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Armament For Peace
join:2002-10-01
Lebanon, PA | yahoo Near the top post, anyway, I hope that more municipalities fight the big companies
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PA Army National Guard - I turn the wrenches that keep the forces moving | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| Re: yahoo Top Post? Come on.. grow up, this is a very important matter. I hope they run Bellsouth & Cox out of town. It might be minor win, but hopefully more communities will make their move to wire themselves instead of depending on these large companies who have no motivation.
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"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius - - - - - - - - - - - Streamfire.net- - AIM - CoNFuCiUsNiCk | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: yahoo Just tie "gay marriage" to fiber -- and the telco's can get everybody to fight it (hey it got an idiot elected president) | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | GEEZ!!! They always have to bring up the political game!!! | |
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starstuff
Fly By Wire
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Mcallen, TX
| Re: GEEZ!!! said by ropeguru  :They always have to bring up the political game!!! That's funny... I never considered it a 'game'. Anyway our president is still an idiot  | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | Re: GEEZ!!! And so are you!! | |
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justgetoverit
@comcast.n | Re: GEEZ!!! Just ignore them. They are, after all, the minority in this country. They're still pissed we didn't vote for the Tin Man. | |
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| | | | | | xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs: | No need to get personal. | |
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2005-2006
@optonline.net
| Yes, run that fiber baby!! Now Verizon should look at that and take a friggin hint, rolling out the fiber like its molasses!!!
Now, if either cablevision or verizon drop the ball, municipal fiber is the way to go, it creates new jobs that are relatively good paying. And to hell with that commercial that says if gov't would get out of the way, telcom companies would innovate... yeah, on the scale of a snail, cherry picking the best, sweetest deals in the country-- as had been the case for years, and years, and still happens today... Its NOW 2005, how long into this year will we wait for the NY market? It should have been 1995 dummies, not 2005, not 2015, not 2025, etc, etc etc.. | |
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AuraReturn
Premium
join:2003-08-18
San Francisco, CA
clubs: | Competition Competition sucks...for this occasion. | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
1 edit | Good thing :D .... | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA | I live close to Lafayette, I used to live there, in fact, and this (debate) is a good thing. They DO have to get out of the way!
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Carl Smith, formerly known as crstec. | |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| for the mayor to say that due capitalist process should "get out of our way." Hmm...I wonder who is "our." I'm sure he doesn't speak for everyone in his community...probably not even 51% on something as controversial as a muni.
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Bizarro I Love You | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA | Re: How convenient Our is the City of Lafayette, and LUS, which is the city consolidated government's utility system. They provide electric and water in Lafayette and surrounding areas.
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Carl Smith, formerly known as crstec. | |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: How convenient said by Carl :Our is the City of Lafayette, and LUS, which is the city consolidated government's utility system. They provide electric and water in Lafayette and surrounding areas. He is a constituent of the people, not a business entity.
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Bizarro I Love You | |
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| | | raydsltech
join:2004-07-04
Concord, NC
| Re: How convenient Government can do very little correctly and not without wasting tons of money. Do you want the government to build and maintain your network? I don't! The government is suppose to protect us not provide us with another wealth redistribution scheme. This is all about having hard working people pay for internet access via taxing the so called rich and giving away internet access for those who can't afford it. | |
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| | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Re: How convenient Muni's are a competing-evils thing. On the one hand, socialized broadband is bad. On the other hand, effective-duopoly broadband supported by the FCCs and franchise agreements is bad too. | |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| Re: How convenient Then how about you just build a network and lease port access to many different companies providing all kinds of different services and pay back the money it takes to build such a project with the money you make leasing port access over say 20 years or whatever length of time. | |
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| | | | underscore
join:2004-04-20
Fairfax, VA
1 edit | said by raydsltech :Government can do very little correctly and not without wasting tons of money. Do you want the government to build and maintain your network? I don't! The government is suppose to protect us not provide us with another wealth redistribution scheme. This is all about having hard working people pay for internet access via taxing the so called rich and giving away internet access for those who can't afford it. "Terry Huval, director of the Lafayette Utilities System, thinks BellSouth's real goal is to kill the project. "Their end-game is to frustrate us so much that we back away from this project," he says. Huval adds, "There won't be any cross-subsidies" because the city plans to use revenue from its new broadband services to finance the entire cost of the project."
Most rich people get their money off the backs of the hard working lower-class, So it doesn't bother me. | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: How convenient said by underscore : Most rich people get their money off the backs of the hard working lower-class, So it doesn't bother me. Bull. Most rich people get their money by busting their asses and working to the point of exhaustion. Only a few make their money by persecution and it usually comes back to haunt them (like Saddam). | |
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| | | | | Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA
| Re: How convenient Their plan calls for 25 year revenue bonds. There is a group trying to call for an election on the issue and have referenced the incorrect bond type in their petition. The group will have to start over again on getting their 75 signatures which have been obtained by cox and bellsouth employees. | |
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| | | | Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA
| Somebody needs to build it. All of the incumbants say that we don't need it, they already have it, and that they won't build it. Yes - they have said all three things. If you want to see how they feel about fiber to the home check out their answers to the Chamber's forum questions.
»www.lafchamber.org/site136.php | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
 ·Charter Pipeline
| said by hailinfantry : said by Carl :Our is the City of Lafayette, and LUS, which is the city consolidated government's utility system. They provide electric and water in Lafayette and surrounding areas. He is a constituent of the people, not a business entity. Well, the local news channel KLFY did a poll and over half the city said they were willing to use LUS and that it was a good idea.
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Carl Smith, formerly known as crstec. | |
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| | | | Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA | Re: How convenient Actually - the city did a feasibility survey which showed that the majority of the community will switch services. For two months we had the battle of the push polls of Cox vs. LUS. | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: How convenient said by Fiber2home :Actually - the city did a feasibility survey which showed that the majority of the community will switch services. For two months we had the battle of the push polls of Cox vs. LUS. Oh i thought it was KLFY lol.
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Carl Smith, formerly known as crstec. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| said by hailinfantry :for the mayor to say that due capitalist process should "get out of our way." I would do just that, get out the way. When it comes time to connect into the network tell em to build various fiber nodes to someone else. Since Bell and Cox are so bad you are tellin them to get out of your way, they obviously must not be good enough to connect into.
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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| | Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA
| Re: How convenient Level III, ITC, ATT already tie into the LUS Fiber rings which are in place. One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that LUS is not starting from scratch on this project. The city is looking for a way to better utilize an asset. There is also discussion of how it LUS can connect into LONI which is going to connect into the LambDaRail. The University is already using LUS assets to connect the research park to the main campus. | |
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some guy
@66.84.x.x
| maybe if the capitalist system actually worked
all it does now is encourage the big players to sit on their thumbs and rake in the profits since nobody else has the money to compete with them (except municipalities, which they are taking out of the game through propaganda techniques and outright bribery of state officials) | |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| He didn't say due capitalist process should get out of the way. He also didn't imply it because in our society(capitalism) municipal services are common.
Also he doesn't have to speak for everyone in his community - sometimes people in power have to do go against the majority - Like it or not that is how our government is set up, we do not live in a strict democracy. This is why we elect people to make choices for us. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by hailinfantry :for the mayor to say that due capitalist process should "get out of our way." No, he's saying the Anti-Market people and the Monopolists need to get out of the way.
And he's right. So, what are you for? "Capitalism"? 'Fraid not, because that embraces competition. Which currently doesn't exist in any meaningful way, and they seek to KEEP it that way.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: How convenient said by KrK : said by hailinfantry :for the mayor to say that due capitalist process should "get out of our way." No, he's saying the Anti-Market people and the Monopolists need to get out of the way. And he's right. So, what are you for? "Capitalism"? 'Fraid not, because that embraces competition. Which currently doesn't exist in any meaningful way, and they seek to KEEP it that way. Not sure how a socialist broadband provider with tax-free bonds for funding that allows them to undercut any capitalist free-market competition fosters capitalism.
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Bizarro I Love You | |
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2Much
@cox.net
| I understand the desire to run your own fiber to each house, but there may be too much competition for each network to support themselves. Both Bell and Cox's network (physical plant) and support structure (field techs/operators/electricity cost etc.) are designed with a required number of customers to support itself. When you throw in a new fiber plant, a WISP, a satellite provider, and internet over your cell phone then the customers get divided pretty thin. So thin that some of these are not going to make it. (P.S. Bell and Cox are not going anywhere, they have more money than this little town and too much already invested.) Then that leaves a dark fiber network, waste of taxpayer's money, political suicide for whoever supported it, and several upset ex-customers.
/flame suit on...
I know that nobody will support me on this, but it is the government that should get out of the way of the Bells and let them build and KEEP TO THEMSELVES a fiber network. The line sharing situation makes the Bells shy to the idea of investing billions of dollars into a network that resellers can pick and choose the high dollar customers and stick Bell with the sour grape customers. Those high dollar customers are what supported the network when the sour grapes didn't pay their bills.
/flame suit still on 'cause I have a feeling it's going to get ugly in here. | |
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| Jeep07
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Mount Carmel, TN
| Re: Too much competition If a Muni runs fiber do they have to line share? I would love for a muni to invest in the network then go and use the fiber for "Fair" competition. I think it should only go both ways. We had a muni build a network just up the road (30 min drive) and they have been competing with Charter Comm and the telco big time.. They built a really nice network and offer some nice services. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Too much competition The Cable company doesn't have to share. The Telco isn't sharing it's fiber, either. Why should the Muni?
Not that I'm against sharing, but if the Muni is going to share, then all should have to share.
Actually if I was setting this up I'd look forward to allowing private companies to offer services over the network, for fixed access fees.
Think of the economic boon to such a future-thinking area.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | Jeep07
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Mount Carmel, TN | Re: Too much competition I agree with fixed fee for private companies offering services. I would love to see that. | |
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flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA | Unless BS (bellsouth or Bullsh*t??) is willing to pull fibre in Lafayette now, then they should get out of the way.
RBOC broadband is the biggest bit of Vapourware since the new ducknukem.
anyway this clowns 2 cents worth | |
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gaboy
Premium
join:2003-02-13
31728
clubs:
| Re: RBOC broadband is vaporware Here is my own story about competition
When I first moved in 96 I became the one and only person to take advantage of the phone company's dsl line for 69.99
a month for 750 down and 100 up
4 years later the cable company started offering broadband for 49.99 for 1024 down and 512 up. Consequently my phone company lowered their price 44.99 and upped my speed.
2 years later the city runs it's own service for 29.99 (which I did switch to)1024 down and up. The city also offers a plan 20.99 that 256 down and 128 up while this is not enough for speed for most users here it is perfectly adequate for users who simply want e-mail and some general surfing and at the same price as dial up.
Of course the telco and other cable company have reduced prices and increased services to keep up and now I pay the city 24.99 and get speed of 1400-1900 down and around 600 up.
I LOVE COMPETITION | |
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| Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA
| In the last issue of Telephony magazine, BellSouth is on record that they think deploying fiber is too risky, and that they bet that upgraded DSL(24 mgbs) will be fast enough.....by 2009! Jim said BellSouth paid for another study that said households would need 24-100 mgbs for household use.....by 2006!
The bottom line is the same, if we don't do it, it is not going to get done. | |
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| ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA
| said by flushls :Unless BS (bellsouth or Bullsh*t??) is willing to pull fibre in Lafayette now, then they should get out of the way. RBOC broadband is the biggest bit of Vapourware since the new ducknukem. anyway this clowns 2 cents worth This is misleading. No one has claimed 100% market penetration of broadband. No one. And broadband IS in Lafayette, and so is Bellsouth broadband. Maybe you should tell all those ADSL users in Lafayette to cancel their broadband service to backup your post. LOL | |
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| | flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA
| Re: RBOC broadband is vaporware BS may have some DSL in Lafayette. I do not know last time I was in L.L. It was in 1983 I was drunk and I got the clap from some chick. (I think she was hot .....)
Anyway if the city is willing to fork up the capital and the constituents vote for it the do it if they vote it down then go too plan b. | |
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spie34
Hmm
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Boise, ID
| The government wants to let people have competition yet they have all these rules in effect to actually allow monopolies though they say they aren't. But I say yes there is when you have 2 decisions. choice 1 100 dollars choice 2 99.99.
I hope the bells and cox lose this battle. | |
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MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | If the bells would offer competitive services and be proactive with FTTP, this would not be a concern for them. They need to have some competition! Only then will we have reasonable prices and speed. | |
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wuduck
join:2004-05-19
Decatur, TN | THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO COMPETE WITH ANY BUSINESS! | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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Unregistered user
@clients.speedfactory
| Re: new tactic? That's actually a very interesting idea. To be fair, they'd have to treat all the various utilities equally, but they could tell them all to prepare to remove their lines, and they'd have to bargain with individual landowners for the right to cross their property at whatever price the landowner sets. | |
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Da22in
Buck Fush
join:2002-06-10
Charlotte, NC
clubs:
| Re: new tactic? said by Unregistered user:
..and they'd have to bargain with individual landowners for the right to cross their property at whatever price the landowner sets.
Sure they'll be nice and haggle a bit. But there's a long-standing policy called "eminent domain" in this country, which basically allows government to take your property to build a highway, lay utilities, or whatever. Nothing you can do.
Generally an agreement is reached between landowner and gov't, but an agreement is by no means necessary.
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Your computer and monitor are killing you with EMF...fight back with a Himalayan salt lamp. | |
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Lion7
join:2003-05-08
Here
| I, as many others, are so sick of the excessive excuses
and SLOW progress from Cable companies and the Bells.
I also REALLY hope this starts a trend within other cities
in the US. This would be great competition for the Cable companies and the Bells. Both companies have been milking old outdated technology for years. If they get burned in the future from cities following the trend it will be there own fault due to greed.
!!!!! GO Lafayette !!!!!
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Subnetting Sucks! | |
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NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
| its funny how thay say that Lafayette is trying to make there "monopoly" but at the same time ain't the bells and the cable co's doin the same by blocking the competition from getting in the game becuse thay dont want to lay fiber there yet i think Lafayette should keep on fighting becuse if thay lose thay show us that Money Realy talks and not the end user in the end i allso think most towns should look into this Fios and othere fiber networks are dragging there feet all over maybe this will speed them up some becuse i dont want to Waite tell 2015 to get fiber in my town becuse the bells and cable co's cant deliver but yet thay want to block everythang that can better the local network and make end users happy thay want to 0wn us plain and simple allso
The DMCA sucks its like this case Big Money Making thangs and laws thay want | |
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squeakyg
join:2000-09-26
Pompano Beach, FL
| This article speaks for itself. Every time I call BellSouth I give their employees a mouthful for no less than 15min just for the hell of it.
You should hear some of them trying to defend their company. Damn I wish I had employees like that! | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA
| So just what has BellSouth and Cox Communications done to address the digital divide? Nothing that is without marketing value. And NOTHING in the Lafayette community. Affordable bandwidth is a critical step. Of course there is much more too it - but its a starting point. Tell me what the major telcoms have done in your community to get the have nots wired. | |
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Derch
Premium
join:2004-10-16
Tulsa, OK | Re: Digital Divide So far I can't think of one positive note to defend the telcoms. I hope Cox and Bellsouth don't screw up your in city fiber deal. | |
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| ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA
| Re: Cost Stop thinking in terms of 'data'. Its a pipe, and in this day and age 'data' can be anything from your usual data, or it can telephony, or it can be broadcast content (IPTV), etc.
If Lafayette was smart they would recognize this and offer a triple-slam package and really tick off Bellsouth and Cox. | |
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| | Fiber2home
join:2004-12-30
Lafayette, LA | Re: Cost They are doing the triple play and have promised to be 15-20% cheaper than Cox and BellSouth. | |
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bchoate8
join:2004-02-17
Logan, UT
| If you've been following municipal fiber projects you will know that this exact scenario has been played out dozens of times before. The ending varies, but the cause is always the same: The monopolies want to protect their monopolies. It makes perfect business sense, but it's not in the best interest of our nation. Qwest sponsored a bill in the Utah legislature that was aimed straight at killing the utopia project, which is a fiber network connecting (thus far) 13 cities across the state. The project is open to any city that wishes to join. The main difference between utopia and other municipal projects is that utopia would only provide the network, and not actually offer any services on it. Qwest didn't kill the project, only set it back a little, and dissuaded 3 (of the original 16) cities to exit the project.
Most opponents of the project have listed objections similar to those I've seen here (i.e. the government shouldn't be competing with businesses etc) however, those don't quite apply in this instance. You can think of the network like an airport, or the road system. It just doesn't make sense for a bunch of businesses to build all their own roads and then sell service to everybody, nor does it make sense to build multiple airports in the same city (obviously some large cities are an exception to that). The government does have a role in shared infrastructure. The telecom industry has proved that the current model does not lead to lower prices and innovation. Japan has shown us what competition in the telecom industry can do: they have 100/100mbps fiber access for prices similar to our current cable and DSL services. You can use the argument that Japan has a much higher population density, but New York is not that much less dense than Tokyo, and I don't see any 100 megabit services there...
Anyway, sorry for the rant, carry on.:) | |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| As I've posted before, municipal fiber networks foster competition by reducing the cost of entry into voice, video, and data. It can also reduce the costs of the bells and cable cos if they're willing to jump on board, making them more efficient, too. All this leads to lower price and higher bandwidth for the consumer and business within the towns with enough foresight to have a network to which everyone has access.
It's not a matter of putting cable companies or telcos out of business, it's about bringing meaningful competition to medium and smaller sized cities, which have none in the last mile. Has the removal of the duopoly injured the wireless industry? | |
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BellSouth Vs. Lafayette Fiber
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