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story category British Telecom's Ingenious Way Of Ending Phorm Criticism
Delete any and all mentions of it from their support forums...
08:34AM Saturday Nov 22 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: business · world
We've seen a lull in the debate over behavioral advertising here in the States, once NebuAD imploded after questions arose over whether their deep packet snooping technology violated your privacy rights. UK lawmakers have had no such reservations about the technology, giving the green light to Phorm, despite their history as a rootkit developer. One of Phorm's biggest partners, British Telecom, was recently exposed by Wikileaks for testing the system without informing customers, and has since decided to move into broader implementation of the system.

As you might expect, a significant number of UK customers are highly annoyed that a former rootkit developer is being sold their browsing histories. However, BT has developed an ingenious way to keep customers from complaining as they move forward: they're simply deleting any and all discussion of the technology from their forums. From an announcement by administrators:
Our broadband support forums are designed to be a place where customers can discuss technical support issues and offer solutions. To ensure that the forums remain constructive we're tightening up our moderation policies and will be deleting threads that don't provide constructive support. For example, we have removed a number of forum discussions about BT Webwise.
By "a number" of discussions, BT means they're not only banning all future discussion of the technology, but they retroactively deleted all threads concerning their Phorm controversy stemming back to February. When paired with Phorm's attempt to censor their Wikipedia entry to their benefit, the duo apparently believe they can eliminate the controversy the 1930's Chicago way. While certainly within their right as forum operators, BT is foolish to think this won't simply light a flame under the Phorm controversy.

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Forums » British Telecom's Ingenious Way Of Ending Phorm Criticism
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

So BT blocks certain forum topics - plenty of other places

Even if BT doesn't permit certain subjects to be debated on THEIR support forums, so what? There are only about 10,000 other places where the subject can be debated. It isn't like it is limiting free speech - because that is a charge that can only be laid against the government and not a private company.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

Davebo

join:2002-11-19
Canada


moderated:
November 23rd, @11:29AM

Re: So BT blocks certain forum topics - plenty of other places

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Even if BT doesn't permit certain subjects to be debated on THEIR support forums, so what? There are only about 10,000 other places where the subject can be debated. It isn't like it is limiting free speech - because that is a charge that can only be laid against the government and not a private company.
Don't you get tired shilling for big business all day long? It must be an incredible pay cheque (or distorted ego).

Keep defending that system, even though it's causing the collapse of the worlds financial system.
--
All trolls are equal, but A troll is more equal than others.

JasonOD

@comcast.net

Re: So BT blocks certain forum topics - plenty of other places

Hello...... other than a personal attack, what's your point? Stuff right here (dslr forums) gets jailed and deleted here on a daily basis. And there's nothing wrong with it when it's outside the bounds of the forum rules.

Starting a new forum is easy enough. If it's a problem of censorship, you can bet they'll be a myriad of other forums and outlets to take it's place.

yock
Eschew the False Dichotomy
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Even if BT doesn't permit certain subjects to be debated on THEIR support forums, so what? There are only about 10,000 other places where the subject can be debated. It isn't like it is limiting free speech - because that is a charge that can only be laid against the government and not a private company.
As much as I detest the idea of squelching discussion, Internet forums are private property and not bastions of free speech. They have every right to prohibit some topics of conversation if they want.

Besides, BT will incur more negative press from the practice.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: So BT blocks certain forum topics - plenty of other places

said by yock See Profile :

As much as I detest the idea of squelching discussion, Internet forums are private property and not bastions of free speech. They have every right to prohibit some topics of conversation if they want.
Indeed.

What BT is doing is accepted procedure for all discussion web sites. In fact BBR has similar rules allowing deletion of messages without a reason being needed:
»Site FAQ »Terms of Use for DSLR
DSLR/BBR may reject, refuse to post or delete any Content for any or no reason...

DSLR/BBR reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who violates Terms of Use or the provisions below, including without limitation, and in DSLR/BBR's sole discretion removing the offending Content from the DSLR/BBR site and terminating the Membership of such violators.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline

Re: So BT blocks certain forum topics - plenty of other places

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

In fact BBR has similar rules allowing deletion of messages without a reason being needed:
»Site FAQ »Terms of Use for DSLR
I always find it interesting when posts are not deleted even though they are blatant flaming / personal attacks and have been "hey mod"'d. I guess it depends on who is being flamed.

[expecting this posted to be deleted any time now.... kind of ironic given this topic isn't it?]

raw
War Eagle
Premium
join:2001-01-17
Pasadena, MD
clubs:

said by yock See Profile :

As much as I detest the idea of squelching discussion, Internet forums are private property and not bastions of free speech. They have every right to prohibit some topics of conversation if they want.

Besides, BT will incur more negative press from the practice.
Agreed. It's incredibly stupid and stinks of head-in-the-sand management, but it's certainly within the discretion of just about any forum's TOS.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

BT does hold a right to remove a topic saying somethey do sucks just as Blizzard does on their offical World of Warcraft forums. pretty much if you need to complain about a company it is best to do it on a 3rd party forum, because short of legal action or a gross violation of site policy a forum like this wont delete a post.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Even if BT doesn't permit certain subjects to be debated on THEIR support forums, so what? There are only about 10,000 other places where the subject can be debated. It isn't like it is limiting free speech - because that is a charge that can only be laid against the government and not a private company.
No, that is something that can be leveled against anyone - it just happens that the government isn't allowed to do it(in the US), but, private forums are. Cowardly of them to squelch criticism.

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

We can discuss it here.

Isn't this the site to go to for all things related to broadband?

swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs:
·Skype
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast

Re: We can discuss it here.

Simple answer, yes. Naturally though going to your own ISP's forum would make sense for some.

It's disgusting to see ISPs play cleanup just to better their image. Make something look like it never happened is just wrong, especially if you are exposed, like here at BBR.

Damn money, always gets in the way of making good (right) decisions.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

the government's motives seem odd

they complain about Google's streetview and various data mining involved with search. yet Phorm on BT gathering all your http requests is just fine.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL

edit:
November 22nd, @09:56AM

1930's Chicag Way?

Well, maybe the 20s. By the 30s the Chicago was was to buy em off, not knock em off!
--
Illegitimati non carborundum
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23

so go back and keep posting

more people post the better
it will cost them time and effort

go go go

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Yahoo

Re: so go back and keep posting

Kind of like when Digg tried to censor posts about the AACS processing key (you know, the one that began with 09-f9). A Streisand Effect-like backlash occurred after they began deleting posts with the hex code in them. The number of posts skyrocketed out of protest.

Perhaps the same thing will happen with BT, though they are far less likely to back down. But given enough criticism, they may just blink.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

Jonah

@btcentralplus.com

Re: so go back and keep posting

Tried that if you mention Webwise Phorm or anything similar you get Summarily Banned from Posting both on the BT Business Forum & the BT Retail Forum!

Good isn't it just mention a service that they are Testing & Assessing for Deployment & the BT User gets BANNED!

BTCustomer

@btcentralplus.com

deletion of Phorm criticism

I'm one of the Beta forum posters and critics of Phorm and Webwise who has been affected by BT's action. Of course they have the right to delete posts on their own forums. But when they do, we also have the right to make sure that they have to suffer the PR heat for a very boneheaded act of foot shooting.

BT are really being unwise about this. If they were confident in their product BT Webwise, then those threads would be still open. This action has spread across the web and into mainstream paper broadsheets more quickly than any other action they have taken so far. They deserve every bit of hostile press out there. But of course - they did have the right to do it - any company has the right to show contempt for their customers. They can laugh about it all the way to the stock exchange.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Post a criticism, complaint or ongoing issue and get deleted

"We're perfect. Just ask anyone.*"

*Any negative opinions, experiences, complaints or comments will be deleted.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Just more corporate facism

Kinda reminds me of work.

They make claims that posting "information" on the Internet which "Reflects poorly on the company" is akin to a kind of "cyberterrorism" which can damage the reputation, standing, stock value, etc of the company and therefore is a "crime" and grounds for dismissal or worse. (Threats of copyright infringement, trade secrets, etc etc)

The problem is, they don't bother making the distinction between false or factual information.... meaning even if it's true they will try to stop you and punish you for it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
·EarthLink

Re: Just more corporate facism

said by KrK See Profile :

Kinda reminds me of work.

They make claims that posting "information" on the Internet which "Reflects poorly on the company" is akin to a kind of "cyberterrorism" which can damage the reputation, standing, stock value, etc of the company and therefore is a "crime" and grounds for dismissal or worse. (Threats of copyright infringement, trade secrets, etc etc)

The problem is, they don't bother making the distinction between false or factual information.... meaning even if it's true they will try to stop you and punish you for it.
Hmm, how about if they don't know who is posting information about the company on-line? »www.glassdoor.com anyone?
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Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Manufacturers and ISPs doing damage control...

Yet another reason I use DSLR for my support needs.

bluecar1

@btcentralplus.com

Badly Timed (BT) Censorship

i to was banned from BT forums for asking if a post had been deleted as unlike other forums the leave a stub to show a post moderated or deleted, BT mods totally delete it and leave no trace

the other thing that has not been picked up in any of the news articles relating to the deletion of all things webwise and phorm related, ws that in over 500 posts on the trial announcement thread, NOT A SINGLE QUESTION WAS ANSWERED BY BT OR EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED

also anything relating to delays in BT issuing MAC codes got binned at the same time, as they were not technically support issues

way to go BT, i for one will be leaving BT either

1 -: when my contract ends
or 2:- if they roll out webwise , i will beak my contract under the material change clause as my ISP will no longer be a mere conduit, but a censor and advertising agency

peter
Metatron2008

join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA

Legal...

Doesn't mean right, and doesn't mean it will stay that way.

'Legal' is a method for alot of companies to use to do alot of illegal things, using 'legal' loopholes.
Forums » British Telecom's Ingenious Way Of Ending Phorm Criticism


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