 
ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | hurting overall performance sounds like something ... could this be what the RIAA, MPAA, and etc ... wish for? destory a platform by making everyone a greedy leecher | |
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tiger72
NexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Kansas City, MO
clubs: | Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... they probably coded it themselves. i congratulate them | |
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Nanoprobe
Wandering in subspace
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Orlando, FL
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... Use Azureus, install stuffer plugin, add AzureusBitTyrant to the ban list, end of problem. Anyone that runs a tracker with half a brain will ban this client also. End of problem part 2. Use newsgroups. End of problem part 3. 
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Resistance is Futile | |
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| | | Penny3000
join:2003-11-24
Oak Ridge, TN | Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... One thing you fail to notice, that the clients can masquerade as another client. Also, some clients won't also have the option to not even disclose what the client is. | |
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Nanoprobe
Wandering in subspace
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Orlando, FL
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... It doesn't matter. I've tested this and here is what I've found. I started a download and allowed 100 connections. 98 were Azureus the other 2 UTorrent (which is the only other client I allow to connect) Azureus will detect a client that doesn't disclose what it is as "unknown" and it will also be banned. In short, anything that isn't Azureus or UTorrent are on my banned list. Stuffer allows me to use a string or regex to ban every other client even if they try to disguise themselves as some form of the 2 clients I allow. End of problem 
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Resistance is Futile | |
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| | | | | robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK | Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... That works as long as you can trust the other peer's client to report its name accurately 
Hint: You can't. | |
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Nanoprobe
Wandering in subspace
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Orlando, FL
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... *Sigh* It doesn't matter what the other client reports or doesn't report. They can be blocked. I let one run all last nite just to test. 354 bans.
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Resistance is Futile | |
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| | | | | | | robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... said by Nanoprobe  :*Sigh* It doesn't matter what the other client reports or doesn't report. They can be blocked. I let one run all last nite just to test. 354 bans. I think you completely miss the point. | |
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Nanoprobe
Wandering in subspace
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Orlando, FL
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... said by robo_mojo :said by Nanoprobe :*Sigh* It doesn't matter what the other client reports or doesn't report. They can be blocked. I let one run all last nite just to test. 354 bans. I think you completely miss the point. Then please explain to me what the point is.
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Resistance is Futile | |
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| | | | | | | | | robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK
| Re: hurting overall performance sounds like something ... said by Nanoprobe :Then please explain to me what the point is. I'm pretty sure that we already did to some extent....... But read on, this will be interesting to you.
The name of the client is just something it is programmed to tell you. If I'm making my own BT client, can't I very well call it whatever I want? Don't you think I could make a client and have it tell you it is Azureus 2.5.0.4 when it really is something else of my own production? Or maybe I really DO have an Azureus client, but I have modified its code to employ a more selfish unchoking algorithm (there are already MANY such alterations of Azureus available online, it is a popular program for modding).
There are even clients that have functionality to allow the user to set the name it will report to other peers. For an example, look at this screen shot from G3 torrent (I'm not saying it is a bad client at all, but just to show that clients can do things like spoof their names easily): »g3torrent.sourceforge.net/spoofer.png
So, anyway, the point is that you can't assume a client is really the official Azureus or uTorrent just because it says it is. The more people use such name-based blocking (like you do with stuffer), the more that other clients will start calling themselves Azureus and uTorrent or something that's considered "good".
I hope that it makes sense now. | |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR | Another technique -- only allow 5 connections per torrent. You'll be full in no time, non-sharers will be snubbed and leave and eventually you'll have 5 good citizens that are playing nice. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
|  No honor among thieves
TOBY KEITH LYRICS "No Honor Among Thieves" This world's a jungle there ain't no justice Laws of nature rule this land Better hide your horses, bury your whiskey Hold your woman any way you can Cause there ain't no right or wrong, nothing's carved in stone It ain't cheating if you don't get caught Jokers laugh and losers grieve Cause out here there's no honor among thieves..... » www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tobykeit···ves.htmlSo much for community good will. And is anyone surprised?
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA | And you have permission to post those lyrics?
(fires off email to RIAA, ASCAP...) | |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| They agree with you in this case, yet these exact same lyrics apply in the real world between nations and you can rest assured they are not going to agree with you when we act in our own interest.
It seems that the constitution really is a suicide pact after all. | |
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hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :They wrote a song about this: TOBY KEITH LYRICS "No Honor Among Thieves" This world's a jungle there ain't no justice Laws of nature rule this land Better hide your horses, bury your whiskey Hold your woman any way you can Cause there ain't no right or wrong, nothing's carved in stone It ain't cheating if you don't get caught Jokers laugh and losers grieve Cause out here there's no honor among thieves..... » www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tobykeit···ves.htmlSo much for community good will. And is anyone surprised? ohhh, that can be said for any community, especially the political community.
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: No honor among thieves said by hopeflicker :ohhh, that can be said for any community, especially the political community. And big business.... | |
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hopeflicker
IheartPhotog
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: No honor among thieves said by KrK :said by hopeflicker :ohhh, that can be said for any community, especially the political community. And big business.... Same thing
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN | I love it. I quit ftp sites and irc channels due to the ridiculous upload/dnload ratios. Most people don't have high speed uploads and I'm not sucking up my entire 384kbps upload and render my web browsing useless. Now the dnloading will be fun | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
02101
| Re: I love it. said by ossito16 :I quit ftp sites and irc channels due to the ridiculous upload/dnload ratios. Most people don't have high speed uploads and I'm not sucking up my entire 384kbps upload and render my web browsing useless. Now the dnloading will be fun And for each person who thinks like you, the download speeds drop a little more, until...
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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fdgdfgdf
@shawcable.net
 from:
dadkins
| Private 100mbit ssl ftp's are the way to go mate! | |
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anoni
@tribune.com | Re: I love it. because everyone has access to those, silly statement | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | If you do not pull your own weight then you shall starve to death my friend.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Re: Direct Downloads haha agree but that's some expensive bandwidth we are talking about. | |
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dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: Direct Downloads I click their ads... have to turn off Outpost to see them though, but I click all the ads. 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Constantine, MI
clubs:
·Embarq
| could see a need.... I could see why people might semi-legitimately want to use something like greedy torrent on private trackers....I download UK tv shows not available on DVD via UKnova and man there are like 400-700 people seeding at the same time as me to only 100 or less leechers....it is a pain in the butt trying to get a leech to connect.....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
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sabretooth
join:2005-02-08
Chicago, IL
| et tu, leecher? it's actions like this that suck all the honesty out of piracy. i thought this was all about taking a united front against the escalating prices and inferior products being circulated by the entertainment industry. i mean... i could have expected this sort of behavior from some folks on the internet, but certainly not my file-sharing brethren. | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Re: et tu, leecher? said by sabretooth :it's actions like this that suck all the honesty out of piracy. i thought this was all about taking a united front against the escalating prices and inferior products being circulated by the entertainment industry. i mean... i could have expected this sort of behavior from some folks on the internet, but certainly not my file-sharing brethren. Obviously, you are ignorant about the human psyche. People are by nature greedy.
I would also point out honesty and piracy is mutually exclusive. One cannot have moral honesty when one is doing what is immoral, that is stealing what is not yours.
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: et tu, leecher? I believe that sabretooth 's comment had it's <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags stripped out.
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Go Colts | |
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wilburyan
join:2002-08-01 | Good thing I use private Private sites like torrentleech and oink ban users who cheat or have low share ratios | |
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dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| One small problem with BT and Ratios... I like obscure files sometimes.
Ones that few people wish to download.
So, I download say a 1.2GB file and no one is requesting that file, ever... there went my ratio, huh?
BT is great for popular files... but not all files.
Ya gotta select your sources wisely!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: One small problem with BT and Ratios... said by dadkins :I like obscure files sometimes. Ones that few people wish to download. So, I download say a 1.2GB file and no one is requesting that file, ever... there went my ratio, huh? BT is great for popular files... but not all files. Ya gotta select your sources wisely! Not all of us have a choice of sources to choose from so its more a choice of 'do i really want that at screwing up my ratio?' now if you want to share any (via PM), i'd graciously accept them
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by dadkins :I like obscure files sometimes. Ones that few people wish to download. So, I download say a 1.2GB file and no one is requesting that file, ever... there went my ratio, huh? BT is great for popular files... but not all files. Ya gotta select your sources wisely! Interesting note, on a Private tracker, if your share ratio is above 1, your depriving someone of being able to upload. Ultimatly all share ratios must add up to the number of copies of the torrent created. | |
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bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | New Defense I'm Sorry RIAA, but I didn't upload anything. I have Greedy Torent running that makes people think I have uploaded all the stuff you say I did. | |
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Re: New Defense rofl haha =D | |
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| Fishie
join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA | That is sooo funny. I never thought of it that way. | |
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Fishie
join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA
| P2P...It's own worst enemy One of the ways to get rid of something it to add to it rather than trying to subtract. We have seen this before. When the RIAA, or whoever, saturated the Kazaa networks with corrupted mp3s. Madonna added her song with a nice little message. I wouldn't doubt it if the P2P opposition was helping people make and promote these types of clients. With no one sharing, P2P would collapse.
P2P, or greed, is really it's own worst enemy. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | This tool.... won't hurt overall performance of the swarm, because it doesn't fool other clients. What it does is get around ratio rules make up by people who don't understand that not everyone can have a ratio of 1:1 or better. | |
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| Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ | Re: This tool.... Common sense will tell you that the overwhelming majority of BT users do not used programs like these.
Programs like these have been out for years and haven't stopped anything. | |
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Re: This tool.... If check their forums, there's only a small amount of registered users. So all in all, not a lot of people uses these dumb problems besides it doesn't even work! | |
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DrewCapu
Giant Diehard
join:2001-12-19
California
clubs: | Should be a non-issue just stick to the communities that have a comprehensive list of banned/accepted clients. | |
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| robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK
| Re: Should be a non-issue said by DrewCapu :just stick to the communities that have a comprehensive list of banned/accepted clients. It is not as easy as that. A client can just report its name as the name of some other (non-banned) client. Oh, well. | |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | hah Bitorrent is for people that live in poverty. | |
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hadirtyJlo
join:2004-03-31
Huntsville, AL
| hrm Bittorrent is for people that don't feel like paying inflated prices for substandard merchandise. If I download a movie or an album, and I like is enough to watch or listen to it more than once, it's good enough for me to buy, and I'll go out of my way to find it on sale one day. I do buy it, just takes a while to get the money for luxuries like that. It's also a way to share free stuff as well, although that is admittedly a lower scale deal .
DJ | |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Re: hrm Bittorrent sucks anyway, newsgroups is where it is at. I don't mind paying 30 dollars a month to download at my caps without having to bother uploading a single thing. | |
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robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK
edit:
March 15th, @04:31PM
| Game Theory? A species of animals that ruthelessly kills each other for food goes extinct. Only a few individuals of the population can be selfish and take advantage of the others, there has to be a careful balance that has to be checked. If everyone adopts the selfish strategy, you can kiss your species goodbye.
A swarm full of leechers who do not upload also do not download. It is only by the "optimistic" nature of OTHER (non-selfish) clients in the swarm that the selfish clients even get a chance. Take away the optimistic elements of the protocol, and you have no transfers (or at least severely restricted transfers, and unoptimal piece distributions).
I guess it is to be expected. Humans have a long and depressing history of taking advantage of each other. It was just a matter of time before some individuals designed BT clients to mirror this behavior. 
But anyway... Sheesh. If we're all gonna be designing and using selfish clients, we might as well all be using FTP instead! | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| I can see how some of these programs can be needed I have often been in a situation where I have a leach who is sucking down a file from me at 200+KBs but refuses to send me any of the parts I need (by having me choked) or sending at under 10KBs. So long as a leach has parts I need, I expect that they should maintain a reasonable D/L ratio with me (if they do not have anything I want, I'm willing to cut them some slack on how fast they are downloading from me so long as I have the spare upload bandwidth after taking care of those who ARE trading parts with me) and using a client which is designed to throttle them if they refuse to trade parts I need but only want to suck up parts I have at an excessive rate is playing fair in my opinion. | |
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jonez
Got Anime?
Premium
join:2004-09-24
Stow, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: I can see how some of these programs can be needed i could care less about someone not uploading to me. I haven't had any cases where i've been on a torrent and haven't gotten over 200-300 KB/s download. I usually upload at about 475KB/s and have over 20 slots for uploads. I also usually seed a torrent around 500KBps for one day after i download it, which is over 30GBs.
Not saying that everyone is like me, but I haven't noticed this issue yet.
However, if it were a smaller torrent and some people were doing this, then I would most likely switch on to azureus (from utorrent) and block upload to them.
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My diet is highly composed of FIBER!
Massachusetts FIOS Map | |
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Being Cheated
| Re: I can see how some of these programs can be needed GreedySth... modifies your bittorrent header on the fly to cheat... It also means it CAN add whatever/whenever anything on the data you send to a 'peer'.
To cheat MIGHT end up being cheated: not just cheated, but also a security risk. Now an open-source & safe bittorrent client has a man-in-the-middle close-source modifier....
If you want to cheat, edit the sourcecode of an open-source, Gooooooood Luuuuuuuck | |
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GT user
@co.in | Re: I can see how some of these programs can be needed Greedy torrent only modifies the ratio number send to tracker ... it doesnt do anything with peers . | |
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Rexter
YeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
| Fear not! Bit Torrent, by it's very nature prevents this from becoming a real issue. BT works on a tit-for-tat, benefit of the doubt exchange. While it is possible to take advantage of the built in good will, the advantages of doing so are not sustainable, as you must continue to hop peers. As the protocol continues to evolve, the swarm performance will continue to be optimized through changes of standards. The real damage to the swarm performance will be done by the over reaction of individuals, who just can't stand the thought that someone might get one up on them. BitTorrent works best with an open community. Creating block lists is a desperate action that is self-defeating. Fortunately most have no clue, nor care to have a clue how BT works, and will simply continue to use the most popular clients, with default settings. My conclusion to this issue, ignore it, and it will go away.
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With every new wave of optimism, or pessimism, we are ready to abandon history, and time tested principles, but we cling tenaciously and unquestioningly to our prejudices. (Benjamin Graham) | |
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spielzeuger
join:2006-07-18
Arvada, CO
|  Why is this a surprise at all?
So since many BitTorrent users have such little regard for the law, and the "economic community," it comes as little surprise that they should have just as much distain for the "BitTorrent" community. They're selfish & greedy to begin with for "wanting something for nothing." This is just another extension of that credo. In fact, I find it comical when members of various torrent sites are chastised by moderators for "being leechers and not seeding." Torrent sites are by nature, if not by design, frequented by people intent on defrauding the manufacturers of the files they download. We can't honestly expect those same people to act any less selfishly towards the "BitTorrent Community."
Btw, I don't mean to pass judgment on BitTorrent users, or sound "holier than thou." At least, not without passing judgment on myself.  The bottom line is that those rules of fairness and kindness that we all learned in Kindergarten are meant to be applied universally, not just when it is convenient. | |
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| robo_mojo
join:2006-01-11
Ada, OK
| Re: Why is this a surprise at all? Your entire argument is based on the *single* assumption that BitTorrent users are greedy, pirating thieves, if I read you correctly. Take away that assumption, and your argument instantly vanishes, has no other basis to rest on at all.
I would take away the assumption, because at least myself, I use BitTorrent for legitimate reasons. I wouldn't even waste the time or bandwidth to pirate movies. That's considering how affordable and valuable a rental subscription is, and how much larger a selection you can borrow from with one compared to the pirate sources.
I BitTorrent 50 to 100 gigs of data each month, and none of it is pirated movies or games. Impossible? | |
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BitTorrent Users Get Greedy
