 |  | MOTO6809
join:2007-11-05
Springfield, MA
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by DaveNJ  :What bother me, is that the cable industry released CC1(single mode) cards. Then they introduce SDV, making recently purchased items nonfunctional. Could imagine if Sun or Microsoft did something like that ? Yet there is no available Tv's DVRs, or anything that is available to work with SDV. So you are forced to use the Cableco boxes, and yet they claim there is competition in the hardware market. Yeah, but how many cable card tv's/tivo's have a modulator in them to send a 2way signal back to the headend? My understanding is that even with a 2way cc card you still need to modulate the signal back to the headend. | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Well? I hate to say this, but this is what happens when the "market" wants to put it's hand into someone else's industry and make a buck. This forces cable operators to stay stagnant in older technology while other providers continue to advance.
The only fools in this epic saga are those consumers that bought into the cable card technology and adopted early. There are very few tivo and cable card TVs in the market to this day. I'm certainly not one that would support holding up millions of consumers for a handful of those that have something about to go by the way of the stone wheel.
People may not like having to have the cable company boxes, but the fact remains, it's THEIR network and you've got to have something that will work with it. Renting boxes has been a success for the fact that if Cable upgrades the system, cable will update the equipment in the home too.
How many docsis 1.0 modems are now door stops? how many 56k modems have been tossed aside? How many 8086 computers are in landfills polluting the environment now? I think the whole notion of forcing an open architecture on cable was a mistake at this time. Satellite has gone to a lease/rental model while cable is forced to go away from it. Verizon and AT&T is allowed to have proprietary equipment, while cable is forced to open up.. something just smells funny.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
| | | 
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Patriot Media
 ·Cingular Wireless
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by fiberguy :People may not like having to have the cable company boxes, but the fact remains, it's THEIR network and you've got to have something that will work with it. Renting boxes has been a success for the fact that if Cable upgrades the system, cable will update the equipment in the home too. Verizon and AT&T is allowed to have proprietary equipment, while cable is forced to open up.. something just smells funny. Its THEIR network is so far off, its not even funny. 1996 communications act heard of it ? Second releasing something that cannot be upgraded, shows how much the cable industry loves it customers. Oh Verizon, they dont need switched video, so CC1 sets will continue to work. Verizon will catch up next year. I do agree UVerse should have to comply as well. So if you consider it might be cheaper to go with Verizon then rent a box from cable. Since they release a protocol which they know at once point would be incapable. Gee i used an analog tv for 30 years. Yet the cable industry cant make a simple protocol that will last more the 4.
--
Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
-Albert Einstein
| |
| | | | 
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead CableCARDs are 2-way capable. The DCR spec released by the FCC due to the demands of the CEA, who wanted to lower manufacturing costs by not mandating transmitters be included in equipment which are required for 2-way communication, are what really crippled the equipment, not the cable companies.
Current CableCARD cable boxes are 2-way capable because they followed the full CableCARD spec, instead of the crippled DCR spec.
--
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...
| |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| I've head of the 1996 communications act - and have read it many times.. have you? 
Please.. tell me where is says that the network isn't theirs.. Last time I checked, in this free market country, they build it, they own it. The system is the property of the provider...
Feeling stupid now?
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
| | | | |
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by fiberguy :I've head of the 1996 communications act - and have read it many times.. have you? Please.. tell me where is says that the network isn't theirs.. Last time I checked, in this free market country, they build it, they own it. The system is the property of the provider... Feeling stupid now? No , but from our brief discussion, i learned a few things. Verizon will still be compable with my CC1 equipement. Cable will not. Hmm which one should i choose now ?
--
Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
-Albert Einstein
| |
| | | | | |
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
edit:
November 21st, @02:26PM
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by DaveNJ :Verizon will still be compable with my CC1 equipement. Cable will not. Depends on the CableCARD equipment... to be compatible in the future with Verizon, or most cable, your CableCARD equipment WILL HAVE to be upgraded with a way to talk back to the headend for channel selection. Whether the distribution is through SDV or IPTV the box has to have 2-way capability.
P.S. There is no such thing as a 1-way CableCARD. | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You REALLY think that Verizon is going to keep your CC1 equipment in play for ever either? You REALLY think that ANY provider is going to think of a small group and not move forward?
You should chose what works best for you, however, the early adopter, in this case, doesn't get the worm.. they usually get the shaft.
NEVER early adopt in technology as you will usually ALWAYS get shafted.
Good luck! At least you know you can still get equipment to hook up to your television.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
| | | | | | |
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by fiberguy :You REALLY think that Verizon is going to keep your CC1 equipment in play for ever either? You REALLY think that ANY provider is going to think of a small group and not move forward? You should chose what works best for you, however, the early adopter, in this case, doesn't get the worm.. they usually get the shaft. NEVER early adopt in technology as you will usually ALWAYS get shafted. Good luck! At least you know you can still get equipment to hook up to your television. Considering CC2, has backward capability with v1 yes, and the fact Verizon doesn't need sdv. Yes. Verizon has to do cablecard, it just doesnt have to the integration ban. I would hardly call Cablecard early adoption, its been available since 2001. Face it cable made a mistake, and is dragging that mistake for as long as it can. The OCAP requirement is going to ruin cable, and make for alot of angry customers.
--
Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
-Albert Einstein
| |
| | | | | | | |
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| Re: Cablecard v1 sets go dead said by DaveNJ :Face it cable made a mistake, and is dragging that mistake for as long as it can. The OCAP requirement is going to ruin cable, and make for alot of angry customers. How did cable make a mistake? and how is OCAP going to ruin cable? | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! This technology sounds really interesting but the article I read said operators need to be very careful how they over allocate "standard channels". Standard channels being those that are part of the basic or expanded tiers for which everyone pays even if they don't watch them.
Unlike VOD, where you don't pay if the system cannot find the bandwidth to stream the content, when the plant runs out of bandwidth to deliver standard channel, subscribers are going to get steamed.
It seems that all this fuss is for the coax portion of the HFC. I would guess that the fiber portion has plenty of bandwidth for all the HD channels and packet bandwidth we could ever need or want. Rather than invest in exotic switching games, why not use the investment to push fiber deeper into the coax plant? If AT&T is trying to deliver U-Verse over a mile of POTS copper, surely the bandwidth available in a mile of conditioned, tuned and amplified coax blows that away and more than compensates for the shared architecture. | |
| | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN | Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! wrong you can never have enough bandwidth
as for fiber even it is being pushed in some ares to its limts
with this technology we could easily see around 3 too 5 times the number of channels even over fiber | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! Pushed to its limits? Care to share? | |
| | | | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! well you can only send a certain number of chanels over fiber
heck i have around 500 channels in my area and i would gladly pay more to get more channels
theres a limit to how many channels you can send though fiber
however with sdv
you can in theory see 200 plus megabit internet connections as common as 5 or 10 is now
maybe 2000 tv channels maybe more | |
| | | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! I don't understand why 500 channels is the limit. Did they bury one strand? Is fiber no more capable than coax?
Right now I have ~200 channels arriving to my house over coax that is not using SDV. Add to that the fact that ~75 of those channels are double-transmitted (once in digital and once in analog). I've read that several digital channels (if not more) can be transmitted using the bandwidth of one analog channel. If true, 75 x 3 = 219. 200 + 219 = 419. My coax system also has VOD, HSI and Phone service.
I'm not great at math but somewhere in my second paragraph I'll bet there is at least the capacity to carry 500 digital channels. If I had fiber all the way to my door, there would be no improvement?
If this is true then I don't understand all the fuss about fiber. It's not limitless but when compared to copper or coax, I thought it was practically unlimited. | |
| | | | | |
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
edit:
November 21st, @02:35PM
| Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! said by rradina
I'll bet there is at least the capacity to carry 500 digital channels. If I had fiber all the way to my door, there would be no improvement?
If this is true then I don't understand all the fuss about fiber. It's not limitless but when compared to copper or coax, I thought it was practically unlimited.
Fiber has lots of bandwith, but the cable boxes only have 860 Mhz tuners. 860 Mhz = 136 channels "slots", digital compression allows that 136 "slots" to have more viewable channels.
In reality that 860 Mhz signal over coax equals about 5 gbps bandwidth, but industry standard method of using that bandwidth limits the number of channels able to be carried on it.
To get around that cable box tuner limitation means either new cable boxes (with higher rated tuners or fiber inputs) or a different method (SDV or IPTV) to put the content on the channels. | |
| | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
November 21st, @12:38PM
| your most likely on fiber right now
as for bandwidth 1 gigahertz fiber is equal to about 166 analog channels each analog channel is equil to about 10 digital channels or 1660 or around 2 to 3 hd channels 500 hd channels
as for internet and phone they use almost no bandwith
12 megherts for phone to around hundreds of phones both ways
internet is less 8 megahertz
if you were on pure coax you'd have tops 74 analog channels no internet or phone ether
as for the double transmitted that not entirely true its analog even if you have a digital cable box since they don't wanna waste bandwidth transmitting same channel twice
i have 500 channels 78 analog 400 digital and phone/internet | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Great! Now they can oversubscribe VIDEO! Regarding fiber -- I'm sure fiber is in the network but I still have good ole coax coming to my house. The pedestal in my back yard is also still coax. I don't know where it goes to fiber but that's not the point. The point is, they are able to deliver a lot of service over "last mile" coax. If they spent their money pushing fiber even deeper (like the telco FTTH plans), wouldn't this make more sense than a voodoo SDV oversubscribing scheme?
Eventually this is where everything will probably go but the cable company doesn't want a la carte programming and SDV seems like they are trying to cheat fate.
Regarding my system's digital package. The package used to be mostly analog with only some digital channels. However, now the digital package is all digital. Yet they still carry the analogs because I have a lot of old TVs in my house without converter boxes and they still get expanded basic.
Bottom line, I question whether a single strand of fiber is limited to 500 continuously transmitted streams. Maybe there are limitations with current techniques or equipment but that's the beauty of building a quality plant. Later you can upgrade the repeaters, head ends and CPE. And the smart operator buries multiple strands so that future upgrades can be paced without disrupting the existing products. Just use a different strand. | |
| | | |
|
|
Charter Embraces SDV
Here is a good article on the current state of SDV