 
nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY | Verizon Wireless? Don't you mean Verizon core, not wireless? | |
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Dareius
Self proclaimed Premium member
join:2002-11-12
Elmhurst, NY | Re: Verizon Wireless? *chuckle* I was saying the same thing when I read that. Guess the writer has Verizon Wireless on the brain. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Verizon Wireless? Hopefully Verizon Wireless ditched its AMPS analog service back in Feb.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud
edit:
June 19th, @12:44PM
| Even less excuse to cap SDV, ditching analog, DOCSIS 3; dedicate that saved bandwidth to more HSI channels and they wouldn't need to cap plus ramp up speeds to end users even higher (thanks to bonding). | |
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| Don Slade
join:2002-05-02
El Paso, TX
| Re: Even less excuse to cap I saw this coming. And I doubt that the providers will be 'giving' any new hardware for free. They will drive all subscribers to digital set top boxes and charge for those even though they are required to receive programming.
I understand the benefits of an all-digital system, but the current ads I see on TW telling the current analog customer that nothing will change when digital starts are misleading, or will apply for a very short time. | |
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jj26
@comcast.net | Re: Even less excuse to cap direct and dish witch are all digital charge for extra boxes to. all provider include one cable box in the package. | |
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| | | cableguy619
join:2003-06-24
Chula Vista, CA | The Cable Co's offer the same digital channels and more. Remember the telco's and dish do not have majority of the locals... | |
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hamburglar_
join:2002-04-29
Columbus, OH | Re: Even less excuse to cap TW has had the first 70 or so channels in the basic expanded package unscrambled here for over 10 years. Guess it depends on the market. That will of course change in a couple years. | |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud | Re: Even less excuse to cap In my market, TWC got the cable system as part of that trade deal with Comcast. Comcast had scrambled it shortly after buying it from ATTB. | |
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| | | travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Albuquerque, NM
| said by Skeedatl  :Yeah, if Time Warner was to ditch analog transmission over their network, their customers would need a basic converter. Not necessarily. Most modern TVs have digital QAM tuners and will tune unencrypted digital channels with no problem. I was watching all sorts of digital channels on a Comcast system that I only subscribed to the basic analog tier on.
The issue is when the channels are encrypted - then you need a cable card or box. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
edit:
June 19th, @09:09PM
| You'd have to be blind NOT to see it coming as it's been in plain sight for .. oh, I dunno... ever?
But it's amazing you saw this coming but you don't know much about the dongle that is being developed now. The dongle, which should retail for about $20 (So, yes, they won't give anything away) will allow a limited amount of channels to be tuned in analog with out a need for the actually set top tuner.
But, your assertion that the move to drive people into renting boxes is about as old as the fact that consumers can actually purchase their own converters or cable card ready sets. while choices may currently be limited, they still exist.
I say let the digital transition happen, it's time to evolve. Cable TV, in my opinion, still remains a luxury. The fact that people want to hook up room after room after room is one of those things that defines those who have from those who have not. (Yea.. painful to hear, I know, but I'm one that doesn't believe everyone is equal when it comes to finances) When cable first came out, and the model was set, families actually sat down and watched TV. Most people never had TV in the bedroom, much less each and everyone. People have long got a break on being able to hook up each TV without fee's.. and to be honest, I'm not worried about that. BUT, as things move forward and we evolve to the next generation systems, so comes the price. People are going to have to buck up and pay for what they get. The old saying of "Well, I've always gotten it for free" isn't something that means anything - times change. Yea, I admit my views are harsh, but I stand behind them and believe that people have to make choices. Having 5 TVs hooked up are simply going to cost people, to some degree, OR they are going to have to made choices that best fit their needs.
On a side topic, I can see that the need to rush to the separable security was as important as ever... we're damn near 1 year past the mandate and the suppliers / manufacturers are just cramming the retail shelves with 'em. The consumer has benefited leaps and bounds in the first year. /sarcasm | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Skeedatl :SDV, ditching analog, DOCSIS 3; dedicate that saved bandwidth to more HSI channels and they wouldn't need to cap plus ramp up speeds to end users even higher (thanks to bonding). Oh the bandwidth is there, its just another way to milk the cash cow!
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
| Re: Even less excuse to cap You're right
docsis uses 4 chaneel for 171mbit, 121mbit
or 8 channel 322mbit/121mbit
insane speed... you are right
these guy are getting more geedy all the time
always saying limited bandwidth and playing user for any slowdown... deceptive, shady, misleading. | |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud
edit:
June 19th, @10:59PM
| Shhhhhh, you'll upset the cable shills kissasses advocates. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Per box fees As long as they are charging per box, the government needs to stop this. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Per box fees Why?
Buy one of your own and they won't charge you.... why should you get them for free? Why does the invasive government need to come in and regulate a luxury? You get cable on one line, if you want more, you should pay more to outfit them either in equipment rental OR purchase. The government already protects your basic viewing up to about channel 30.
For the longest time, in case most people forget, "basic cable" (about 70 channels) used to be scrambled and required a box as well. Why weren't boxes free back then too? | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Per box fees I've never seen basic cable scrambled. Basic cable has always been set up to allow you to hook up as many tvs as you wanted. To allow cable companies the ability to drop that benefit while charging the same or in most, if not all cases more is insane. And how does one buy their own digital cable box that works with the cable companies encryption? | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Per box fees said by insomniac84 :I've never seen basic cable scrambled. Basic cable has always been set up to allow you to hook up as many tvs as you wanted. This may be true in what you've experienced, which is what you said by "I've never seen..." still, that leaves it open ended for you to take either out when confronted. However, analog cable boxes have been used by many systems across the US to do exactly what I said.
To allow cable companies the ability to drop that benefit while charging the same or in most, if not all cases more is insane. This is to assume that it's anyone's right to allow or disallow. Currently, the only tier that must be in the clear are the locals and pegs. I think it's safer to say that it could be in their interest to keep them in the clear to save that niche customer base, however, it's well with in their rights to run their system the way they want. I am one that wants more HD and better ADVANCE service, so I say "away with the dinosaurs and evolve"..
And how does one buy their own digital cable box that works with the cable companies encryption? Look up separable security and your answer you shall have. Mostly right now, it's Tivo boxes. However, there is, and has been, one model of Motorola DCT that you can buy and have activated. (It's the Motorola home theater receiver) | |
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Cable Me Not
@verizon.net
| said by fiberguy :Why? Buy one of your own and they won't charge you.... why should you get them for free? Why does the invasive government need to come in and regulate a luxury? You get cable on one line, if you want more, you should pay more to outfit them either in equipment rental OR purchase. The government already protects your basic viewing up to about channel 30. For the longest time, in case most people forget, "basic cable" (about 70 channels) used to be scrambled and required a box as well. Why weren't boxes free back then too? The government needs only to regulate when there is no competition to prevent gouging. And in the case of Pay-TV, there are no competitors, for most of us. Further, while the CableCard standard has been available for years, to allow consumers to purchase their own hardware, the cable industry has done everything possible to thwart its adoption on their networks; box "rental" fees are just too lucrative. | |
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| | carolx79
join:2007-05-04
Frankfort, IN | HA! Cable a luxury? Ok. only because you have to pay for it | |
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dervari
join:2000-01-17
Atlanta, GA
clubs: | Basic tiers going away? So what about people who are on their "basic" 15 channel tier just to get locals. How is it going to affect that if it's mandated by their franchise agreement? | |
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| hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Basic tiers going away? they will offer tiers. You'll just need a digital box to get them. Many cable companies had boxes back a long time ago. Analog HBO anyone? | |
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AZ_OGM
join:2007-01-12
Phoenix, AZ
edit:
June 19th, @01:47PM
| Re: Basic tiers going away? said by hottboiinnc :Analog HBO anyone? I remember those boxes. Tune your TV to channel 3 or 4 and turn the dial and viola, HBO or Showtime was there. I remember having a Showtime box back in the early 80s and removing the front panel and placing an alligator clip on a tip and getting HBO on channel 3 and Showtime on channel 4. Of course the cable company got wind of this and started riveting on the faceplates.  | |
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David_
La vida es bella
join:2001-01-28
chile | Re: Basic tiers going away? That`s gotta be the first "hacked" electronic system ever!  | |
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cousintim
join:2004-10-10
Dallas, TX
| said by hottboiinnc :Many cable companies had boxes back a long time ago. Analog HBO anyone? Many early cable systems offered analog channels and no box. Analog boxes were added later to compensate for past-generation TVs that had channel limitations. As TV tuners were expanded up to channel 125, the original need for analog boxes was eliminated.
In many systems, analog HBO and other premium channels then were delivered directly to cable-ready TVs. Line filters, or "traps," were used to limit access to authorized, paying customers. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Basic tiers going away? You are partially correct. However, analog boxes were also addressable with security capabilities. MANY systems used them as a way to protect the security of the system and offer tiers.
MOST all systems that use the trap model send the signal in the clear (analog) which makes stealing easier. Trapping the signals only worked, mostly, on legal hookups. Remove the trap, get the channels. The analog box was put in place as cable companies scrambled the 2nd tier. The box was the enforcer and it worked well.
Having a good portion of my time as "cable cop" in my systems, I know this policy very well.
In the end, it primarily depended, traps, on if systems wanted to deal with rolling trucks to mess with passive traps, or use the active cable box which gave greater control of the system. | |
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PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Merrimack, NH
| said by dervari :So what about people who are on their "basic" 15 channel tier just to get locals. How is it going to affect that if it's mandated by their franchise agreement? It's my understanding the "broadcast basic" tier is going to remain analog.
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| Re: Basic tiers going away? I would think so. In MI comcast tried to digitize the local programming/access channels for municipalities. They quickly got smacked down by the government.
So I don't think they will be able to force digital on anyone. But for "pay" channels I am sure they can.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
 ·TDS
| What franchise agreements? Comcast, along with AT&T is pushing hard to get rid-of-em. Most customers in Michigan no longer have the PEG channels in analog, and must pay for a STB now. There is a case in the courts to bring it back the way it was, however... | |
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jj26
@comcast.net | the basic channels will stay anolog 2-34 depending on where you live. channel about 34 will go all digital | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
| so sad Yay color shifting, pixellation, macro-block ugliness, horrid screeching audio glitches, and annoyances associated with conversion.
Hopefully the conversion to this will be easy for people who don't want another ugly, slow, clunky converter box eating up space, space on a power strip, and electricity.
Those little "dongle" type converters any good? Any word on how this will actually work for people who have an old tube set with an analog tuner? | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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Quattrohead
join:2005-02-09
edit:
June 19th, @01:12PM
| Free digi boxes ? Will Comcast require users to rent digital boxes ?
If you have their totally basic service and HSI, but use satellite, will you have to rent digital boxes or are they going to give them to the customer ? | |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI | Re: Free digi boxes ? Current package is they offer (1) standard STB for free for 12 months. $5/month/box after that. | |
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| | Da Man
join:2008-05-08
Hanover, PA | Re: Free digi boxes ? If Comcast wants to use that cheap dongle they'll have to unencrypt the channels. | |
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| | | lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA | Re: Free digi boxes ? Well, decoding a digital signal isn't all that hard. Just get a PROM chip, some solder, and a few coax female connectors, and you could piece together a POS decoder pretty easily. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Da Man :If Comcast wants to use that cheap dongle they'll have to unencrypt the channels. Try again. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
·Comcast
| Bye bye Comcast Screw that...
I'm currently getting along great with analog and clear QAM tuners. If I'm forced to use a converter, it is going to be a real PITA. At this point, I'll cancel my Comcast service and install Satellite. I'll probably also ditch HSI and switch to FiOS. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| time to ditch TV I have with Charter what they call their "mini-basic" tier which is just the broadcast channels + PEG + CSPAN. They do away with that and it's bye bye cable for me. I have my computer wired into my TV and already much of what I watch is done that way. Just saw today that The Daily Show and Jon Stewart are now available on hulu.com. Screw the cable companies the value of what they offer in their "extended basic" package ain't worth the $60 plus a month they charge. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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who cares
@swbell.net | Comcast Joins Others In Ditching Analog Comcast...less talk (and ads), more action...just do it... | |
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cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
| as long as it is 'clear QAM' i'm fine with the move i don't want to have to rent a cable box just for basic service. i wouldn't understand the need to encrypt the 'basic' and 'basic cable' channels (the equivalent to a standard analog service of ~60 channels) when filters have worked for years. i suppose it is more convient just to send an update to the box than to dispatch someone to change some filters. i'm looking forward to having a mythtv box with tuners capable of ntsc, atsc, and clear qam, i just hope that the cable companies don't make it mostly useless.
i also like how comcast is using the 2009 digital tv switch to reel in the few people that still use the airwaves for TV access by claiming that 'comcast tv is your easiest solution'. it could be the easiest in some cases, but definitely not the cheapest at ~$50/month vs. a one time fee of ~$60 (not including the rebate) for a converter box. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: as long as it is 'clear QAM' i'm fine with the move said by cornelius785 :i also like how comcast is using the 2009 digital tv switch to reel in the few people that still use the airwaves for TV access... I think you should look at the nations total households using OTA signals and rethink that statement. | |
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Cable Me Not
@verizon.net
| Re: as long as it is 'clear QAM' i'm fine with the move said by fiberguy :said by cornelius785 :i also like how comcast is using the 2009 digital tv switch to reel in the few people that still use the airwaves for TV access... I think you should look at the nations total households using OTA signals and rethink that statement. Indeed. Among my male peers, not one has pay-TV. Among my family, no one. Of everyone I know personally, most choose to have "no service" or "no TV" because the content is so poor, and they can't justify paying $80-100 for one channel. Netflix, the library, and rabbit ears abound.
There is no exact census, but surveys suggest there are between 12 and 20 million OTA households. That's a big chunk. | |
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disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| FCC regs? quote:
In compliance with the FCC regulations regarding the analog-to-digital switch, Comcast and others will still need to be giving out digital adapters to analog customers ...
Are there FCC regs on this? My sense is that the FCC is giving them free reign. So any pricing on digital adapters and any decisions on whether basic tier channels (re-broadcasted local channels) are kept analog or digital is up to the good will of the cableco making the switch. | |
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| reelbigfish
join:2002-06-06
Boston, MA | Re: FCC regs? Comcast Chicago is already all digital, so it doesn't look like there are many issues keeping them from going all digital already. | |
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| | bennor
join:2006-07-22
New Haven, CT
| Re: FCC regs? said by reelbigfish :Comcast Chicago is already all digital, so it doesn't look like there are many issues keeping them from going all digital already. But what channels do you get unencrypted? That's what most (including myself) are wondering. Going all digital is fine but give us subscribers with digital or analog TV's a way to receive the basic channels we get now without resorting to renting another STB. Right now I get 50 QAM channels however most are in both SD and HD via QAM so in actuality I only get 15 to 20 actual channels on QAM versus 77 on analog. | |
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RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
·Optimum Online
| Re: FCC regs? said by bennor :Going all digital is fine but give us subscribers with digital or analog TV's a way to receive the basic channels we get now without resorting to renting another STB. The move to digital has cable companies migrating away from the use of line traps and the subsequent truck rolls that go with them. Encryption is the only way to ensure someone in a package only gets what they pay for, otherwise basic customers could receive family programming for free just because those channels were in the clear. That issue is already being addressed by the use of CableCARDS -- so either get a TivoHD or a TV with a CableCARD slot. | |
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| Qixotl
join:2002-02-08
New Milford, CT
| The FCC regulations are as follows:
quote:
DUAL MUST-CARRY: The FCC Rules
Under the FCC’s report and order, cable operators will be required from Feb. 18, 2009, to Feb. 17, 2012, to:
-Carry a local broadcaster’s digital signal in analog and digital formats; or,
-Carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the “necessary equipment” (digital set-top boxes) to view the broadcast content.
-Carry the high-definition signal of broadcasters in high-definition format.
SOURCE: FCC
»www.multichannel.com/article/CA6478706.html | |
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Aveamantium
Formerly Reiper
join:2006-10-02
Loveland, CO
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: FCC regs? Keep in mind that even the new TVs will require a set top box if Comcast decides to not broadcast their digital "in the clear". You can go out and get a Digital Cable Ready TV (cable card slot) but good luck with that since it seems as if Cable Card is not doing well. Now it sounds like most cable co's are going to go with DTA converter boxes.
Consequently, for the HDTV in your living room the digital transition can be a good thing. However, for the other TVs around the house the analog to digital transition is going to be painful for a lot of people. Comcast needs to stop advertising that "we have nothing to worry about"!! | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Is there a corresponding reduction in price? Or are they taking away all these channels but still charging the same price as when they provided them? | |
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| b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | Re: Is there a corresponding reduction in price? Reduction? Are you serious?
Everyone (at least at Comcast) knows digital cost way more to transmit.
Them bit's aint' free ya' know! | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: Is there a corresponding reduction in price? Yes, I'm serious. If analog packages have reduced channels, the price should be reduced.
Why should analog subscribers subsidize digital subscribers? | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Is there a corresponding reduction in price? You don't buy cable by the method of transport/the signal transmission, you buy the tiers. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by JTRockville :Or are they taking away all these channels but still charging the same price as when they provided them? Number one rule of cable: CABLE BILLS ONLY GO ONE WAY and its not down.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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goofy01
join:2004-02-05
Hammond, IN | Chicago Comcast My parents had basic analog cable at the time of Comcast's change over. Comcast provided them with one converter free of charge. As far as I know, no channels are now in the clear on analog or digital. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Woooohooooooooooo Comcast must be creaming its jeans in anticipation of turning all those with only expanded basic into set top renters!
time to double the size of the CxO's yachts!
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
·Optimum Online
| Dont have to give away a thing quote:
In compliance with the FCC regulations regarding the analog-to-digital switch, Comcast and others will still need to be giving out digital adapters to analog customers but customers
The author implies that the cable company is required to give out these adapters at no charge, or that it can be tied in with the $40 coupons for digital boxes.
The cable company is required to give out the adpaters (that much is logical, otherwise nobody on that tier would receive any channels with a digital QAM set) -- but the rates charged for said adapters is set entirely by the cable company. And the $40 coupons apply only to OTA boxes, not cable. | |
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Moon1234
@charter.com
| Re: Dont have to give away a thing I am so sick of people putting up "news" when they have absolutly no clue what is going on. There IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR ANY CABLE COMPANY TO GO DIGITAL AT ANY TIME. The digital transition is for OVER THE AIR ONLY!!!!!
Again there IS NO REGULATION REQUIRING ANY DIGITAL |
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Comcast Joins Others In Ditching Analog
·
Digital