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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced No, of course they haven't. Blame anyone but themselves. The trouble is the *AA labels tarred the brush, so the innocent performers and innocent labels are getting hurt too. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
edit:
July 2nd, @09:20AM
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced Probably because some people just "have" to download the latest song no matter how bad it is. They've become musical packrat-pirates. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| The problem is that take an album of say 10 tracks. The typical mix out of the industry today is a couple good, a few mediocre and the rest spacefiller trash. People are sharing the good and some of the mediocre tracks because they don't want to pay the overpriced amount for under half an album.
People are also sharing as a try before you buy mechanism. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
 ·Site5.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by sbrook  :The problem is that take an album of say 10 tracks. The typical mix out of the industry today is a couple good, a few mediocre and the rest spacefiller trash. People are sharing the good and some of the mediocre tracks because they don't want to pay the overpriced amount for under half an album. People are also sharing as a try before you buy mechanism. That model has been going on for years. There are just a handful of albums that I can consider every song to be excellent. Even in the years of the 60s through the early 90s. I thought albums should have been eliminated a long time ago. Bands should just be selling singles of the best stuff.
At the same time though, as an art form, music is perceived differently by different people.
Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money. | |
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bolt
Former Broadband Exile
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN
 ·Community Wireless
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced Personally, I bought more CDs while Napster was alive than at any other time. I could count the number of CD's I've bought since Napster was closed down on one hand. They shot themselves in the foot. The could have used Napster as the most uber promotion device in the world. Instead, they decided to bury it. F-em. | |
| | | | | | LurkerLito
join:2004-06-08
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by bolt :Personally, I bought more CDs while Napster was alive than at any other time. I could count the number of CD's I've bought since Napster was closed down on one hand. Same with me. When I first saw napster I found new bands almost every day. I must have bought about 5 CDs a month. Since they were shut down and the RIAA started suing people I am down to like 5 albums ever 2-3 years. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| said by Nightfall : Bands should just be selling singles of the best stuff. Which is part & parcel of why the music industry is on the decline. The head cheesedicks at the RIAA absolutely refuse to see that reality and instead cling to the album concept because that's what's made them truckloads of money. It is a textbook 101 example of an industry refusing to accept consumer demand and now they're paying for it and desperately searching for someone (the consumers who else) to blame.
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by Nightfall : 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rampant copyright infringement going on is not the answer. A boycott of the product is. Which is a beautiful theory, but this is the market we're talking about, and, the market has ways of correcting itself. We are seing that consumers will choose convenience and risk alleged copyright infringment if necessary in order to satisfy demand. Boycotting never resolves anything. Companies laugh at boycotts. There is no leverage whatSOever over them to change their outdated business model. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by SilverSurfer :said by Nightfall : 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rampant copyright infringement going on is not the answer. A boycott of the product is. Which is a beautiful theory, but this is the market we're talking about, and, the market has ways of correcting itself. We are seing that consumers will choose convenience and risk alleged copyright infringment if necessary in order to satisfy demand. Boycotting never resolves anything. Companies laugh at boycotts. There is no leverage whatSOever over them to change their outdated business model. Thats because the boycotts are done half assed. If the product is that crappy, then it should be easy to boycott it. Instead, we have a bunch of two faced liars who say the music on the radio is nothing but crap....but they freely share files anyway.
Customers choose convenience and a free product, and its a easy choice to make. In my opinion, not the right choice, but thats just what I believe. | |
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mbnt
join:2002-06-22
Clifton, NJ
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced Bono, like the rest of the music industry, is smoking way too much craCk to notice anything real and substantial. 
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“Unless you've seen KISS live, you don't understand the band.” —Paul Stanley, KISS. (2003). | |
| | | | | | | | | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by Nightfall :Customers choose convenience [...] I would agree with you on this count because it is about convenience, a demand the record companies have been ignoring since 1999. As to your allegations of two faced liars saying one thing and doing something completely different, I would also add freedom from DRM. The P2P clients are just filling consumer demands -convenience + DRM-free music- two items the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore to its own financial peril. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
edit:
July 2nd, @04:33PM
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by SilverSurfer :said by Nightfall :Customers choose convenience [...] I would agree with you on this count because it is about convenience, a demand the record companies have been ignoring since 1999. As to your allegations of two faced liars saying one thing and doing something completely different, I would also add freedom from DRM. The P2P clients are just filling consumer demands -convenience + DRM-free music- two items the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore to its own financial peril. DRM really has very little do with it. In a recent study as to why people pirate, over 70% said it was about saving money. Convenience is a bigger factor than DRM at least in my mind.
You are right though, the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore customer demands. Imagine what would have happened if they would have embraced Shawn Fanning and Napster. What if they made Napster a pay service, charged everyone .25 cents a song (no DRM and various bitrates to choose from) for the entire RIAA catalog with no DRM. IMHO, music copyright infringement wouldn't be a big issue. Instead, they fought it tooth and nail. | |
| | | | | | | | | | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by Nightfall : Imagine what would have happened if they would have embraced Shawn Fanning and Napster. What if they made Napster a pay service, charged everyone .25 cents a song (no DRM and various bitrates to choose from) for the entire RIAA catalog with no DRM. IMHO, music copyright infringement wouldn't be a big issue. Instead, they fought it tooth and nail. Absolutely. The RIAA not only missed that gravy train, but derailed it permanently. | |
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sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
edit:
July 2nd, @06:13PM
| quote:
Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money.
Exactly. Try it. Decide it sucks. Don't buy it.
This is exactly the model I use for software (not just games, apps too) and anime, and indirectly, music. Anime music videos are infringing too, but I would never have bought a Nightwish CD if it weren't for a couple AMVs featuring their music. I never would've bought Need for Speed Most Wanted if I hadn't pirated it first (heck later I even bought a wheel for it).
Unfortunately, the vast majority of stuff that I try in such a manner, sucks. Pacific Storm could've been such a great game, but had several fatal flaws. Far Cry, whose demo was great, turned out to suck in the full game (I loved the parts where you actually fight human enemies. The mutants totally killed it for me. Make a Far Cry with no mutants, and I'd buy it). Sure glad I didn't waste my money on it.
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Think outside the fox...Seamonkey | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
edit:
July 2nd, @07:52PM
| Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced said by sivran : quote:
Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money.
Exactly. Try it. Decide it sucks. Don't buy it. This is exactly the model I use for software (not just games, apps too) and anime, and indirectly, music. Anime music videos are infringing too, but I would never have bought a Nightwish CD if it weren't for a couple AMVs featuring their music. I never would've bought Need for Speed Most Wanted if I hadn't pirated it first (heck later I even bought a wheel for it). Unfortunately, the vast majority of stuff that I try in such a manner, sucks. Pacific Storm could've been such a great game, but had several fatal flaws. Far Cry, whose demo was great, turned out to suck in the full game (I loved the parts where you actually fight human enemies. The mutants totally killed it for me. Make a Far Cry with no mutants, and I'd buy it). Sure glad I didn't waste my money on it. I am all for that model.
However, not everyone follows that rule.
I know of a local design business that has warezed versions of Photoshop CS3 on 8 workstations. Why? Its cheaper to do that than buy the product. Even though the product makes tens of thousands for them in the course of a year.
Then you have people who download countless movies, watch them, burn copies of them for their viewing pleasure later, and share them with others. How many times do you have to use a product before it becomes a "lost sale"? 2? 3? How about a media center full of dvd quality movies that have been illegally downloaded and are all watched multiple times?
Shareware has been a concept out there for a long time so it is nothing new. The problem comes up when consumers feel they have the right to download and use what they want without paying for it. Especially if they use the product on a daily basis.
The difference is, you paid for your material you found to be interesting. I know a lot of cheapskates who don't pay for anything they download illegally. Whats worse is that they keep hundreds of gigs of this stuff. | |
| | | | | | | | | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | I don't know why people buy or even download most of the music that's released today. Every time I forget to bring my iPod, which I just listen to podcasts on, I try the radio and after 5 mins or less I turn it off because it's complete garbage. | |
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baineschile
join:2008-05-10
Oak Park, MI | Because its free | |
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axelrose
Without GOD you're not living.
join:2005-05-25
Chattanooga, TN
·Comcast
| Why oh why....
I miss the good old days when you'd have to go to a store and buy a cassette with 4-8 songs on it for around $12 each.
I also miss stretching the tape as you rewinded or forewarded it some.
Then it was CD's and those started at $25 each for a joyous 8-14 songs.
I can't see why everyone is in such a hurry to download an album for free?
Can I hear a 'o yeah brother'??
--
I have been very charitable while poor and kind to people even while undergoing enormous personal pain.
My only weakness is that I at times have placed trust in deceitful people.
I know that GOD will be my ONLY judge in this life or the next. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | well the college student or person making sigs for their gaming forums atleast has an excuse to pirate PS, a few grand is just too much for a toy.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Misoverestimating Bono and other musicians need to get used to the fact that the general public has simply adjusted the market value of music.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Misoverestimating said by supergirl :Yep, "I'm not paying $16.99 for a CD with one frickin' good song on it" Used CD stores are great. $5 each. U2 included. Funny you mention that. Last Christmas I was giving out CDs for stocking stuffers. I was actually able to buy compilation disks from lesser-known acts for around $5 or so at Best Buy.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
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AZ_OGM
join:2007-01-12
Phoenix, AZ
| said by supergirl : Used CD stores are great. $5 each. U2 included. Even the used stores are starting to have limited selection. I went through the selection at Bookmans about a week ago and didn't see any CDs worth the $6 they charge. They had a so-so collection of vinyl but I haven't used my turntable in years. The last few CDs I have bought are acoustic compilations where the proceeds go to charity. | |
| | | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| said by supergirl :said by pnh102 :Bono and other musicians need to get used to the fact that the general public has simply adjusted the market value of music. Yep, "I'm not paying $16.99 for a CD with one frickin' good song on it" Used CD stores are great. $5 each. U2 included. Last time I looked in a used shop, I don't think I saw a single U2 CD priced at over $2... | |
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Jeffrey
Bye George, 1937-2008
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| said by pnh102 :Bono and other musicians need to get used to the fact that the general public has simply adjusted the market value of music. I love U2, have since the early 1980s, but he's a little off-base here. The last CD I purchased was ironically U2's How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb---in 2004. I have purchased the works of two other artists - The Black Crowes and REM - but those were on iTunes for $9.99
At any rate, I have adjusted my purchasing of music. Not becuase I want to or because I don't have $15. What's out there sucks, and even with music I enjoy - like U2 - I did not love their most recent album. I should have gone on iTunes and spent #4 x $0.99 and called it a day.
Even in the peak days of Napster, I would download music to hear it, to see if I liked it, and I would still then go out and buy the CD. May be a lot of others aren't like that, but to blame the transport mechanism and the ISPs instead of the music industry itself?
--
And so castles made of sand, slip into the sea, eventually.
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin
blog | |
| footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO | My dream I dream of a world where people that use recreational drugs aren't allowed to hold press conferences. But it is only a dream....
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It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash | |
| | 
NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
| Re: My dream said by footballdude :I dream of a world where people that use recreational drugs aren't allowed to hold press conferences. But it is only a dream.... There are plenty of "sober" people who are much worse than their counterparts who are into recreational drug use.
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Over ten plus years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
edit:
July 2nd, @09:02AM
| Nothing better to do? Seriously this comes up what every quarter like clockwork anymore?
Doesn't this wackjob have anything better to do, like Idunno...RECORD AN ALBUM or maybe TOUR?
Yes yes, it's all about piracy and no other reason could possibly contribute. Yes, yes we get it.
Oh and while I am here let's talk about those "profiting" "shoplifter" ISPs out there. Wow, that's some serious crack they're smoking. ISPs are providing the connection. Regardless of what the P2P traffic load is on that pipe, there is much more on the Internet than P2P. They aren't marketing a "Broadband P2P connection" here.
It's just another way to try and pass the buck and the blame.
Idiots. | |
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mrchris
Stop deleting my posts
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: Nothing better to do? Or perhaps get a clue like Trent Reznor has and use their own studio/label, perhaps even follow what he is doing by giving part of the album away for free. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Nothing better to do? said by mrchris :Or perhaps get a clue like Trent Reznor has and use their own studio/label, perhaps even follow what he is doing by giving part of the album away for free. Exactly. Peter Gabriel and others have done that for years.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Times, they are a-changin'- They've made their money by the old business models-which is(has been) changing. They haven't changed with the times. Just look at the automotive industry-the new wave is bowling over the old way of thinking business. Go with the flow or drown. | |
| | | james1
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Re: Of course... HELLO HELLO!!!!
YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH!!!! | |
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bolt
Former Broadband Exile
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN | Never This makes me more than happy that I've never bought an U2 album. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| The real reason for the music industry's decline If Bono thinks that the ISPs are the reason why the music industry is declining, then he's ignoring a huge amount of other factors.
First of all, the economy isn't exactly booming right now. People have less money to spend on entertainment items.
Secondly, when they do look to spend their entertainment dollars, they have more options than ever. They could buy a month of a premium cable channel. They could buy a DVD. They could buy a video game. They could rent a movie. And so on. Buying the latest CD isn't the only outlet for people's entertainment dollar.
Thirdly, the music that the industry itself has been putting out stinks. The music industry execs have been pushing out "copycat music acts" for too long. They find an act that's actually good and then find a dozen other less talented, but similar acts and flood the market expecting each one to be a hit. When the market's tastes react by rejecting all of the acts, the industry moves on to the next hit and bands similar to that one. These actions cause people to seek out other outlets for their entertainment dollar.
The net effect is that people are buying less CDs than ever. Heck, just over a year ago, the Dreamgirls soundtrack took #1 by selling 60,000 copies in a week. 60,000! That wasn't the result of ISPs "disintermediating" the music industry, it was the result of a weakened economy coupled with poor music selection and many other choices available to the consumer.
The music industry should get used to this as I don't think that these trends are going away any time soon. The economy might improve, but that would only lead to more choices competing for entertainment dollars. The music industry could increase the quality of their offerings, but that would place the blame on them. They'd rather blame someone else, like those dirty, rotten Internet Pirates.
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-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause
Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | |
| | | | lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA | Re: We need Deregulation You've obviously never heard of white hat hacking. | |
| LastSurvivor
join:2008-01-02
Toledo, OH
| Umm... Competition Maybe? How many artists of music are there? Seriously, how many groups, performers and singers does U2 compete with?
Plus everyone may not like certain music types, so maybe one is not selling because one doesn't have something new/good to compete against the untold others?
Maybe this generation or the 'in' generation or whomever doesn't like the music of U2, and the ones who do already have much of what they like and won't buy more. Course you can put out more stuff (anthologies, best of..., uncut, remastered, etc...) and hope your 'fans' buy the same music again. Marketing is a powerful tool.
So maybe get off your duffs and work on making more to get paid more? Or are they hoping to get fees/taxes/levies put into place so they can keep the money flowing without breaking a sweat? | |
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mrchris
Stop deleting my posts
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: Umm... Competition Maybe? said by LastSurvivor :How many artists of music are there? Seriously, how many groups, performers and singers does U2 compete with? Tens of thousands of artists. Hell, there's at least 30,000 or more active metal (and I mean the real thing, not this pop rock/metalcore nonsense) groups out there. | |
| ImaDuffer264
join:2003-11-05
Mercer, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Bono right or wrong? Hell, I don't know but..... I know that there is very little music being recorded today that I would want to own but that doesn't give me the right to download it for free. I own 3 or 4 early U2 CD's along with several hundred other CD's and LP's. All of them bought and paid for by me.
I've been using the internet since way before Al Gore invented it  and I have no clue how P2P actually works. I have a pretty good general idea but have honestly never tried it and have no plans on ever trying it.
I have read several times over the last couple of years that there are legitimate uses for P2P. That may be the case but my gut instinct tells me (and I have nothing solid to base this upon) that the majority of people that use P2P are using it to get "free" music, movies, and software. Maybe I'm dead wrong and way off base but I don't think so.
I have two stories:
1.) 3 or 4 years ago I was sitting in my local Elks Lodge having a couple of beers and shooting the breeze with a buddy that just got back from visiting his son in Virginia.
He told me his son made a couple dozen music cd's for him.
I asked where the music came from and he told me his son downloaded them from the internet.
I said "did he pay for them?"
He replied " Hell no, you can get all the music you want for free."
Me: "But isn't that illegal?"
Him: "Come on Dave, get with the program. Everybody is doing it. So tell me you have never downloaded any music or saftware from the internet that you didn't pay for.
Me: Ummm...no I haven't!
Him: Well that's your problem. Everyone else is doing it.
2.) When I was about 9 or 10 years old growing up in rural northwestern Pennsylvania I used to walk through an apple orchard on my way home from school. One fall day I noticed a particularly large red juicy apple dangling in front of me so I proceeded to pick it. I took it home and showed my dad.
He asked if I had paid for it and of course I said no. He then made me take some money (nickel, dime...I don't remember now) from my piggy bank, took me by the hand and walked me up the street to Mr Soles orchard. I then had to apologize to Mr Soles for stealing the apple and had to pay him for it. My dad later explained that if everyone that walked through the orchard took an apple there would be none left for Mr Soles to sell which was his only source of income.
I guess the second story is how I feel about pirating music. It has nothing to do with whether "they" charge too much or if the song sucks therefore it isn't worth anything or whether the RIAA or MPAA should be cut out as middle men or anything else. If you did not buy that song, album, movie, whatever and it wasn't given to you and you have it in your possession then you are a thief plain and simple.
I know this is a long read and I do apologize. I have never spoken up about this subject and just wanted to get this off my chest. | |
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Bono Blames ISPs For Music Industry Decline
