 
guhuna
The Raiders SUCK Should move back to LA
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Discovery Bay, CA | hell ya. No matter what, pirates are always going to come out on top. | |
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| | | james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| Re: hell ya. Bad argument. I have a car, I should be able to run over whoever I want with it!
A better point would be that copyright enforcement is not beneficial to either the artist or the consumer. The only people getting rich off the current copyright scheme are the middle men who contribute nothing. They USED to contribute by promoting bands and distributing their content, but now all that can be done by the average computer savy child. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: hell ya. said by james  :Bad argument. I have a car, I should be able to run over whoever I want with it! A better point would be that copyright enforcement is not beneficial to either the artist or the consumer. The only people getting rich off the current copyright scheme are the middle men who contribute nothing. They USED to contribute by promoting bands and distributing their content, but now all that can be done by the average computer savy child. Very well said.... | |
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| | | | raduque
join:2006-07-03
Corpus Christi, TX
| Bad analogy! This is more like the city doing something to the roads to prevent you from moving out of the lane you're in because there's a chance you might hit somebody on the side of the road.
Streets are open and free. It's up to you to follow or break the law and use the streets in a considerate way.
The same should be said of the SERVICE you are PAYING FOR. | |
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zachary1
you talkin' to me?
join:2004-03-07
right here | Re: hell ya. Freedom would include freedom to obey, or break, any law. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
edit:
February 17th, @12:31AM
| said by james :The only people getting rich off the current copyright scheme are the middle men who contribute nothing. Wrong, they contribute the ability to absorb risk and knowledge of the market.
If this weren't so bands wouldn't sign contracts with them.
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Mooooooo!!! | |
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| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Good thing there's no pirated software available as .torrents... 
It's not just about music and movies.  | |
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| | | | | james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| Re: hell ya. Yeah  Poor Adobe Photoshop became the standard for photo editing because of all that damned piracy! I wonder how many people actually paid for photoshop while they were learning on it and screwing around.
I downloaded a pirated copy of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and loved it, then I saw it on Steam and bought it.
I downloaded a pirated copy of Maya and have been learning how to use it, supposing I get good at 3d modeling and actually make money with it. I will then spend the money for a license (mostly because the penalty for corporate users is pretty bad).
Small amounts of piracy can be very good for a product. I'm not saying everyone should get everything for free, I'm just saying it's not as black and white as the lawyers are trying to make us think.
I make an exception for those who charge "customers" for the pirated product. Those are what the definition of Pirate SHOULD be. Anyone sharing for free shouldn't be punished, everyone knows sharing is caring 3 . | |
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| | | | jtorre69
join:2005-12-26
Hollywood, FL
| Bad argument. I have a car, I should be able to run over whoever I want with it!
A better point would be that copyright enforcement is not beneficial to either the artist or the consumer. The only people getting rich off the current copyright scheme are the middle men who contribute nothing. They USED to contribute by promoting bands and distributing their content, but now all that can be done by the average computer savy child.
You totally missed the point. I think the whole problem stems from the fact that comcast limits and caps your data. This whole post would not have been an issue if they named their service "limited hsi". | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| If you want a pipe you can do with as you please, then you should look into a T-1 or something similar. It appears that DSL allows people to use their service much more freely... there's your answer.
Just in case you claim that DSL isn't available in your ares, that excuse doesn't excuse you or any user from violating the AUP/TOS in which you accepted and agreed to.
You also make mention that "It seems that only cable CO's have problem with people using BT." and for that I applaud you... This shouldn't have to be stated to you or anyone in the first place.. Cable is a shared medium and must be managed .. DSL, the slower connection, as you already may know, is a dedicated line to the CO and what you do does not affect others in your neighborhood.
Cable internet has ALWAYS been sold primarily as a residential service for residential type use. That's where I will stop. Anything further is guaranteed to double the current number of messages in this thread. | |
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Work
@charter.com
 from:
dadkins
| i use BT for alot of things above and beyond piracy.
haev you ever tried to collaborate with other musical artists who're 1400miles away using raw uncompressed audio while trying to build a drum and bass track from the ground up?
ever try to send them that file via a slower transfer method?
Trust me. bittorrent is an effective way to share large files with other people. BT is a tool, much like a gun, a computer or even a dump truck. How someone uses it is entirely seperate from the original purpose.
by your logic, TK, we should 1)ban guns because people use them to kill people, 2)ban computers because people use them to steal other people's identity, and 3) ban dump trucks because people use them to hide dead bodies occasionally.
doesn't make sense to me, but hey, it's your rose colored (or anti-piracy colored, really) glasses. | |
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neonhomer
Honoray Mythbuster
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL | Re: hell ya. IIRC, Blizzard Entertainment uses Bittorrent to transfer updates for World of Warcraft... | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: hell ya. .. and since you only download them, you should not be affected by the torrents, right?
Or wait.. is blizzard using the last mile end user to distribute their software in which they are being paid for by the end user? If so, then other "end users" are uploading the files FOR Blizzard. (I know the answer to this and am being obvious about something)
It's not your fault that Blizzard updates are being slowed down.. it's not Comcast or any other ISP's fault.. it's Blizzard's fault for not running their own data centers to upload the patches for you to download.
Blizzard, like any other revenue generating business, should not be distributing their patches on the backs of the ISP's last mile users.. they are collecting money each month from the end user in order to operate their business.
Where is the outrage from the paying users of Blizzard for this shoddy practice in the first place?
Sandvine affects upload streams of BT.. | |
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| | | | | gopnick
join:2005-01-07
Benton, AR | Re: hell ya. Wow, if "that ain't the telco line," I don't know what is.
Do you work for AT&T?
If Blizzard's customers have a problem with it (they clearly do not) they can buy software elsewhere. That's capitalism. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: hell ya. Thanks for the laugh.
Your focus is on the wrong area... for one, I'm a former customer.. dropped them for all their BS .. tired of their faulty patches and tired of their inability to put out a maintenance schedule that doesn't work.. tired of them allowing cheats on the system and tired of them taking away resources because of their faulty programming.
Do I work for AT&T? Give me a break.. what a total and complete moronic, stupid, idiotic come back... if you knew anything, or bothered, you'd know else wise. | |
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| | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | That's surprising -- your files are shared and served by that many people? BT isn't really helpful for 1:1 sharing... | |
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SimbaTLK1
Rawrrr
join:2001-09-07
Bethel Park, PA
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: hell ya. said by jester121 :That's surprising -- your files are shared and served by that many people? BT isn't really helpful for 1:1 sharing... ...I was wondering the same thing :-\
--Matt | |
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| | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by guhuna :No matter what, pirates are always going to come out on top. And why is that good except for thieves? To pirates, I'd agree - its not a good thing. However, for us legal users of BT, this is indeed welcome news. | |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| HAHAHA ,, you must be slightly misinformed TK Junk Mail and rest of you RIAA CRIA lovers.
Maybe you'd like to learn who the real thieves are:
Try to google video "Ring of Power" and watch it. All 6 hrs of it. Learn it, let it sink in ,, then maybe get back to us here and post some real comments.
Hint: download the video via BT and spread it around.
Å | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: hell ya. The majority of the traffic is piracy - yet so many people want to ignore that fact and justify it's wonderful uses.
The real bottom line here is that in the end, the "smart people" as is being stated here, that will come out on top will be the ISPs. It's only a matter of time if they can't traffic shape their networks to manage high users that they WILL move to a billing by the byte model.
Then, in that case, .... who really wins? and who loses?
The pirates don't win... the bulk of the end users lose when their bills go through the roof thanks to the smug piracy fighters.
These people fighting this BT battle are not doing anyone, including themselves, any favors. | |
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| | | | bunklung
join:2002-07-13
Northampton, MA
edit:
February 17th, @01:21PM
| Re: hell ya. said by fiberguy :The majority of the traffic is piracy - yet so many people want to ignore that fact and justify it's wonderful uses. The real bottom line here is that in the end, the "smart people" as is being stated here, that will come out on top will be the ISPs. It's only a matter of time if they can't traffic shape their networks to manage high users that they WILL move to a billing by the byte model. Then, in that case, .... who really wins? and who loses? The pirates don't win... the bulk of the end users lose when their bills go through the roof thanks to the smug piracy fighters. These people fighting this BT battle are not doing anyone, including themselves, any favors. I'm a bit more optimistic. I think the ISPs (cable) that have the inability to grow their networks to meet the bandwidth needs (this could be a technical reason or financial, or both) will suffer in the end.
I think Verizon will take the opportunity to eat cable's lunch if they are officially outed by the FCC on sandvine. This is regardless if the FCC does anything about it. High speed internet, where competition is available, is highly competitive. I can see the ads now... "DSL and Fios has no caps. We do not charge you for overages and we do not throttle you. It's pure fiber, unlimited. Comcast and cable TV however, has invisible caps and throttles your bandwidth!". The ad will follow up with quotes from the FCC report.
Now, that doesn't mean Verizon will do exactly what you say and use it as a money grab too, but I really think that want users to grab the perception that fios an dsl is much better than cable.
Cable internet has had the perception that it's so much faster than DSL and a much better product. I think their advertised rates are finally catching up to the pain of real world use.
Also, if BT went away right this second, the bandwidth needs continue to grow.
Long ago will be the days when mom and pops point and click their way through thier e-mail and check the news on cnn. The killer apps will move/force the ISPs to grow.
Secondly, I don't think for a second the move to tiered caps is just because they can't handle BT, it's because cable is threatened by other forms of digital distribution, like Apple TV and Netflix online.
Would you agree that Apple TV and Netflix are getting a free ride on the ISPs just like Blizzard does on their distribution model?
*edit for spelling* | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
edit:
February 17th, @09:14AM
| Re: hell ya. said by bunklung :
Secondly, I don't think for a second the move to tiered caps is just because they can't handle BT, it's because cable is threated by other forms of digital distribution, like Apple TV and Netflix online.
Would you agree that Apple TV and Netflix are getting a free ride on the ISPs just like Blizzard does on their distribution model?
Cable will have no problem handling very large bandwidth growth downstream. It is only the stress that P2P puts on upstream that is the issue. So, no I don't think Netflix and Apple TV are problems.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | | bunklung
join:2002-07-13
Northampton, MA
| Re: hell ya. said by TK Junk Mail :said by bunklung :
Secondly, I don't think for a second the move to tiered caps is just because they can't handle BT, it's because cable is threated by other forms of digital distribution, like Apple TV and Netflix online.
Would you agree that Apple TV and Netflix are getting a free ride on the ISPs just like Blizzard does on their distribution model?
Cable will have no problem handling very large bandwidth growth downstream. It is only the stress that P2P puts on upstream that is the issue. So, no I don't think Netflix and Apple TV are problems. I'd like to reiterate my point. Netflix and Apple TV are a problem, since it's competition to their services, re: VOD.
Tiered service fixes all those pesky problems.
They will continue to advertise high speeds beyond what they can sustain. Yes, cable will have no problem handling very large bandwidth growth downstream, but that comes at a cost. It's an expense they would rather not pay for a technology that has it's limitations. | |
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slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29
Conyers, GA
moderated:
February 17th, @05:28AM
| you obviously have never used the technology or you would not cry out "Thief" every time this subject is mentioned.
Get a friggin' grip. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | i dont think BT should be throttlable, i dont want my WoW patches slowed down when big patches come out.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: hell ya. said by Kearnstd :i dont think BT should be throttlable, i dont want my WoW patches slowed down when big patches come out. Then write WOW and ask them to operate a legitimate data center. After all, you are paying a monthly fee for the service. That should also include WOW running a datea center of their own. | |
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See 20 replies to this post |
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Surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08 | Pirates They help ISP's fix the wholes in the net. HAHA | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H2Z
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Fantastic! That means when my TV station is on the air by the end of the year, it'll still be possible for me to distribute my station's programming via BitTorrent to as many people who want it as possible!
Now if only I can convince The Pirate Bay to create an automated means to upload the torrent files on their servers. I'd rather have a computer system do the uploads than have someone do the same operation all day long. I've already asked them if they had something like that or would consider it, and they said "NO!" | |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON | Re: Fantastic! Try btjunkie? | |
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Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Will just slow them down BitTorrent traffic is pretty obvious to anyone monitoring, encrypted or not. Many ISPs(including Comcast) have been killing such connections in an automated manner. Can that kind of traffic actually hide using better obfuscation or simply a different fingerprint? I highly doubt it. 100 encrypted connections to a port on a specific client could be flagged no matter how you obfuscate it. The cat and mouse game continues. *Watches the ISPs get the firmware update for the new encryption* | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA | Criminals need to be stopped We need less illegal traffic choking the internet, and more legit use to replace it. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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conk50k
@charter.com
| torrent Finally theres something in the works. We are so far behind in internet speeds and in technology and isps are only delaying whats going to come anyways. Everyone in Japanand everywhere else probably already had 5megs before 2000. We are still stuck in the slow lane all because a company wants to make alittle more money. I know its capitalism but the government should have a broadband option like the post which offers a real cheap option. Ups and fedex cost a fortune while the us post office is like 2-5 bux for shipping. The cable companies are just ripping everyone off. If it was up to them for the rest of the 100 years then we would be stuck at like 20 megs when everyone is at 500 terabyte internet. Bitorrent is the voice of the people trying to over throw this kinda crap. Hope it works out.  | |
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| jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: torrent Interesting analogy -- the USPS didn't even offer tracking on anything except overnight until a few years ago, and lord only knows when your stuff might arrive. Do you really thing a big bureaucracy is the answer? | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| The cat and mouse game continues. In the end the consumer will get screwed because the more BT developers do to circumvent the throttling the more Comcast will combat with broader restrictions.
Maybe they should focus on a client that is less disruptive to networks. You don't see Comcast going after NNTP or IRC traffic in the same way. | |
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tbsteph
join:2002-01-31
Maylene, AL | Re: The cat and mouse game continues. The primary users of the BitTorrent technology use it to illegally share copyrighted material. You folks can give all the clever rationalizations you can think of but, downloading such material is nothing more than thievery. You are what you do. | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: The cat and mouse game continues. Lets nuke AOL Instant Messenger too. Its used by pedophiles to find victims. Lets nuke HTTP, people use it to commit statutory rape through myspace. Let nuke people. Because they prevent from Jesus ruling the world. | |
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| | | battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | It's the chaos that BT traffic creates. I don't really think they care about the content. IF they cared about the content they would have gone after NNTP traffic which can consume much more bandwidth than BT. | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
| said by tbsteph :The primary users of the BitTorrent technology use it to illegally share copyrighted material. You folks can give all the clever rationalizations you can think of but, downloading such material is nothing more than thievery. You are what you do. Maybe so but the fact is it is not the only purpose of BT. Targeting the technology as a whole is just a heavy handed approach by ISPs not willing to spend on upgrades to their networks.
There are legal uses for BT. But I have never seen any of you anti 'piracy' people say anything about that.
We need net neutrality laws. ISPs should be dumb pipe providers and if they try anything else they should be fined into bankruptcy. Corporations can make threats about it slowing down the progress since it's them not moving forward and even going back considering metered bandwidth plans.
Greed at it's worst. | |
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ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
| Get a grip people... What about free file hosting sites?
What about FTP?
What about email?
What about IM?
Torrent isn't the only way and to complain about it is just being foolish.
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PentiumD 930 DC 3.0GHz - 4GB PC2-4200 - 300GB SATA - BFG Nvidia 7950GT OC 512MB
- Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600(1101MCE) - Vista Ultimate SP1 32bit | |
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Dwayne12
@net.au
| Bittorrent isn't illegal Firstly, why is it that everyone assumes Bittorrent is only used for illegal purposes?
Bitorrent is also a good means of transferring and sharing large files across the Internet. Yes it is used by pirates and yes most use of bittorrent is pirate related, but some people use it for legal purposes.
What about people who own guns? There is always a chance they'll use it to hurt someone, but there is also people who use guns for legal purposes.
Seriously, some people are very closed minded about issues like this. There have been so many record labels embracing bittorrent and I think it's a viable means of legal sharing.
Who are Comcast to decide what you download in the first place? You pay them for a service every month that you wish to be able to do whatever you want with and they throttle bittorrent traffic.
They're not only stopping pirates using bittorrent they are also stopping legitimate users from using bittorrent as well. It appears to be Comcast are saying "Everyone who uses bitorrent is a criminal".
There is also no way that they can know what bitorrent traffic is legal and what isn't and I hope their sandvine application becomes useless once people find a work around for it.
- Dwayne Charrington.
»www.dwaynecharrington.com | |
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| Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Bittorrent isn't illegal No, the service itself is perfectly legal. However, there are several situations where some uses of it may not be:
1) I think everyone will agree that using it to mass-produce copyrighted material is illegal (we can argue over whether it is moral or not, but it's certainly against the law in the US and most other countries).
2) I don't know how ISPs in Australia work, but since broadband started becoming readily available here in the US, you have never been permitted to run a server on residential service.
Yes, you can upload files to another server. Yes, you can send files to specific people via email, ftp, dcc or whatever. But you have never been permitted to deliberately offer up files on your machine for anyone to come along and grab.
3) I'm also a bit dubious of companies like Vuze and Blizzard using BitTorrent to distribute (legal) files. They don't want to pay to host their files themselves.
To me, that sounds like the actions of a parasite: I think it's unfair for me to bear part of the cost of their distribution network so my neighbor can enjoy their content, while they contribute nothing at all back to me.
4) I'd also like to remind everyone that no-one has ever accused (let alone found any proof of) Comcast of interfering with downloads via BitTorrent. I also note that no-one has made any credible accusations of Comcast interfering with non-BitTorrent related content (from Apple, Netflix, or whoever).
This whole argument is over whether Comcast has the right to manage its upstream bandwidth, which everyone agrees is limited because of the very nature of the current DOCSIS architecture. | |
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lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
edit:
February 17th, @04:14AM
| New member 1st post First I would like to say I have really enjoyed sitting in the background, and watching all of the bantering back and forth. I suspect all of your strong willed with even stronger opinions will probable let me slide on this post, but I am sure it will only be a matter of time before I am down there on the mat with some of you scrapping it out.
Now for my thoughts on this post. I really don't look at this as a bit torrent issue so much as a throttling issue. To me that would be the same as saying most of us could afford and had a few 100 thousand dollar sports car, and because a few of use drove like a mad man through the middle of down town at 120 miles an hour we all had to have a governor put on our cars, and could only go 55 mph when we took our cars to the track. Not to mention I am one of those people that thinks if a company is going to advertise an all you can eat for a flat price then I should be able to eat as much as I want in that sitting/month, and the company should be man enough to stand behind what they sold me without changing the rules part way through. Now lets say I have a connection that can download 100 gigs in 4 day at about 10Mb/sec, and cost $50 a month, but the company does not want me to use any more than 99.9 gigs a month. Well then I think the company needs to be up front and honest with me from the get go and say you are capped at a 100 gigs a month, or set the speed to not be able to exceed the 99.9 gigs. It is just flat out BS for them to came back to me later and say i know we said your were going to get this fantastic sports car, but that just is not going to work for us. You are only allowed to drive it like and old beater that is missing on 1 cylinder if you don't want to listen to use bitch about using it like we advertised it to you.
The other thing that gets me is some of the people here seem to think that if the people that download movies did not or could not download movies they would go to the theater and pay $10 to see "same crappy movie 5". I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they are not going to, and in time when they don't or can't download movies, they are going to buy a cheaper broadband connection, fewer hard drives, cd's, dvd's, burners. So, yea the media mafia is kind of right about lost revenue, but the majority of that lost revenue will be in hardware loss not data. Ok, maybe you guys wont let me slide on my first post, and will start flaming right out of the gate. I guess we will see.  | |
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telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA
| Re: New member 1st post You can have a car that goes 120 miles per hour, but the manufacturer does not want to keep paying the warranty repair bills because you are running at that speed 24 hours a day (many times breaking the law, but that is not the point).
They could terminate your warranty or raise the cost of the service contract for everyone to pay for a few people abusing the cars. "But you advertised the car would go to 7,000 RPMs and 120 Mph!!!!"
Perhaps instead of a governor or canceling contracts, the manufacturer should change the warranty to miles. If you exceed this you need to start paying for these repairs. hmmm...
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"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik | |
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BitTorrent Developers Working on Ways to Get Around Sandvine
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