Charter NebuAD Trials DelayedDespite Congressional pressure, Charter says delays 'technical' 10:18AM Wednesday Jun 18 2008 by Karl Bodetags: legal · business · privacy · Charter PipelineLast month, the ranking members of the House Telecommunications Subcommittee, Edward Markey (D-MA) and Joe Barton (R-TX), sent a letter to Charter CEO Neil Smit. That letter took issue with Charter's decision to sell user browsing history to NebuAD in order to deliver tailored ads (a "service" Charter claims is as good as delivering faster speeds). The letter asked Charter to put a hold on the project since it's not clear it's even legal. The shoddy opt-out process used by NebuAD uses cookies and opts users out of tailored ads, but not online tracking. Therefore it could run afoul of several laws, including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 (ECPA); the Communications Act of 1934; and the Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984. Earlier this month a group of fifteen consumer advocacy organizations sent a letter (pdf) supporting a Congressional investigation into such systems. Charter was originally supposed to begin testing the new system this week, but has delayed the trials, according to Online Media Daily. However, the company claims the delays were not caused by the Congressional inquiry and are instead technical in nature; a spokesman saying the tests "will happen when we're technologically ready." An insider at another ISP informs me that NebuAD is working on an IP address-based opt-out system that could potentially run afoul of fewer laws. Facing Congressional inquiries and a potential investigation into behavioral advertising, I'd imagine that Charter is attempting to make sure that all of their legal ducks are in a row before proceeding. They could be waiting on this revamped opt-out system. Interested readers may want to check out my interview with NebuAD CEO Bob Dykes, as well as my discussion with ISP employees who aren't thrilled with their companies' use of the technology.
Related:- Consumer Groups Want Charter, NebuAD Investigated
- Charter User Monitoring Plans Suspended
- Embarq: Selling User Browsing Data 'Empowers' Users
- Embarq Offers More Data On NebuAD Trial
- ISPs Used Mouseprint Alerts For NebuAD Trials
- Charter Employee Data Stolen
- EFF To Sue Government For Warrantless Wiretapping
- AT&T Thanks Democrats For Telecom Immunity
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sMoKeNiNja
join:2001-09-10
Wheaton, IL
clubs:  | well well if they do roll this out I really hope some person or group challenges this. and that could set some precedents. | |
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miscnick
@verizon.net
| For how many years For how many years have some of the posters here been stating that cookies are harmless and not a security issue ?
I've read it time and time again....yes, on this site.
Mmmmm cookies = nebuad  | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: For how many years Cookies are never intrinsically a problem. They can be a part of a mechanism that erodes privacy, when used to track users from site to site.
But in connection with Nebuad (or Phorm or similar systems), the problem is not that these data-mining operations use cookies. Instead the problem is that a cookie is an inadequate means of letting people opt out.
The cookie method is inadequate because (a) the user has to make a change in his own security policy if he doesn't normally accept cookies (b) those who don't keep persistent cookies have to opt out all over again every time (c) cookies are only per user, not for a whole computer or LAN (d) the opt-out is only for the ads, and does not prevent the user's data being intercepted. | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs: | SpyOnuAD I hope the 'delay' is permanent. This 'spying' is a bad thing for the internet in general.
What I, as a web publisher, want to really know is how / where these ads are displayed. | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: SpyOnuAD said by pokesph  :What I, as a web publisher, want to really know is how / where these ads are displayed. These ads are generated and displayed in the same way that current online ads are now. The only difference is that they are theoretically more targeted that the current generation of ads, so the advertisers will pay Nebuad more money for placement.
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: SpyOnuAD said by wifi4milez :said by pokesph :What I, as a web publisher, want to really know is how / where these ads are displayed. These ads are generated and displayed in the same way that current online ads are now. The only difference is that they are theoretically more targeted that the current generation of ads, so the advertisers will pay Nebuad more money for placement. and that STILL says nothing about how/where these ads are shown.. i.e. are they stealing my ad space (my ad revenue generation) and replacing my hard earned ad placements with their own? Modifying my COPYRIGHTED page content (and code) to display something I've not approved on MY domains? What? | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: SpyOnuAD said by pokesph :said by wifi4milez :said by pokesph :What I, as a web publisher, want to really know is how / where these ads are displayed. These ads are generated and displayed in the same way that current online ads are now. The only difference is that they are theoretically more targeted that the current generation of ads, so the advertisers will pay Nebuad more money for placement. and that STILL says nothing about how/where these ads are shown.. i.e. are they stealing my ad space (my ad revenue generation) and replacing my hard earned ad placements with their own? Modifying my COPYRIGHTED page content (and code) to display something I've not approved on MY domains? What? Calm down man, dont drink the DSLR cool aid so fast! This works exactly like a traditional ad network, with the exception of the ads being (theoretically) more targeted. Check out their website for more details.
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
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jarablue
Always be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Worcester, MA | Re: SpyOnuAD You actually think this magic cookie is the system? Deeper packet inspection is being done.
You should try not drinking the kool aid so fast yourself. | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: SpyOnuAD said by jarablue :You actually think this magic cookie is the system? Deeper packet inspection is being done. You should try not drinking the kool aid so fast yourself. When did I ever say anything about a "magic cookie"? All I said was that the end user will not notice anything different than before, unless of course they pay attention to the ads being displayed. Assuming Nebuad doesnt do anything malicious/unethical with the data, people are making this big deal for no reason. They claim the data does not allow any identifiable information to be saved or passed along, and until someone can prove otherwise this is much ado about nothing.
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
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jarablue
Always be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Worcester, MA
| Re: SpyOnuAD So the traffic that supposedly isn't identifiable, must not adhere to TCP segments. The data that they are inspecting is "magic data", it comes from no where land and they can't see anything in it.
Believe what you want but 1. This is Charter 2. This is Charter. 3. It's a joke and people with half a brain would see that Nebu could see anything they wanted in the streams. And again this is Charter, they would sell us out as soon as someone offered to buy the "I'm" in out. I'm against it 100%. | |
| Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| IP- based opt-out? I'm confused, then. Isn't it NebuAD that is claiming they don't know anything about the customer? That it's all hashed and inivisible to them?
All bogus claims of course since you MUST know IP to target any kind of ads. Regardless, how can they say on the one hand we don't know your IP and then say they are developing an IP-based opt-out process? | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: IP- based opt-out? On closer inspection the claim is that only the machine knows the IP, and only temporarily to serve the ad, and doesn't record data that would link the real person to the browsing history.
So in other words, the system has the capability to assemble, store and sell a complete, personally-identified history of everything the user does online - but the companies promise not to use it that way. Yes, it's totally bogus.
The IP-based opt-out comes close to being an OK solution. Yes, they have to know what IP each customer is on to honor the opt-out, but if it really exempts the user from the data-interception (not just the ads) then it won't get associated with a browsing history.
Of course, opt-in would be the correct solution. The crucial thing is the ISP's customers being able to avoid the spying on their internet activity (letting them opt out of targeted ads is only a trivial diversionary tactic). | |
| envision
join:2007-10-30
| even ip opt out isnt the answer most ISP's who use the DHCP connection have timed leases on their ip's. So if you opt out then the power goes out or your modems off longer then the lease time, guess what, your gonna pull a new ip. thus you'll have to opt out all over again.
Opt in is the only way to go, other then not doing it at all. and it needs to be extremely clear, explain it to a first grader clear, what the process is, what it entails, what they can expect. | |
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vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Worcester, MA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: even ip opt out isnt the answer said by envision :your gonna pull a new ip. You MIGHT get a new IP address. It never worked when I had Comcast, even after doing an address release and the modem powered off for a week which was days longer than the lease expiration time. | |
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Iminaquandry
@charter.com
| Charter customer in Fort Worth
The error message I got this morning. |
1. I can no longer play Second Life even though my computer was handling it just fine for six months prior to this week.
2. Multimedia doesn't always work (i.e. Frontline online at PBS)
3. There's an aggravating delay when I try to log in to my Gmail account. Sometimes I can only use html version only.
Is it possible that Charter is already testing things in-house? Their statement said that they're not going to turn over data to Nebuad, but that's not the same as saying no monitoring whatsoever.
I feel like I don't have a right to privacy any more. We always knew the possibility of spying exited, but it was easier to dismiss before. Now I think about it every time I sit down at my computer. | |
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