 mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN | What happens? The world becomes a better place? | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | Re: What happens? less tracking? | |
| | NetDroid2
join:2004-08-16
Excelsior, MN | If something is encrypted usually someone also wants to crack or decrypt it.
In this case we are most likely going to begin hearing how bad this is by many sources. | |
| | | wilburyan
join:2002-08-01 | Re: What happens? wanting to crack it and being able to crack it are entirely different.
The likelyhood of this encryption being cracked (RC-160) is likely similiar to finding a needle in a field full of haystacks. | |
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snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs: | Re: What happens? As long as the encryption is better than WEP, life is good. With WEP its like trying to find a needle in a haystack with a medal detector. Slightly annoying but very easy to do. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | faster internet since the psp traffic will be slower using encryption? | |
| | | newyorkslick
join:2001-12-19
Rosedale, NY
edit:
March 1st, @12:14PM
| Re: What happens? A decent Algorithm can remedy that problem.
I'm too lazy to go through the computational details of Big O at the time being though.
There will always be a lag in the time it takes to encrypt and decrypt, but it shouldn’t cause that much of a dent in the speed of torrents, unless your PC is slow as sh*t.
I’ve been using encryption for a while and I haven’t seen any drop in speed, but then I set my client to allow even un-encrypted connections.
Only Time will tell…
No your internet will not be faster. Unless you care about your Ping Times in a Counterstrike server... maybe | |
| | 
Erwin_D
join:2003-06-30
Netherlands | Encryption means a stop to government/corporate tampering. We finally get back our internet as we knew it! | |
| | | 
You Wish Yea
@comcast.net
| Re: What happens? Do you rely believe your statement? What part of the Internet, do you seriously think is not obtainable by the powers that Be? If you can get it, they already know about it and can un-do it. Duh, don't be silly.
Encryption or not, if anybody is doing illegal stuff, you will get un-encrypted; quickly.
Mark my word. You can not hide on the Web. Just ask all of the people whom have been caught. These same people who thought just as you think; I can get away with it if I do xyz. NOT GONNA HAPPEN........ | |
| | | | ivangill
Premium
join:2002-04-04
nw62hl
| Re: What happens? The only way anyone will get unencrypted quickly is when we have commercially availavble multibit quantum computers, these are more than a decade away. Until then brute force attacks will take months/years depending on the encryption type and consume huge amounts of computer power. This will deter all but the most determined, and there will need to be a seriously good reason to justify the application of such resources to unencrypting traffic. Blocking ports being used for bit torrent traffic I suspect will not come close. | |
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ssj4android
Redefining Reality
join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI | Re: What happens? Well, you can still easily get caught. They'd just have to join the torrent like a peer does. Easy. Although, throttling will be harder. You could throttle all encrypted/unknown traffic, but then you'd take out things like SSH and VPN, right? | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: What happens? said by ssj4android  :Well, you can still easily get caught. Correct. This is about circumnavigating traffic shaping by obscuring transport protocol at the packet-level, not content at the file-level. | |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by You Wish Yea :
Do you rely believe your statement? What part of the Internet, do you seriously think is not obtainable by the powers that Be? If you can get it, they already know about it and can un-do it. I agree with this part of your assertion.As an example look at the request for Google's search results a while back.Look how Verizon handed over customer info requested of them.That is just the tip of the iceberg, of what we learned.Imagine all that we don't know of yet.
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| | | | Roop
join:2003-11-15
Ottawa, ON
 ·Internet Telephone..
| said by You Wish Yea :
Encryption or not, if anybody is doing illegal stuff, you will get un-encrypted; quickly.
OH NOES!!!!!!111 MY ENCRYPTION HAS BEEN STOELDED!!!!
check your encryption free! before you get unencrypted. | |
| | HMS1
join:2006-01-14
Austin, TX
edit:
March 1st, @11:33AM
| said by mlundin :The world becomes a better place? Yes, but very indirectly.
The point of the BBC story was that if BT users start encrypting, the job of spooks (Echelon, MI-agencies, NSA etc.) and police is harder. Their assumption has been, apparently, that anyone encrypting was more likely to be a criminal or terrorist; now it's harder to spot the encrypted packets that are not file-sharing because they are drowned out by the ones that are file-sharing.
It may have been motivated by real concern, but it also smells of a scare tactic. Something along the lines of "if you encrypt p2p, terrorists and perverts will get away with evil deeds! It's the bit-torrenters' fault!"
Well, in fact, contrary to the common stupid cliche, hiding does not mean you're doing something wrong. In this case it is to avoid harrassment that may well be unjust. So the right solution is reform of law and government policy to the point where people feel less need to encrypt. And that in turn would require less of the excessive snooping.
If copyright were liberalized and the cops and spies had to get warrants based on strong evidence in order to intercept people's communications, then there would be less need for encryption and there would be less of the alleged problem.
Meanwhile, I'd like to encourage everyone to encrypt more of their communications, because it promotes reform and obstructs unjustified snooping. | |
| 
MoeDumb
"America Si, Obama No."
Premium
join:2002-09-23
Bronx, NY | All of the above so far  | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
| Re: ISP's will switch to byte caps if they can't shape torrents Highly unlikely, with dozens of film and IPTV delivery services launching in the next three years. The answer is to upgrade networks, don't promise speeds you can't deliver, and only apply restrictions and shaping to particularly egregious upstream offenders. | |
| | 
andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | thats sort of a moot point in this case because both shaw and rogers are both cable companies and both allready have bit caps in place | |
| | | 
blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: ISP's will switch to byte caps if they can't shape torrents said by andyb :thats sort of a moot point in this case because both shaw and rogers are both cable companies and both allready have bit caps in place Rogers says they have a bit cap in place, but they haven't sent out letters lately, iirc. It's a soft cap, but even those who have heavily downloaded that I know haven't received letters.
Now, Rogers' port throttling seems to be occurring across the whole gammut. I've tried alternate ports and random ports to no avail. | |
| | 
G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| You could be right..
They could add caps. They could add fees.
But they can't censor the flow of information. THAT is how we win, and they lose. The 'caps' and everything will go away slowly, as the backbones increase, and customers demand more. But the FREEDOM of the information will never disappear. Once everyone encrypts everything, we, the citizens win, and the government goes back to fearing us, as it should be.
The people who lose the most from this, the **AA's. Period. They wanted to play against a crowd that is much more technologically savy, and smarter than them, and they lost. There is no law, no act of congress, no moral crusade they can wage that will defeat end-to-end encryption. The genie has been released, and it now calls it's former masters 'Beatch!'. Bow before your new masters **AA bitches, it's a new generations turn to set the rules.
--
Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
| | | feverfive
join:2005-06-16
Omaha, NE | Re: ISP's will switch to byte caps if they can't shape torrents Yeah, it's ironic that the **AA's are the orchestrators of their own undoing. History is replete w/ examples of groups/movements such as these that pick the wrong tactics, and the wrong targets. | |
| | 
bentman78
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
·Comcast
| not likely....if companies start charging fees for that kind of stuff, people will just move. For every company that charges a fee for using bandwidth there will be one that doesn't. People who just browse the "net" and use e-mail won't care, but people that download or game might.
I download all of the time...mostly legally from allofmp3.com or itunes where I purchase music legally. I also download TV shows (which is considered illegal by some) I miss so I can watch them later. I refuse to pay 12 dollars a month for a comcast DVR when I can download the program and watch it later for free. In my opinion that's the same thing as DVRing or taping it anyway. I also download HBO shows and watch them later, but I am also a subscriber to the channel.
So to put it other terms, if my ISP throttles BT traffic I would move. While I am not a heavy downloader or a big pirate per se, I do download TV shows from using bittorrent watch later. | |
| | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| ...and right around the time they figure out a way to shape torrent traffic, someone will come up with something else ISP's and the general public are simply unready for.
In the end, they (the ISP's and general public) are the ones playing catch-up and will continue to play catch-up unless they suddenly get smarter than the folks they're trying to hold back.
So... P2P users *will* inevitably "win the war", because those trying to shut them down have to be reactive, not proactive. | |
| | | 
MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: ISP's will switch to byte caps if they can't shape torrents said by Primis1 :...and right around the time they figure out a way to shape torrent traffic, someone will come up with something else ISP's and the general public are simply unready for. In the end, they (the ISP's and general public) are the ones playing catch-up and will continue to play catch-up unless they suddenly get smarter than the folks they're trying to hold back. So... P2P users *will* inevitably "win the war", because those trying to shut them down have to be reactive, not proactive. The war will never be "won" by the P2P'ers.
It will simply end up being a bunch of "one-upmanships" or, better yet, a "war of attrition".
Don't doubt the ingenuity of the billion-dollar company who owns the network. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | BBC is great... ... and was always the best news source. Too bad we don't have a single news source like BBC here in the US, nothing, nada, zero. | |
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bentman78
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
·Comcast
| Re: BBC is great... I wouldn't want one like the Beeb, they are way to left. I worked at a job were I worked with British military personnel who told me that the Commodore of a ship in the Persian Gulf during the 2003 war in Iraq kicked the Beeb off of the ship because they were blatantly lying with their reporting and pissing off the Royal Navy and Marines.
I dislike the BBC news immensely, and I am half British (my mother and all of her family are from/reside in the UK). I do like "Coupling" and "Footballers Wives" though.... | |
| | | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: BBC is great... said by bentman78 :I worked at a job were I worked with British military personnel who told me that the Commodore of a ship in the Persian Gulf during the 2003 war in Iraq kicked the Beeb off of the ship because they were blatantly lying with their reporting and pissing off the Royal Navy and Marines. Sounds a lot like SeeBS and the New York Times Too bad our military doesn't do the same thing.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: BBC is great... Damn good thing our military DOESN'T. The day the military stops bowing to civilian oversight is the day the US dies. I don't dislike the military, but they are the most powerful, and by extension, terrifying force in the world. It's the job of the free press to report WHAT THEY SEE. I'd rather a reporter piss off the military, and the military have to wag it's tail like a good bitch, than the other way around, where the press has to wag it's tail to the military overlords.
--
Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: BBC is great... said by G_Poobah :Damn good thing our military DOESN'T. The day the military stops bowing to civilian oversight is the day the US dies. The US military will always be under the command of the President who is a civilian. The media has no authority to act as "civilian oversight" over the military.
said by G_Poobah :It's the job of the free press to report WHAT THEY SEE. I'd rather a reporter piss off the military, and the military have to wag it's tail like a good bitch, than the other way around, where the press has to wag it's tail to the military overlords. Reporting the facts and justifiably rubbing people in the military the wrong way is nothing, but pressing an agenda and compromising the military's ability to do its job is another.
Case in point, Newsweek knew that publishing a false story about the US military desecrating the Koran at Gitmo would make our job in the middle east even more difficult as well as endanger US civilians abroad. In some countries, that publication would have been shut down altogether. Being shut out of military facilities as a punishment for deliberately passing off lies as truth is a slap on the wrist compared to the amount of damage that single article did.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| said by pnh102 :said by bentman78 :I worked at a job were I worked with British military personnel who told me that the Commodore of a ship in the Persian Gulf during the 2003 war in Iraq kicked the Beeb off of the ship because they were blatantly lying with their reporting and pissing off the Royal Navy and Marines. Sounds a lot like SeeBS and the New York Times It rather sounds like a big bullshit for me.
Too bad our military doesn't do the same thing.
FYI: our military does censore every word of those "embedded" (what a ridiculous idea!) idiot puppets relay back, no matter it's based on the BS they are being fed up by the same military already. | |
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See 10 replies to this post | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| said by bentman78 :I wouldn't want one like the Beeb, they are way to left. Well, I call it BS. Being critical is certainly not equals with being lefty.
I worked at a job were I worked with British military personnel who told me that the Commodore of a ship in the Persian Gulf during the 2003 war in Iraq kicked the Beeb off of the ship because they were blatantly lying with their reporting and pissing off the Royal Navy and Marines.
Which, as we know, are completely unbiased sources about their own job, suuure...  It's kinda funny you're invoking the obviously biased military personnel to tell a story about BBC's supposed lies - I hope you see how impossible to believe this story as you've posted here...  I dislike the BBC news immensely, and I am half British (my mother and all of her family are from/reside in the UK). I do like "Coupling" and "Footballers Wives" though....
I'm not British at all and I do like BBC News. I have friends working at BBC News - either in UK or as correspondents in other EU countries) - and I'm very well aware of their problems as well as their very high jounralistic standards which - I thought more people are aware of it - serves as standards for most of the European and other democratic news sources. | |
| | 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | I only get my news from the Colbert Report! | |
| | newyorkslick
join:2001-12-19
Rosedale, NY
| Thats the damn truth.
And yes, it does lean to the left. But not to the extent MSNBC or CNN do. I trust BBC more then I do any network here, ESPECIALLY when it comes to international news.
Their international news is a lot more thorough then anything I’ve seen in this country.
Watch too much MSNBC, CNN and FOX, you wont know what the hell is going on outside the country In depth except on BIG news events and Iraq.
My two cents
Now Back to the internets!
//Also loves the Economist | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Re: BBC is great... said by newyorkslick :Thats the damn truth. And yes, it does lean to the left. But not to the extent MSNBC or CNN do. I trust BBC more then I do any network here, ESPECIALLY when it comes to international news. Their international news is a lot more thorough then anything I’ve seen in this country. Watch too much MSNBC, CNN and FOX, you wont know what the hell is going on outside the country In depth except on BIG news events and Iraq. My two cents Now Back to the internets! //Also loves the Economist I watch EuroNews on daily basis and I also check German (Deutsche Welle), Canadian, British, Chinese, Arabic channels pretty often. And best of the best: a lot of them are Free-To-Air (FTA), all you need is a $2-300-worth investment for the satellite setup. | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: BBC is great... said by kamm :I watch EuroNews on daily basis and I also check German (Deutsche Welle), KAMM!! Will you cap D-W World & torrent it for us? Can't reliably find it anywhere. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Re: BBC is great... said by jap :said by kamm :I watch EuroNews on daily basis and I also check German (Deutsche Welle), KAMM!! Will you cap D-W World & torrent it for us? Can't reliably find it anywhere. 1. Uhh, my PC pretty far from the my kitchen I have my int'l sat setup... gotta see what can I do with my wife's laptop... I'll look into it this weekend...
2. No torrent, sorry (I don't use any torrent). Newsgroups, that's fine but I gotta check DW's policy on this...
By the way DW has live online version »www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_med···,00.html
or on demand programming »www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,4756,00.html | |
| 
Skilos
join:2000-08-19
Astoria, NY | G-men and encryption The government has expressed concern on the use of encryption by the general public. It is pretty difficult for them to break a 256bit encrypted file by there own admission.. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
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pb5k
more cowbell
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Tempe, AZ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: torrents not an awful thing Good points.
I bought the Beavis and Butt Head Season box set and I was a bit disappointed that they cut out many of the music videos which really made the show what it was. In fact lots of the regular skits were missing footage from the original aired versions.
How do I know? I downloaded the unedited and "banned" episodes (ya know, the ones where beavis had an obsession for fire, and some kid watched it and burned himself to death) via bittorrent and usenet.
Listen up studios and ISPs: make your content available in a decent un-drm'ed format, with comparable video and audio quality to the pirates' (some of those groups release better stuff than the studios!) and you will make money.
If the studios and providers would focus more on building infrastructure and GIVING THE CUSTOMER WHAT THEY WANT, rather than trying to restrict and throttle our use, they could make much more money. | |
| | | | peerimpact
join:2005-11-07
Londonderry, VT | the BBC uses p2p The Beeb have a vested interest in the sucess of p2p they are using Kontiki a p2p platform to distribute content via braodband with thier BBC iMP project. | |
| James_d
join:2005-08-27
uk
| It's worse or better than that It's not just encryption. The big media copyright holders are pushing the development of transfer systems which use techniques to defeat traffic analysis as well, guaranteeing that the content you see isn't at the place you're getting it from but is just being relayed from there.
Once every transfer system is using both encryption and onion routing and related techniques, even traffic analysis won't be of value.
For background on onion routing see »www.onion-router.net/ and »tor.eff.org/ .
Assuming the premise of the story is right, the efforts of those big media copyright holders are assisting terrorists and paedophiles. Maybe they should be discouraged from doing so? | |
| 
blindguy
join:2001-05-16
Queen Creek, AZ
clubs:
| p2p dead for me I turned on encryption and my cable company (CableAmerica in AZ) shut off my internet connection. According to their new TOS (Jan 2006) ALL P2P apps are now considered a violation of their TOS. They can see 500 different computers connecting to my machine and they know what it looks like, encrypted or not. All the internet companies have to do is modify their TOS (which they can do at any time they like) to say that p2p apps are not allowed.
I can smell the end of p2p as I type. | |
| | 
COMMAN
Plug Me In
join:2000-07-17
Las Vegas, NV
·Embarq
·Vonage
edit:
March 1st, @06:26PM
| Re: p2p dead for me If it were me, I'd get DSL, Satellite, go in with the neighbors on a T-1, or do without internet before I gave those clowns another dime - what's next? I use Vonage instead of their VOIP and get shut off? Streaming audio consumes too much bandwidth so it's a banned application?
OPEN LETTER TO ALL ISP's:
I want a connection from my premises to the internet backbone (no I don't need Usenet servers or even e-mail servers; have my own thank you). Just a connection - no port blocking, no traffic shaping, no BS. If you can't deliver, then apparently you don't understand the term INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER, and my monthly fees will find another taker!!!!!
(Thank goodness I currently have a decent provider and service plan - at a reasonable price for the level of service and dependability)
If your local cable-co wants to find themselves in the same sinking vessel as the Telcos, they have certainly hit upon the perfect business model. I feel for you - Good Luck.
(And for what it's worth, my opinion is based upon the fact that I feel VERY strongly about "net neutrality" - I've never used a P2P app in my life, but it should be YOUR connection - to use as YOU choose.) | |
| | HMS1
join:2006-01-14
Austin, TX
edit:
March 1st, @06:26PM
| said by blindguy :All the internet companies have to do is modify their TOS (which they can do at any time they like) to say that p2p apps are not allowed.
That's a scary thought.
ISPs rely on the popularity of p2p for much of their customer base. So if a competitor has less onerous terms, people will switch. If all the ISPs start doing this, there will be more agitation for common-carrier rules.
All the innovation and usefulness of the internet has come about because people have been free to use it for whatever applications they choose. It would be very bad policy to let ISPs stifle that freedom as a misguided response to high traffic. Prohibiting certain protocols or applications is very different from merely limiting traffic amounts. | |
| | | jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
| Re: p2p dead for me And the biggest thing is that many ISPs who sell broadband are able to sell that for P2P uses. It's a dirty little secret that many broadband users have no use for broadband if they can't download stuff.
Now, P2P isn't that big a deal to me per se, but if I'm unable to download / upload stuff with TOR/I2P/Freenet, if newsgroups crap out, if HTTP downloads are limited, if bittorrent is blocked so WoW updates take days...
There goes my whole reason for broadband. I might as well go back to dial-up and save my $30-$50 a month.
I mean, basically anything that broadband is good for is bandwidth intensive - by definition. Even websites that are "heavy", are that way cause you need to dl 2-3MB to get the site. DSLR, /. etc are plenty fast on dial-up.
But you can use significant bandwidth/data transfer on homestarrunner, CNN video, Sirius internet radio or Winamp shoutcast.
Some of these caps leave the only benefit of broadband to be not tying up the phone line - but there's internet call waiting, or for $10 less than a DSL package where I live, I can still have a second phone line and dial-up. And then I have all the benefits of a second phone line - 2 people using the phone at once, a fax line as well as internet etc...
--
Opera 8.52(Build 7721); Windows XP Pro SP2;Athlon 64 3400+; 1GB PC3200 DDR; 1M/128k DSL; NOD32(Version 2.5.25); Outpost Pro 3;Proxomitron 4.5j Grypen 2/15/06(Opera mod),GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3 | |
| 
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| What we need What we REALLY need is a standardized protocol for general data encryption. One that any program can use for any data and any purpose.
Such a thing is also very easy to phase in. You're going to have backwards compatibility of course, so you fall back if the remote client/server doesn't support it. But if it does, you just kick in with the prefab encryption module (Heck, a standard DLL/DSO could be used in virtually any program).
Older programs (or any program for that matter) that didn't support it could be made to use encryption via transparent local proxying. There isn't any reason why all net traffic could not be encrypted in this way, helping stem the loss of privacy.
Similar things to what I describe already exist. The excellent Hamachi P2P VPN solution already allows this. If two users happen to be running Hamachi and are connected to the same network (Hamachi treats such things like an instant messenger), all you would have to do to encrypt a connection is connect to your buddy via his Hamachi IP (5.x.x.x) instead of his internet IP. Hamachi will handle all the transport, and encrypt everything using strong encryption.
In fact, this is why I find it laughable when governments want backdoors into Skype because terrorists can use them to communicate securely. What they don't realize is that terrorists can do this by using ANY freely available audio streaming or voice communication by using something like Hamachi, or even an SSH tunnel.
I mean, what is stopping a terrorist from setting up a TeamSpeak server and connecting to it through Hamachi?
--
SuprFile, super simple free image hosting: »suprfile.com | |
|
Rumple Stiltskin
@rr.com | Road Runner: Bandwidth Throttlers, Traffic Shapers TWC, "Road Runner," been throttling my bandwidth, those no-good scoundrels. Using uTorrent 1.6, set preferences: bit torrent --> Protocol Encryption --> Forced + Legacy
My download speed just shot up 600% !!!
Huzzah! | |
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Bit Torrent Arms Race
ISP's will switch to byte caps if they can't shape torrents