 
TSI Gabe
Network Kung Fu
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON | The only true way to block piracy Is to cut the cable. Which obviously defeats the point of having access to the Internet. | |
|  | Lineage
join:2006-10-19
USA | Re: The only true way to block piracy You can't stop it that way. There's always SneakerNet(TM) | |
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maartena
Nice'n Round.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by TSI Gabe  :Is to cut the cable. Which obviously defeats the point of having access to the Internet. You may be too young to remember.... or too old that you passed it  - But in the early nineties, when the CD burner was invented, but the internet wasn't quite there yet.... spreading stuff around on "warez CD's" in schools, offices, etc was immensely popular.
Since a single CD-R cost something like $5 by then, and burning one on 1x or 2x speed took 30 or 60 minutes, people were often selling these CD's, full of the latest apps and games, for like $10.
Paper lists used to go around, what each release of a CD contained. Often the CD's and its contents were released by known release groups, some of which are still known today, complete with cracks, etc. Often, games were "ripped" so that the videos were taken out, which reduced the game size significantly.
These kind of distributions were very popular in 90ties, but slowly died out after 2002 or so, with the rise of broadband, and the low price of a CD Burner and CD Discs. Disc copies were still made of course, but people just started copying individual games and software packages. By then, a game release contained a FULL CD, sometimes more then one.
If the Internet were re-designed in such a way that would make piracy impossible.... I will guarantee you that CD/DVD release mechanisms and illegal trade in schools and offices will leap and take off.
It can't be stopped. We used to copy cassette tapes in the 80ties, my parents even had one of those big spool machines and could copy music by connecting it to another one, and we're talking the 60ties here..... | |
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dadkins
Go For It
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: The only true way to block piracy Reel to Reel...
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
September 24th, @12:10PM
| Re: The only true way to block piracy said by dadkins :Reel to Reel... Doh! Thats what happens when I post before coffee, the spell checker does not question homonyms as long as they are spelled right. | |
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maartena
Nice'n Round.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: The only true way to block piracy said by djrobx :Good times, good times. The internet wasn't there, but dialup BBSes were. Access to pirated content was granted on a sort of invite/code word system. You generally had to politely ask a sysop for "elite" access, and/or be referred to by another member with access. There were usually up/down ratios that you had to maintain. That's where most of the software on those CDs came from. Yup, I remember those. I had access to a few of them.... my parents would be mad because I was tying up the house phone line, and increasing the phone bill as local calls were not toll-free where I lived.
Nowadays.... I walk around with a 4 Gb USB flash drive on my key chain, always carry it in my pocket. Very handy | |
| | | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: The only true way to block piracy said by maartena :said by djrobx :Good times, good times. The internet wasn't there, but dialup BBSes were. Access to pirated content was granted on a sort of invite/code word system. You generally had to politely ask a sysop for "elite" access, and/or be referred to by another member with access. There were usually up/down ratios that you had to maintain. That's where most of the software on those CDs came from. Yup, I remember those. I had access to a few of them.... my parents would be mad because I was tying up the house phone line, and increasing the phone bill as local calls were not toll-free where I lived. Nowadays.... I walk around with a 4 Gb USB flash drive on my key chain, always carry it in my pocket. Very handy Ah the memories of downloading 10 zipped floppy images at 9600 baud...
Then getting that 28.8 modem and say WOW it will only take 5 hours now! | |
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TSI Gabe
Network Kung Fu
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON | Oh I'm old enough to remember the days of sharing files over BBS | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: The only true way to block piracy Yeah, I ran a FidoNET bbs, had 3 lines 1200bps, but we had email (netmail) way back when. Everything got shared, it was the culture..... it's where all this originated.. SHARING
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | IRC and privet FTP was also big in the 90s
^.~ | |
| | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: The only true way to block piracy said by elios :IRC and privet FTP was also big in the 90s ^.~ Don't for get Usenet | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Sneakernet is the Orignal P2P network and its impossible to stop. unless the RIAA gets this country to the point cops make sure we have a sales slip for every bit of media we carry.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| judges aren't technologists well, what do you expect when a judge makes a ruling based on his knowledge of technology
Although most people familiar with the technical hurdles recognized that this was a massive if not impossible task, the judge in the case ruled that ISPs are indeed capable of blocking infringing content and gave Scarlet six months to comply.
in addition to his lack of technical knowledge, he probably also believed whatever crap the copyright group told him (you know, those groups that insist DRM "enhances" the customer experience). | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
|  Sure thing
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
join:2006-03-01 | Re: Sure thing Actually, as simple as it sounds, I think you're absolutely right. Its not really about checking to make sure "piracy" is being filtered (because it is indeed impossible), its simply having a mechanism in place which purports to do so. | |
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hawk82
join:2001-04-26
Oakland, ME | 2,500 Euros doesn't seem like much of a fine I wonder if Scarlet makes more money per day than that, so they can afford to pay the fine and keep happy customers vs. keep messing with the network and annoying customers till they leave. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| Re: 2,500 Euros doesn't seem like much of a fine said by hawk82 :I wonder if Scarlet makes more money per day than that, so they can afford to pay the fine and keep happy customers vs. keep messing with the network and annoying customers till they leave. Whatever the ISPs profit margins are, $3,681/day is nothing to sneeze at. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by hawk82 :I wonder if Scarlet makes more money per day than that, so they can afford to pay the fine and keep happy customers vs. keep messing with the network and annoying customers till they leave. It isn't much of a fine. They could raise their rates 1 euro a month and easily cover all the fines.
From their web site:
For the full-year 2007, Scarlet is estimated to record revenues of approximately ¤ 125 million and an operating income before depreciation, amortisation and non-recurring items of at least ¤ 18.5 million. So the fine is 2500 euros a day * 365 days = 912,500 euros
So that comes to .73% of their revenue and
4.9% of their profits.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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maartena
Nice'n Round.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| It is impossible..... In this case, the judge ordered to filter out "pirated content", but allow legal traffic using the same protocol. And that is simply impossible. You can't block an illegal torrent, and at the same time still allow linux torrents to pass through.
Either way, blocking piracy in general is impossible. I don't know how old many of you were, but I was in a test case in the Netherlands for cable internet, back in 1996 when the technology was just launched. This was pre-P2P programs, and we simply shared our "stuff" by having personal FTP servers, and allowing friends to log on, grab stuff, and spread it. We had FTP servers on obscure ports so that the ISP wouldn't find them, and it wasn't uncommon to have 30 FTP sites in your bookmarks from all the friends you made on the local IRC channel. And this was 12 years ago.
Around the same time, the "warez cd" was really popular. CD Burners just got in the "affordable" range, and for roughly $10 one could buy a CD from colleagues, classmates, and other friends, filled with releases from known release groups. Those CD's would contain 10, 15 of the latests games (which were no more then 30, 50 Mb a piece back then), applications, etc.
P2P slowly took over, as it was much easier just to search on the internet and download what you needed. But with these days of cheap DVD burning, even IF ISP's succesfully manage to weed out P2P, Piracy will simply continue using physical media.
What the industry should do is adjust to the current situation instead of trying to fight it. iTunes has been a HUGE success, and similar online shops could be setup for TV series, movies, etc. As long as you keep it affordable, say $5 for a TV episode, $10 for a DVD length movie, it will probably be a success. But the industry wants to make more money and does not want TV episodes to leak to other countries where they haven't aired yet.
The next move in Piracy? Go completely encrypted. It has already proven its success in trying to circumvent throttling by ISP's on torrent files, because the packet headers can't be inspected. And blocking packets that can't be inspected is impossible, as that would stop people from doing online banking, or even ordering something online with a credit card, as that traffic is encrypted and secured, let alone having a VPN link to your work, using SSH, etc.
Piracy cannot be stopped. Period. Not even by dissolving the entire internet.
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Obama 2008 - Because McCain is more of the same! | |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: It is impossible..... said by maartena :judge ordered to filter out "pirated content", but allow legal traffic using the same protocol. And that is simply impossible. Since in effect "everything" is copyrighted there is no way for a third party to: 1) unambiguously identify the specific work, 2) verify with copyright owner what rights they have chosen to reserve to themselves, and 3) verify if there are additional restrictions in force due to contractual obligations between seller and buyer (shrink wrapped software licenses come to mind).
If content industry spent half as much time trying to figure out how to exploit low cost distribution created by the Internet as they do trying to roll back technology their bottom line would be much improved.
/tom | |
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mrchris
America the pitiful
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
edit:
September 24th, @11:09AM
| Atop that
Resistance is futile |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
·Mediacom
| Re: Atop that said by mrchris :People can make menial modifications to MP3s by adding comments in fields to totally change the CRC while others can simply pack in a dummy text file to their RAR or ZIP files to do the same. even just putting a password on a rar/zip will keep filters out
and on top of that multipart rars would get around that too | |
| deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA
·Cox HSI
edit:
September 24th, @11:26AM
| No Surprise Filtering is the type of technology that can be used to slow down unwanted activity some but it will never be the way to completely stop the unwanted activity no matter what method they use.
It's futile. The impossible dream of the Entertainment Industry/Big Content/RIAA/MPAA/etc... I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for these guys since they oh-so-obviously JUST DON'T GET IT!  They obviously have an unusually large fleet of Fail Boats.
You can only laugh so long about something before it just gets sad I suppose. | |
| | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
edit:
September 24th, @11:58AM
| Re: No Surprise said by deadzoned :It's futile. The impossible dream of the Entertainment Industry/Big Content/RIAA/MPAA/etc... I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for these guys since they oh-so-obviously JUST DON'T GET IT! They obviously have an unusually large fleet of Fail Boats. I wouldn't laugh too loud/intensely about the Epic Fail fleet. One way or the other, the *AAs will pay off contribute enough campaign dollars to the whores in Congress politicians to make proof of copyright infrigement so vague, that alleged infringers will be on par with narcotics traffickers sentenced to life in prison without parole.
The U.S. is in the process of passing the PRO-IP Act , which is essentially a secret pact Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement treaty being negotiated to step up cross-border enforcement of copyright and piracy laws.
ACTA could include an agreement for the US, Canada, the European Commission and other nations to enforce each others' IP laws, with residents of each country subject to criminal charges when violating the IP laws of another country, according to a supposed ACTA discussion paper. | |
| | | deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA
·Cox HSI
| Re: No Surprise I hear ya SS! I have read up on that some and it would suck pretty hard for sure if it were passed. If this is passed, I expect that it will face some pretty overwhelming backlash which may end up getting it rolled back. At least I hope, anything can happen.
The bottom line is that even with their most glorious PRO-IP Act, the Entertainment Industry will still fail to stop piracy. Sadly, this is their most cherished of fail-boats, the stop piracy completely one. | |
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LazyAnon
@comcast.net | Thankfully the White House has said that if the IP Enforcement Bill passes, they will veto it. (S.3325) | |
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SparemetheBS
@comcast.net
thumbs down from:
Doctor Four
| They'd find a way if they could make money from it These fools are just stone walling. Sooner or later they will get a clue when they get fined a few million Euro. | |
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mrchris
America the pitiful
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: They'd find a way if they could make money from it As are you, anonymous coward known as Taylor Troll. Always defending the greedy fat cat **AAs, why don't YOU get a clue?
»recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | want piracy filters? fine then the media agencies should pay the ISPs the price of adding and maintaing the equipment.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| wispalord
join:2007-09-20
House Springs, MO | Learn To SHARE all that needs to happen is people should learn to share, omg i was tought that when i was a kid! | |
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Belgian ISP: Filtering Piracy 'Impossible'
It happens to us all.
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