones they'll keep. Anyone to sits and eats "all he/she can eat" is the "top abusers" - funny how they label the top "unlimited users" for using "unlimited' as "abusers" isn't it?
DarkEnigma

join:2005-09-13
Beecher, IL

curius

would constant gaming lead up to 250gb worth of data transfer in a month,or also video streaming(youtube), online radios video steams, stuff like that

See 10 replies to this post

Dogfather
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And we're supposed to believe anything these ISPs say

Comcast lying, Bell Canada lying...and we're supposed to believe any claims coming from them.

This is evidence that nothing they say is to be believed and the burden of proof (eg that they're having capacity problems) is on them.

Everything they say must be assumed a lie.

See 7 replies to this post

jmn1207
Premium
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Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Florida Consumer Laws are Tough

Florida has very strict consumer protection laws in place. Many businesses have to keep separate terms and conditions for Florida, and another set that covers all of the other states. What are we at now, at least 20 states?